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Microcline posted:The episode isn't supposed to have a simple, easy to digest moral message. We don't get a clean answer as to whether he made the "right" decision to end his marriage, and it's ultimately moot. The protagonist seeks the truth (which is held to be virtuous and liberating), but uncovers two truths that he is unable to reconcile--he loves his wife, but she may not love him. "The Fox and the Grapes" has the moral that cognitive dissonance is bad, but "The Entire History of You" is about how much of human happiness and functionality may be unattainable without it. I agree with you that Black Mirror works best when it explores human themes, but that's why Entire History of You fell flat for me. He had the intuition that his wife was cheating on him when he saw her at the party, and the rest of the story felt like a standard detective tale. The premise, though, that we all have magic boxes that can show other people the past, undermines the detective aspect -- I felt like anyone in that world who was wrongly accused would lose their temper and angrily replay their history with the person they were accused of cheating with to show their innocence. The opening sequence with the job interview suggests that these kind of "ethical reviews" are common enough, at least that a business and airport security can ask for them and not be objected to, so I don't think privacy concerns were much of a thing in this world. So it was an interesting bit of world-building, but as a human drama it didn't work for me. e: Thinking about it, I feel a bit the same about White Bear. It was a good horror story, but the voyeuristic aspect of it doesn't seem like something real people would do. fantastic in plastic fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 08:12
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Tao Jones posted:e: Thinking about it, I feel a bit the same about White Bear. It was a good horror story, but the voyeuristic aspect of it doesn't seem like something real people would do. The only thing separating White Bear from reality is one capricious judge and the currently non-existent mind-wiping technology. And a few odds and ends in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, I guess, but pfeh.
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Jan 20, 2015 13:22
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qntm posted:And a few odds and ends in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, I guess, but pfeh. I know this show is British but my impulse reaction to that is "like the loving UN is gonna stop us from doing what we want". Tao Jones posted:e: Thinking about it, I feel a bit the same about White Bear. It was a good horror story, but the voyeuristic aspect of it doesn't seem like something real people would do. It wasn't that long ago that tortures and executions of notorious criminals were public spectacles happily attended in our so-called civilized societies. Turning that into a kind of live-blogged theme park experience seems unfortunately all too plausible. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 13:56
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I think White Bear was a little over the top. There's kidnapping crimes all the time and most people barely care about vengeance on the criminal past incarceration or the death penalty. To have all these people not only support keeping this girl in a torture like setting for years on end, but to actually go and watch it like a theme park doesn't make sense for the time this is set in (which I'm assuming is anywhere between 2012 to 2030ish). Maybe in a dystopian future, but for England 10 years down the road I just don't see people becoming that bloodthirsty. But on the other hand the acting in White Bear was pretty great. I hated the main character throughout the entire episode because she was always uncontrollably sobbing and being useless, and then the reveal at the end made it make perfect sense.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:35
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The Toast uncovers a leaked list of the next few episodes.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:56
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withak posted:The Toast uncovers a leaked list of the next few episodes. This is great.
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Jan 20, 2015 18:11
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withak posted:The Toast uncovers a leaked list of the next few episodes. Looking forward to Raise High the Red String.
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Jan 20, 2015 18:12
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IT TURNS OUT IT'S MAN.
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Jan 20, 2015 18:43
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Edit: poo poo, left this open too long. Was replying to Doltos. It's not about realism, though. While you could (debatably) argue that "there's no way that this specific scenario could happen", the more salient point is that people nowadays (and apparently British people in particular?) enjoy the spectacle of hunting down and punishing a criminal. Whenever a kidnapping or murder happens, the media will obsess over it for days, anyone related to the victim will be scrutinized and instantly becomes a suspect, their lives destroyed in the process. People will go out of their way to let you know that "if I got my hands on that sicko I would cut his balls off", or "they should hang that bastard under a bridge", etc. On the other hand, you have this increasing phenomenon of people having camera on their hands all the time, always filming but rarely participating. I think Black Mirror is basically just taking all these elements and combining them into a story that while not 100% plausible, is plausible enough to make you pause and examine everything with a more critical stance. "Ok, this wouldn't happen, but how close enough to this do we have to get before we stop?". dpkg chopra fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 18:50
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Doltos posted:I think White Bear was a little over the top. There's kidnapping crimes all the time and most people barely care about vengeance on the criminal past incarceration or the death penalty. To have all these people not only support keeping this girl in a torture like setting for years on end, but to actually go and watch it like a theme park doesn't make sense for the time this is set in (which I'm assuming is anywhere between 2012 to 2030ish). Maybe in a dystopian future, but for England 10 years down the road I just don't see people becoming that bloodthirsty. You need to read some of the comments and editorials on the Bulger killers and Maxine Carr, which inform the episode a lot.
