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George Zimmer
Jun 28, 2008

If this isn't in the 2015 thread, I'm reporting it.

Speaking of, the first test for 2015 has already come and gone, I think it's time for the new thread.

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Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
it's still the off season.

Butt Wizard
Nov 3, 2005

It was a pornography store. I was buying pornography.

Xisticide posted:

By existing as an F1 team Marussia would get the money they "won" last season at the end of this season. If they don't exist it'll go to the rest of the teams, who are the ones voting on whether Marussia can run old cars so that they may continue to exist.

E: No wait that's dumb

Ahaha Force India blocked them running, gently caress Force India.

George Zimmer
Jun 28, 2008
If FI goes under, it will be the ultimate irony. I love you Vijay, never stop being who you are.

El Hefe
Oct 31, 2006

You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'
Force India is going under faster than one of Vijay's planes.

Dumb Username
Oct 20, 2012

El Hefe posted:

Force India is going under faster than one of Vijay's planes.

You spelt Tony Fernandes funny.

Dumb Username
Oct 20, 2012
Btw, does kingfisher airlines still exist?

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect

Dumb Username posted:

Btw, does kingfisher airlines still exist?

By early 2012, the airline accumulated losses of over INR70 billion (US$1.1 billion) with half of its fleet grounded and several members of its staff going on strike. Kingfisher's position in top Indian airlines on the basis of market share had slipped to last from 2 because of the crisis. In December 2011, for the second time in two months, Kingfisher's bank accounts were frozen by the Mumbai Income Tax department for non-payment of dues. Kingfisher Airlines owes INR70 crore (US$11 million) to the service tax department.[19] Indian tax body also stated that Kingfisher Airlines is delinquent[20] On 20 October 2012, Kingfisher's licence was suspended by the Directorate General of Civil Aviation after it failed to address the Indian regulator's concerns about its operations.[21] On 25 February 2013, its international flying rights and domestic slots were scrapped by the Indian aviation authorities.[22]
In July 2014, Kingfisher Airlines has appeared as the country's top NPA after it has failed to repay loans of over Rs 4,000 crore borrowed mainly from state-owned banks.[23]

Seems legit

Edit: ahaha they had 67 AirBus 320s on order what the poo poo. They just tried to buy all new planes for a new airline gg

Uncle Jam fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Feb 6, 2015

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
:sadhorn:

wicka
Jun 28, 2007


f1 needs small teams like sauber, not marussia or caterham. which sucks to say bc manor w/ real money behind them could be the next sauber, booth and lowdon know what they're doing, they just hosed up by selling to the russians

Wirth1000
May 12, 2010

#essereFerrari
They all entered F1 under the allusion of that budget cap that never came into fruitition so of course they were ultra-hosed from the get go. Rest in loving Peace, Hispania Racing Team, you sad sack of clown shits.

Rhopunzel
Jan 6, 2006

Stroll together, win together

Wirth1000 posted:

They all entered F1 under the allusion of that budget cap that never came into fruitition so of course they were ultra-hosed from the get go. Rest in loving Peace, Hispania Racing Team, you sad sack of clown shits.

RIP Cool Spot F1

Brainwrong
Mar 20, 2004

RIP Bobby K
Poland's Rose. Like a cabbage in the wind.

be nice wicka posted:

bc manor w/ real money behind them could be the next sauber

Invest billions and you too could be an anonymous, mediocre team that no one supports.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
If you give me 50 mill a year I promise to run a team that will always suck and score a point once in 10 years, yet never go bankrupt.

What I am saying is, I would run Minardi 2.0.

Dudley
Feb 24, 2003

Tasty

I've posted it before and I'll post it again, comparing the sponsorship levels on the Minardis to a Marusisa or Sauber is striking.





I can only assume Minardi went after a budget they knew they'd need to run, and sold the car off accordingly whereas Marussia/Sauber etc somehow assume the world owes them a £300m budget and won't sell the car for less. We KNOW McLaren do that.

nsaP
May 4, 2004

alright?
Who would buy that Caterham in auction? Ugly piece

Daveh
Jan 18, 2005

You know what? You know what you're putting into our bodies? Death! Delicious, strawberry-flavored death!
It seems like there's (obviously) more to it that Force India being shits

http://adamcooperf1.com/2015/02/06/marussia-bid-lacked-substance-says-force-indias-fernley/

Adam Cooper posted:

The brief letter also contained little or no information about the team’s future plans, such as a possible new owner or investor, or any intention to ready a 2015 car. As such some of those present at the meeting did not believe that the team had a chance of mounting a credible entry into the 2015 championship.

In order to grant permission to Marussia, unanimity was required. Force India was the first to vote, and as soon as the team responded with a ‘No’ in effect it didn’t matter what anyone else had to say. It’s understood that others also expressed opposition, as would other teams not represented in the meeting, such as Sauber and Lotus, who would have had a vote had the matter proceeded to the F1 Commission. Apparently the discussion on the subject was relatively brief.

“The strategy group was faced with an application for Marussia’s 2014 cars to compete in the 2015 championship,” said Fernley. “During the meeting it emerged that there were compliance issues and that the application lacked substance. Equally, the speculative application submitted contained no supporting documentation to reinforce the case for offering special dispensation.

