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LornMarkus posted:Hey, theironjef, love the podcast and earlier today I had the crazy thought of sending you guys the completed rules for a fan-made Final Fantasy pen and paper that I used to play back in high school. Any chance you guys would be interested in seeing that at all? It's hilariously broken in quite a few ways but could probably provide some entertaining reading if only for seeing its attempts to reconcile ancient design philosophy with emulating Final Fantasy. Oh man, now that just reminds me that I have a full copy of the Returners RPG flying around my hard drive, is that the one you're talking about, or is it -another- crazy Final Fantasy pen and paper?
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Feb 6, 2015 20:45
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bathroomrage posted:Oh man, now that just reminds me that I have a full copy of the Returners RPG flying around my hard drive, is that the one you're talking about, or is it -another- crazy Final Fantasy pen and paper? Nope, that's the one. I'd be thinking 3rd edition as that was a little cleaner and less broken than 2nd, which is what I think most goons are familiar with.
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Feb 6, 2015 20:47
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bathroomrage posted:Oh man, now that just reminds me that I have a full copy of the Returners RPG flying around my hard drive, is that the one you're talking about, or is it -another- crazy Final Fantasy pen and paper? Isn't the Returners like 1400 pages long or some insane thing? (send it though for sure, systemmastery at gmail)
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Feb 6, 2015 20:48
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theironjef posted:Isn't the Returners like 1400 pages long or some insane thing? It's huge, and most of it is tables, if I remember right. I'm a little too afraid to go check right now.
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Feb 6, 2015 20:50
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theironjef posted:Isn't the Returners like 1400 pages long or some insane thing? (send it though for sure, systemmastery at gmail) Hell yeah, I'll dig it up as soon as I get home then.
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Feb 6, 2015 20:53
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Most of it being tables is promising. Generally the audience forgives us for not covering too much out tables of stuff since we only have an hour, so that's easy to skim. Unless the table is awesome, like the random item table in the back of Maid.
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Feb 6, 2015 20:59
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theironjef posted:Most of it being tables is promising. Generally the audience forgives us for not covering too much out tables of stuff since we only have an hour, so that's easy to skim. Unless the table is awesome, like the random item table in the back of Maid. I found it, I'll send it right over now. Oh man, this book is a treat, how did I manage to play this when I first found it? 
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Feb 6, 2015 21:02
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bathroomrage posted:I found it, I'll send it right over now. I'll go ahead and send mine too just in case we do have different versions.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:11
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Oh man the Returners RPG. I remember our group getting together to play it once back in high school. We made it through the first combat and quit right there. Turns out an RPG based on making the players do all the math that a computer does for you in the actual video games is in fact the opposite of fun.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:17
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LordZoric posted:Oh man the Returners RPG. I remember our group getting together to play it once back in high school. We made it through the first combat and quit right there. Turns out an RPG based on making the players do all the math that a computer does for you in the actual video games is in fact the opposite of fun. Yeah, when my online group played we basically had to use MapTools macros for everything because the math gets absolutely nuts at points.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:21
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I can't wait to slog through 1400 pages of incomprehensible Final Fantasy garbage with random tables for just how spiky your hair is. 1-10: Spiky. 11-40: Very Spiky. 41-80: Big and Spiky. 81-100: Super Saiyan. What I really want, though, is that WWE RPG so I can talk about my man-crush on The Rock for the entire podcast.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:22
