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Even the mighty have to fall~
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Jan 3, 2015 18:16
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There's a Groupon right now for 2-seater rides in the faux-DW12 at IMS: http://www.groupon.com/deals/indy-racing-experience-23 $250 almost doesn't sound too outrageous, I just wish I weren't taller than the height restriction.
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Jan 4, 2015 19:53
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I wish they gave you more laps...drat that was like..the literal greatest moment of my life right there. (so far, that is).
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Jan 4, 2015 20:02
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I'm holding out to do the drive experience.
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Jan 4, 2015 20:11
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FuzzySkinner posted:I wish they gave you more laps...drat that was like..the literal greatest moment of my life right there. (so far, that is). Well, if you weren't me in 1993 and thus lucky enough to win what ended up being two laps riding shotgun in a pace car with Lloyd Ruby at the wheel...  Watching him decide he was tired of following Rutherford around at highway speeds as we came out of 4 the first time was pretty much The Best.
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Jan 4, 2015 20:52
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Someone asked in the NFL thread if "Indianapolis was known for anything?" ... Jesus christ IndyCar, this shouldn't even be a loving question. poo poo has to change. devmd01 posted:I'm holding out to do the drive experience. I want to do that at Mid Ohio one day.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:48
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FuzzySkinner posted:Someone asked in the NFL thread if "Indianapolis was known for anything?" meth i think
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Jan 4, 2015 22:07
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there's a wicked cool short track there IIRC
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Jan 4, 2015 22:09
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VikingSkull posted:there's a wicked cool short track there IIRC IRP owns. gret posted:FUTG! Forever and ever. Full Collapse fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 22:10
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Minto Took posted:IRP owns. That it does, that it does. The Busch Series races there were always mint. e: I see that IMSA raced there for a race at the road course...I'm annoyed because I want to find footage/proof of that.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:12
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FuzzySkinner posted:Someone asked in the NFL thread if "Indianapolis was known for anything?" FUTG!
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Jan 4, 2015 22:20
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gret posted:FUTG! 
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Jan 4, 2015 22:25
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Those are some Prime Memes
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Jan 4, 2015 22:30
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Tony George was retarded and the Indy Racing League sucked.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:34
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Alain Post posted:Tony George was retarded and the Indy Racing League sucked. I still believe that the guy could have done some great things with the sport had he not had the mindset of attempting to "Hate gently caress" CART out of existence. An entire series dedicate to allowing smaller teams entrance into the sport, oval based and with the ability to get drivers people like Viking would cheer for? Great idea (in theory). Hell I'd love it if THAT'S what would happened, and we'd have an AL V. NL type rivalry that comes to a head each month in may. The 25/8 rule, lovely Dallara/G-Force death trap cars and USAC officiating? gently caress off.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:45
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placing blame on TG alone is dumb, the amount of stupidity around the split was plentiful and can be spread around don't be greedy
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Jan 4, 2015 22:47
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VikingSkull posted:placing blame on TG alone is dumb, the amount of stupidity around the split was plentiful and can be spread around Oh absolutely. The CART owners should have never done the US 500 in the first place. I'd have showed up to Walt Disney World, Phoenix, and Indy...then just tried to take every place in the starting field away from IRL drivers as possible. I guess Roger had a deal in place with the guy to have had CART cars pretty much guaranteed to be in the show...and the CART owners didn't want to do it. Some weird form of pride they all had. loving stupid.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:50
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Alain Post posted:Tony George was retarded and the Indy Racing League sucked.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:11
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The IRL's problem was that it did not have enough ovals.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:12
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FuzzySkinner posted:An entire series dedicate to allowing smaller teams entrance into the sport, oval based and with the ability to get drivers people like Viking would cheer for? Great idea (in theory). Hell I'd love it if THAT'S what would happened, and we'd have an AL V. NL type rivalry that comes to a head each month in may. That concept would've been interesting but I don't think it would've been viable any longer than CART vs IRL was already. You still run into the core problem of fighting for attention on every non-Indy race, and I'd wager some shenanigans would've occurred where if one side wanted to gently caress the other, they'd try to do something like start Indy practice a week earlier while the other is elsewhere. It was still an epically stupid decision for TG to try to go without the stars, and an equally stupid decision by CART to think that no matter how good / how strong CART was in 1992-1995, that they could ever dream of surviving without the 500. Finished reading Beast yesterday - definitely recommend it to anyone in here.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:56
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http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/112161-indycar-2018-by-mark-dill Viking's pen name is apparently Mark Dill. IOwnCalculus posted:It was still an epically stupid decision for TG to try to go without the stars, and an equally stupid decision by CART to think that no matter how good / how strong CART was in 1992-1995, that they could ever dream of surviving without the 500. Sport hosed up and just really handed every thing to NASCAR on a silver platter. This isn't to say that NASCAR wasn't going to grow to the point that it eventually did. It was really well on it's way at that point, but inviting them into your own backyard, and then destroying your own event in the process? Goddamn, you couldn't have made it more easier for them to take control of the direction of auto racing in the US.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:54
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FuzzySkinner posted:http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/112161-indycar-2018-by-mark-dill What's wrong with front engined no aero roadsters? I'd watch the gently caress out of that series.
