Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007
Grimey Drawer
FM We're nearly to the point where we'll be able to make these things.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DCBomB
Sep 14, 2008

Task Manager posted:

Unless I am misremembering a post, we agreed with Ishamal we would not knowingly invoke arrow time. At all. So...

Changing from E to B.

Before someone chimes in that its the end of the world - I get it. However, we promised. I fear the repercussions from Ishamal more than if this one fishguy lives.

Unless someone finds a post where Ish told us we could use arrow time sparingly, we shouldn't use it. Especially not on some general. Say we kill him. Whoop dee do. A little morale hit, one less assholes of thousands.

Ishamal said Mercy Is Never Misplaced.

Well wouldn't it be a whole lot more merciful to shoot these guys in the brain instead of the gut or the lung? (Not to mention merciful for all the humans we'll save by killing more of these things faster)

GO

RandomPauI
Nov 24, 2006


Grimey Drawer
B, M

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Lanky Coconut Tree posted:

you know what else that could mean?

Rimush is dying

That's a possibility, but I don't think that's the case.

Then again, I was kinda expecting Fishdad to get a little more desperate sounding by now to get us to go Evil for him, or at least ramp up the monstrous hordes, rather than have them try to hang back.

BHB
Aug 28, 2011

the_steve posted:

That's a possibility, but I don't think that's the case.

Then again, I was kinda expecting Fishdad to get a little more desperate sounding by now to get us to go Evil for him, or at least ramp up the monstrous hordes, rather than have them try to hang back.

if they can get in and smash the altar i think that's a pretty major victory for them right there

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
Friends, when we got our Battle-Boost from the dudes upstairs, we were explicitly told that we're currently able/allowed to use arrow-time.

Let's use arrow-time specifically to KO the general. Take 5 normal-arrow shots. We can save the bronze arrows for later. (We need to go back to Baitel and buy a shitload more sometime)



Hopefully when Rimush KO's the Demon In Charge, all the undead will collapse.

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Feb 4, 2015

RadicalR
Jan 20, 2008

"Businessmen are the symbol of a free society
---
the symbol of America."

Diogines posted:

Tool = took. Fixed.

Tell us how you REALLY feel about us.

Ouroborus
Mar 31, 2010

I really only come here for the Paradise Lost: Clash of the Heavens CYOA these days.
SA was one of the first websites I ever frequented, waaaaay back in the day. I only got off my ass and got an account about 8 years ago. I bought the platinum upgrade recently.

Tomn posted:

Because the vision we saw was of something so big it caused the earth to shake. As the superhero Mayor of Tokyo, would you rather hold a wrestling match with Godzilla in downtown Tokyo or some uninhabited plains? Remember, too, that Tudiya's own modus operandi was to march just outside the city, well within sight of it, to challenge the bad guys. He wasn't rushing out into the far unknown, just getting a little breathing room to charge in.

As an aside, something to remember: Ibleam keeps getting bought up as an example of where faith allowed the impossible, even the suicidal, to happen. And it's true Ibleam looked impossible and suicidal...but it WASN'T just that.

Ibleam was also an act of high compassion and righteousness. It was fighting to defend those who had no other way to defend themselves, throwing away our lives for a chance at preserving theirs at a time when they could count on nobody and nothing else to save them from certain doom. It was, in short, almost unquestionably a morally good deed - such as is looked on with favor by El.

What good deed do we serve by charging into the army? What cause of righteousness do we serve any better compared to staying on the walls? What compassion is being excited by our going Rambo? It may be badass, but badass is all it is - it is not likely to be looked upon with quite as much favor as saving the innocents of Ibleam did.
If I were the super mayor of Tokyo I would wrestle Godzilla in the plain, but I wouldn't think to say "It is too dangerous to fight him here." unless the idea to actually fight him in the city occurred to me. Anyway, by charging the enemy line we'll introduce chaos into the enemy's ranks. Even normal humans have prevailed against hundred to one odds by being screaming lunatics.
For instance this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Smith

Ouroborus fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Feb 4, 2015

I ride bikes all day
Sep 10, 2007

I shitposted in the same thread for 2 years and all I got was this red text av. Ask me about my autism!



