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No, she also does weird "gotcha!"-ing on irrelevant aspects of peoples' posts. Like the post on me that I quoted (how can you possibly have that opinion?) and this line in her post about YPM earlier fiery_valkyrie posted:Firstly you're super confident that Merk is scum, then you say "if Merk is scum". To begin with you dont explain why you think Merk is scum, not even to agree with anyone else's cases, but your snipe contributes to an overall anti-merk mood in the thread. That post on YPM really does feel like she's straining to make a case on him. She starts off from a position of "you're a bad town player", makes a few points on him -didn't pursue CT -he made an alignment call on amoeba that wasn't earned -he expressed differing levels of uncertainty on merk's scumminess -he made a post analysing merk's behaviour from the starting assumption that f_v is scum and overreached in logic -he avoided making comments on Somber's alignment (  )and jumps to "your behaviour is scummy". I just don't see how, if your prior is "YPM is a bad townie", that behaviour adds up to him being scum.
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Jan 11, 2015 18:35
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That's not bad. I didn't really see any of that when I read through but it's kind of compelling when put together. What do you think of Chic?
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Jan 11, 2015 18:57
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Dugong is weird because he jumps on an innocuous and logical imo position on merk and tried to make it a thing Pm its not a nonopinion. There's really very few good reasons to lynch somebody and people poo poo on legitimate avenue of meta because reasons
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Jan 11, 2015 18:58
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Tremendous Taste posted:Dugong is weird because he jumps on an innocuous and logical imo position on merk and tried to make it a thing Ah yeah I know the post you meant. Yeah, that was a dumb post but I'm not sure it's intentionally scummy, I thought it was just Dugong being an idiot. Pinterest Mom posted:I just don't see how, if your prior is "YPM is a bad townie", that behaviour adds up to him being scum. Dammit, why does one of my scum picks have to say something that makes sense 
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Jan 11, 2015 19:04
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fiery_valkyrie posted:Your original case against me included the point that I hadn't called anyone scum. Now I'm calling people scum over and over? You're just making things up about me. A review of my post history shows pretty clearly that I haven't called people scum "over and over". That's fair; I wasn't that clear here in my speed of typing. Explicitly, you haven't made scum calls. In fact, you've gone out of you way to avoid making scum calls. But there's an implicit suggestion when you turn YPM's own posts against him to force an alignment call, sort of a "what's good for the goose" situation. Compounding that with your own reluctance to make those explicit alignment calls, and it adds a layer of hypocrisy to the mix. I think you saw a chance to make YPM look foolish and took it, but your own reluctance to make any alignment calls and the way you dropped it after he did nothing substantial in response shows you weren't really interested in him making calls. I think you just wanted to look active, get credit for a sorta "gotcha" post. Pinterest Mom posted:No, she also does weird "gotcha!"-ing on irrelevant aspects of peoples' posts. And now I feel less clever for calling it a "gotcha" post.
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Jan 11, 2015 20:05
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Votecount for Day 2  merk (6): Byers2142, Chic Trombone, Pinterest Mom, Winged Orpheus, Rarity, Allen Wren, merk, fiery_valkyrie (2): Byers2142, KhyrosFinalCut, Your Personal Muse, Chic Trombone (2): merk, Byers2142 (1): Ernie. Ernie. (0): Byers2142, Your Personal Muse (0): Ernie., Dugong (0): merk, Pinterest Mom (0): Rarity, Not Voting (8): Amoeba102, Asiina, Dugong, fiery_valkyrie, Juanito, Little Mac, Tremendous Taste, uranusWith 19 alive, it's 10 votes to lynch. The current deadline is January 11th, 2015 at 7 p.m. EST -- that's in about 4 hours, 53 minutes.
