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Keven. Just. Keven posted:I feel like if you put honest hearts off that long you're probably immune to poison. Also there's nothing in there worth doing at that point anyways. There's nothing in Honest Hearts worth getting anyway. I only really play it for the scenery / to feed what's left of my youthful assburgers.
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Dec 31, 2014 11:07
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Malpais Legate posted:I've ranted and raved at long ends about how Fallout 3 is just wrong in general, as a Fallout game and as just a post-apocalyptic setting. Having never played the old Fallouts I can't really comment, but I thought it had some interesting ideas as far as a Washington setting goes. It lets you take American ideals to an extreme, warping the national iconography and correlating them with the extremist "values" of the Enclave. I like the greenness: green is the colour of home and the colour of the Almighty Dollar, but in the game it's a very unnatural (stylised) nuclear green that gets everywhere... though perhaps I'm reading too much into that. I think it has some mileage because (having never been to Washington myself so apologies in advance if this seems off) Washington is at once the embodiment of America and a real relic stuck in the past, like much of the Fallout quirkiness. You have memorials, old-styled town houses, testimonies to great ideas... but it all crumbled away under the weight of what it became. I think my key problem there though is that again it doesn't do quite enough with it to get to that point. I don't think the Enclave or the Brotherhood are very well-explained (again, without having played the early games) so it's easy to lose that thread, and while we get some neat visuals like the Lincoln statue without a head or the irony of Arlington Cemetery having some of the only remaining good plant life, there's not much in the way of development beyond that. In fact, that stuff in general feels kind of tacked onto the main story of you and your dad. It leaped out at me when Li says that "it isn't right" that the Enclave have Project Purity, but at that point I'm asking why. She then tells you not to trust the Brotherhood (who operate out of the Pentagon, I loved it when I put two-and-two together and found that out) either, but (at least in the Broken Steel quests) you then have no option to join up with them. Feels a bit dry.
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Dec 31, 2014 12:25
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Yeah I'll jump in and defend Fallout 3 as a decent open world game, at least as far as atmosphere and world building go. New Vegas is still loads better overall but Fallout 3's world is not the bad part about the game.
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Dec 31, 2014 15:12
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I just started playing Fallout 3 again through A Tale of Two Wastelands, and the dialogue is... yeesh. The running around is still fun at least, but I think I'm gonna refrain from actually talking to anybody until I get to the Mojave.
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Dec 31, 2014 16:54
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I just started playing Fallout 3 again through A Tale of Two Wastelands, and the dialogue is... yeesh. The running around is still fun at least, but I think I'm gonna refrain from actually talking to anybody until I get to the Mojave. Yeah. All other complaints about the game aside, my major complaint about it will always boil down to really stilted dialogue, and a paper-thin story that, at its base, is basically just a cut and paste of Fallout 1 and 2 elements that got smashed together. Some of the sidequests were fun, and I did like the overall story/feel of Point Lookout, as well as the Pitt, but by and large, eesh. So far as the BoS and the Enclave seeming kind of amorphous, well. To get any sense of context for either of them, you really had to remember the original two games to get any sense of who they were, and even then, in game, they were pretty much someone's fanfic interpretations of both factions. I don't mind the idea of a BoS chapter going rogue, but the whole 'steel be with you' and the addition of a young Maxson speaking in silly parables and metaphors gave me a serious case of second hand embarrassment for the writing team.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:08
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Mierenneuker posted:I remember Arcade's and Dean Domino's dialogue files having frequent notes. Also, whenever a character pronounces Caesar as kaizar. They pronounce it as 'Caesar'. It has the classical hard 'c', presumably because it wouldn't make sense for a Rome reboot to be using ecclesiastical pronunciation. Same reason they use the English 'w' sound for the letter 'v' (eg. when they say "Ave."). 
Seashell Salesman fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 19:01
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Seashell Salesman posted:They pronounce it as 'Caesar'. It has the classical hard 'c', presumably because it wouldn't make sense for a Rome reboot to be using ecclesiastical pronunciation. Same reason they use the English 'w' sound for the letter 'v' (eg. when they say "Ave."). Yep. I actually took a year of Latin, so I'm impressed that the developers insisted on the distinction. It serves a pretty good story purpose, as someone using the "proper" pronunciation immediately stands out as either a member of the Legion or someone unusually educated. I think there's at least one dialogue option (with Arcade when you first meet him?) where you can comment on the pronunciation being the same as how the Legion does it.