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Jan 5, 2015 15:17
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I'd watch it too but if you're really trying to appeal to people who think Indy was better before 1964, you're literally playing to a market that is just about dead. You're now offering even less differentiation between you and NASCAR and it's just another step into literally becoming part of their ladder. Banning aero is also never going to happen. Literally, you can do it but you won't actually do it. We live in an age of CFD, so unless you literally regulate every loving nut, bolt, suspension wishbone, and side profile, someone is going to figure out a way to make a wingless car still generate downforce (or at least, less lift). Banning wind-tunnels is laughable and will just push the bar more towards whoever can get more time on a server farm. I also don't see this significantly lowering the cost to enter. If we're not going to go backwards in terms of safety - then we're still going to have a CF tub for the drivers, yes? This is not going to magically become a car that can be built in some house's garage two blocks from 16th and Georgetown. It's also predicated upon some insistence that if only these cars were more like dirt track cars, it would get more good drivers, but I just don't think that's the case. There's already more qualified drivers who want to race in Indycar, than there are seats in Indycar for them.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:49
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Yeah, as much as it was stupid to deliberately not use windtunnels for the early Marussia/Virgin F1 cars they still designed a car quicker than a DW12 round real road circuits without using one. It certainly wouldn't reduce costs. And wouldn't dramatically change the shape of anything.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:59
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IOwnCalculus posted:I'd watch it too but if you're really trying to appeal to people who think Indy was better before 1964, you're literally playing to a market that is just about dead. Playing to a market that is just about dead is better than playing to no market at all. edit: I don't think Indycar even attracts new viewers it's just die hards who haven't died yet. Peanut President fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 17:19
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Like I've said earlier, I don't really give a gently caress anymore. I watch the ovals if I can, I still love the 500, but if the series and the fans want to continue down the same road, more power to you guys. It's no longer a series I have a vested interest in. I could care less if it dies and stock cars take over May, I really don't. It's not like I expect apologies if that happens, anyway. Though I will say I've noticed an upswell of people pointing to a lack of ovals in recent months. Like the article says, the racing is always good just about, and after a decade of that they should have something to show for it. They don't. e- The hilarious counter argument that this is catered to old men is false, also. Sprint car crowds are packed with kids, they all have a favorite driver. Make a national, televised series where those kids can follow their favorite driver on up, what happens, those kids suddenly stop caring? I was TWELVE when I became a Stewart fan, and I followed him into the IRL, then NASCAR. Someone please tell me that I'm the exception. Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 17:32
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Dudley posted:Yeah, as much as it was stupid to deliberately not use windtunnels for the early Marussia/Virgin F1 cars they still designed a car quicker than a DW12 round real road circuits without using one. It certainly wouldn't reduce costs. And wouldn't dramatically change the shape of anything. Oh it'd certainly change the shape compared to the DW12 if you come out and make a rule that says "no wings" but then you're going to get all sorts of wings that don't look like wings. You're also still going to have the same "problem" where all the cars look similar because we are so far down the road of solving the problems that racecars encounter, where they're all going to look about the same. Funny enough, to me most of the Watson/Offys look just about the same anyway... Peanut President posted:edit: I don't think Indycar even attracts new viewers it's just die hards who haven't died yet. This is probably true.  