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Deakul posted:I guess expecting an argument about the show was too much to ask for, keep on irrationally hating stuff without giving valid reasons, kids. Have you no shame? There are young boys in Africa literally starving -- to see Kim Kardashian's rear end which, chances are, they'll never see! And here you are complaining that a few goons won't watch your lovely show that takes 17 episodes to become mediocre. You don't see me complaining when people poo poo on my favorite show: 5 am Girls Gone Wild infomercial. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 31, 2015 17:30
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I thought Deadpool told Ravane to gently caress off the other day?
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Jan 31, 2015 17:41
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Ravane on January 25th posted:Alright, alright. Final post then. No more trolling, no more posting for a month for me. Couldn't even make it to February 
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Jan 31, 2015 17:54
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See you next month.
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Sir Kodiak posted:I can't give you exact numbers, but my impression is that most TV shows, nearly all of them really, aren't allowed to use Marvel's intellectual property. Uh, yes? What does that have to actually do with anything?
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Jan 31, 2015 19:40
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xeria posted:Uh, yes? What does that have to actually do with anything? That, shockingly, there are many shows on TV that don't have to use Marvel licensing as a crutch to keep them from being a piece of poo poo. I think it's pretty hilarious that people will accept "no guys, see it HAD to be a piece of poo poo, they couldn't possibly have made an interesting show without cross-media promotions!" as a actual talking point that you're not supposed to laugh at.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:47
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It's not complicated to understand. Marvel didn't allow them to write certain things, but they certainly didn't force them to write most of the lovely things they did. Marvel wasn't pushing to have The Blizzard introduced to the universe. Humbug Scoolbus posted:Fusco gets his hero moment in Season 3 and it is amazing. Which moment is that?
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Jan 31, 2015 20:09
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raditts posted:That, shockingly, there are many shows on TV that don't have to use Marvel licensing as a crutch to keep them from being a piece of poo poo. I read his quote as him trying to make a joke about how tv shows don't have access to Marvel IP rather than him trying to say that the show is lovely because the show is lovely, regardless of IP constraints. "Most shows" versus "most terrible shows".
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Jan 31, 2015 20:11
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Nah, raditts got it. It was a joke about how dumb it is to use a lack of access to all of Marvel's IP as an excuse when most shows can use none of it. Like, maybe the X-Files would have been better if they could have incorporated D-tier comic book superheroes, but they certainly didn't need it.
Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 20:28
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Aphrodite posted:It's not complicated to understand. End of The Devil's Share, tho him breaking his thumb to get out of his cuffs and strangle the fucker in the Crossing is pretty dope, it's not very heroic.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:28
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raditts posted:Wait, Laurel doesn't rank in there anywhere?! I don't expect much from her anymore, and her trying to be a hero and consistently getting the poo poo kicked out of her is loving HILARIOUS. That's one of the few good calls the producers have made, not letting her be remotely competent at crimefighting. So I'm kind of grading on a curve. Laurel for me now is providing more actual enjoyment than Felicity or Diggle. And Roy is somehow now the best? at least we have Vinnie Jones. 