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Grnegsnspm posted:I can't wait to slog through 1400 pages of incomprehensible Final Fantasy garbage with random tables for just how spiky your hair is. 1-10: Spiky. 11-40: Very Spiky. 41-80: Big and Spiky. 81-100: Super Saiyan. No man, it's pre FF7. No hair spikes. Limited angst. Just like 80 kinds of magic and then like moogles and behemoth and poo poo. Also would like the WWE RPG though. We'll get there someday.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:30
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LornMarkus posted:Nope, that's the one. I'd be thinking 3rd edition as that was a little cleaner and less broken than 2nd, which is what I think most goons are familiar with. I'm actually more familiar with 3rd edition. It might be cleaner, but there's still a lot of problematic stuff. Like how a good chunk of the monk's and ninja's abilities are like spells (aka they don't scale with your level all that much) and would require MAD to be useful. Not that you'd want to be MAD with those two as they can dual wield, with especially the ninja racking up lots of damage thanks to having access to katana blades. There's also the inherent flaw of having a strict class system (without class change or anything) that makes it impossible to adapt a lot of characters from the games. Maybe except for Cyan, who basically is the Swordmaster class. Oh, and there's that silly bit of making wolfmen a core player race because FF5 and 6 had that one wolf dude you saw in like one scene. Bieeardo posted:loving gazebos. I wonder how much it would cost to make a Catapult of Gazebo Bane. BatteredFeltFedora posted:I love the idea of a character finding this spear, taking up the mission, and succeeding, never finding out the spear was mundane until the end of the campaign. "The spear was normal all along?! I deserved at least a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls because I believed so hard in it!" Jovian Chronicles Second Edition RPG Player's Handbook  Chapter 3: Organizations A look at the various organizations of the Jovian Chronicles setting - aka "Hopefully more Venusian hijinks"! Venusian Bank The Venusian Bank is the wealthiest legal entity mankind has every created. The Bank pretty much owns Venus, and CEGA ain't that far behind. It would be even scarier if the Bank didn't suffer from in-house rivalries. The Bank's HQ is located in a Venusian arcology called New Tokyo. Everything about their executive structure is kept so secret that nobody outside the Bank knows who or how many actually run the place. Not even their powerful chairman is known by name, yet his arms reach far. It's a bit like the capitalistic cousin of SEELE from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Or exactly like SEELE, if it turns out they want to turn everyone into jellyfish or something. Who knows. The Bank's currently busy getting some Jovian Floaters for research and consolidating its power back on Venus after the blunder that was the Odyssey brought them some unwanted attention, with even CEGA maybe having invasion plans. Mercurian Merchant Guild The Hanseatic League in space. We also find out that one of the main reasons Mercurian merchants are everywhere in the solar system is because Mercury itself makes for a very poor trading point. You pretty much have to stay in Mercury's shadow if you want to get to the planet, otherwise the sun will most likely roast you. At least it makes potential attack vectors of other nations rather obvious. The Merchant Guild is Mercury's biggest money-maker and by its nature absolutely dependent on having good relations with the other solar nations. That's why they're so keen on staying neutral. The Guild is run by the so-called Merchant Princes. To keep their plans secret despite their public exposure, they use the Merchant's Tongue, a secret language that is frequently updated to keep others guessing. Currently, they're vary of the Venusian Bank after the Odyssey, and have become increasingly upset over CEGA and the Jovian Confederation halting their ships for inspections. United Space Nations The United Nations in space. With far less solar nations than old Earth nations, things are a bit easier to overview. If something needs to be voted on, the USN tends to be split in two: The Jovians, Mercurians and the cowboy half of Mars on one and the CEGA, Venusians and German Martians one the other side. The Belters and non-CEGA Earthlings vote for whatever they want, but they are voting more and more in the Jovians' favor. The USN is located in a neutral section of the Pyrea Orbital Station set around Earth. WIth the tension growing between CEGA and the Jovian Confederation, many fear that the USN will eventually break apart. SolaPol InterPol in space. The SolaPol aka the Solar Police is the USN's intelligence agency whose main mission is to ensure peace in the solar system. Not an easy task by a long shot, and not made easier by being rather unpopular among the solar nations. Solar Cross The Red Cross in space. No acts of violence are allowed in and around their ships. Things are currently a bit tense with CEGA since they busted open the full magnitude of the moon colony desctruction. IGS The Inter-settlement Geographic Society is the National Geographics Society in space. They're busy exploring the solar system and finding unique cultural quirks in