VikingSkull posted:Though I will say I've noticed an upswell of people pointing to a lack of ovals in recent months. Like the article says, the racing is always good just about, and after a decade of that they should have something to show for it. On the first part - then where are the crowds? I love Indycars on ovals, I wish they ran more ovals, I would go to more ovals if I could at all justify it... but outside of Indianapolis the ovals get absolutely nobody to show up. The racing has been better than any Game 7 moment NASCAR can manufacture, and even they're cutting seat counts to I don't think changing the car is going to change that, either. On the second part - to clarify a bit, the kids at the short tracks watching people sliding sprint cars on dirt don't think Indy was better before 1964. They probably have no loving clue about Indy at all, and yeah that's a real problem. I'm not saying I know what's going to fix Indycar, or that it isn't horribly broken - I just don't think that shitcanning what little the series does have going for it is a good idea. The road course events do draw significant crowds, and going to a non-aero open-wheeler could really present a major problem if only from the standpoint of the "top tier" series now being slower around the track than some of the sports cars.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:58
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VikingSkull posted:e- The hilarious counter argument that this is catered to old men is false, also. Sprint car crowds are packed with kids, they all have a favorite driver. Make a national, televised series where those kids can follow their favorite driver on up, what happens, those kids suddenly stop caring? I was TWELVE when I became a Stewart fan, and I followed him into the IRL, then NASCAR. Someone please tell me that I'm the exception. kids go to sprint car races because they are preposterously loud cars driving sideways like 20 feet away from you and spraying mud in your face. they are the racing equivalent of michael bay films. it's awesome but it's also literally impossible for indycar to replicate that awesomeness, not that they would want to, because presumably they also want to market to adults. so yes, the fact that you followed stewart all the IRL and NASCAR does make you the exception. i was at those same races, dude.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:50
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IOwnCalculus posted:On the first part - then where are the crowds? I love Indycars on ovals, I wish they ran more ovals, I would go to more ovals if I could at all justify it... but outside of Indianapolis the ovals get absolutely nobody to show up. The racing has been better than any Game 7 moment NASCAR can manufacture, and even they're cutting seat counts to If I go to my local short track as an oval fan, I can keep up to date on the series because they run at other ovals. If I'm an oval fan that watches NASCAR, I can go to Pocono and then watch the series because almost the rest of the series is ovals.... and then they have me on the hook for the random road races they have, because I'm vested in the series. If I'm an oval fan, why would I spend money to go watch Indycars at Pocono if I know that almost the rest of the season is at a road or street course? That's 3 or 4 more local races I can attend for the same money, and personally, that's what I do. I've said it a poo poo ton, but most of us aren't average fans, we all watch just about all racing. The fact is, oval racing outdraws road racing in this country by a long shot. There's various reasons for this, but it's the undeniable truth. No amount of talking about how good the racing has been is gonna change that or convert oval fans. On the NASCAR attendance thing, I think people forget just how many corporations bought huge blocks of tickets back in the early 2000's. Now, NASCAR has lost fans, sure, but the bigger problem with ticket sales is the artificial inflation imposed by corporate entities disappearing in the last 10 years. quote:On the second part - to clarify a bit, the kids at the short tracks watching people sliding sprint cars on dirt don't think Indy was better before 1964. They probably have no loving clue about Indy at all, and yeah that's a real problem. That's the part I disagree with about that article. I'm not proposing a return to roadsters (though, like pnut, I'd watch the poo poo out of that), but let's not act like they can't change the cars. Common tub, single element front and rear wings, wider, softer tires that fall off, no undertray aero, no sidepod aero, open engine rules. Also, if someone wants to run a front engine car using the common tub, let them! Bring the design element back to Indy, and allow a path for small teams who wish to use stock blocks or other cost cutting measures a way to at least attempt the 500. Cut down on the reliance on aero, removing costly wind tunnel time, and you increase car counts. Increased car counts, diversity in car styles, and more ovals (ideally a 60/40 mix favoring ovals) and you'll get the fans back.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:50