“For example, no details were supplied of who the new owners would be or the operational structures that would be put in place. Given the lack of information, uncertain guarantees, and the speculative nature of the application, the decision was taken that it is better to focus on ensuring the continued participation of the remaining independent teams.”

On the face of it the decision seems to be reasonable.

Butt Wizard
Nov 3, 2005

It was a pornography store. I was buying pornography.

Daveh posted:

On the face of it the decision seems to be reasonable.

on the face of it you have a system where three teams that are circling the drain at any given time voting to not cut anyone else the slightest bit of slack.

people have long memories when it comes to this poo poo.

Daveh
Jan 18, 2005

You know what? You know what you're putting into our bodies? Death! Delicious, strawberry-flavored death!
We have teams circling the drain, let's let some more in that have already drowned once! Especially those whose supporting evidence for their request is non-existent. Good plan!

I'm all for more small independant teams, but things like budgets need to be addressed first. Three new teams were accepted in who all expected a concrete budget cap to be put in place, but it wasn't - and now all three have left the sport because they can't afford to complete. If a budget cap *had* been in place before the joined up, would they still be here, what would the sport look like now? Who knows.

Daveh fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Feb 6, 2015

Serperoth
Feb 21, 2013



Daveh posted:


On the face of it the decision seems to be reasonable.

Even if it wasn't FI, since a unanimous vote is required, I think it would have been someone else, either an "honest" vote of "yeah no, they're too slow, sorry" or just using it to apply whatever pressures they want to Bernie etc.


Daveh posted:

We have teams circling the drain, let's let some more in that have already drowned once! Especially those whose supporting evidence for their request is non-existent. Good plan!

I'm all for more small independant teams, but things like budgets need to be addressed first. Three new teams were accepted in who all expected a concrete budget cap to be put in place, but it wasn't - and now all three have left the sport because they can't afford to complete. If a budget cap *had* been in place before the joined up, would they still be here, what would the sport look like now? Who knows.

:agreed:
Smaller teams and privateers would be great for the current grid, but with costs being what they are, they'd be hard to get in without help, either a budget cap or otherwise.

Butt Wizard
Nov 3, 2005

It was a pornography store. I was buying pornography.

Daveh posted:

We have teams circling the drain, let's let some more in that have already drowned once! Especially those whose supporting evidence for their request is non-existent. Good plan!

I'm all for more small independant teams, but things like budgets need to be addressed first. Three new teams were accepted in who all expected a concrete budget cap to be put in place, but it wasn't - and now all three have left the sport because they can't afford to complete. If a budget cap *had* been in place before the joined up, would they still be here, what would the sport look like now? Who knows.

lol if you think that is going to happen now or any time soon. this has been an ongoing issue since....pretty much the existence of privateer teams.

There's been no revolution in budgets or cost controls in the last thirty years. If you want to classify this as a mercy killing 'until poo poo is sorted out' then you are going to be waiting a long long long long time, and those other teams that are on the edge will fold before it ever happens. It might be the catalyst, but you can be sure it won't happen before then.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
Yeah Minardi just sold every spot on that car and tried to make it work.

It was a terrible day Red Bull swallowed them up.

Daveh
Jan 18, 2005

You know what? You know what you're putting into our bodies? Death! Delicious, strawberry-flavored death!
I don't see it as a mercy killing and I don't expect it to change any time soon, but they, along with HRT and Caterham, have proved that you cannot compete or survive on modern F1 with a €50 million a year budget, you need about 3 times that to get anywhere. Long gone are the days where you can rock up onto the grid with a few million bucks and go racing in the world's premier single seater series for a year.

You're right in that budgets caps won't ever be introduced, and that means that you need to have money to burn to complete - and Marussia/Manor/Whatever had not proven they've got it, or even a plan to the satisfaction of those who (rightly or wrongly) have a say.

The vote wasn't even the final stage, it was pretty much the first after lodging their entry with the FIA - they'd have to have gone to the F1 Commission next where the other teams would also have got a vote.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
Bring back customer cars!

thegasman2000
Feb 12, 2005
Update my TFLC log? BOLLOCKS!
/
:backtowork:
I understand that the teams would not have hit that sweet sweet marussia prize money anyway. Bernie gets that money. He can then decide to dish it out or buy a new plane or whatever. gently caress this sport. Formula redbull is coming.

wicka
Jun 28, 2007


Daveh posted:

they, along with HRT and Caterham, have proved that you cannot compete or survive on modern F1 with a €50 million a year budget

no, they've proven that they can't consistently raise 50m/year, and they've proven that you can't operate exactly like every other team but with a tenth of the budget and expect to be any better than tenth place. haas will be a great experiment as to the future of small teams. budget-wise he's not going to spend more than caterham and marussia were, but he's also independently wealthy and can afford to spend much, much more on one-time startup costs. plus he wants to buy as many parts as possible instead of building them in-house, which seems like it's just going to produce a sad frankenstein car, but whatever. america has been to the moon

Fumble
Sep 4, 2006

Butt Wizard posted:

on the face of it you have a system where three teams that are circling the drain at any given time voting to not cut anyone else the slightest bit of slack.

people have long memories when it comes to this poo poo.