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Jan 31, 2015 20:35
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Sir Kodiak posted:Nah, raditts got it. It was a joke about how dumb it is to use a lack of access to all of Marvel's IP as an excuse when most shows can use none of it. Like, maybe the X-Files would have been better if they could have incorporated D-tier comic book superheroes, but they certainly didn't need it. It doesn't excuse a lack of quality, no, but I think it's pretty fair to say that being beholden to a multi-billion dollar movie franchise/universe in what you can/can't depict on your tv show is a obstacle in and of itself, one that isn't really shared with any of the other currently-airing comic book shows (aside from Agent Carter, obviously). It'd probably also be pretty fair to say that if Agents of SHIELD (or Agents of Generic-Acronym) launched in the same early season 1 quality but without the Marvel tie-in/backing, it wouldn't have had the viewership ratings it DID have (to start) and would've been cancelled quickly/quietly.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:07
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Zaggitz posted:End of The Devil's Share, tho him breaking his thumb to get out of his cuffs and strangle the fucker in the Crossing is pretty dope, it's not very heroic. It's my kind of heroic.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:07
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xeria posted:It doesn't excuse a lack of quality, no, but I think it's pretty fair to say that being beholden to a multi-billion dollar movie franchise/universe in what you can/can't depict on your tv show is a obstacle in and of itself, one that isn't really shared with any of the other currently-airing comic book shows (aside from Agent Carter, obviously). It's a relatively novel situation - though it's not like the DC TV shows can use Superman and such - but the association has been more of a benefit than an obstacle. Despite the repeated claim, it's not that the show could only get better once Cap 2 came out. It's that the show got better once someone else came up with a fun story (people finally noticing that SHIELD is a hosed-up organization) and they were allowed to borrow it. Basically everything good about the show has been either what they were lucky enough to steal from a good movie or Kyle MacLachlan. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 21:46
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You guys seem to be confused, surely Agents of Shield is a good show.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:01
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A friend of mine who I usually respect just tweeted about how much he enjoys Agents of SHIELD and likes the characters and everything. He's only five episodes in.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:04
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Sir Kodiak posted:It's a relatively novel situation - though it's not like the DC TV shows can use Superman and such - but the association has been more of a benefit than an obstacle. Despite the repeated claim by some, it's not that the show could only get better once Cap 2 came out. It's that the show got better once someone else came up with a fun story (people finally noticing that SHIELD is a hosed-up organization) and they were allowed to borrow it. Basically everything good about the show has been either what they were lucky enough to steal from a good movie or Kyle MacLachlan. Given the timing, it seems pretty likely that by the time initial scripting on the tv show pilot began, everyone involved would have (or should have) known what'd happen in Cap 2. The bigger failing in my mind isn't that they treaded water for 17 episodes before they seemingly could dive into the storyline they actually wanted to do, but that they spent 16+ episodes on largely undercooked characters. Removing Cap 2 and the greater MCU from the equation, it would've been entirely possible to have a "ragtag team learns to work together over x amount of time and then SUDDENLY BETRAYAL!" storyline entirely within the framework of the show, but the way it's done in AoS felt like the writers' kept going, "Yeah, yeah, build team, FitzSimmons, Ward stuff, whatever whatever, are we at the betrayal part yet?! Oh, still a few more episodes? Okay, let's seed some more Coulson stuff then." Like they weren't interested in their own characters pre-betrayal because everything they've really wanted to do with them hinged on that episode, on Ward loving over the team and Coulson being forced to take up directorship of an entirely underground SHIELD. It has improved since they started digging into the storylines they probably had wanted to from the get-go, but that's still 15-16 episodes worth of a black mark against it, and I'm still fighting to be invested in characters in which it doesn't especially feel like the creative team had been entirely invested themselves. In that approach, I think I agree with you that having to be heavily tied to the MCU isn't the reason the show stumbled around for several episodes, nor is it an excuse for shoddy writing and it's certainly not remotely the biggest issue I've had with it (as someone whose Marvel knowledge is almost entirely comprised of the MCU). It's an obstacle, but it's not the biggest one that the show's faced in getting to the point where it is today.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:07
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The thing with being under Marvel's strict supervision was, it wasn't that they couldn't reference random D-list supercharacter (and this was kind of a bullshit thing that kept coming up in early discussion)- rather I think that because they had a Big Status-Quo Altering Event coming up in Winter Soldier, the showrunners were told to maintain a holding pattern until then, don't go too crazy, they need to be around for the big betrayal to take place. Now obviously, even with that restriction it could have been done better- I think a real problem was that the initial status quo (going around the world and chasing random bits of alien tech before bad guys use it for bad things) was kind of dull to start with, even by the standards of an espionage/action series it felt too small and limited. And they could have started messing with the characters beforehand so long as Ward was still around for the big reveal. But Winter Soldier gave them permission to have things actually start happening now, and with the next few Marvel movies not really having anything to do with SHIELD per se it seems like they now have more freedom.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:10
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Bown posted:A friend of mine who I usually respect just tweeted about how much he enjoys Agents of SHIELD and likes the characters and everything. sever all ties Regy Rusty posted:It's my kind of heroic. to this day my favorite post in any of the PoI threads is you going"Oh no who's gonna save Fusco???" followed by "HE JUST SAVED HIMSELF BECAUSE HE IS AN INCREDIBLE BADASS."