College Slice

Speleothing posted:

Friends, when we got our Battle-Boost from the dudes upstairs, we were explicitly told that we're currently able/allowed to use arrow-time.


Nope. See last 10 pages of "we have no idea who modified Og, and we were explicitly told nothing except when Ish said no magic ever unless he signs off first."

Mr Apollo
Jan 1, 2013
Sure, they''ll be surprised by our idiocy for the whole three seconds it takes the enemy general to order them to swarm us. For any charge to be successful it would certainly have to happen after he is already dead and cannot coordinate a defense.

Aades
Nov 28, 2005

Guns Up!


:siren::siren:


Vote count is up (courtesy of HiHo).


:siren::siren:

edit: linked HiHo's sweet spreadsheet

Aades fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Feb 5, 2015

Diogines
Dec 22, 2007

Beaky the Tortoise says, click here to join our choose Your Own Adventure Game!

Paradise Lost: Clash of the Heavens!

 Several people on IRC seemed confused about #2. I reread #2 very carefully. It makes sense. Really. It is fine, in the context of our game. However several people on IRC seemed confused by the usage of the word "that". I am honestly not sure if they were confused or just screwing with me. I really would have rather answered questions, really, but making sure the votes make sense come first so I wasted time on that instead.

I have rewritten #2, which was previously written in plain and simple English so as to remove any confusion over the usage of the word "that".

The meaning of the question and the meaning of the options have not changed, even if they are needlessly long and detailed. I like to keep the questions as short as possible since we often run through a a long list of slightly different choices. I don't think anyone who has passed middle school English should need to reconsider their votes, but if you need to, do so. It is below, I edited the two previous references also.


2. You previously voted to bind yourself in the future to a promise to not use certain powers or experiment. To override that promise, you need the support of 80% of Goons. Do you continue to not use certain powers or experiment?
M. I continue to not use certain powers or "experiment" If 21% of Goons pick this, you will not use any "supernatural" abilities in this battle.




N. I am ending my former pledge to not use certain powers or "experiment". If I want to use them in the future and a majority of goons vote to do so, I will.

O. I am ending my former pledge to not use certain powers or "experiment" but ONLY for this battle. I will be able to use arrow-time and other "powers" for this battle, but after this battle is over I continue to not use such powers.

P. I am ending my former pledge to not use certain powers or "experiment" but ONLY for this vote. I will be able to use arrow-time and other "powers" for this one vote, but after this one vote is over I continue to not use such powers.





If 21 > (100 - 80) is confusing, that is a middle school math problem, not English.

Diogines fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Feb 4, 2015

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Bularin posted:

We were explicitly told nothing except when Ish said no magic ever unless he signs off first.

This is incorrect. See the relevant conversation with Ish and the melachim above.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Ouroborus posted:

If I were the super mayor of Tokyo I would wrestle Godzilla in the plain, but I wouldn't think to say "It is too dangerous to fight him here." unless the idea to actually fight him in the city occurred to me. Anyway, by charging the enemy line we'll introduce chaos into the enemy's ranks. Even normal humans have prevailed against hundred to one odds by being screaming lunatics.
For instance this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Smith

The thing is, if a gigantic demon is having a wrestling match with a superman, are they going to politely agree not to fight or wrassle or throw each other in such a way that they fall onto the city? They're going to be throwing themselves all over the landscape, and where's the guarantee that they'll land anywhere EXCEPT the city itself...unless you took the fight a long way away? C'mon, look at how far Tudiya went from the city to fight minotaur armies. Now transpose an enormous, earthshaking monster onto that. Is the city really so far away that there won't be collateral damage from an all-out, no-holds-barred battle?

As for chaos, normal humans have actually prevailed by being screaming lunatics...when conditions were juuuuust right. In most other cases those screaming lunatics received posthumous awards at best, if they were noticed at all. More importantly, Plan Ark isn't just voting for a quick charge to gently caress people up - it's voting to charge and fight pretty much the entire enemy army single-handedly until victory is achieved (since there's no such thing as "quickly" charging through an entire army to get at a general in the back. However much of a badass Ernst Smith or any other war hero you care to mention is, I doubt they'd be willing to charge the Wehrmacht or even an Army Group alone, and even if they were willing they're definitely not walking away if they don't intend to retreat sooner or later.