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Jan 20, 2015 19:22
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withak posted:The Toast uncovers a leaked list of the next few episodes. "what if phones, but too much" would be a good title for this thread
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Jan 20, 2015 19:55
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Tao Jones posted:I agree with you that Black Mirror works best when it explores human themes, but that's why Entire History of You fell flat for me. He had the intuition that his wife was cheating on him when he saw her at the party, and the rest of the story felt like a standard detective tale. The premise, though, that we all have magic boxes that can show other people the past, undermines the detective aspect -- I felt like anyone in that world who was wrongly accused would lose their temper and angrily replay their history with the person they were accused of cheating with to show their innocence. The opening sequence with the job interview suggests that these kind of "ethical reviews" are common enough, at least that a business and airport security can ask for them and not be objected to, so I don't think privacy concerns were much of a thing in this world. So it was an interesting bit of world-building, but as a human drama it didn't work for me. That's the point, if you could prove things all the time wouldn't you feel that you had too? Imagine what that would do to relationships. And as for Whit Bear are you from the UK? If you are you need to read the tabloids more.
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Jan 25, 2015 18:02
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withak posted:The Toast uncovers a leaked list of the next few episodes. The joke is that Black Mirror is actually excellent.
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Jan 25, 2015 18:09
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Sri.Theo posted:That's the point, if you could prove things all the time wouldn't you feel that you had too? Imagine what that would do to relationships. And as for Whit Bear are you from the UK? If you are you need to read the tabloids more. I'm American. We have plenty of people who think that prisoners are scum who don't deserve any rights or empathy, but when we hear about scandals of prisoners being mistreated, those kinds of people are more likely to say "eh, gently caress 'em anyway" and just tacitly approve of it rather than say they wish they could participate in it. The hypocrisy here is more that there are many people who are certain that guns and religion are protected in the Constitution but never speak up when it comes to the part where it forbids cruel and unusual punishment. If there was something specific to the UK being satirized in White Bear other than the obvious things about technology enabling sadistic voyeurism, it was over my head.
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Jan 25, 2015 19:12
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I think Americans would be the first to embrace the combination of celebrities, theme parks/zoos and warped justice, actually.
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Jan 30, 2015 03:11
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Speaking of America, a American Remake is in development. No word on whether Brooker's involved, although he has previously said that he intended to run any international versions of the show. HBO, AMC and Netflix have previously expressed interest in showing it. Personally I'm hoping for HBO.
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Jan 30, 2015 03:16
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Republican Vampire posted:Speaking of America, a American Remake is in development. No word on whether Brooker's involved, although he has previously said that he intended to run any international versions of the show. HBO, AMC and Netflix have previously expressed interest in showing it. Personally I'm hoping for HBO. Since its just an anthology show, It could work out that its not a remake so much as it is a continuation on another network
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Jan 30, 2015 03:45
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Yeah hopefully it is more like "HBO pays for the next batch of episodes instead of the BBC" instead of "the same episodes as before but with American accents".
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Jan 30, 2015 04:01
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The American version of White Bear should be that reality show that follows an honest-to-God militia that hunts down illegal Mexicans. Also, America already had a movie where a satirical news anchor runs for office and proves to be surprisingly popular so really Brooker is just late to the party if you think about it.
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Jan 30, 2015 04:22
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withak posted:Yeah hopefully it is more like "HBO pays for the next batch of episodes instead of the BBC" instead of "the same episodes as before but with American accents". Yeah. That's my hope. But they didn't mention whether Brooker would keep writing/running it.
