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Hokuto posted:Really, at the end of the day, blatant favoritism is rewarded more highly than anything else in all late-gen SRW games. It is the SRW Anime plot taken to the extreme. You don't need numbers, you just need a single elite squad. In the case of the games you just need a single OP unit that's better than everything else. You get there by maxing the hell out of the weapons, maybe some stats, and stacking the best items you can. Edit: The games got actually infinitely easier once you start upgrade weapons/attacks to maximum. In the case of OG1/2 you just have to know which ones are needed for combination attacks. I really should play one of the games with ex-hard mode just to see how hard they can actually get. With proper upgrades the games are far too easy and tend to me more of an exercise of how many bosses can I kill in a single turn. Lostconfused fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 04:22
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WrightOfWay posted:Katz is better than Emma mechanically. Even if you're right, I refuse to acknowledge this madness.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:29
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All you need to know about upgrades is that the later pips give more than the earlier pips, so it pays off to specialize rather than spread out. Unless you want to use everyone equally then spread them out, game is pretty easy but you may have a long slog of a final stage or two if you don't know how to break the game. Really not using Basara is probably your main problem. AoE Hot Blood transfer speeds everything up. Also for whatever reason, I had an absurd amount of money in Z3.1 so I was able to max upgrade a lot of things when I last played that one with upgrades.
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Jan 22, 2015 07:01
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Just gor the Li-Brasta in Z2.2 and it has really bad shoes even for an OG mech. At least it can hadouken!
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Jan 23, 2015 13:33
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How the hell is SRW A not on psn? drat, I would really rather not try and get a psp to work.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:24
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So wait, I should have been upgrading my weapons all this time? Not my stats, armor and HP, but I should have dumped it all on weapons and then the game gets easier? poo poo, everyone's sitting on Weapon Level 5 and I'm only just starting 54. Also I never really use Basara because I don't understand how to use the guy, but from what I've read then that morale boost is really interesting. And I've only really bought the parts from the bottom screen of the D-Trader. I only just now bought one of the system things. (The Z chip one) Oh yeah by the way what else besides a x% of money gets carried over in NG+?
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Jan 24, 2015 06:02
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Most SRW games, I think you can basically upgrade willy nilly and still beat the game. But on a theorycrafting optimal level, I think what works for me is... 1) Upgrade the main defensive stat (Armor/Mobility) of the handful of characters you consider to be your "mainliners" until you feel comfortable that they'll survive even if jumped by tons of mobs. 2) Upgrade weapons. I like at least one grunt-basher and one good boss-killer, although nowadays good units tend to be able to do anything. Upgrading the weapon of a dedicated Support Attacker is also nice. I usually only max out the dedicated boss killers though, grunt-bashers tend to get away with less, perhaps 5-8 bars or so. 3) Never FUB except in very specific circumstances because it's really unlikely to be worth the amount of money you put into it, especially with a lot of stats going wasted (like Mobility on Supers) Seems like Z3 has followed L and added "half-upgrade" bonuses nowadays though, which is nice and usually much more worth acquiring, though still on a case by case basis. 4) HP is also usually kind of a pointless upgrade stat for the most part unless they push you over the threshold of being 1 shot by a boss OR the unit has Vigor/Guts/Regen, which means you get more benefit out of using them.
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Jan 24, 2015 06:30
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Higher HP means pilots with Prevail trigger it faster.
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Jan 24, 2015 06:58
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I think pretty much every unit that you plan on having lead a squad long term is worth getting the custom bonus on. Probably the worst custom bonus in the game is Shin Getter but even then Black Getter has a worthwhile one and carries over upgrades. Only needing 5 bars of upgrades means it's pretty cheap.
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Jan 24, 2015 07:46
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WrightOfWay posted:Probably the worst custom bonus in the game is Shin Getter I am sorry did you just say that letting Shin Getter 1 move 15 spaces in a single turn is the worst bonus? But seriously it opens up a ton of options for the way you can use the Getter team, it's hardly the worst upgrade.
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Jan 24, 2015 11:25
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Lostconfused posted:I am sorry did you just say that letting Shin Getter 1 move 15 spaces in a single turn is the worst bonus? Where are you getting 15 spaces? Do you mean if you stack movement items and Accel? Because the difference between Getter 1 and Getter 2 is only 1 movement. That's my problem with it, it's basically just 1 movement if you don't need to fly. Every other similar bonus at least gets something else out of it like Delta Plus functionally gaining flight or Genion getting EN Regen. If Getter 2 and 3 weren't terrible it might be a different story but Getter 1 outclasses them even more than usual thanks to Ryouma's Ace Bonus and a post move ALL attack.
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Jan 24, 2015 12:42
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WrightOfWay posted:Where are you getting 15 spaces? Do you mean if you stack movement items and Accel? Because the difference between Getter 1 and Getter 2 is only 1 movement. That's my problem with it, it's basically just 1 movement if you don't need to fly. Every other similar bonus at least gets something else out of it like Delta Plus functionally gaining flight or Genion getting EN Regen. If Getter 2 and 3 weren't terrible it might be a different story but Getter 1 outclasses them even more than usual thanks to Ryouma's Ace Bonus and a post move ALL attack. I haven't played Z3 so I'm not entirely sure, but assuming the fub bonus and skills are the same between Z2 and Z3 (and it sounds like they are), you can put the Dash skill on Hayato for another +2 movement.