Successful Businessmanga
Mar 28, 2010




There's been one for a while :shobon: HiHo has been on it too :(.

I ride bikes all day
Sep 10, 2007

I shitposted in the same thread for 2 years and all I got was this red text av. Ask me about my autism!



College Slice

Mr Apollo posted:

Sure, they''ll be surprised by our idiocy for the whole three seconds it takes the enemy general to order them to swarm us. For any charge to be successful it would certainly have to happen after he is already dead and cannot coordinate a defense.

It's a great plan if you're in a Chinese Wire-Fu film. Which we aren't. Which the DM had reiterated in the last 5 pages. Twice.

Nolaterif
Jan 10, 2003

I changed my vote on 1 from Plan Ark to F.

Aades
Nov 28, 2005

Guns Up!



Ooohh, shiny.

Successful Businessmanga
Mar 28, 2010

Aades posted:

Ooohh, shiny.

Yeah it's a neat alteration of the template haha, stealing it for my own use later :v:.

Affi
Dec 18, 2005

Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA
I distinctly remember my vote being "lie to ishamal"

I knew the day would come where we would break our promise. That day is here for me. Part of me feels we have permission. Another part is like "I would do this even if Ish stood next to us saying we shouldn't"

GO

I ride bikes all day
Sep 10, 2007

I shitposted in the same thread for 2 years and all I got was this red text av. Ask me about my autism!



College Slice

There Bias Two posted:

This is incorrect. See the relevant conversation with Ish and the melachim above.

He literally said "no more magic unless I say it's ok." So unless Don Ishamal or one of the Zepathan Protection Agency descends to tell us "it's cool, bro" we'd be breaking our word. And we wouldn't want to break our word, would we?

WhiteOutMouse
Jul 29, 2010

:wom: will blow your mind.
Diog, what happens when people vote for the arrow time option in #1, but then vote for the "keep the vow, no powers" in #2? Some people think that is a contradiction.

Some people think that arrow-time is a forbidden power, others agree except for now because of the implied permission in our senses and that message in blue font. Diog, your thoughts?

Bularin posted:

Nope. See last 10 pages of "we have no idea who modified Og, and we were explicitly told nothing except when Ish said no magic ever unless he signs off first."
I admit, for the last few pages I assumed you were joking but the more you say these things the more I realize I don't agree with your view of the situation at all. That is fine I suppose, we are not all supposed to think the same way, that would make it WAY to easy for Diog to update. It would go a lot faster though. :allears:

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Diogines posted:

If 21 > (100 - 80) is confusing, that is a middle school math problem, not English.

Still too complicated for me.
Respectfully requesting that you phrase all votes as
A. Do good thing.
or
B. Do bad thing.

In order to spare me any confusion.

Dog Kisser
Mar 30, 2005

But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.
2m

Let's be good boys and girls and follow the spirit of the law

Amazed
Dec 29, 2009
GO

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

WhiteOutMouse posted:

Diog, what happens when people vote for the arrow time option in #1, but then vote for the "keep the vow, no powers" in #2? Some people think that is a contradiction.

Diogines posted:

I don't know yet what happens if using arrow time wins vote 1 but not vote 2. Probably a revote tonight?

OfChristandMen
Feb 14, 2006

GENERIC CANDY AVATAR #2
So it looks like over 21 people voted for M, which means we'd need more than 100 people in total to vote for N/O/P to be able to use Arrowtime.

(Which is fine, I get it, promises and all).

But then for question 1, G is winning... where we want to use Arrowtime...

:psyboom:

Enkidel is one messed up, bipolar person.

I blame goons.

Absum
May 28, 2013

Well yeah, a lot of people voted GM because the second vote was confusing. Don't tell me they all didn't read properly I will stab you.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
If you guys want to make unalterable actions like chopping off our balls and agreeing to Never Do Cool poo poo Again, Asherah-drat-it, I'm going to make sure you hold yourselves to it. Even if I have to vote to Not Do Cool poo poo to do so. :argh:


Also, how was Question 2 confusing? The first version of the question was clear. Do you want to break your promise? YES/NO? If Yes, for how long?