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Jan 31, 2015 22:19
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Zaggitz posted:to this day my favorite post in any of the PoI threads is you going"Oh no who's gonna save Fusco???" followed by "HE JUST SAVED HIMSELF BECAUSE HE IS AN INCREDIBLE BADASS." drat now I wanna watch that episode again. What a night that was.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:39
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I need a show to be recommended to me. My wife and I are currently watching parenthood and the west wing on Netflix. I prefer the latter, she the former but other shows we have had in common are Oz, Lost, Being Human and the Walking dead. We both tried and hated The Shield and SoA. she won't watch superhero shows and I won't do procedural cop shows.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:00
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Pillowpants posted:I need a show to be recommended to me. Watch Person of Interest
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Jan 31, 2015 23:09
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Pillowpants posted:I need a show to be recommended to me. Have you watched Friday Night Lights by any chance? I THINK I've seen you in one of the old threads, but on the off-chance I'm remembering wrong, it's from the creator/developer of Parenthood and it has probably the best "idealistic elder-statesman" lead of an ensemble (Eric Taylor) since Jed Bartlett. So it's got something for both of you. EDIT: And it's on Netflix, easy to catch up on. PoI won't be up there until fall. (But once it is, you should totally jump on that.) DivisionPost fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 23:25
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xeria posted:they treaded water for 17 episodes before they seemingly could dive into the storyline they actually wanted to do, If I'm a writer, I'd much rather work with a bunch of sexy secret agents going on cool adventures on behalf of an organization with unlimited resources and a rich backstory than a handful of dudes hanging out in Coulsen's basement struggling with autism and crying about their daddies. But then, that's just me.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:41
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Pillowpants posted:My wife and I are currently watching parenthood and the west wing on Netflix. Gilmore Girls is Lauren Graham from Parenthood with script lengths that rival West Wing. It's excellent, if you've ever passed it by because of the name - you've missed out.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:44
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Irish Joe posted:If I'm a writer, I'd much rather work with a bunch of sexy secret agents going on cool adventures on behalf of an organization with unlimited resources and a rich backstory than a handful of dudes hanging out in Coulsen's basement struggling with autism and crying about their daddies. It's actually pretty good, you should probably watch it, even just an episode or two, you might like it.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:55
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HorseRenoir posted:I stopped watching AOS at the end of Season 1 because the show didn't really improve at all, it just made some cosmetic changes that somewhat hid the show's problems. The show still had uninspired directing, trite dialogue, and one-dimensional characters; the introduction of an actual serial plot, Marvel namedrops, and a complete character rewrite felt like distractions to hide from that crippling writing flaw. I think the biggest hurdle to me for enjoying the "new and improved" AOS was that the show kept expecting me to care and have an emotional connection to the characters, despite the first 17 episodes not doing a thing to make any of them interesting or likeable. I remember when it was cool to be a chin stroker too. These days, it's just called being a hipster. It's not jazz mate, either watch it or don't. But trying to be a funny assassin is 
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Feb 1, 2015 00:20
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Irish Joe posted:If I'm a writer, I'd much rather work with a bunch of sexy secret agents going on cool adventures on behalf of an organization with unlimited resources and a rich backstory than a handful of dudes hanging out in Coulsen's basement struggling with autism and crying about their daddies. I am very sad that you are not a Whedon.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:37
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"Hmm my special snowflake of a show with all these not completely obvious glaring problems is totally not a bad show and I will defend every perceived or real complaint about it to the bitter end instead of just admitting to myself that sometimes I just like really bad TV shows" - every TVIV poster that doesn't have a Sleepy Hollow av
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Feb 1, 2015 01:15
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Quality is not entirely objective and you can think a show has flaws and is good regardless instead of thinking "it's objectively bad" like that's a thing.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:17
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Midnight City posted:"Hmm my special snowflake of a show with all these not completely obvious glaring problems is totally not a bad show and I will defend every perceived or real complaint about it to the bitter end instead of just admitting to myself that sometimes I just like really bad TV shows" - every TVIV poster that doesn't have a Sleepy Hollow av But..... Sleepy Hollow hasn't been that good this season
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Feb 1, 2015 01:18