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I just don't buy the anti-furriners/technology argument. I also don't believe that most people were turned off of that as a lot of people mention. My dad's an Indiana native, yet his eyes grew wide when he saw the Turbine car and the Chaperel Ground Effects car at the Speedway museum. I went to practices/races as a kid and I really didn't seem to care where the drivers were from, but I was more so amazed at the sounds of the engines and how "futuristic" the cars looked. It would be amazing to see more "Dirt Track" talent at this level, I don't think I'd want to see the sport go backwards just to accomplish that. IOwnCalculus posted:On the first part - then where are the crowds? I love Indycars on ovals, I wish they ran more ovals, I would go to more ovals if I could at all justify it... but outside of Indianapolis the ovals get absolutely nobody to show up. The racing has been better than any Game 7 moment NASCAR can manufacture, and even they're cutting seat counts to Well and that's the problem. I don't the powers that be are not going to ovals out of spite. Rather..I think it's more so related to what you just mentioned. And as you mentioned towards the end? Visibility PERIOD is a problem. When people are no longer associating "Indianapolis" with "Racing"....that's a BIG problem. The sport needs to find better ways to promote itself.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:51
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VikingSkull posted:Common tub, single element front and rear wings, wider, softer tires that fall off, no undertray aero, no sidepod aero, open engine rules. f1 2009
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Jan 5, 2015 18:52
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be nice wicka posted:f1 2009 well we don't want Indy to emulate F1, now do we
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Jan 5, 2015 18:58
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Peanut President posted:edit: I don't think Indycar even attracts new viewers it's just die hards who haven't died yet. Once again give me one year, this year, and I will do my best to fix this problem. Let's just say my solution involves another similar thing that many of us are a part of... 
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Jan 5, 2015 19:12
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VikingSkull posted:well we don't want Indy to emulate F1, now do we it used to be a hell of a lot more like f1 than it is now
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Jan 5, 2015 19:19
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be nice wicka posted:it used to be a hell of a lot more like f1 than it is now yeah it used to be popular lol
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Jan 5, 2015 19:20
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Universally, if someone wants to tell you their homercar master plan for 'fixing' IndyCar, it's gonna be bad + dumb
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Jan 5, 2015 19:28
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it's really just a marketing problem. if you watch indycar and think "man this racing sucks" then you just think racing in general sucks.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:33
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You can't market something the consumer doesn't want. The average American race fan doesn't want open wheel road racing. It's not like F1 has made any headway into the market, either.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:37
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VikingSkull posted:The average American race fan doesn't want open wheel road racing. Let's just boil down this argument a bit. You may say that, but I just get the vibe that there are indeed a lot of race fans out there, but they simply have not been reached properly. My friends for example? Watched Petit Le Mans with me along with Formula 1. They were impressed with how the cars looked, and overall the skill it took to drive on some of those road courses. ...They were not truly aware either of those even existed until I was watching it with them on a couch while drinking one night. On the flipside? They make fun of NASCAR and consider it a joke. They don't find the racing interesting, and they don't even remotely relate to anything that's apart of that element. NASCAR is the only auto racing in the states that get's any sort of coverage. There's a lot of people who just tune out of it because they don't like the product. Sure there's a lot of people that watch it (even I on occasion), but it's not a "growing" demographic by any stretch of the imagination. I think the reason people don't watch the Indy 500 is simply because they don't know it's on TV.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:47
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VikingSkull posted:You can't market something the consumer doesn't want. The average American race fan doesn't want open wheel road racing. do you think that might be because most F1 races are on at 8am or between 2-5am huh do you think that might influence viewership
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Jan 5, 2015 19:49
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