Hobo
Dec 12, 2007

Forum bum
M

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


Now that I better understand Question 2 I'll vote P

I don't really want to deplete our reserves of [pie] before the huge fight, but taking down a general might be worth an arrow time shot or two. So I won't oppose the goonmind if it things it's a good idea.

Coq au Nandos
Nov 7, 2006

I think I would say to my daughters if they were to ask me this question... A shitpost is the greatest gift that you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don't give it to someone lightly, that's what I would say.
We are here by divine providence. We burned an offering to El and saw the oncoming storm. Our power has been unlocked for this battle. Shushem himself marches upon Tanaach.

El (or at least one of his subordinates) has blessed us for exactly this moment. El is supreme, and we are his divine rail gun.

Voting GO. Use the power we have been given to pin the enemy leader to the ground.

Absum
May 28, 2013

Slaan posted:

Also, how was Question 2 confusing? The first version of the question was clear. Do you want to break your promise? YES/NO? If Yes, for how long?


It was confusing because parts of it could also refer to the 80% rule being kept. Maybe people think the addition of "you will not use your powers in this battle of 21% blabla" was enough to clarify it was referring to the promise, but then again limiting us to never use powers in this battle now when it has barely begun and lot's of poo poo might happen still would be really stupid.

Crudus
Nov 14, 2006

GO

I think the word graphic describing our temporary abilities was our hall pass from the Watchers for this battle.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Crudus posted:

GO

I think the word graphic describing our temporary abilities was our hall pass from the Watchers for this battle.

it even specifically references that we have control over certain abilities that we normally do not, and also to not use Ball Trance

Theglavwen
Jun 10, 2006

Frankly, I don't know anyone who likes Chinese bronzes, but I have one of the finest collections in the country.
GO

Holy poo poo. I can't imagine what the (non-antagonistic) M voters are thinking. Yeah, we promised Ishamal not to use non-sanctioned powers. Because we aren't able to control ourselves. Then, we got those powers sanctioned, and were explicitly told we've been temporarily modified so to be able to control ourselves in those respects. That some people don't draw a parallel between those is...

Let me see. If I've got it straight, the line of thinking for M voters seems to go:

1. We promised Ishamal specifically, and he hasn't given us the okay.
or
2: Maybe it's a trick and an evil force modified us at El's altar in order to get us to use our powers and get in trouble!

The answer to 1 seems fairly straight-forward. Ishamal's authority derives from the Melachim. Given what we know of his positions, re: respect for the Melachim, to imagine that Ishamal would have us keep our promise to him, even in the face of the Melachim telling us to do otherwise seems ludicrous. He's following the will of the Melachim, but you think he'd have us not listen to his bosses? That though, is even really beside the point. Yes, the line was written 'you won't do anything that I don't okay', but it was also written 'the Melachim will consult in cases of extreme emergency and decide if you can use your powers then'. They've obviously done so, are people really so paralyzed by ambiguities 'between the lines' so as to resist because Ishamal hasn't literally had the time to run up and tell us it's okay? Maybe because he's fighting at Zepath?

Of course, M-position-2 objects to my statement 'The Melachim have obviously okayed us'. Either because they haven't literally come down and said 'It's okay', or because it's not 100% clear that some other secret shadow power didn't speak to us before El's altar and rearrange our soul. All I can really say to this is that some of these people must have a very hard time in life, if they're completely unable to accept anything that isn't perfectly spelled out and presented in a formal contract, and that some are really, really reaching in the thought that some evil thing has tricked us in front of El's altar. Yes, it's possible. It's also against more or less everything we've experienced in the game, and has no precedent whatsoever. It's possible, but it's extraordinarily unreasonable to reject every piece of experience we've had and go with the 'well you can't prove otherwise' rationale.

Nothing much to say to the 'gently caress You, M' voters. I respect your commitment.

Also, I wish I didn't seem to be in the position of being out each day while the first wave of Diog updates come in. I keep having to catch up to 200+ pages when I get back and miss all the debate :(

Everseen
Apr 27, 2010
BM

Cuz I wanna fire arrows and not use our vital fluids.