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Jan 30, 2015 05:01
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withak posted:Yeah hopefully it is more like "HBO pays for the next batch of episodes instead of the BBC" instead of "the same episodes as before but with American accents". quote:The combined company’s slate of shows includes “The Biggest Loser,” “Big Brother,” “American Idol,” “MasterChef” and “Hell on Wheels.” There are a few American stations that I would trust to produce thoughtful television, this isn't one of them. Unless this company is brave enough to satirize themselves, I predict lukewarm regurgitated poo poo designed to squeeze out a quick buck on name recognition. I hope I'm wrong though.
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Jan 30, 2015 05:02
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Svaha posted:Unless this company is brave enough to satirize themselves, I predict lukewarm regurgitated poo poo designed to squeeze out a quick buck on name recognition. I hope I'm wrong though. That's the production company, not the channel, and it's the US Arm of the same company that made the UK version. They're still looking for a channel, and HBO, AMC and Netflix are the ones that've expressed interest in the past according to EW.
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Jan 30, 2015 05:14
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I honestly don't care at all for an American Black Mirror. The series is loving brilliant, as is casting, direction, and story. Unless Brooker is directly involved, I can't see it getting any better. vvvv Thank God. Wake_N_Bake fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 06:17
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http://www.avclub.com/article/american-version-black-mirror-works-214546quote:Brooker has said in the past that he intends to serve as showrunner on any foreign adaptations of the series.
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Jan 30, 2015 06:18
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How will they be able to show something like 50M M on US television, even on HBO.
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Jan 30, 2015 13:03
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ufarn posted:How will they be able to show something like 50M M on US television, even on HBO. The left wing will see it as a scathing critique of the status quo and the right wing will laud it as a visionary portrayal of American Capitalism, everybody wins.
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Jan 30, 2015 13:10
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ufarn posted:How will they be able to show something like 50M M on US television, even on HBO. Have you ever seen HBO? 50MM would be mild compared to some of their programming.
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Jan 30, 2015 17:00
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Wake_N_Bake posted:Have you ever seen HBO? 50MM would be mild compared to some of their programming. Only change would be softcore porn in the adverts people are forced to watch.
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Jan 30, 2015 17:02
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Plucky Brit posted:Only change would be softcore porn in the adverts people are forced to watch. No, that wouldn't change, either.
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Jan 30, 2015 18:41
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I just wrapped up the series. It's amazing and I crave more long-form British television (Yes, I'm an American) like this. The acting and writing are top-notch. My favorites: 1. 15 Million Merits 2. White Bear 3. White Christmas 4. The National Anthem 5. Be Right Back 6. The Entire History of You 7. The Waldo Moment I'm also trying to get people around me into the show. What episodes would you goons recommend for a younger crowd (trying to show it to 16-year old neighbors who are pretty mature, as well as 20-30-something co-workers) and an older crowd (parents, grandparents, etc.)? Thanks, all.
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Feb 4, 2015 05:34
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Doltos posted:I think White Bear was a little over the top. There's kidnapping crimes all the time and most people barely care about vengeance on the criminal past incarceration or the death penalty. To have all these people not only support keeping this girl in a torture like setting for years on end, but to actually go and watch it like a theme park doesn't make sense for the time this is set in (which I'm assuming is anywhere between 2012 to 2030ish). Maybe in a dystopian future, but for England 10 years down the road I just don't see people becoming that bloodthirsty. Am I the only one who thought the fake premise of White Bear was more interesting than the actual one revealed in the twist ending?
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Feb 4, 2015 06:58
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Barry Convex posted:Am I the only one who thought the fake premise of White Bear was more interesting than the actual one revealed in the twist ending? I'm sure you're not the only one but to me it felt a bit stale and prosaic. I was happy that the twist was both suitably different than what came before it, and that it was appreciably horrifying in a more clever way.
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Feb 4, 2015 07:12
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Just started watching this show and holy poo poo Fifteen Million Merits maybe the most horrifyingly cynical piece of television I have ever witnessed. I haven't had that strong of an emotional reaction to a piece of television in months, maybe years. It's terrifying, especially as someone in tech, after all this is the future we are all so desperately trying to bring about, isn't it. I like this show a lot, I am going to force all of my friends and family to watch it.'