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Dec 31, 2014 19:16
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Old Boot posted:Yeah. All other complaints about the game aside, my major complaint about it will always boil down to really stilted dialogue, and a paper-thin story that, at its base, is basically just a cut and paste of Fallout 1 and 2 elements that got smashed together. Some of the sidequests were fun, and I did like the overall story/feel of Point Lookout, as well as the Pitt, but by and large, eesh. When I first played FO3 I was thrown fora loop at the BoS being basically good-guy superhero types or whatever. I wish more had been done with the Outcasts themselves (other than Operation: Anchorage, which sucked.) I think what probably tints my viewpoint on FO3 the most, though, was Lucy's Blood Ties quest. I remember it being literally the first quest I did in my very first playthrough, and it basically ends with her not giving the slightest care about the fate of her brother or family. Even if you tell her that her parents are dead in the middle of the quest, once you actually complete the mission all she has to say is that she pretty much forgot about the whole thing. And that was a poor omen for the writing for the rest of the game.
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Dec 31, 2014 19:16
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Having never played the old Fallouts I can't really comment, but I thought it had some interesting ideas as far as a Washington setting goes. It lets you take American ideals to an extreme, warping the national iconography and correlating them with the extremist "values" of the Enclave. I like the greenness: green is the colour of home and the colour of the Almighty Dollar, but in the game it's a very unnatural (stylised) nuclear green that gets everywhere... though perhaps I'm reading too much into that. I think it has some mileage because (having never been to Washington myself so apologies in advance if this seems off) Washington is at once the embodiment of America and a real relic stuck in the past, like much of the Fallout quirkiness. You have memorials, old-styled town houses, testimonies to great ideas... but it all crumbled away under the weight of what it became. Especially the White House, which instead of being a dungeon or tinpot strongman's base, or the center of the Enclave's efforts to 'retake' America where the final boss lurks...is just a forgotten radioactive crater that even the Super Mutants leave alone.
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Dec 31, 2014 19:31
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Garrand posted:When I first played FO3 I was thrown fora loop at the BoS being basically good-guy superhero types or whatever. I wish more had been done with the Outcasts themselves (other than Operation: Anchorage, which sucked.) Yeah. There was a lot they could've done with the Outcasts that just fell flat overall. Really, it's so underused that I honestly had to wonder why the hell they were there, save to provide some buttpats to the old players who'd raise an eyebrow at Good Guy BoS dudes, and add flavor text to the region. If you can call it 'flavor,' anyway. As for Blood Ties, holy poo poo. Vampires? Really? To make matters worse, I don't know that they could have possibly made the front man for that stupid little "faction" sound any more like he got teleported in from Elder Scrolls games. What got me even more than Lucy's 'oh well huh okay' response, too, was that if you kill the ~family~ after freeing Ian, the entire town of Arefu turns hostile for no goddamn reason. Don't get me wrong, the game did have some bright spots, and the gameplay was legitimately fun, but the Bethesda writers clearly have a better grasp on the fantasy genre than they do on anything remotely modern.
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Dec 31, 2014 19:54
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Unsurprisingly, many of the same issues FO3 has are the same ones that pop up in the elder scrolls
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Dec 31, 2014 20:05
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Old Boot posted:What got me even more than Lucy's 'oh well huh okay' response, too, was that if you kill the ~family~ after freeing Ian, the entire town of Arefu turns hostile for no goddamn reason. All I can figure is that at that point you've persuaded the family to ally with Arefu and there's some kind of internal alliance trigger that trips before you actually go arrange it with Arefu, so killing the family at that point turns Arefu hostile because you're killing their allies. I guess.
