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surely a couple day old backup won't have the same vulnerability that allowed this one to be compromised because reasons moderately surprised at them having a backup though
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Jan 6, 2015 00:22
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text editor posted:"Bitstamp customers can rest assured that their bitcoins held with us as prior to temporary suspension of services on January 5th (at 9am UTC) are completely safe and will be honored in full. so this will end up with bitstamp promising to return 50% of the coins, after which they'll mysteriously fold and vanish, while being hailed as heroes by the bitcoiners for being good sports and giving half the coins back
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Jan 6, 2015 00:22
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5 million bucks down the drain
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Jan 6, 2015 00:32
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Does anyone believe that bitstamp have a spare $6 million dollars ?
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Jan 6, 2015 00:32
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jre posted:Does anyone believe that bitstamp have a spare $6 million dollars ? obviously fraction banking is the root of all evil, and any respectable bitcoin establishment will have every deposit secured by full cash backing two times over
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Jan 6, 2015 00:34
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jre posted:Does anyone believe that bitstamp have a spare $6 million dollars ? It's one of the few ventures that are actually profitable.
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Jan 6, 2015 00:52
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here are the stolen coins https://blockchain.info/address/1L2JsXHPMYuAa9ugvHGLwkdstCPUDemNCf i'm betting nothing was stolen, they just accidentally sent the coins into a black hole.
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Jan 6, 2015 00:54
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duTrieux. posted:nice try, aspiring money-launderer Trap sprung I guess It seems like the public ledger would be a huge obstacle to good money laundering. I thought the cornerstone of money laundering was lying about self reported stuff that was impossible or impractical to verify. With running a mining operation you could claim to have more hashing power than you really do to disguise earnings but there would be no trail of you generating and selling those freshly mined coins so it would be a pretty poor laundering system. Maybe there is something I'm missing.
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Jan 6, 2015 00:54
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Powershift posted:here are the stolen coins
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Jan 6, 2015 00:58
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CampingCarl posted:Well there are transactions still going to it after they closed down deposits so probably not. Having someone hack Bitstamp just before they go to CES is almost as good though. It is confirmed. other people received coins from bitsamp in the same transactions that sent coins to this wallet(what nice hackers), and people have followed their deposits that never made it to the site into this wallet. This wasn't a hack, this wasn't a theft, this was somebody making a spelling error or something, and bitstamp sending coins into a wallet they don't have a key for.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:01
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Boxturret posted:im the opai the plural of opium because of silk road, see
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Jan 6, 2015 01:05
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Erenthal posted:obviously why would you back a glorious anarchist cryptocurrency with fascist fiat currency??
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Jan 6, 2015 01:07
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Powershift posted:It is confirmed. other people received coins from bitsamp in the same transactions that sent coins to this wallet(what nice hackers), and people have followed their deposits that never made it to the site into this wallet. Could still be a hacker.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:14
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Dren posted:Trap sprung I guess here's my general understanding of the money laundering idea. it's a bit like that story about the casino where wealthy chinese businessmen can buy tens of thousands of dollars worth of chips with yuan, play a few low-stakes poker games with a tiny fraction to fake that they are there to gamble. then they cash out the chips as dollars, perhaps through a proxy they slip the chips to. should anyone from the chinese gov't investigate, they say they went on a crazy gambling bender and lost a ton of money. the way it works with bitcoin mining operations would be that people seeking to sneak money out of china (or another country with currency controls) set up a mining farm, and mine as efficiently they can with what they have at hand. if it's at a small loss, that's okay. the less rube goldbergian method would be to buy bitcoins on an exchange, but that's not a valid option if the country is starting to crack down on bitcoin exchanges or even just monitor those transactions for suspicious transactions. as they are almost certainly mining with a pool, it's obfuscated a bit where the coins go in terms of the blockchain. then they cash out those bitcoins in a country they want their money in. [insert bag of stolen amazon gift cards or aml/kyc regulations ruining any shot at cashing out here] idk how well this works for the kinds of money that would justify creative money laundering, since it seems like selling $1 million at once is enough to freak the market out sometimes.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:16