the Belt. It's like a miniature version of Star Trek's Federation. Nothing beats these guys when it comes to mapping. They're also no longer on good terms with CEGA due to their interest in that new moon crater, and IGS members stationed close to Earth are starting to become a bit paranoid. ZONet Zenith Orbital Network is the solar system's primary news network. Their pimped out satellite network allows broadcasting all the way to Titan. Rivals like Jovian Public Access Network and Luna's OmniNews seem to slowly turn ZONet into Fox News. STRIKE STRIKE is often seen as a terrorist group, but not even the various intelligence agencies know all that much about them. It consists of several independent cells that have seemingly nothing to do with each other, and that's not even going into all the other terrorist groups that like to pretend their part of the club. Those are not nearly as well equipped or organized, though. They're main goal is freeing CEGA from Venusian influence - which may or may not mean they want to bring down CEGA as well because CEGA is bribed up the whazoo. After the Odyssey, the various STRIKE cells seem to show more and more coordinated actions. The chapter ends with four group shots. Two of those show Jovian and CEGA military dudes in uniforms (both pretty standard as far as anime go) - but that's not what I'm here for, so let's enjoy some funny hairstyles:   So anime. Next Time: Character Creations - aka human sub-races and archetypes! Doresh fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 21:33
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Doresh posted:I'm actually more familiar with 3rd edition. It might be cleaner, but there's still a lot of problematic stuff. Like how a good chunk of the monk's and ninja's abilities are like spells (aka they don't scale with your level all that much) and would require MAD to be useful. Not that you'd want to be MAD with those two as they can dual wield, with especially the ninja racking up lots of damage thanks to having access to katana blades. Dude, Lone Wolf! That's awesome, I can't wait to dig in and see what the core races actually are. I assume you've got ultra-racist dwarves, moogles, elves, wolf guys, yeti, maybe imps, little tiny people, namingways, and moon guys.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:36
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Grnegsnspm posted:I can't wait to slog through 1400 pages of incomprehensible Final Fantasy garbage with random tables for just how spiky your hair is. 1-10: Spiky. 11-40: Very Spiky. 41-80: Big and Spiky. 81-100: Super Saiyan.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:37
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Wait until you see how they try to rectify not being able to use your in-combat spells like Fire and Thunder out of combat. They try so hard to make it work.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:39
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bathroomrage posted:Wait until you see how they try to rectify not being able to use your in-combat spells like Fire and Thunder out of combat. They try so hard to make it work. Ooh, do they explain why you can't just save Aeris with a Phoenix Down?
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Feb 6, 2015 21:40
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bathroomrage posted:Wait until you see how they try to rectify not being able to use your in-combat spells like Fire and Thunder out of combat. They try so hard to make it work. What's this poo poo? How am I supposed to get up Mt. Ordeals with that kind of bullshit in place? I have paladin trials to get to.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:40
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Selachian posted:Ooh, do they explain why you can't just save Aeris with a Phoenix Down? That happens in the future, this is 6 and back. They instead don't explain why Locke can't just save Rachel with a Fenix Down. poo poo now I'm posting too much. Too excited about old videogames at this time.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:44
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theironjef posted:That happens in the future, this is 6 and back. They instead don't explain why Locke can't just save Rachel with a Fenix Down. It's weird how we can't have more death scenes like in FF5 were the party threw everything they had at Galuf, but failed because the old guy just god-moded himself to death to save everyone.
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Feb 6, 2015 21:58
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It actually goes completely the other way and, well, I don't want to spoil it because I know they'll have a field day with it.
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Feb 6, 2015 22:03
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Doresh posted:Jovian Chronicles Second Edition RPG Player's Handbook I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that Earth and Venus are supposed to be the bad guys opposed by the plucky but outgunned Jovians and other out-system bodies, but maybe that's just me. 