Teams that have already nearly bankrupted themselves brining their cars up to this years spec, when its apparently fine for another team to rock up with an 18 month old car old car and no fucks?
gently caress Caterham and Marussia they both knew the books would never balance and decided to run until the creditors caught up with them. When they went under they hosed over alot of smaller suppliers that will never get their money back.

Sulman
Apr 29, 2003

What did you do that for?

Meanwhile..




It's a shame F1 doesn't have a modern-day equivalent of 60's Cosworth/Hewland; someone that can sell an affordable powertrain and teams can go racing without a excess R&D. I know times have changed but the team personnel numbers are insane at the moment.

thegasman2000
Feb 12, 2005
Update my TFLC log? BOLLOCKS!
/
:backtowork:
The power units are so complex now it's a multi million pound project to make it fit in a chassis. Also it's not too easy as mclaren are finding out. Peugeot should make a power unit available for 50p for the back of the grid.

wicka
Jun 28, 2007


thegasman2000 posted:

The power units are so complex now it's a multi million pound project to make it fit in a chassis. Also it's not too easy as mclaren are finding out. Peugeot should make a power unit available for 50p for the back of the grid.

it's a hilarious catch-22. you have to use an engine that's at least tangentially related to consumer engines, otherwise auto manufacturers aren't going to find value in supplying engines. but engines in road cars are super complicated now, and making an f1 engine with similar technology is several orders of magnitude more complicated and thus more expensive. so now you've priced out cosworth et al

El Hefe
Oct 31, 2006

You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

Sulman posted:

Meanwhile..




It's a shame F1 doesn't have a modern-day equivalent of 60's Cosworth/Hewland; someone that can sell an affordable powertrain and teams can go racing without a excess R&D. I know times have changed but the team personnel numbers are insane at the moment.

What tough time is this again?

Don't tell me it's because his yearly contract with Nicole is over and they haven't signed a new one

Dudley
Feb 24, 2003

Tasty

It's exactly that.

ukle
Nov 28, 2005

El Hefe posted:

What tough time is this again?

Don't tell me it's because his yearly contract with Nicole is over and they haven't signed a new one

More precisely its Hamiltons get out of Marriage yearly card being played. Its been ~4 years where she has been trying to get him to Marry her and every time he says no.

Really wish he would move on from his cougar, just to stop this yearly farce.

Tony quidprano
Jan 19, 2014



be nice wicka posted:

it's a hilarious catch-22. you have to use an engine that's at least tangentially related to consumer engines, otherwise auto manufacturers aren't going to find value in supplying engines. but engines in road cars are super complicated now, and making an f1 engine with similar technology is several orders of magnitude more complicated and thus more expensive. so now you've priced out cosworth et al

Overly complicated hybrid system where the turbo and brakes feed into a battery pack that can drives the wheels through the crankshaft? Yeah that's fine.

Using two cam profiles? Oh that's much too expensive :allears:

wicka
Jun 28, 2007


1500quidporsche posted:

Overly complicated hybrid system where the turbo and brakes feed into a battery pack that can drives the wheels through the crankshaft? Yeah that's fine.

Using two cam profiles? Oh that's much too expensive :allears:

none of us actually know anything about how cars work

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
Apparently Vijay was the only person who voted against Marussia using their 2014 car for some races until they get a new car built. gently caress that guy. I hope his team goes under.

thegasman2000
Feb 12, 2005
Update my TFLC log? BOLLOCKS!
/
:backtowork:
This was mentioned earlier... After his vote it didn't matter so no one else voted. That said he is a twat and FI can gently caress off as well.

Brainwrong
Mar 20, 2004

RIP Bobby K
Poland's Rose. Like a cabbage in the wind.

Cojawfee posted:

Apparently Vijay was the only person who voted against Marussia using their 2014 car for some races until they get a new car built. gently caress that guy. I hope his team goes under.

No, it wasn't quite like that (unless you believe the nut-jobs on reddit)

"In order to grant permission to Marussia, unanimity was required. Force India was the first to vote, and as soon as the team responded with a ‘No’ in effect it didn’t matter what anyone else had to say. It’s understood that others also expressed opposition, as would other teams not represented in the meeting, such as Sauber and Lotus, who would have had a vote had the matter proceeded to the F1 Commission. Apparently the discussion on the subject was relatively brief."

From here. Posted earlier.

wicka
Jun 28, 2007


also marussia's plans were basically nonexistent and probably none of the teams would have supported them. they're still trying to adapt the car for 2015 and make the grid by bahrain.

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Sulman
Apr 29, 2003

What did you do that for?

Motorsport magazine just tweeted this: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/march-2010/64/virgins-brand-new-adventure

It's a good reminder of the planning and numbers involved in making an F1 challenge happen. How different it all was.

Nick Wirth is hard to weigh up. Sounds like a smart guy but he's really strange on some topics. He also quite famously hosed up the fuel tank on the first car.

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