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also i really hope its a black hole address, and then /r/bitcoin dogma becomes that bitstamp made bitcoin more scarce and everyone should be thankful for this gift. anyone who gripes about losing money will be declared a statist shill traitor to the cause.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:18
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Powershift posted:It is confirmed. other people received coins from bitsamp in the same transactions that sent coins to this wallet(what nice hackers), and people have followed their deposits that never made it to the site into this wallet. can't the hackers leave the wallet's normal operations in place while also transferring out? actually these are weirdly irregular amounts and a large amount of transactions.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:21
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Dren posted:Trap sprung I guess yea brut coins still create a paper trail. do people really just dump 50k on mining rigs, report it as a loss but really have secret worthless money instead? I always felt like vending machines would be a perfect way to launder money, but I'm stupid.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:24
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TVarmy posted:also i really hope its a black hole address, and then /r/bitcoin dogma becomes that bitstamp made bitcoin more scarce and everyone should be thankful for this gift. your remaining bitcoin is more valuable so you haven't really lost anything what, you don't have any remaining bitcoin? we can fix that! /u/changetip 1 peanut shell
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Jan 6, 2015 01:25
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quote:[–]sqrt7744 2 points 16 minutes ago*
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Jan 6, 2015 01:30
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BrettRobb posted:yea brut coins still create a paper trail. do people really just dump 50k on mining rigs, report it as a loss but really have secret worthless money instead? the point would be that the people paying for them can get out of the country and already have the money waiting, not to escape being charged with crimes while still in china. it's not really about laundering the money, you're simply moving the money out and not caring about how dirty it is
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Jan 6, 2015 01:37
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i wonder if that guy knows this guy http://pastebin.com/6Gc1Zh2g
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Jan 6, 2015 01:38
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yeah the vc won't have any problem handing over a truckload of unmarked bills to some random dude
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Jan 6, 2015 01:44
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Powershift posted:i wonder if that guy knows this guy  Surely a 419 level fake ?
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Jan 6, 2015 01:46
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TVarmy posted:here's my general understanding of the money laundering idea. it's a bit like that story about the casino where wealthy chinese businessmen can buy tens of thousands of dollars worth of chips with yuan, play a few low-stakes poker games with a tiny fraction to fake that they are there to gamble. then they cash out the chips as dollars, perhaps through a proxy they slip the chips to. should anyone from the chinese gov't investigate, they say they went on a crazy gambling bender and lost a ton of money. That's a valid scenario where some Chinese business has legit capital they want to expatriate. Buy miners, mine coins even at a loss, cash out via proxy in another country. Every step is legal except that last one I guess. And even then I guess it's risky because the blockchain could be used to track down where the money goes if anyone knew the block reward address being used. I was talking about laundering ill gotten gains where the aim is to conceal the source of the funds. The launderer wouldn't want to, for example, spend any of the actualmoney on power or infrastructure costs associated with the mining because they'd have to account for where they got the actualmoney in the first place.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:47
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have they started throwing pennies at the cash or does it need to move to at least one other address before the train rooftop protocol is enacted?
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Jan 6, 2015 01:49
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Verdafolio posted:can't the hackers leave the wallet's normal operations in place while also transferring out?
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Jan 6, 2015 01:53
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Nintendo Kid posted:0.8 originally made the maximum block size larger than 1 megabyte, which would be needed for any sort of high transaction rate going over 7 per second. also that 7 per second transaction rate only works if everyone using bitcoins is sending them from 1 address to 1 address, no sending the remainder off to a change address, no combining multiple address bitcoin balances to make the needed amount. you have to have exact change+miner's fee in a single address and send it off for that to work. you can set up your exact change addresses in transactions outside of peak hours in preparation of busy times i guess but in the standard usage without setting up exact change addresses prior to use, it works out to be more like 3.3 transactions/second right now.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:57
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http://thisisactuallygoodnews.com/?s=http://www.coindesk.com/bitstamp-claims-roughly-19000-btc-lost-hot-wallet-hack/
FCKGW fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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Jan 6, 2015 02:05
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fermun posted:also that 7 per second transaction rate only works if everyone using bitcoins is sending them from 1 address to 1 address, no sending the remainder off to a change address, no combining multiple address bitcoin balances to make the needed amount. you have to have exact change+miner's fee in a single address and send it off for that to work. you can set up your exact change addresses in transactions outside of peak hours in preparation of busy times i guess but in the standard usage without setting up exact change addresses prior to use, it works out to be more like 3.3 transactions/second right now. Also. Even if they could saturate the network at 7 per second 24 hours a day, the electricity cost alone for the miners would still be 80 cents per transaction. With the current revenue that won't let most miners break even, it would be about $2.25 per transaction. No fees
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Jan 6, 2015 02:09
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marc andreessen is literally like half the reason i'm afraid to cut off all my hair
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Jan 6, 2015 02:19
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why would the electricity cost per transaction be constant, that makes no sense whatsoever. the size of the thing being hashed repeatedly is independent of the number of transactions.
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Jan 6, 2015 02:19
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FCKGW posted:http://thisisactuallygoodnews.com/?s=http://www.coindesk.com/bitstamp-claims-roughly-19000-btc-lost-hot-wallet-hack/ lmao
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Jan 6, 2015 02:20
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vOv posted:why would the electricity cost per transaction be constant, that makes no sense whatsoever. the size of the thing being hashed repeatedly is independent of the number of transactions. He's assuming the current hashing cost was distributed over the maximum number of transactions for the minimum possible fee.
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Jan 6, 2015 02:40
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evilweasel posted:He's assuming the current hashing cost was distributed over the maximum number of transactions for the minimum possible fee. i still dgi
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Jan 6, 2015 02:47
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vOv posted:i still dgi they actually pay a lot more than that per transaction, he's granting them the best case
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Jan 6, 2015 02:49
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vOv posted:i still dgi Best case scenario the microtransaction currency of the future costs minimum 80 cents in fees per sub 1c tip
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Jan 6, 2015 02:52
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i remember once where i lost all my savings by paying for a hotdog and not checking the "don't give remaining balace to payment processor" box
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Jan 6, 2015 02:55
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oh wait is that assuming the block reward is 0? yeah the current fees are totally unsustainable in that model
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Jan 6, 2015 03:00
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vOv posted:oh wait is that assuming the block reward is 0? yeah the current fees are totally unsustainable in that model right the entire system is entirely unsustainable
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Jan 6, 2015 03:05
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the idea is that bitcoin is promoted as a super-efficient low-friction payment network. for a while, microtransactions were proposed as a use. but the fact is that buttcoiners are spending a lot of money to mine/confirm those transactions, and the amount of transactions in a block is limited (under the most ideal conditions, ~7 per second or 4200 every ten minutes). most of the money for that electricity comes from the protocol's block rewards. but those rewards are scheduled to dry up. while the protocol would allow the block size limit to be removed, miners hate that idea and even today are starting to be conservative about adding transactions to blocks, since large blocks take longer to propagate across the network, increasing the chance someone else would find a block and it'd propagate quicker, losing the first pool their reward. these aren't exact numbers, since bitcoin is effectively a lottery and there are a lot of variables (price of electricity, price to cool the machines, efficiency of machine vs. current difficulty, number of transactions), but the ballpark figures say bitcoin's network is expensive as gently caress but the cost per transaction is hidden through inflation. miners sell the newly minted coins, rubes buy those coins, and if there's more miners try to pay for their cargo cult datacenters than rubes, you see downward pressure on the price that makes mining less profitable. blockchain.info has a fun chart that shows how much money is going to miners (block reward plus tx fees) divided by number of transactions actually getting sent. that revenue's gone down due to the crashing price, but one blessed day in january, miners were getting $90 per transaction. right now, it's more like $10. and yet miners get incredibly tiny profits if they get a profit at all. https://blockchain.info/charts/cost-per-transaction
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Jan 6, 2015 03:07
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