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Dec 31, 2014 20:29
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Having never played the old Fallouts I can't really comment, but I thought it had some interesting ideas as far as a Washington setting goes. It lets you take American ideals to an extreme, warping the national iconography and correlating them with the extremist "values" of the Enclave. I like the greenness: green is the colour of home and the colour of the Almighty Dollar, but in the game it's a very unnatural (stylised) nuclear green that gets everywhere... though perhaps I'm reading too much into that. I think it has some mileage because (having never been to Washington myself so apologies in advance if this seems off) Washington is at once the embodiment of America and a real relic stuck in the past, like much of the Fallout quirkiness. You have memorials, old-styled town houses, testimonies to great ideas... but it all crumbled away under the weight of what it became. Don't get me wrong, I really did enjoy seeing the symbols of America in crumbles. The Washington monument being half-skeleton and Lincoln losing his head? Beautiful. If only it could've kept these motifs in the narrative of the story, rather than backdrop. The big problem I had with the Capital Wasteland, was that everyone seemed to treat the Great War as if it had happened about a week and a half ago. You had characters acting like they'd lived through it and were veterans of America, when it's been literally two centuries since the bombs fell. There's a bunch of just frayed wires of setting; Moriarty is acting like he just hitched a ride over from Ireland to set up his tavern in Megaton. The kids of Little Lamplight are acting like they've never seen an adult before. Even with the assumption that Big Town sends their children to Little Lamplight, it just doesn't hold up. Vault 101 was even more unbelievable: nobody noticed this Doctor and his child that just showed up 20 years before the game started? 101 wasn't very big to begin with and just got smaller til FO3 started. In regards to being part of the Fallout series, it just wrecks it. The Brotherhood of Steel actually being white-and-shiny knights instead of isolationist assholes felt inherently wrong. The super mutants, which are going extinct, got hamfisted in on the opposite coast of the United States with the biggest "WELL ACTUALLY" I've ever seen in a game. Deathclaws and super mutants are just stapled on because "that's what makes it fallout right?" There was no like, original building to it. The Capital Wasteland was just a bunch of tacked-on old fallout things instead of building another region of the same setting. This is the opposite side of a massive swath of land that 1 & 2 took place on, of course things would be incredibly different. They purposely removed Fallout 3 from the traditional Fallout setting on the west coast, and then did nothing but half-rear end the ideas. The last thing that got me was how poor the moral choice system was implemented. The extent of your motives for choosing the "evil" path is BECAUSE I CAN. You're given an opportunity to blow up Megaton in the first five minutes of leaving the Vault, and the only thing you're offered to liberally murder everyone you just met is like, a thousand caps. Furthermore, later in the game during Project Purity, you're given the opportunity to poison the entire water supply of the Wasteland. This makes it lethal to literally everyone living there, including YOU. You have NO reason to do this, other than LOL BECAUSE I CAN. Black-and-white moral choice is never good storytelling, but in this case, it was comical. I could honestly go on for hours about how poorly defined Fallout 3's setting and tone are and how New Vegas definitely captures the Fallout series a lot better, but it's probably been talked to death already. Malpais Legate fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 20:30
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actually the best part of FO3 was that it gave the Washington Monument a steel skeleton (it doesn't have one) and then watching other games clearly steal directly from FO3 and also get it wrong.
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Dec 31, 2014 20:39
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To make Fallout 3 work you basically have to assume that things were literally so radioactive and destroyed that they didn't even start having a semblance of civilization until very recently, which makes sense because the BoS didn't arrive until about twenty years ago with James, but then wait why is the Maxson kid only like ten years old then goddammit I literally uncovered a new plothole in the middle of trying to defend Fallout 3
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Dec 31, 2014 21:03
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Fallout 3 is basically the theme park version of Fallout. Looking back it wasn't as good as people claimed it to be, but it did help revive a dead franchise and give us the framework in which New Vegas would be built upon. I had fun running around the Capital Wasteland at least, which honestly I think is the better environment to explore and do stuff in, but New Vegas is just a better game overall. I probably barely reached 100 hours in Fallout 3, in New Vegas, I'm close to 400.
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Dec 31, 2014 21:04
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Malpais Legate posted:The big problem I had with the Capital Wasteland, was that everyone seemed to treat the Great War as if it had happened about a week and a half ago. You had characters acting like they'd lived through it and were veterans of America, when it's been literally two centuries since the bombs fell. There's a bunch of just frayed wires of setting; Moriarty is acting like he just hitched a ride over from Ireland to set up his tavern in Megaton. The kids of Little Lamplight are acting like they've never seen an adult before. Even with the assumption that Big Town sends their children to Little Lamplight, it just doesn't hold up. Vault 101 was even more unbelievable: nobody noticed this Doctor and his child that just showed up 20 years before the game started? 101 wasn't very big to begin with and just got smaller til FO3 started. Apparently this is literally what happened. I can't recall the original source, but supposedly Fallout 3 was originally meant to be a prequel taking place immediately after the Great War. At some point it was changed to take place after the original games, which hosed up continuity.
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Dec 31, 2014 21:08
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It would make so much more sense in a lot of areas if it were set in like 2080. What a shame it's set in like, 2280.