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Jan 24, 2015 14:36
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Yeah I was going by the Z2 ace bonuses which were pretty broken. Z3 kind of evens it out by making the system broken while somewhat nerfing the characters.
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Jan 24, 2015 14:50
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GodofDiscord posted:So wait, I should have been upgrading my weapons all this time? Not my stats, armor and HP, but I should have dumped it all on weapons and then the game gets easier? Look at it this way: You can get by without upgrading stats or weapons until you run into the few really dangerous enemies that the games have and, when you do, then if you are missing upgrades you have to be careful with defensive SP usage and you will be fine, if you are missing weapons instead you are also fine but the process is two or three times as long. If you want to make the game easier, upgrade weapons.
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Jan 24, 2015 15:06
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Yeah, I wish I upgraded weapons more. I just did the final mission of Defy Destiny with the Big O fight and missed the SR point after several tries because the two Big O's remaining (at triple digit HP) refused to attack any of the party members surrounding them and tried to rush at my Big O on the other end of the map. If my guys had better weapons, they probably would have been able to take them out faster.
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Jan 24, 2015 15:36
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Policenaut posted:Yeah, I wish I upgraded weapons more. I just did the final mission of Defy Destiny with the Big O fight and missed the SR point after several tries because the two Big O's remaining (at triple digit HP) refused to attack any of the party members surrounding them and tried to rush at my Big O on the other end of the map. If my guys had better weapons, they probably would have been able to take them out faster. There's pretty much enough money to upgrade all your team to 5 bars by that point if you bought System DME.
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Jan 24, 2015 16:13
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ShiunTouya posted:There's pretty much enough money to upgrade all your team to 5 bars by that point if you bought System DME. On the subject of parts like these, is it the total damage EVERYONE does to all enemies or just the total damage done by the unit equipped with it?
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Jan 24, 2015 16:54
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The Systems you buy are persistent bonuses applied to your army, rather than parts you equip, so yeah it counts for all damage. I cleared one stage with it and got like 57k using it.
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Jan 24, 2015 16:56
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Policenaut posted:The Systems you buy are persistent bonuses applied to your army, rather than parts you equip, so yeah it counts for all damage. I cleared one stage with it and got like 57k using it. drat...I focused on buying Ryouma the D-Extractor and a Chimera Card for Simon but I guess I should've saved some to get these ASAP!
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Jan 24, 2015 16:59
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Brunom1 posted:On the subject of parts like these, is it the total damage EVERYONE does to all enemies or just the total damage done by the unit equipped with it? All the systems are for your whole team so they are incredibly broken and should be what you focus on in your first run. DME particularly gives you so much money that I don't know what to do with it and I'm just in my first run, still. If they aren't nerfed in Tengoku, it's exactly what I'll do again.
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Jan 24, 2015 17:07
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Brunom1 posted:drat...I focused on buying Ryouma the D-Extractor and a Chimera Card for Simon but I guess I should've saved some to get these ASAP! Yeah I didn't even unlock the thing towards the end of the game myself, but I bought it and that extra cash was incredibly useful.
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Jan 24, 2015 17:12
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WrightOfWay posted:Where are you getting 15 spaces? Do you mean if you stack movement items and Accel? Because the difference between Getter 1 and Getter 2 is only 1 movement. That's my problem with it, it's basically just 1 movement if you don't need to fly. Every other similar bonus at least gets something else out of it like Delta Plus functionally gaining flight or Genion getting EN Regen. If Getter 2 and 3 weren't terrible it might be a different story but Getter 1 outclasses them even more than usual thanks to Ryouma's Ace Bonus and a post move ALL attack. Getter-2 all day every day. 
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Jan 24, 2015 17:14
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Hunter Noventa posted:Yeah I didn't even unlock the thing towards the end of the game myself, but I bought it and that extra cash was incredibly useful. Probably still would've purchased Ryouma's D-Extractor first if only because it lets him tear through everything so easily when you pair it along with his Ace and Black Getter's CB (10k+ ALL Getter Beams were the norm before even mission 20).
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Jan 24, 2015 17:50
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ShiunTouya posted:If they aren't nerfed in Tengoku, it's exactly what I'll do again. It's saying something that Z2-2 had SP Regen IIRC and it is considered a "meh" skill!
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Jan 24, 2015 18:02
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Time Prison went out of its way to transfer the standouts of Z2 (Chain Actions and SP Regen/Gain) into the Tag Command system, so they'll probably keep doing that.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:15
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Isn't the whole point of the Systems to give you ways to break them game over your knee and make your favourites even better? Given how easy it is to just not use them, I can't imagine them getting nerfed.
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Jan 25, 2015 12:02
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Modern super robot games always felt like they "Balance" things around no upgrades, at least the times I play the Z series the units are more pronounced in their strengths other than "robot #304503 that kills everything by itself."
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Jan 25, 2015 22:47
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Pretty much. SRW is very clearly at this point balanced around the idea you won't upgrade units or will do minimal upgrades. If you want a challenge that is the way to play and several units shine a lot more in low-upgrade games. If you upgrade the units become godkillers. It"s not a terrible idea for balance since it puts it completely in the player's hand but ti depends on how much you want to hold back intentionally.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:50
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I wish SRW had actual difficulty selection and you could outright tell the game to disable most upgrades and purchasable skills from the get go. Skill points are okay as side objectives but make for a terrible difficulty setting mechanic.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:59
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GimmickMan posted:I wish SRW had actual difficulty selection and you could outright tell the game to disable most upgrades and purchasable skills from the get go. Skill points are okay as side objectives but make for a terrible difficulty setting mechanic. The closest thing to this I've seen was in J, where in New Gmae+ you could set how tough the actual enemies were. But given that there were no skill points and you carried over ALL your upgrades on your units...the game didn't get much harder.
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Jan 26, 2015 01:24
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The same thing is in W, clear the game enough times and you could max out enemy upgrades. I guess doing no upgrade run several times to get that would give you the ultimate challenge.
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Jan 26, 2015 01:30
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GBA OGS2 had an option where enemies were tougher, you weren't allowed to upgrade units or pilot stats, and special abilities cost like twice as much. The only reason why that mode wasn't bullshit impossible was because PP carries over. On the other hand, it got really tedious in the 1st half of the game since so much of it is railroaded with forced deployment and no chance to buy abilities.
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Jan 26, 2015 01:44
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Honestly, I don't like that you have to challenge yourself using no-upgrade games. I like the strategic management of having to decide how best to divide your resources (Money, PP, items) amongst your units to get the best out of them, it's one of the things that make an RPG what it is. It would sort of be like challenging yourself beating like, a Final Fantasy game with only the game's starting sword or something - sure, it'll definitely technically be harder but it feels like you're losing something from the game by cutting out an entire mechanic. edit: And also, the way numbers upgrade nowadays, it seems rather hard to balance it for NUG play without making bosses/enemies extremely tedious (as seen in EX-Hard modes of a lot of SRW games)
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Jan 26, 2015 01:46
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Davzz posted:It would sort of be like challenging yourself beating like, a Final Fantasy game with only the game's starting sword or something - sure, it'll definitely technically be harder but it feels like you're losing something from the game by cutting out an entire mechanic.) Well... that is exactly how most people challenge themselves in Final Fantasy games because FF games also suffer from being super-easy if you use everything you have. No upgrade/low-level/ect runs are very common.
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Jan 26, 2015 01:56
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ImpAtom posted:Well... that is exactly how most people challenge themselves in Final Fantasy games because FF games also suffer from being super-easy if you use everything you have. No upgrade/low-level/ect runs are very common. That's kind of where I think SRW (or any good strategy RPG for that matter) should aim to be at. (First thing on balance that came to mind. If you only vaguely heard of FFT 1.3 and how masochistic it is, Content is an easier version of it that's still harder than the original)
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Jan 26, 2015 02:04
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Davzz posted:Well, I guess they do. But I'm just saying I would prefer something like FFT 1.3 Content balance where the game isn't easy enough that you can win the game with only 1 character, 1 class or starting equipment, where it's challenging but still leaves a lot of leeway on viable strategies and party composition. FFT 1.3 is made for fans of the game by fans of the game and was borderline unplayable for regular people who just wanted to enjoy the game. They rebalanced it somewhat (after complaining) but that isn't really the sort of thing that works for people who just want to see Kouji punch a Gundam or whatever. That's basically the big thing. SRW has to appeal to people who want to watch their favorite dudes fight as much (or even more than) it appeals to people who want a solid SRPG. Allowing people to customize the difficulty themselves is kinda the way to do that. It'd be better if they could tailor the difficulty more but that's sort of the problem with a wacky crossover fanservice game. It appeals to people who want the crossover but may not want overly-hard gameplay.
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Jan 26, 2015 02:21
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quote:Allowing people to customize the difficulty themselves is kinda the way to do that
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Jan 26, 2015 02:25
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SRW also has things like entirely optional bosses that don't have SR points or objectives attached to them. Again I haven't tried no upgrade playthroughs but is it possible to take all of them out with no upgrades at all? Obviously still getting the SR point and the stage clear conditions.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:03
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Lostconfused posted:Again I haven't tried no upgrade playthroughs but is it possible to take all of them out with no upgrades at all? Obviously still getting the SR point and the stage clear conditions.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:08
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Lostconfused posted:SRW also has things like entirely optional bosses that don't have SR points or objectives attached to them. It really depends on the game. In like Impact or Alpha/Alpha Gaiden, it depends on the enemy. You're not taking certain ones out without upgrading and using certain units. The later games tend to allow you to do it even without upgraded units as long as you're smart about it/not using horrifyingly underleveled units.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:09
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