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Feb 4, 2015 09:29
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Wake_N_Bake posted:No, that wouldn't change, either. I mean that the sex would be more graphic, not less.
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Feb 4, 2015 10:32
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Talorat posted:Just started watching this show and holy poo poo Fifteen Million Merits maybe the most horrifyingly cynical piece of television I have ever witnessed. I haven't had that strong of an emotional reaction to a piece of television in months, maybe years. It's terrifying, especially as someone in tech, after all this is the future we are all so desperately trying to bring about, isn't it. We're already there... 
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Feb 4, 2015 11:33
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Talorat posted:Just started watching this show and holy poo poo Fifteen Million Merits maybe the most horrifyingly cynical piece of television I have ever witnessed. I haven't had that strong of an emotional reaction to a piece of television in months, maybe years. It's terrifying, especially as someone in tech, after all this is the future we are all so desperately trying to bring about, isn't it. Having watched all of the I have to say its this one that gave me nightmares, primarily the part where the MC being forced to watch the woman he loves and respects being raped while while in a drugged stupor she repeats the same thing over and over again... 
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Feb 4, 2015 11:34
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Zorglorfian posted:I just wrapped up the series. It's amazing and I crave more long-form British television (Yes, I'm an American) like this. The acting and writing are top-notch. It depends. I've shown it to a few people adopting the strategy that was used to expose me to it ("It's from the UK, it's called Black Mirror, don't watch it if there are children around, I won't tell you anything else about it"). The first two episodes, more than the rest, really rub your face in poo poo and I think they lose some of their effectiveness if you're prepped for how Black Mirror tells stories. But because they rub your face in poo poo, some people have a negative reaction to it and don't watch the whole series. (I wonder what the experience of watching The National Anthem out of order is. I think it would be only an OK episode if you went into it with some idea of how Black Mirror plays with your expectations.)
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Feb 4, 2015 17:23
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Tao Jones posted:It depends. I've shown it to a few people adopting the strategy that was used to expose me to it ("It's from the UK, it's called Black Mirror, don't watch it if there are children around, I won't tell you anything else about it"). The first two episodes, more than the rest, really rub your face in poo poo and I think they lose some of their effectiveness if you're prepped for how Black Mirror tells stories. But because they rub your face in poo poo, some people have a negative reaction to it and don't watch the whole series. I watched National Anthem + 15 Million Merits in one sitting when I first discovered Black Mirror and really liked them, so I told a close friend (who I forgot doesn't like scary movies/TV shows) to check them out. The next night, I got a text: "I'm watching a show with a prime minister and a pig? Is this the right show?" followed by "Is he going to do it?" followed a phone call from her crying. She said "I can't believe you thought I would like this show, that was loving horrible", hung up, and was genuinely angry at me for a few days. She got over it but it's definitely made me pause before recommending Black Mirror to other people.
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Feb 4, 2015 18:28
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Is there a non torrenting way to watch the Christmas Special in the US yet??
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Feb 4, 2015 21:58
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Murmur Twin posted:I watched National Anthem + 15 Million Merits in one sitting when I first discovered Black Mirror and really liked them, so I told a close friend (who I forgot doesn't like scary movies/TV shows) to check them out. The next night, I got a text: Yeah, my experience was roughly similar to this, though my friend made it through 15 Million Merits before telling me she felt like she needed a bath and wasn't going to watch the rest of the episodes. So I'm a little circumspect about recommending it to friends. I think it's a testament to how effective the show is that people have that reaction -- I doubt that any celebrated show from recent years could literally reduce people to tears -- but I totally understand where it comes from. I wouldn't describe the show to someone else as a "satire" since in the US I think that word tends to imply "funny" or "making fun of powerful people" whereas Black Mirror is absolutely vicious toward everyday society. The "safe" approach to the show is probably to show someone The Entire History of You or White Christmas. I think they're the most non-threatening episodes in that I think they're most about the consequences of the technology in them rather than pointing out that humanity is awful. (I feel like Be Right Back is like this too, in that it's not about how people are awful. But grief is such a personal theme that I think recommending it to someone who I didn't know extremely well would not be a wise decision.)
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Feb 5, 2015 03:00
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