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Dec 31, 2014 21:30
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Malpais Legate posted:It would make so much more sense in a lot of areas if it were set in like 2080. What a shame it's set in like, 2280. 2277
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Dec 31, 2014 21:33
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Bethesda has some kind of rule that every game they make in a series has to move the timeline forward, I have no idea why, though it might make sense to have that rule for something like Elder Scrolls where there's a wall full of history books in every house and they want to avoid contradictions (well, more contradictions). And since one random throwaway line in the Old World Blues epilogue puts the Fallout timeline at 10,000 AD I'm looking forward to Fallout 4 taking place in 10,002 AD 
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Dec 31, 2014 21:43
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Garrand posted:2277 Oh, so it's literally 200 years after the bombs dropped. I never bothered learning the date in Fallout 3.
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Dec 31, 2014 21:46
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Malpais Legate posted:Oh, so it's literally 200 years after the bombs dropped. I never bothered learning the date in Fallout 3. Well, it does give you the full date every time you hit the wait button. Wolfsheim posted:Bethesda has some kind of rule that every game they make in a series has to move the timeline forward, I have no idea why, though it might make sense to have that rule for something like Elder Scrolls where there's a wall full of history books in every house and they want to avoid contradictions (well, more contradictions). Wait, what line is that?
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Dec 31, 2014 21:51
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I just picked up Fallout 3 & New Vegas on Steam sale (PRAISE GABEN), so it looks like I have a lotta reading to catch up on...
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Dec 31, 2014 22:05
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Garrand posted:Wait, what line is that? If you complete it to the best possible ending, Blind Diode Jefferson uses all of his sonic upgrades to defend the Big Empty from a sonic attack or something in 2910. And yeah, it does. I just couldn't be assed to look too hard beyond the hour of the day.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:06
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Malpais Legate posted:If you complete it to the best possible ending, Blind Diode Jefferson uses all of his sonic upgrades to defend the Big Empty from a sonic attack or something in 2910. I remember that line but....that's not exactly 10,000 AD. Although it would be funny to see Bethesda try and shoehorn the fallout universe into the year 2915
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Dec 31, 2014 22:14
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Malpais Legate posted:Oh, so it's literally 200 years after the bombs dropped. I never bothered learning the date in Fallout 3. It's one of the other changes Bethesda made. Every other major Fallout game takes place in a year that ends with a 1, so each game is an even number of decades apart. Fallout 3 shakes this up by making it exactly 200 years after the Great War. New Vegas goes back to the standby by setting it in 2281.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:19
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Even if it was one year after da bombs dropped there'd still be no reason for super mutants, ghouls being fast zombies, the brotherhood of steel being there / being dungeons and dragons paladins, the enclave being there etc.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:25
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:Even if it was one year after da bombs dropped there'd still be no reason for super mutants, ghouls being fast zombies, the brotherhood of steel being there / being dungeons and dragons paladins, the enclave being there etc. I can kind of understand the Enclave having hold-outs throughout the US, or at least another major base (Chicago is referenced a few times) as I think there is some wiggle room in regards to there being outposts here and there, but after getting their asses whupped at the oil rig, being able to mount an offense with a ridiculous number of ~pure human~ troops without recruiting ~tainted waster humans~ is a just a little over the top. Just a little. EDIT: And admittedly I could see them vying to take control of the nation's capital as a point of pride. It could've worked, but, well, see above on the the impressive amount of wasted potential that went into this game.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:38
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For me, the beginning of New Vegas soured it quite a bit in comparison. It felt very linear and railroaded, and left me feeling plenty powerful enough pretty quickly. For me 3 definitely did the survival and scavenging thing a lot better, which is the whole point of he post nuclear war setting for me.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:55
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MooCowlian posted:For me, the beginning of New Vegas soured it quite a bit in comparison. It felt very linear and railroaded, and left me feeling plenty powerful enough pretty quickly. For me 3 definitely did the survival and scavenging thing a lot better, which is the whole point of he post nuclear war setting for me. I justify this, in that it's been 200 years. People started settling and developing civilization again over a hundred years before New Vegas began. The true "scarcity" phase of Fallout isn't as strong because civilization and states are rising again. People in the Mojave are probably a lot better off in 2281 they were back in the original Fallout.
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Dec 31, 2014 23:06
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Fallout's actually never really had a big "scavenging survivor future" thing until Fallout 3, which was basically a canon fuckup. From the very first game, towns are being formed and growing to decent sizes. There's only a few derelict settlements and locations to pick through, and major cities like LA are still intact enough to have civilization forming in them. Fallout 2 even depicts San Francisco as the equivalent of a modern day large town in terms of population and size. Then Fallout 3 turned an immediate post-war setting into a "really 200 years later" setting and tried to juxtapose the East Coast being almost totally demolished and irradiated into uselessness with the NCR having already formed into a legitimate nation nearly to pre-war standards by the same time frame. New Vegas only continues this because it had to use the same resources as the game that popularized the franchise to the current generation, and thus had to keep up the feel that Fallout 3 started.
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Dec 31, 2014 23:14
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Old Boot posted:Yeah. All other complaints about the game aside, my major complaint about it will always boil down to really stilted dialogue, and a paper-thin story that, at its base, is basically just a cut and paste of Fallout 1 and 2 elements that got smashed together. Some of the sidequests were fun, and I did like the overall story/feel of Point Lookout, as well as the Pitt, but by and large, eesh. Malpais Legate posted:I justify this, in that it's been 200 years. People started settling and developing civilization again over a hundred years before New Vegas began. The true "scarcity" phase of Fallout isn't as strong because civilization and states are rising again. People in the Mojave are probably a lot better off in 2281 they were back in the original Fallout. Though I never really did hate the Shiny White Knight BOS in FO3, I mean at least they showed/told you that they are a splinter group that goes against a lot of the ideals of the normal Brotherhood.
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Jan 1, 2015 01:52
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Fallout 3 is a game where you have to lie to your dad in order to not expose that the plot makes him out to be unthinking and unconcerned with your well-being by the ramifications of his actions.
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Jan 1, 2015 03:05
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Wolfsheim posted:To make Fallout 3 work you basically have to assume that things were literally so radioactive and destroyed that they didn't even start having a semblance of civilization until very recently That is literally what happened. Megaton is the oldest city, and at most it's only from the 2210s. Rivet City was founded in 2239, the BoS arrived in the Pentagon in 2255, and Canterbury Commons gathered in 2258. Tenpenny Tower is the youngest major settlement, barely 20 years old.
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Jan 1, 2015 05:29
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That would make it hard to explain why the Chinese Remnant Army didn't make their own tinpot states in the Capital Wasteland for 200 years and counting
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Jan 1, 2015 05:33
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:That would make it hard to explain why the Chinese Remnant Army didn't make their own tinpot states in the Capital Wasteland for 200 years and counting Yeah, really, when you consider what 'literally happened,' there's too many things that don't stack up in terms of the timeline. achillesforever6 posted:Its the black and white writing that kills Fallout 3 for me in terms of enjoying, just the writing is so wretched. And then you have Bethesda attempt to write a morally grey story and they gently caress up pretty good because every time I play the Pitt I side with Ashur. Oh my god, the morality calls in the game are flat-out pants-on-head retarded. I was trying to avoid talking about the karma system, which both games totally gently caress up on numerous levels. I liked the karma system in Fallout 1 and 2, where the reasoning for the rating was more ambiguous (and is more or less negligible unless you're a slaver or something), and at least made sense in terms of how people responded to you. In FO3 and F:NV, I was completely done with it. That you have to honest to god eat 400 bodies to equal the karma loss of stealing just 20 tin cans is pretty absurd (thank brief unemployment for the ability to actually test that theory). Never mind that any karma and/or faction screw-up is simulcast to everyone, everywhere, no matter how sneaky you happened to be. At least with FO1/2, it was based largely on individual towns, with some occasional cross-over. And you're not the only one who ended up siding with Ashur, even if it was a difficult choice to make. One of the only times I felt like a choice I made was legitimately ambiguous, and could see the possible consequences of both decisions pretty clearly, without the game shoving it down my throat. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 07:15
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:That would make it hard to explain why the Chinese Remnant Army didn't make their own tinpot states in the Capital Wasteland for 200 years and counting Why do you think Chinese Spec Ops books and assault rifles are scattered across the Wasteland?
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Jan 1, 2015 07:32
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Ashur is the correct choice because he has a cool penthouse and all the slaver shops and named NPCs in the urban treetop city stick around. Also because they don't actually go through with the whole infanticide thing either way it would make sense to keep the baby in a clean sterile environment rather than a dirty decrepit shack.Garrand posted:I remember that line but....that's not exactly 10,000 AD. Although it would be funny to see Bethesda try and shoehorn the fallout universe into the year 2915 I was pretty close, give or take 9,700 years 
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Jan 1, 2015 07:34
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Malpais Legate posted:If you complete it to the best possible ending, Blind Diode Jefferson uses all of his sonic upgrades to defend the Big Empty from a sonic attack or something in 2910. If you didn't hear about it... ...good.
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Jan 1, 2015 07:36
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I'm still waiting for us to get a pre-war game.
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Jan 1, 2015 07:40
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