Cornuto
Jun 26, 2012

For the pack!

Diogines posted:

You know that [???] is expended involuntarily to mend wounds and protect your flesh to a degree. If you... experimented, perhaps you could use [???] to fuel yourself and get there in two days and still fight? You don't know how but from years of Ishamal's exercises and your own experiences you can make an educated guess?

Diogines posted:

You run.



You run and you run and then you run some more. Running and moving, moving and running. One leg in front of the other and then again and again and again and again, a whole lot.

The sun rises and you continue to run beside the river, straight north to Tanaach.



The only company you have are the sounds of the river and some startled waterbirds as you go by. In the light of day and a bit further north, you can see small hints of a storm far to the northwest.

You feel strange. You continue to run. Huff puff. Huff puff. Huff puff. You are going faster than usual, but not drastically so. Yet you do not seem to be getting any more tired at all. You sense that [???] is decreasing by a very small amount each moment.

Diogines: see above haven't we already used 'experimental powers' after being boosted?

Lanky Coconut Tree
Apr 7, 2011

An angry tree.

The angriest tree

Theglavwen posted:

GO

Holy poo poo. I can't imagine what the (non-antagonistic) M voters are thinking. Yeah, we promised Ishamal not to use non-sanctioned powers. Because we aren't able to control ourselves. Then, we got those powers sanctioned, and were explicitly told we've been temporarily modified so to be able to control ourselves in those respects. That some people don't draw a parallel between those is...

Let me see. If I've got it straight, the line of thinking for M voters seems to go:

1. We promised Ishamal specifically, and he hasn't given us the okay.
or
2: Maybe it's a trick and an evil force modified us at El's altar in order to get us to use our powers and get in trouble!

The answer to 1 seems fairly straight-forward. Ishamal's authority derives from the Melachim. Given what we know of his positions, re: respect for the Melachim, to imagine that Ishamal would have us keep our promise to him, even in the face of the Melachim telling us to do otherwise seems ludicrous. He's following the will of the Melachim, but you think he'd have us not listen to his bosses? That though, is even really beside the point. Yes, the line was written 'you won't do anything that I don't okay', but it was also written 'the Melachim will consult in cases of extreme emergency and decide if you can use your powers then'. They've obviously done so, are people really so paralyzed by ambiguities 'between the lines' so as to resist because Ishamal hasn't literally had the time to run up and tell us it's okay? Maybe because he's fighting at Zepath?

Of course, M-position-2 objects to my statement 'The Melachim have obviously okayed us'. Either because they haven't literally come down and said 'It's okay', or because it's not 100% clear that some other secret shadow power didn't speak to us before El's altar and rearrange our soul. All I can really say to this is that some of these people must have a very hard time in life, if they're completely unable to accept anything that isn't perfectly spelled out and presented in a formal contract, and that some are really, really reaching in the thought that some evil thing has tricked us in front of El's altar. Yes, it's possible. It's also against more or less everything we've experienced in the game, and has no precedent whatsoever. It's possible, but it's extraordinarily unreasonable to reject every piece of experience we've had and go with the 'well you can't prove otherwise' rationale.

Nothing much to say to the 'gently caress You, M' voters. I respect your commitment.

Also, I wish I didn't seem to be in the position of being out each day while the first wave of Diog updates come in. I keep having to catch up to 200+ pages when I get back and miss all the debate :(

Remember that time we voted to stop breathing and almost ate our dog? Oh noooo we can't do magic. Literally everyone with any amount of authority in our lives who wasn't a cannibal advised us or made us promise to not do magic until we know what we're doing. Hell, I'd bet Shushem would tell us not to do magic until we're ready. MAYBE THERE'S A GOOD REASON FOR THIS!?!?!?!?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Absum
May 28, 2013

Cornuto posted:

Diogines: see above haven't we already used 'experimental powers' after being boosted?

Pretty sure we haven't and that's just the normal unconsious wound healing/stamina increasing thing. I mean technically it is a power but I don't think we are even capable of not using it, it probably would've happened even without the boost, we just wouldn't notice.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply