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Unormal posted:I'm dipping my toe in the water to see if I have the 4 player co-op "Gauntlet" where the gameworld is randomly generated and the classes are somewhat like Dungeons of Dredmor (where you can pick certain skills or go all in on random)?  TAKE IT.
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Jan 18, 2015 13:33
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to make a 4-player co-op action roguelike thing... It's a serious technical step up from single-player, but I'm really liking this framework that I'm testing out.
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Unormal posted:I'm dipping my toe in the water to see if I have the holy poo poo
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Jan 18, 2015 13:43
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If you're going down that road, will you be retaining the traditional roguelike 1 turn = 1 step format, or would you switch to an action point budget? The former seems like it could get pretty tedious in multiplayer.
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Jan 18, 2015 14:38
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Man, I really wish I didn't suck at CoQ so much! The game just seems like the kind of thing I'd absolutely love, but I can't get anywhere when I play it, and then I just kind of die. And yeah, I've done all of the powerful builds suggested here, I'm just bad at it.
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Jan 18, 2015 16:19
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If you're having a lot of trouble, roll Angry Diplomat's axe turtle build and start scum til the 3 unattended chests in Joppa have a couple weird artifacts you can hand Argyve. From there, go to each of the Rust Wells and pick up any wire you find on the surface, dipping into the first underground floor of one of them if you still don't have 200 feet. Pick up any bronze daggers, short bows and iron/steel equipment you find and equip anything you can to increase your AV. If you're really lucky, the shopkeeper in Joppa will have a steel or carbide axe for sale, which you should be able to buy with all the crap you've been hoovering up. From there, poke around in the desert canyons north of Joppa til level 10 or so (don't go underground). If you have a carbide axe and ~10 AV you can take on Equimaxes 1 or 2 at a time (do this at night to keep the rest of the herd from noticing) for 350 xp a piece. After that go do the red rock quest and go poke around the ruins near grit gate if you're still in need of gear (you'll find lots of steel and carbide equipment there). Go into the Grit Gate itself once you're comfortable with your gear and move on with the rest of the story quests.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:05
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Alternatively, take any powerful ranged offensive mutation and kite Equimaxes to death right from the start.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:06
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:If you're going down that road, will you be retaining the traditional roguelike 1 turn = 1 step format, or would you switch to an action point budget? The former seems like it could get pretty tedious in multiplayer. I guess you could have timed turns (make a move every 5 seconds or so) with tightly packed content. Then for when you need to rummage through your inventory or whatever, there could be a timeout feature, where you get a minute to do whatever.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:24
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Finishing Argyve's quest first is a brilliant idea in retrospect. The Joppa recoiler he gives you can get you out of any fight that's going badly -- at the cost, of course, of taking you back to Joppa so you have to hoof it back to wherever you were going. Though, I forget if he gives it to you with a power cell. The most reliable build I've done so far is Esper/Light Manipulation/Sunder Mind/Temporal Fugue/Evil Twin with a Water Merchant background and maxed Ego (and, IIRC, 18 Intelligence/Toughness and the rest into Strength). You can largely ignore melee combat as long as you recharge your lasers between fights, Sunder Mind can take down single targets in one shot fairly reliably, and your time clones are a powerful, if chaotic, extra force. Spend your first 12 or so mutation points on getting extra powers; your Ego is so high you won't be able to power up your abilities until level 18 or so anyway. Pyrokinesis and Disintegration are both pretty useful picks.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:27
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SnowblindFatal posted:I guess you could have timed turns (make a move every 5 seconds or so) with tightly packed content. Then for when you need to rummage through your inventory or whatever, there could be a timeout feature, where you get a minute to do whatever. Do inventory like in Shadows over Mystara (the D&D beat-em-up Capcom made a couple decades ago) where inventory management is done between-levels, and your inventory is small (max of, I think, 6 items).
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Jan 18, 2015 17:29
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:If you're going down that road, will you be retaining the traditional roguelike 1 turn = 1 step format, or would you switch to an action point budget? The former seems like it could get pretty tedious in multiplayer. Currently I'm just thinking it's an real-time action game with a somewhat more stately, tactical pace that tends to happen along 90 degree gridlines. Not a twitchy bullethell. We'll see how that thinking goes when I've actually got it going in reality. The "inventory" I'm thinking is more Sproggiwood-like, but with more slots. Basically make the 4 back bumpers (and maybe 2 face buttons?) "use" slots, and have enemies drop equipment you can swap into those slots. So your character becomes an assortment of 4-8 small abilities that you mix and match as you survive through levels. Unormal fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jan 18, 2015 |
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Jan 18, 2015 17:37
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Unormal posted:Currently I'm just thinking it's an real-time action game with a somewhat more stately, tactical pace that tends to happen along 90 degree gridlines. Not a twitchy bullethell. We'll see how that thinking goes when I've actually got it going in reality. I would expect some bizarre poo poo beyond this because I got a bizarre bag of bizarre ideas ready to go.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:05
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hand of luke posted:I would expect some bizarre poo poo beyond this because I got a bizarre bag of bizarre ideas ready to go. I am prepared to graft a bag of bizzare ideas to my motley mire of mostly mundane mechanics. (Once I get this netcode working!)
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Jan 18, 2015 18:08
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Please don't do permanent loot. One shot items are great (similar to some items from gauntlet legends), but permanent loot just wastes time as people fiddle with it. Also, if you do have any skill/inventory management, it's important that all players be able to manage it at once to reduce downtime.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:17
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Dirk the Average posted:Please don't do permanent loot. One shot items are great (similar to some items from gauntlet legends), but permanent loot just wastes time as people fiddle with it. Also, if you do have any skill/inventory management, it's important that all players be able to manage it at once to reduce downtime. the only same-screen game i've ever seen that did inventory management well was final fantasy crystal chronicles when everybody played it using those gba -> gamecube cables.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:22
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Unormal posted:Currently I'm just thinking it's an real-time action game with a somewhat more stately, tactical pace that tends to happen along 90 degree gridlines. Not a twitchy bullethell. We'll see how that thinking goes when I've actually got it going in reality. this sounds hot as hell.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:31
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e:woops not the making games thread
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Jan 18, 2015 18:41
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Unormal posted:I'm dipping my toe in the water to see if I have the This might finally convince me to make some friends...
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Jan 18, 2015 19:01
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Dirk the Average posted:Please don't do permanent loot. One shot items are great (similar to some items from gauntlet legends), but permanent loot just wastes time as people fiddle with it. Also, if you do have any skill/inventory management, it's important that all players be able to manage it at once to reduce downtime. One interesting solution to this could be to put in permanent loot, but have it be a one-at-a-time thing - you can only carry one Item (single-use treasure, consumed when it's activated) and one piece of Gear (provides a passive benefit or trade-off while held) at a time, and picking up a new one automatically discards the old one. Let players squabble among themselves over who gets the Reinforced Helmet, but don't waste time on inventory management. That's time better spent on infighting when someone grabs the thing for themselves!  Speaking of infighting, Crawl (not DCSS, the non-roguelike kill-your-friends Crawl on Steam) recently added a new endboss. The way three players cooperate to murder the Human player with the endboss is really goddamn neat; I wonder how practical it would be for a co-op game to incorporate special megaboss battles where the players control different parts of some sort of Megazord-esque superweapon or summoned monster to defeat a gigantic walking hell of a boss.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:44
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Angry Diplomat posted:One interesting solution to this could be to put in permanent loot, but have it be a one-at-a-time thing - you can only carry one Item (single-use treasure, consumed when it's activated) and one piece of Gear (provides a passive benefit or trade-off while held) at a time, and picking up a new one automatically discards the old one. Let players squabble among themselves over who gets the Reinforced Helmet, but don't waste time on inventory management. That's time better spent on infighting when someone grabs the thing for themselves! Really the problem in those games is mostly the Diablo-esque point salad randarts that take forever to look at; having skills/gear that don't change would actually better. I think using the Transistor system for a game like that could be neat, particularly if you don't allow re-speccing. You can use that new powerup as a skill or use it to buff a previously existing one - but when your skill has two buffs on it, you'll lose a lot more if you overwrite it.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:54
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Yeah, my current idea is to have each slot hold only one thing, and not be able to have a floating inventory of crap to hoard. Like sproggis consumable slot. I'd also like each thing you can swap in be a pretty distinct little nugget, like a qud mutation. Each one pretty not elaborate, but simple. distinct and combineable. Handofluke has some of his own ideas though!
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Jan 18, 2015 20:18
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hito posted:Really the problem in those games is mostly the Diablo-esque point salad randarts that take forever to look at; having skills/gear that don't change would actually better. Exactly this. Upgrades need to be clear and very simple to understand. It can still be a difficult choice, but players should know exactly what benefits they're going to have in a matter of seconds.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:31
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Not quite what I intended, but also not without redeeming qualities: e: Here we go, a host & client running with 2 players with projectiles, using high simulated latency & packet drop. Not the second coming, but it's a start! 
Unormal fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 04:12
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It is like a roomba cleaning the floor.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:52
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I'm not quite sure I understand. That's perfect. Ship it. You're done!
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Jan 19, 2015 05:00
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Unormal posted:Not quite what I intended, but also not without redeeming qualities:
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Jan 19, 2015 05:10
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When did Tam start carrying fullerite?   E: I went into the Rusted Archway and Qud started leaking memory like crazy. 2 GB and counting. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 10:44
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Helical Nightmares posted:So excited! What aspect of Morrowind's system are you referring to? NPC opinions based on your faction alignment? Or the quest-based, mutually exclusive House advancement? Our original idea of intertwined faction quest lines was similar to Morrowind's House advancement. Some of that system is sticking around, since we're trying to make alignment with the major factions important in the mid/late game. But in the Qud tradition of "here's a giant system to play around with," rather than making the major factions special, they're just pieces of a bigger faction ecosystem that includes apes, hermits, crabs, etc. The core faction system is already in place and to some degree driving monster behavior -- it's why Argyve murders the zealot if he wanders too close and glowpads murder glowfish (for whatever reason in the past, glowpads got set to hate glowfish). We're just finally taking advantage of it and adding much more granular factions. And on top of that, we're adding a reputation system that controls each faction member's base opinion of you. This'll let us do some cool things immediately, like make the Carapace mutation give you reputation with the tortoise faction, and also lay the groundwork for your interactions with the plot-oriented factions.
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Jan 19, 2015 21:28
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dis astranagant posted:When did Tam start carrying fullerite? Most of the loot tables have a chance to penetrate to the next table, so it's possible for Tam to carry fullerite. From a quick look at the code, looks like there's about a 0.03% chance. So it's a quite rare world where Tam's caravan dredged up the remains of an experienced adventurer with a fullerite sword.
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Jan 19, 2015 22:03
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Naturally, that run ended when the first scrap clad hermit I found looted a desert rifle and wasted my rear end before I even realized what was up. I really should have bought that musket and murdered Tam for that sword, even though I was planning on going axes. How are you supposed to deal with Cragmensch without being a massively overleveled and overgeared turtleman? Their attacks are pretty ridiculous and their AV is rather excessive. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 23:23
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They seem to move fairly slowly, so simply kiting them could work if you have ranged mutations or a good gun. They're basically huge bricks of AV and health with big maces for hands. Boulderers can be fuckers, though; if you have lower AV those boulders can hit hard.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:43
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The only gun that reliably scratches them is the phase cannon. They have 15 base AV and 50%+ in all elemental resists. A 2h fullerite axe and the strength to back it up took ages for every kill.
dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 00:45
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Solution: take the temporal vortex mutation on every character and just banish them to the distant land of Someone Else's Problem  I dunno, I only ever tangle with them on beastly axe or cudgel characters. I tend to avoid them on anyone else. Also, I only make it very far into Bethesda Susa on brutish melee chainsaws anyway. If I come across a good method of dealing with them I'll let you know.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:55
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Unormal posted:Not quite what I intended, but also not without redeeming qualities: Make it 3-D, and you've got Ender's Game Battle School.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:57
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My guess is a missile launcher, explosions tend to gently caress my turtles up. They don't have any electric resistance but there aren't a lot of ways for the player to do that. At least you can shred those loving trolls with guns. With possible exception of the invisible rear end in a top hat at the end of that gauntlet.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:58
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dis astranagant posted:How are you supposed to deal with Cragmensch without being a massively overleveled and overgeared turtleman? Their attacks are pretty ridiculous and their AV is rather excessive. I was able to kill them through a half-dozen turns of sustained lasering, but it does take a ridiculous amount of time.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:40
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dis astranagant posted:If you have a carbide axe and ~10 AV you can take on Equimaxes 1 or 2 at a time (do this at night to keep the rest of the herd from noticing) for 350 xp a piece. You horse-slaughtering, night-stalking monster.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:35
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hand of luke posted:You horse-slaughtering, night-stalking monster. What part of murderhobo didn't you get?
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Jan 20, 2015 21:08
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One Badass Elder Irudad.
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Jan 21, 2015 07:13
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Oh, man, Qud. I'm so happy to hear that it's back under development now that Sproggiwood is out! Welp, here goes hours of my life.
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Jan 21, 2015 14:09
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Lprsti99 posted:Oh, man, Qud. I'm so happy to hear that it's back under development now that Sproggiwood is out! Same here, this has been a good thread, with many delicious roguelike treats. Caves of Qud however stands at the pinnacle. Sproggiwood admittedly was not my thing, so I'm pretty psyched that Qud is getting some more love. Going to be putting many hours in so I'll be in shape for the eventual Steam release.
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Jan 21, 2015 15:33
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