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Feb 6, 2015 22:15
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Cythereal posted:I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that Earth and Venus are supposed to be the bad guys opposed by the plucky but outgunned Jovians and other out-system bodies, but maybe that's just me. Actually Jupiter isn't really "plucky and outgunned" is the thing. Jovian exo-armors are like top-of-the-line and basically better than just about everyone's except mayyyyyybe Venus, but even then I think the edge is supposed to go to Jupiter, while Earth has been struggling to catch up and while there are CEGA exo-armors they're generally not as good. CEGA is supposed to make up for it by having plenty more ships, but even there the Jovians are playing the "fewer, but better" card. I mean that's the fluff of it anyway, I never actually played Jovian Chronicles because I had the (I guess) 1st Edition where mech combat was done on a hex map where you were required to keep track of three-dimensional positioning as well as your ongoing momentum because you're in space remember, and Jovian Chronicles was going to be a hard sci-fi game that just happened to have giant robots if it killed you. (This also isn't getting into the Jovian political situation where the president is kind of a power hungry jerk in the making so surprise, it's Shades of Grey all around!)
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Feb 6, 2015 22:22
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bathroomrage posted:Wait until you see how they try to rectify not being able to use your in-combat spells like Fire and Thunder out of combat. They try so hard to make it work. drat, looks like I lost my PDF at some point. Oh well, if you're bringing up Intuitive Magic then you sent them the final release of 3rd edition and that's all I wanted. Doresh posted:I'm actually more familiar with 3rd edition. It might be cleaner, but there's still a lot of problematic stuff. Like how a good chunk of the monk's and ninja's abilities are like spells (aka they don't scale with your level all that much) and would require MAD to be useful. Not that you'd want to be MAD with those two as they can dual wield, with especially the ninja racking up lots of damage thanks to having access to katana blades. Oh yeah, not trying to claim it's not a broken as hell and in several ways just bad system. Just that it's a little better than 2e and it's Weapon Masteries, among other things. Also 3rd is the one I actually played a bit, so hearing them take it to the woodshed would be way more interesting to me than the edition I never even fully read.
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Feb 6, 2015 22:44
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Kai Tave posted:Actually Jupiter isn't really "plucky and outgunned" is the thing. Jovian exo-armors are like top-of-the-line and basically better than just about everyone's except mayyyyyybe Venus, but even then I think the edge is supposed to go to Jupiter, while Earth has been struggling to catch up and while there are CEGA exo-armors they're generally not as good. CEGA is supposed to make up for it by having plenty more ships, but even there the Jovians are playing the "fewer, but better" card. Sounds like Gundam, except that the Zeons are the good guys and the Federation is the bad guys and don't have the Gundam.
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Feb 6, 2015 22:44
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I was really glad when I was linked a cool D6 based FF fangame that actually worked because it meant my group could literally burn our big rear end copy of the Returners with houserules and poo poo in a binder.
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Feb 6, 2015 22:57
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Young Freud posted:Sounds like Gundam, except that the Zeons are the good guys and the Federation is the bad guys and don't have the Gundam. Or a romanticized version of the Cold War, which was supposed to be something that Jovian Chronicles was meant to evoke. On the one side you have the freedom loving Americans with the finest technology and brightest minds and over there you have the scary Soviets with their chunky tech but they make up for it with strength of numbers. Note that the two superpowers in question here are, at their closest, about 600 million kilometers away from each other which sort of takes some of the immediacy out of the whole "what if the Cold War...went hot?" thing. It's kind of funny too because the book even points out that the scary One Earth Government isn't even that monolithic or all-encompassing and that there are plenty of nations who are just like "yeah okay, you do your thing and we're just gonna do ours."
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Feb 6, 2015 22:58
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LornMarkus posted:Oh yeah, not trying to claim it's not a broken as hell and in several ways just bad system. Just that it's a little better than 2e and it's Weapon Masteries, among other things. Also 3rd is the one I actually played a bit, so hearing them take it to the woodshed would be way more interesting to me than the edition I never even fully read. I think we had 2nd edition before. I also don't think they only wanted to cover pre-FF6 games now that I think about it. I mean, the game does differentiate between Callers (oldschool Summoners) and Summoners (Yuna). Young Freud posted:Sounds like Gundam, except that the Zeons are the good guys and the Federation is the bad guys and don't have the Gundam. Exactly - except the Gundam is also the Zaku because it's mass-produced. You can tell the different versions apart by how many missiles they carry. I know this wasn't planned that way, but Jovian Chronicles is the second DP9 setting where Earth collapses (both times in part due to environmental issues), leaves its space colonies alone for a while and then comes back as an imperialistic bunch of jerks. Doresh fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 22:59
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LornMarkus posted:Hey, theironjef, love the podcast and earlier today I had the crazy thought of sending you guys the completed rules for a fan-made Final Fantasy pen and paper that I used to play back in high school. Any chance you guys would be interested in seeing that at all? It's hilariously broken in quite a few ways but could probably provide some entertaining reading if only for seeing its attempts to reconcile ancient design philosophy with emulating Final Fantasy. I've always thought that in dealing with Final Fantasy you'd have to kind of approach the mechanics at a 90 degree angle, if you want them to emulate the mechanics of the game. Like, accuracy in Final Fantasy games only really matters against certain enemies and for some status effects like blink and such, so the default assumption should be that attacks auto-hit. I've always been tempted to give it a go myself because I love Ivalice as a setting, but it's a lot of work and it was hard enough to get my friends to try playing anything that isn't called DnD. Maybe I could whip something up and call it Dark Clouds and Dissidia.
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Feb 6, 2015 23:35
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Prison Warden posted:I've always thought that in dealing with Final Fantasy you'd have to kind of approach the mechanics at a 90 degree angle, if you want them to emulate the mechanics of the game. Like, accuracy in Final Fantasy games only really matters against certain enemies and for some status effects like blink and such, so the default assumption should be that attacks auto-hit. I've always been tempted to give it a go myself because I love Ivalice as a setting, but it's a lot of work and it was hard enough to get my friends to try playing anything that isn't called DnD. Maybe I could whip something up and call it Dark Clouds and Dissidia. Dissidia has always been really interesting for me just because of that crazy nonsense they did with Bravery and HP attacks, because it is so beautiful and so insane at the exact same time.
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Feb 6, 2015 23:49
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theironjef posted:That happens in the future, this is 6 and back. They instead don't explain why Locke can't just save Rachel with a Fenix Down. For real, tho. In Final Fantasy 6, Phoenix Downs only restore the wounded to health. 0 hit points means that your character is wounded and cannot participate in combat. Only when your entire current party is "wounded" do you get "annihilated," ostensibly because you're defenseless against the enemies. So the only known way to restore the dead to life is via the Phoenix Esper, which lost most of its power due to its magicite prison being cracked. But that's in the real game. Is that the explanation given in the Returners?
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Feb 7, 2015 00:53
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One of the problems with an FF RPG is that the settings are kind of like Dragonlance, each setting, and its components(possibly excepting the FF:Tactics setting), are pretty much made for one story and rarely have the content needed to weave another story out of. The mechanics are, mathematically, a pain in the rear end to replicate with dice and paper, and when they're not a pain in the rear end(and sometimes when they are), they require huge suspensions of disbelief and really treating the thing like a game(see: phoenix down mechanics, abilities that only work in combat, etc.). Frankly I always found it kind of a weird thing for anyone to make an RPG based on, most FF stuff isn't a deep vault of inspiration that begs for more stories to be told with it.
