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Ataru13
Jul 28, 2005

...Packing Space-Age Shit!

Ojo posted:

It's interesting how most of the theories here seem to assume Grisha really is Eren's biological father. How do we know Eren's mum didn't sleep with someone in the Reiss family and get pregnant? Grisha could hve even encouraged this in order to have access to someone with royal family DNA who he had some degree of control over.

Frieda could have somehow known about the affair (she did know about Historia, after all) and that's why Eren saw her at the very beginning of the series.

God drat, what the gently caress is with goons and cucking?

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thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007

Ataru13 posted:

God drat, what the gently caress is with goons and cucking?

This is a weird generalization to make in response to a totally plausible theory.

This is already a comic that has multiple characters doing horrible, extreme things because they think they're necessary. This wouldn't really be outside of the realm of that.

thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Dec 10, 2014

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


Nelson Mandingo posted:

As the official page is out, I'm gonna not bother with spoiler tags.

As said last page, if the power was Reiss-only then Grisha wouldn't have stolen it and told Eren the key to salvation is in the basement. After all he knew where their hideout was and presumably their role in the walled world. He probably knew about that rule as well. The Titan-shifters wouldn't be frantically trying to steal it either. Reiss is lying, misinformed, or there is a way around it. My guess is it's a lie to keep people like Kenny from trying to steal it.
If it's a lie, then why did Grisha feed himself to Eren?

Of course, considering the extramural faction is interested in the power, we can assume that they've got a way to utilize it. Perhaps they've got a rebel branch of the Reiss family out there? All of history might be a lie, given the memory manipulation powers, so literally anything could be out there.

If Grisha knew ~secrets~ he probably learned them from outside the wall, rather than from the royalty. So it's not a stretch to think that he managed to get, perhaps, a baby or something from that group.

I dunno, that sounds kind of silly. But if the bloodline thing is true and Grisha couldn't use the power and Eren can, one of three things must also be true- Eren was adopted, Eren's mother was from a special bloodline even if Grisha wasn't, or Grisha got cucked to save humanity.

nib
Aug 23, 2011
My bet's on Eren being the uncle's illegitimate son or maaaybe grandson. Of course Frieda would know about him if she inherited his memories.

Flying Squirrel
Oct 24, 2007
Thanks, Zombie Lincoln
Talk about taking Oral Histories to a whole new level, yeesh

Ataru13
Jul 28, 2005

...Packing Space-Age Shit!

thexerox123 posted:

This is a weird generalization to make in response to a totally plausible theory.

This is already a comic that has multiple characters doing horrible, extreme things because they think they're necessary. This wouldn't really be outside of the realm of that.

It was a joke :ssh:

Brightman
Feb 24, 2005

I've seen fun you people wouldn't believe.
Tiki torches on fire off the summit of Kilauea.
I watched disco balls glitter in the dark near the Brandenburg Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like crowds in rain.

Time to sleep.
Well okay, given Historia, it's plausible that Eren is also a Reiss kid due to sleeping around and such.

Although, thinking about it didn't Grisha use the memory altering ability on Eren? I initially thought it was the injection that did all that, but the injection was to turn him into a titan. So maybe Grisha got ate just as a way to hide the abilities once he realized he missed papa Reiss in his murder rampage.

Not sure if those abilities and knowledge are mutually exclusive though, maybe he and Eren can use the memory wipe, but not poo poo like wall building or knowing what happened in the past.

Honestly we have enough plausible theories floating around that if some of them aren't right, at least even partially, it'll be fairly surprising. I'd like to think we've gotten better about paying attention to foreshadowing and such since it's come up so much before.

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

Brightman posted:

Although, thinking about it didn't Grisha use the memory altering ability on Eren? I initially thought it was the injection that did all that, but the injection was to turn him into a titan.
Nah memory loss seems to happen to everyone who shifts the first few times.

Sub Harrison
May 2, 2013

Ataru13 posted:

God drat, what the gently caress is with goons and cucking?

ugh please don't start. Can we let this word die?

Brightman
Feb 24, 2005

I've seen fun you people wouldn't believe.
Tiki torches on fire off the summit of Kilauea.
I watched disco balls glitter in the dark near the Brandenburg Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like crowds in rain.

Time to sleep.