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Jan 11, 2015 20:06
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merk posted:That's not bad. I didn't really see any of that when I read through but it's kind of compelling when put together. Dammit, again notice that merk is not looking at anything beyond individual posts, so without the case being laid out in a singular post he wouldn't pick up on it because he's not hunting scum, he already knows who's scum. Here's the problem. Now that he's got real pressure, merk's going to become very rational and reasoning. He's going to want people to make other cases on other people, and make lots of "that's interesting" posts about it. This is a smoke screen. He's not going to keep being scummy, he's going to adjust until he's just below the level of being lynched. Every day he will have a sizable number of votes on him, but he'll keep up this pattern and avoid the hammer, and instead someone else will eat the hammer. There were several people who said they though that merk was scum but weren't voting him. Now that he's in this mode, his job is going to be developing reasonable doubt in people's minds, and the longer he's alive the more he'll succeed at this. Plus, scum can help stack the deck via smart night kills. His social game is good enough that as the game goes on, his chances of being lynched will drop. Do not let him off the hook now.
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Jan 11, 2015 20:13
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I looked at all of f_v's posts.
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Jan 11, 2015 20:55
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Byers2142 posted:Even Somber softened his Chic case after a single back-and-forth exchange from Chic, and he dropped back below f_v and KFC fairly quickly. Why Chic, what about her posting makes you think scum? He held onto it pretty consistently, which struck me as I was catching up - every once in a while one of Chic's posts would sound off to me and then Somber would pop up echoing what I thought. The initial "don't confirm people for being good at chess" was the first one that jumped out, the line about not wanting to lurker lynch, the note about how she modded the game where merk vigged someone as though that would make any difference, landing on a very weak Somber vote, so on.
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Jan 11, 2015 21:32
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merk posted:I switched to bourbon. Support America. uranus posted:bourbon is good too. knob creek and woodford reserve. yum. I usually keep a bottle of Bulleit handy, too. Good reasonably-priced stuff.
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Jan 11, 2015 21:39
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Asiina posted:Whoops, I accidentally stopped reading this thread for a while. Little Mac posted:Not right now! Will give something substantialish over the weekend. Deadline is only a couple of hours away. Are you two hoping to just slide past unnoticed today?
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Jan 11, 2015 21:50
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2 hours till deadline, everyone's so quiet
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Jan 11, 2015 22:42
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I have to go to a visitation in like fifteen minutes. I might not be here at deadline.
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Jan 11, 2015 22:43
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Okay I finally got around to reading the entirety of D2. With regards to fv: Byers2142 posted:That makes more sense. Now, why is it a scum tell to want to know the effect? That's the part I'm not getting; someone trying to learn what was affected by a day action is a null tell. At best, you could make the argument that all it tells us is that Amoeba and f_v can't be scumbros, or else why ask in the thread, but even that's a weak argument to make with other supporting evidence to shore it up. I agree with this. Asking about the effect is dumb, but not scummy. FV's very defensive posture is scummy and her calling out YPM but then not following up is also scummy. Your Personal Muse posted:To be clear, I'm voting FV because she tried to force me to produce content with absolutely no follow up. It's not like I gave a home run answer or anything, she went through the motions, which seems like scum faking content. Basically this. Then merk steals the show: merk posted:I was going to post a case on Chic, but I think I've already done that. I also think the best case on Dugong is literally quoting that one post. I don't like the arrogance and flippantness (is this a word?) of merk's posting in general in this game as evidenced in this post, specifically for reasons Byers points out: Byers2142 posted:I disagree, at this point in the game there's been plenty of posts and time to get a sense of most player's body of work or lack thereof. Moreso, I think it speaks to a scum mentality to consider the game like that right now. There's a whole bunch of content here that I can quote, but I agree wholeheartedly with Byers analysis of merk. He's my number one pick for the day. ##vote merk Thoughts on others: I like YPM's defense of himself and his pushing on fv. I'm feeling good about it. I'm also feeling good about KFC, even though I disagree that fv's post about the map change is a scummy act. Also Winged Orpheus, who reads as newbie town. Your Personal Muse posted:To be clear, I'm voting FV because she tried to force me to produce content with absolutely no follow up. It's not like I gave a home run answer or anything, she went through the motions, which seems like scum faking content. YPM made this post about fv and I can see it for her, but this is also how I feel about Rarity and to a lesser extent PMom right now. They've both made sniping, one line questions that feel like "I'm here generating content" without actually generating content.
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Jan 11, 2015 22:43
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I probably should claim... but.... nope.