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AoS defenders are simply people who haven't watched POI yet.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:54
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I watch and enjoy both, this argument is stupid as hell.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:55
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Sober posted:AoS defenders are simply people who haven't watched POI yet. I like them both very much. Though obviously POI is better, but there is in fact room for me to like multiple television shows. I also don't really care too much about whether shows I like are better than shows other people like.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:57
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Sober posted:AoS defenders are simply people who haven't watched POI yet. Both brilliant shows. Although PoI did have a tough first season to get through, but since then it's been great.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:58
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If you want to talk about SHIELD take it to the SHIELD thread. Unless you want to talk about how your taste is better than everyone else's. If you want to talk about that find a different forum because that poo poo is getting old. If you want to talk about why you do or don't like a show go for it. But knock off the useless arguments over taste. Nobody cares and all it does is cause pages and pages of worthless posts.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:37
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Deadpool posted:Nobody cares and all it does is cause pages and pages of worthless posts. This is why I don't post very often. My opinion hardly matters in my regular life and matters even less on the internet.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:52
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AOS is not a good show, but it is a show that I watch and derive some enjoyment from. I'm kinda baffled at how some people here have decided to pretend it's anything more than semi-competent escapism. Bill Paxton was great on it, though, and Kyle Maclachlan owns all of the bones that there are. and Adrianne Palicki is stunningly beautiful, as is the actress that plays Simmons. Pillowpants posted:I need a show to be recommended to me. do you have Amazon Prime? Prime has The Good Wife. That sounds like something you both might enjoy. I also kind of liked Damages, which is on Netflix. It's very uneven, but it has some high highs. also watch Fringe.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:53
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Deadpool posted:If you want to talk about SHIELD take it to the SHIELD thread. Unless you want to talk about how your taste is better than everyone else's. If you want to talk about that find a different forum because that poo poo is getting old. If you want to talk about why you do or don't like a show go for it. But knock off the useless arguments over taste. Nobody cares and all it does is cause pages and pages of worthless posts. I regret making it an issue because everyone arguing seems to have fundamentally different opinions and no way to express them besides "no you're stupid" and I just wanted to say that Arrow was a good show. Midnight City posted:"Hmm my special snowflake of a show with all these not completely obvious glaring problems is totally not a bad show and I will defend every perceived or real complaint about it to the bitter end instead of just admitting to myself that sometimes I just like really bad TV shows" - every TVIV poster that doesn't have a Sleepy Hollow av Unless that back 1/3 of Sleepy Hollow gets us back to the balls to the wall insanity that was season 1 at its best, SH is running the risk of cancellation by season 3. I love Sleepy Hollow, but this season has been hard to watch for several reasons. Katrina, blonde vagrant guy, wasting John Noble's talent, and the Headless horseman being neutered as a character. The show has hemorrhaged viewers too, so they clearly need to change something. Zaggitz posted:sever all ties I love the progression of Fusco. At first he's a barely competent corrupt cop that they lean on for help, by season 3 he's rolling up with fully auto machine guns to help an extraction. The episode where he (by himself) has to protect that Ukrainian model was amazing, and I only wish it had been a full b-plot rather then quick cuts to him and her in the midst of chaos and gunfire. Then the writers realized what made Fusco great and perfected the character. I might've already mentioned it, but most of season 1 was really grim and humorless, and by season 2 there's tons of hilarious moments and Fusco is usually the go-to guy for the comedic bits. Also, Bear. Bear is the absolute best TV character I've ever seen, and possibly the most well trained dog ever. pentyne fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Feb 1, 2015 |
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Feb 1, 2015 02:54
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Jingleheimer posted:This is why I don't post very often. My opinion hardly matters in my regular life and matters even less on the internet. I mean, I do like hearing people's opinions. People's opinions help me decide on trying new shows or deciding that a show doesn't sound like my cup of tea. But yeah, pages long arguments about whether a show is "objectively good/bad" can get annoying.
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Feb 1, 2015 03:15
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Yeah in the end everyone should be able to like whatever they want. Even Big Bang Theory. Not Two and a Half Men, though. That's the line.
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Feb 1, 2015 03:35
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