Jackard posted:

Nah memory loss seems to happen to everyone who shifts the first few times.

But there was all that poo poo about remembering about getting back to the basement when he looked at the key. I dunno, you're probably right.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Darth Walrus posted:

Well, I'm much more comfortable about Zackly's scat fetish now I know it's an officially-condoned pastime for the brave intelligence officers of the good ol' US of A. :patriot:

Holy poo poo.

Isayama knew.

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

Fister Roboto posted:

Holy poo poo.

Isayama knew.

Makes perfect sense that he would, this is a manga where everything revolves around two large objects that hit two separate structures

sharktamer
Oct 30, 2011

Shark tamer ridiculous
I was thinking this lately, when's the last time a non-flashback titan even appeared? Seems like there hasn't been one for months and months and it's great.

Terper
Jun 26, 2012


sharktamer posted:

I was thinking this lately, when's the last time a non-flashback titan even appeared? Seems like there hasn't been one for months and months and it's great.

Well, in the most technical of terms, we saw Bert and Reiner a couple chapters ago... though that was just a lie. So technically not a flashback!

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 273 days!

sharktamer posted:

I was thinking this lately, when's the last time a non-flashback titan even appeared? Seems like there hasn't been one for months and months and it's great.

Well, at the end of the chapter before this, Eren seemed to be transforming in the present due to the pain of remembering eating his dad. This seems to have been taken back, but it would be awesome if he managed to do something right for once. Also the look on Reiss' face would be priceless.

this allusion meant
Apr 9, 2006

Eiba posted:

If it's a lie, then why did Grisha feed himself to Eren?

Of course, considering the extramural faction is interested in the power, we can assume that they've got a way to utilize it. Perhaps they've got a rebel branch of the Reiss family out there? All of history might be a lie, given the memory manipulation powers, so literally anything could be out there.

If Grisha knew ~secrets~ he probably learned them from outside the wall, rather than from the royalty. So it's not a stretch to think that he managed to get, perhaps, a baby or something from that group.

I dunno, that sounds kind of silly. But if the bloodline thing is true and Grisha couldn't use the power and Eren can, one of three things must also be true- Eren was adopted, Eren's mother was from a special bloodline even if Grisha wasn't, or Grisha got cucked to save humanity.
Grisha asks Eren why he wants to go outside before deciding to tell him there's something that'll interest him in the basement. His answer interests him. It's not clear what he would have done if the answer had been less interesting, or if Eren were less... Eren. Possibly he was to give the coordinate to the outsiders (I don't see many other ways to interpret the timing), and instead chose a hope for a greater future for the people inside the walls than the effects of losing the coordinate to the outsiders would have yielded. It seems highly unlikely he would have committed to feeding Eren the power if he had turned out to be uninterested in knowing the truth or carrying forth the sacrifices of those before, given how unlikely to survive or do anything interesting with it he would have been. There's something about the power that prevents most people from using it, and something about the royal line that lets them use it. Eren clearly is able to use some of the interesting parts. There are plenty of explanations for what the distinguishing characteristics that allow for Eren and the royal line to use the power, but not most people. It's difficult to read the past few chapters without drawing an impression that the old king's power and the nobility's ability to resist it are metaphors in some way for the right to rule, and that something relating to Eren's sense of purpose is what makes him a viable contender. Pretty much the most consistent theme of the story so far is that those who have the courage and vision to appreciate the value of sacrifice for the greater good of a society have the right to disobey, rebel against, and potentially rule over those who do not. If it turned out to actually affirm the necessity of rule from birthright it would be a pretty weird direction to go.

Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009

Hodgepodge posted:

Well, at the end of the chapter before this, Eren seemed to be transforming in the present due to the pain of remembering eating his dad. This seems to have been taken back, but it would be awesome if he managed to do something right for once. Also the look on Reiss' face would be priceless.