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Jan 11, 2015 22:43
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Arrogance is now a scum tell. You heard it here first.
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Jan 11, 2015 22:44
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Ok, getting harassed to get dressed. I'm out. I'm not scum. Lynhjng me is bad. Please please please please lynch Chic after I flip town. Don't let me die silently.
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Jan 11, 2015 22:45
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And "lynching me is bad" isn't a soft claim. I'm not claiming but I'm not holding information to the grave if that makes sense (I.e. I'm not a cop with a night result that I'm refusing to give).
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Jan 11, 2015 22:46
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Ugh. I'm starting to wonder if the scum are just letting us all hang each other, and they don't even have to post to let us do it. I'm not innocent of it, but there are so many people not saying anything at all. I'm not saying much of anything because I've got basically nothing to go on, and posting when you've got nothing to go on is basically just as bad as not posting when you've got nothing to go on. And of course this post will get read as both "wow, lots of words to say nothing" and "caring too much", while I could just not post and get read as "wow, so active day one but hiding now" and "completely doesn't care about following up their cases" This loving game.
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Jan 11, 2015 22:52
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Look, I'll be around later to post and poo poo but not to re-read the whole thread. If someone can just summarise briefly some players and the cases on a few people that'd be great.
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Jan 11, 2015 23:11
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fiery_valkyrie posted:Deadline is only a couple of hours away. Are you two hoping to just slide past unnoticed today? I'm not a fan of this lurker callout. What do you think of merk? You've done a lot of talk about people's cases on him but you haven't actually talked about him at all
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Jan 11, 2015 23:24
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Fv is scum for prodding people into claiming effects from the map change, then being ludicrously defensive when the idea was even brought up. I didn't think the first part made a good case but I don't think she would bother being so verbose in the defense of a case that didn't get anything right. I'm about to start driving so I will prob miss deadline if it's 7
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Jan 11, 2015 23:27
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I see a few people dithering between fv and merk, or at least the vibe that people are dithering between Fv and merk. Maybe a little Chic too. I'd just like to see a short bullet point list. Or a something like Khyros has.
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Jan 11, 2015 23:46
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Rarity posted:I'm not a fan of this lurker callout. What do you think of merk? You've done a lot of talk about people's cases on him but you haven't actually talked about him at all I think he's probably town. You said it earlier about someone else, but what is he achieving by acting like this as scum. There are plenty of people I could have called out as lurker's. I specifically mentioned those two because they did the whole "oh yeah I'm totally coming back to post stuff later". I'd like to hear your thoughts on them, especially about Asiina's comments on Somber, which I mentioned earlier.
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Jan 11, 2015 23:59
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fiery_valkyrie posted:I'd like to hear your thoughts on them, especially about Asiina's comments on Somber, which I mentioned earlier. Her vote for Somber looks solely based on a gut read which is easily faked but I've already said Asiina is one of my bigger scum picks anyway. There is nothing to say about LM because he has posted nothing and will probably be modkilled tonight
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Jan 12, 2015 00:07
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KhyrosFinalCut posted:Fv is scum for prodding people into claiming effects from the map change, then being ludicrously defensive when the idea was even brought up. I didn't think the first part made a good case but I don't think she would bother being so verbose in the defense of a case that didn't get anything right. Scum get jumpy. I've seen scum get defensive over a case that's gotten everything wrong before. Amoeba102 posted:Look, I'll be around later to post and poo poo but not to re-read the whole thread. If someone can just summarise briefly some players and the cases on a few people that'd be great. So I took a look back at your post history after I read this because "can someone else give me the cases for me" is something that always gets my back up. And I found a few things: Amoeba102 posted:That's cool. I'm only here because Diqnol asked me and I'm not really going to play till next week at the earliest. Somberbrero posted:Is it an ability you can use multiple times? Amoeba102 posted:No Day 1 only. You're not going to even start playing until next week, and we're supposed to let that fly? And your ability to do things you don't know was only on D1, but you had a new day ability D2 that again you didn't know what it did? All of this raises warning bells. Really, really big ones. For starters, it's pretty clear your role has day abilities beyond just D1, but looking back at your conversation with Somber, you're saying it's D1 only. You could argue that you're saying that the chess game action alone is D1 only, but still it's lovely.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:12