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Feb 7, 2015 01:08
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PurpleXVI posted:One of the problems with an FF RPG is that the settings are kind of like Dragonlance, each setting, and its components(possibly excepting the FF:Tactics setting), are pretty much made for one story and rarely have the content needed to weave another story out of. The mechanics are, mathematically, a pain in the rear end to replicate with dice and paper, and when they're not a pain in the rear end(and sometimes when they are), they require huge suspensions of disbelief and really treating the thing like a game(see: phoenix down mechanics, abilities that only work in combat, etc.). Like most licensed products, my fear is the immediate descent into a nightlong round of references. If I play this and anyone calls anyone else spoony, I'm out.
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Feb 7, 2015 01:20
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PurpleXVI posted:One of the problems with an FF RPG is that the settings are kind of like Dragonlance, each setting, and its components(possibly excepting the FF:Tactics setting), are pretty much made for one story and rarely have the content needed to weave another story out of. The mechanics are, mathematically, a pain in the rear end to replicate with dice and paper, and when they're not a pain in the rear end(and sometimes when they are), they require huge suspensions of disbelief and really treating the thing like a game(see: phoenix down mechanics, abilities that only work in combat, etc.). A huge part was frankly the classes from the various games with class changing, and you can tell that from the presence of twenty or thirty some in the finished edition and ORD rules for a bunch others. Edit: Let's see if I can remember them all for effect. Warriors Fighter Swordmaster Fencer Samurai Archer Knight Monk Dragoon Mages Black Mage White Mage Red Mage Time Mage Summoner Black Caller White Caller Sage Adepts Paladin Dark Knight Ninja Blue Mage Geomancer Magic Knight Rune Knight Experts Thief Chemist Bard Dancer Engineer Gambler Mediator Mime There you have it, all the classes in the base game, each with eight or so combat abilities spaced over 64 levels, some having huge tables to cover what an ability does. Engineer gets an entire appendix all to itself and the rules for things they craft. 
LornMarkus fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 01:20
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I remember playing some sort of kludged-together FF game with friends using 3.5ed DnD. We had limit breaks, materia, summons/assists, and combo moves. It was some unholy mix of Chrono Trigger and FF6/7, really. So I'm pretty excited to read about this Returners game
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Feb 7, 2015 03:39
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Green Intern posted:I remember playing some sort of kludged-together FF game with friends using 3.5ed DnD. We had limit breaks, materia, summons/assists, and combo moves. It was some unholy mix of Chrono Trigger and FF6/7, really. Hopefully someone does a writeup then, since my thing is podcasts.
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Feb 7, 2015 04:16
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The only Final Fantasy class I can recall missing from that list would be Viking (a.k.a. Pirate). Given that they dug deep enough to have Black/White Callers (which are from FF3, the Japanese one - well, actually, in that game there's one class that has both black and white versions of summons, but whatever - and if this came out before FF7, then there was no translation of that game into English yet), you'd think that would be in there.
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Feb 7, 2015 04:19
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:The only Final Fantasy class I can recall missing from that list would be Viking (a.k.a. Pirate). Given that they dug deep enough to have Black/White Callers (which are from FF3, the Japanese one - well, actually, in that game there's one class that has both black and white versions of summons, but whatever - and if this came out before FF7, then there was no translation of that game into English yet), you'd think that would be in there. Actually the names are drawn from there but the big deal is the difference in use: Callers are old style summoners while the Summoner class works like Yuna from FFX, where they're completely replaced on combat by their summon rather than just it being a much more grand spell. Summoners also made an excellent stand in for Dante from DMC.
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Feb 7, 2015 04:24
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I was really glad when I was linked a cool D6 based FF fangame that actually worked because it meant my group could literally burn our big rear end copy of the Returners with houserules and poo poo in a binder. Was that the one by Dust? Because I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but it certainly seems less janky...
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Feb 7, 2015 04:29
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LornMarkus posted:Actually the names are drawn from there but the big deal is the difference in use: Callers are old style summoners while the Summoner class works like Yuna from FFX, where they're completely replaced on combat by their summon rather than just it being a much more grand spell. That actually sounds kind of cool. I liked Yuna and how summons worked in FFX.
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