For once?
Eren has: rescued everyone from the central building when it was surrounded by titans, saved mikasa when she had given up on life, plugged that hole in the wall, made annie bert and reiner stop and rethink their invasion which saved hundred of thousands of lives, was central in taking down annie, and killed a bunch of crazy church assholes by punching a titan on top of them

It's not his fault that Bert did a flying elbow off the top rope or that the scumbag merchant betrayed him

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


this allusion meant posted:

It seems highly unlikely he would have committed to feeding Eren the power if he had turned out to be uninterested in knowing the truth or carrying forth the sacrifices of those before, given how unlikely to survive or do anything interesting with it he would have been. There's something about the power that prevents most people from using it, and something about the royal line that lets them use it.
Random poorly thought out theory vaguely inspired by this: Perhaps part of the power to change people's feelings has been in play the whole time, and perhaps it discourages any interest in the world outside the walls. This would mean that people who do then express interest in the world outside are, for whatever reason, immune to the mind control. Perhaps it just randomly happens in some people with 'strong wills' or whatever.

Furthermore, suppose whatever makes one insusceptible to mental influence also allows you to fully utilize the titan power in question. Because... reasons. That would mean that the fact that Erin wants to see what's outside the walls by itself would mean he's capable of saving humanity.

... Honestly, this random theory doesn't logically follow anything at all, but it feels like a neat and tidy idea to me, even if it's kind of silly. (No more silly than the manga's already gotten, though, with mass mind control and that kind of nonsense.)

That said, if it's a birthright thing you'd be right to say that totally undercuts the whole fight-against-fate theme of the manga.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
I hope not because one of the themes is how good intentions lead to bad outcomes. Eren's story is a twisted version of the usual power fantasy.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009

Eiba posted:

Random poorly thought out theory vaguely inspired by this: Perhaps part of the power to change people's feelings has been in play the whole time, and perhaps it discourages any interest in the world outside the walls. This would mean that people who do then express interest in the world outside are, for whatever reason, immune to the mind control. Perhaps it just randomly happens in some people with 'strong wills' or whatever.

Furthermore, suppose whatever makes one insusceptible to mental influence also allows you to fully utilize the titan power in question. Because... reasons. That would mean that the fact that Erin wants to see what's outside the walls by itself would mean he's capable of saving humanity.

... Honestly, this random theory doesn't logically follow anything at all, but it feels like a neat and tidy idea to me, even if it's kind of silly. (No more silly than the manga's already gotten, though, with mass mind control and that kind of nonsense.)

That said, if it's a birthright thing you'd be right to say that totally undercuts the whole fight-against-fate theme of the manga.

Instead of birthright it can just be a rare, inherent trait.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 273 days!

Terror Sweat posted:

It's not his fault that Bert did a flying elbow off the top rope or that the scumbag merchant betrayed him

Or that he can't get hard.

(Probably because he doesn't have that power).

BambooEarpick
Sep 3, 2008

Nelson Mandingo posted:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iyrQbS6B4Uw/TpEqmG3_TcI/AAAAAAAAA0k/K3QKVzLEOz0/019.png?imgmax=3000 It's safe to say at this point that was Frieda. She knew the Yeager family for whatever reason and wiped Eren's mind of meeting her.

Holy crap! That is amazing. She gave Eren the scarf as a parting present.

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤
While we wait for the first Titan drop of the millenium, why not enjoy some Spoof on Titan? To be honest, most of the SoT stuff is sort of inoffensively bland, but this month is a little hopeful in a way we don't often see from the universe.

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005



Chapter 65's spoiler notes are. It's a pretty sad chapter.

http://mangapill.com/shingeki-no-kyojin/65

I'm guessing Eren really is going to die and Historia takes his place in the story. Isayama obviously has no hesitation in killing him off. The only thing he's got going for his survival at this point is the basement. Again and again this story is completely unpredictable. Rod Reiss truly is an rear end in a top hat.

Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jan 7, 2015

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Eren's not dying.

Sub Harrison
May 2, 2013

Must resist and wait for translate

wireframeskull
Dec 3, 2006

So Asians and Ackermans have immunity to mind magic... does this mean that Mikasa has double immunity?!

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤
Holy poo poo guys.

EDIT: There's no way Eren's dead. I think one of his father's memories will kick loose and he'll remember why he should be fighting.

It does seem like Mikasa should be double-immune to Eren's head Command ability, so I guess Eren didn't forcibly change her personality when they were kids. One theory down!

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005



http://www.crunchyroll.com/comics_read/manga?volume_id=273&chapter_num=65.00

Honestly, I really truly believe Eren will die and if he doesn't it'll be an honest surprise. Issue 15 and 16 are from Isayama's own words the pivotal moment in the story. 66 will be the final chapter of issue 16. The core of Eren's character is he wants to 1. Kill all of the Titans 2. Explore the outside world. 3. Is completely determined in whatever situation he's in. He's completely lost all of that in the span of 4 chapters. Can he get it back or change? This is really his darkest hour.

Historia even says this chapter that she's going to take Eren's place in the story and do everything he really wanted. Everything about her is pretty much symbolism with becoming the true queen. Her name, the whole "Goddess" shtick, searching for a purpose in her life, and so on. So yeah. Isayama could totally kill Eren off and it would 100% work in the narrative. Oh and yeah you need your spinal fluid to live before anyone wonders.

Even if Eren has plot armor, it just goes to show that with good writing you can make it seem like a character doesn't have it that he's this close to death.





The reveal with the Ackermans really worked out. I don't feel so bad about Levi being an Ackerman anymore. Isayama made it work.

Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 9, 2015

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤
If Historia eats Eren, Mikasa's gonna kill her.

I doubt Eren will die, because his constant dumb courage has been the core of the series, but if he does die, Mikasa will have to stop being a core character. One character being voted off the island I can see, but two?

I'm predicting that a totally sweet Titan fight will break out, and Eren will end up trapping Historia underground. They'll have to journey out to find Team Traitor and feed one of them to the captive Historia to restore her humanity.

EDIT: Wait, poo poo - I have it. They're going to feed her Annie.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Hah. So this chapter is saying that we need diversity to protect ourselves from ignorance. :haw:

Unfortunately, I think Historia is about to be killed.

Caros
May 14, 2008

my dad posted:

Hah. So this chapter is saying that we need diversity to protect ourselves from ignorance. :haw:

Unfortunately, I think Historia is about to be killed.

Yeah, I have to say, reading this it looks to me like Historia is about to get straight up murdered by the rest of her friends. Eren might be resolved, but if they show up in time I can't see them just standing by and letting Eren get eaten.

threeagainstfour
Jun 27, 2005


Nelson Mandingo posted:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/comics_read/manga?volume_id=273&chapter_num=65.00

Honestly, I really truly believe Eren will die and if he doesn't it'll be an honest surprise. Issue 15 and 16 are from Isayama's own words the pivotal moment in the story. 66 will be the final chapter of issue 16. The core of Eren's character is he wants to 1. Kill all of the Titans 2. Explore the outside world. 3. Is completely determined in whatever situation he's in. He's completely lost all of that in the span of 4 chapters. Can he get it back or change?

Eren may believe all of that right now, given what he's heard, but that doesn't mean it's true. We still don't know much beyond our own conjecture when it comes to the motives of Eren's father when he killed the Reese family and stole the power of the Titans.

It could be there was a drat good reason to do that outside of merely ensuring Eren's survival, and Reese is either withholding it or does not know about it. Eren finding out what that is could give him renewed purpose.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

I do believe that all season 2 fans are going to be terribly dissapointed if it takes the manga route.

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤
Why... would it not do that? What would be disappointing?

Captain Baal
Oct 23, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
There is so much of the story that is interwoven between Eren and Historia that either of them dying is a dumb thing to do, especially in the case of Eren.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012


Annie's gonna get offed, which provides a way to bring the other human titans back into the story.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

In It For The Tank posted:

Eren, don't you dare let yourself get eaten, you wanker.

!!!!!

But now I am confident that he won't be eaten. If it was going to happen, it wouldn't have been drawn out like this. The fact that Eren has made peace with it and Historia has gone past the point of no return means that the cruelest twist will be for Eren to be rescued, so that's what will happen.

But someone is going to die saving him. Also I'm thinking that Reiss, as he is right next to Historia, gets eaten first.

I also think that Eren will end up transforming to save his friends. He's willing to get eaten, but there's no way he'll let his friends die in front of him. That's not part of the plan. I don't know what happens next for Historia, but she either dies or is trapped in the cavern until they feed her Annie (or Ymir comes back and sacrifices herself somewhere down the line). There's no way she eats Eren.

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Jan 9, 2015

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It
Mmm delicious reiss cakes.

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Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Edit: Oh nevermind.

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