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The chess game event was D1 only; I knew I was going to get a new event D2 if I bet correctly on the chess. But why would I give that away? I will be clear here now, I have been given literally information about how to gain any more events beyond the map change today (I didn't even know it would be a map change until I was told btw). "Next week" would be this week. But also at the earliest. I play at work and it depends how full on work is. And right now it's too full on to spend a lot of time reading up on everyone.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:20
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fiery_valkyrie posted:I think he's probably town. You said it earlier about someone else, but what is he achieving by acting like this as scum. By refusing to engage with cases against him, he tries to force the people casing to give up from frustration. It's rope a dope, mafia style. Then, when people like me won't go away, he addresses it quickly and tries to turn the conversation to someone else. Look at the times he's made a post where the first paragraph is a short retort against someone casing him, and the second paragraph is asking their opinion on another person. He also acts very interested and complimentary about cases people bring to him when he does this, to seem engaged and thoughtful. All of that lessens suspicion on him enough to move him below other people in the scum list and avoid amajority voting him. Literally everything he's doing is being done for survival. Even his more aggressive posts are meant to belittle the cases being made (but not the people making him, merk's actually a really stand-up guy about not making things personal in games). There's a lot to be gained from posting like that, for the scum perspective. Rarity posted:There is nothing to say about LM because he has posted nothing and will probably be modkilled tonight Agreed; in a big game, we've got more time to let lurkers get modkilled before we need to start wasting days taking care of them ourselves. Asiina is a little different, as when she's come back she's made an effort to look like she's trying, but generally I feel the same about both of them. If they don't pick it up tomorrow, either they get modkilled or we start taking out lynchers starting D4, depending on what the number of people alive versus dead scum looks like.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:21
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Amoeba102 posted:The chess game event was D1 only; I knew I was going to get a new event D2 if I bet correctly on the chess. But why would I give that away? So the map change was a result of betting correctly, but no one else who bet on merk got a day action?
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Jan 12, 2015 00:24
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They were loved D1.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:26
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Byers2142 posted:So the map change was a result of betting correctly, but no one else who bet on merk got a day action? Yeah, because of my role. Other people may have secretly gotten something, just like how the map change secretly changed things for people. But that information is not information I have.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:27
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Asiina posted:They were loved D1. He's talking about beyond that.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:27
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Amoeba102 posted:He's talking about beyond that. Right, Amoeba got loved, but also supposedly a new day action. It wasn't from the role, not directly. I'm dubious about that, but can't completely discount it. Not without know a lot more about the map change on other people's roles, at least, so I'll backburner that for now. We're 25 minutes away, and merk's -3. Next closest is f_v at -8. Given that it's NFL playoff Sunday and an early deadline, it's likely a choice between merk and no one. Amoeba, can you give me one reason why a town merk would shoot Opop immediately, instead of either shooting someone thought to be scummy or holding for later in the day in case something more definitive is revealed?
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Jan 12, 2015 00:35
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##vote fv I promise this is the better call. Live the dream, SA mafia.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:39
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merk posted:##vote fv Don't believe his lies, SA mafia.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:40
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Made it home before deadline, gonna quickly catch up
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Jan 12, 2015 00:41
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Also, just over 15 minutes. Who's here?
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Jan 12, 2015 00:41
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merk posted:##vote fv I agree, but likely not for the same reasons you think so. I've been one of the main candidates for 2 days now. There is more content about me than anyone else in the game I'm a major distraction from discussion of anyone else and scum are taking full advantage of that. I think confirming my alignment is the best thing for town right now.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:42
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merk posted:##vote fv Oh look who's here. merk posted:I have to go to a visitation in like fifteen minutes. I might not be here at deadline. Bailing to avoid heat is one of merk's major scum tactics. He told us about it in the X-Men scum doc. Vote merk for a brighter America 
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Jan 12, 2015 00:42
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And yet people keep putting deadlines on weekends.
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Jan 12, 2015 00:45
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