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The Crotch posted:Nobody deserves to be stuck with Disciple. I don't even know what the Telos part of the endgame would be like without Handmaiden, and I was never interested enough in the Disciple to find out.
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Feb 7, 2015 05:54
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What's the default crit multiplier now? Some guns have a crit mult of -0.3, so I assume it's higher than 1.25 now.
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Feb 7, 2015 07:29
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Aeonsim posted:By the way if any one wants to see what the encounters look like on Path of the Damned (full sized enemy groups + boosted stats), with a lot of pausing while taking on two parties, some Beatles, Drakes, Spiders, & an Ogre with his Bears then have a look at this: [e] Haha, and he still loses like two people just from crits before finishing them off. Dang.
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Feb 7, 2015 07:41
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Rascyc posted:I look at one fight and the whole thing is just opening up with every single AoE after the dialog finishes to blow everyone up. Yep it's Path of the Damned  and I'm running a party with 4 spell casters (Wizard, Druid, Cipher, Priest) and a Rogue, AoE and CC are where it's at with that mix. Nowhere near enough Health/Deflection/Damage to get up close and personal and survive doing so.
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Feb 7, 2015 12:14
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Is it planned to have unique world map icons for the wilderness areas, or will some have the same forest icon?
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Feb 7, 2015 14:25
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Stormwall Gorge got a new icon this build and it's location on the map was changed. Would be cool if they were all unique, but would understand if they don't end up being so.
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Feb 7, 2015 14:27
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Rascyc posted:I look at one fight and the whole thing is just opening up with every single AoE after the dialog finishes to blow everyone up. If Path of the Damned is like Heart of Winter (or whatever that checkbox was called) in Icewind Dale you're supposed to play it with your high-level party after finishing the game. It's essentially New Game+. Doing it with a low level party that's also undergeared (as the BB characters are) is a recipe for pain.
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Feb 7, 2015 15:50
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DatonKallandor posted:If Path of the Damned is like Heart of Winter (or whatever that checkbox was called) in Icewind Dale you're supposed to play it with your high-level party after finishing the game. It's essentially New Game+. Doing it with a low level party that's also undergeared (as the BB characters are) is a recipe for pain. In the live stream rope kid wasn't at high level but he had cleared a few floors of it. He even said that since it is under the keep, you can clear some more every time you return back there, which is p. cool.
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Feb 7, 2015 16:03
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DatonKallandor posted:If Path of the Damned is like Heart of Winter (or whatever that checkbox was called) in Icewind Dale you're supposed to play it with your high-level party after finishing the game. It's essentially New Game+. Doing it with a low level party that's also undergeared (as the BB characters are) is a recipe for pain. No New Game+ that I'm aware of. Path of the Damned is designed for your fresh level 1 character to struggle through. Gotta earn those cheevos. quote:In the live stream rope kid wasn't at high level but he had cleared a few floors of it. He even said that since it is under the keep, you can clear some more every time you return back there, which is p. cool. Path of the Damned is a difficulty setting. You're talking about the Endless Paths mega-dungeon which is 13? levels deep or so.
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Feb 7, 2015 16:08
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Litany Unheard posted:No New Game+ that I'm aware of. Path of the Damned is designed for your fresh level 1 character to struggle through. Gotta earn those cheevos. That sucks. The Icewind Dale 2 version was a lot cooler than that, since it also had special merchant and loot tables with New Game+ gear that doesn't exist in the regular game - including special extra powerful versions of named loot (which might not fit together with the crafting system right now, but whatever). Stuff that wouldn't be in something that's just a diffculty setting. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 19:32
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I'm very upset that this game isn't out now. Make time go faster pls and thanks Also curse your extra's I"m probably going to splurge for the upgraded version for that sweet soundtrack.
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Feb 7, 2015 19:37
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Gyshall posted:In the live stream rope kid wasn't at high level but he had cleared a few floors of it. He even said that since it is under the keep, you can clear some more every time you return back there, which is p. cool. In the live stream Rope Kid was playing on Hard, which has similar numbers of enemies but they're all a level or two weaker so have less health, don't hit as often and do less damage. For example the Elder Bears in Hard have an accuracy of ~95 while on Path of the Damned they've an accuracy of 107 so about 10% higher chance of hitting and equivalent to about 2 levels higher if they follow the same progression rules as the Party members.
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Feb 7, 2015 19:39
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DatonKallandor posted:That sucks. The Icewind Dale 2 version was a lot cooler than that, since it also had special merchant and loot tables with New Game+ gear that doesn't exist in the regular game - including special extra powerful versions of named loot (which might not fit together with the crafting system right now, but whatever). Stuff that wouldn't be in something that's just a diffculty setting. They'd probably love to do stuff like this but is seems like they're hard-pressed just getting the bugs stomped out of what they've already built. Not to mention their own forums are constantly demanding new features and tweaks to existing stuff. Maybe we'll see something like this in the expansion or (here's hoping) PoE 2?
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Feb 7, 2015 19:58
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If I were to do the boys from South Park: The Stick of Truth with Stan a Fighter, Kyle a Ranger, Jimmy a Chanter, Cartman a Wizard and Butters a Paladin, what class would Kenny be?
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Feb 7, 2015 20:15
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Probably a priest, since he's the most closely connected with the afterlife.
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Feb 7, 2015 20:20
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DatonKallandor posted:That sucks. The Icewind Dale 2 version was a lot cooler than that, since it also had special merchant and loot tables with New Game+ gear that doesn't exist in the regular game - including special extra powerful versions of named loot (which might not fit together with the crafting system right now, but whatever). Stuff that wouldn't be in something that's just a diffculty setting. I don't know for sure, but i assume that IWD 2 had a much bigger budget, plus the benefit of using an engine that was mostly bug free. As much as i like New Game+ mechanics, it is probably a small minority that even plays such a feature.
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Feb 7, 2015 20:23
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I'm okay with NG+ stuff but I seem to recall IWDs' Heart of Fury was really punishing to the point that you had a pretty limited amount of strategies available to you if you actually want to survive through them.
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Feb 7, 2015 20:46
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DatonKallandor posted:If Path of the Damned is like Heart of Winter (or whatever that checkbox was called) in Icewind Dale you're supposed to play it with your high-level party after finishing the game. It's essentially New Game+. Doing it with a low level party that's also undergeared (as the BB characters are) is a recipe for pain.
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Feb 7, 2015 21:01
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DatonKallandor posted:That sucks. The Icewind Dale 2 version was a lot cooler than that, since it also had special merchant and loot tables with New Game+ gear that doesn't exist in the regular game - including special extra powerful versions of named loot (which might not fit together with the crafting system right now, but whatever). Stuff that wouldn't be in something that's just a diffculty setting.
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Feb 7, 2015 22:28
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Rascyc posted:I hope not. HoF mode in Icewind Dale was not a very fun mode because you straight up had to use the most broken aspects of the engine to compete.
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Feb 7, 2015 22:30
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Rascyc posted:I look at one fight and the whole thing is just opening up with every single AoE after the dialog finishes to blow everyone up. Here is another one on Path of the Damned this time using a melee focused party: Paladin, BB Fighter, Barbarian, Monk, Chanter & Ranger. It makes a lot of the fights much much easier than the spell caster heavy party, but less versatile at the same time. There is a lot less pausing and they're pretty good at annihilating enemy parties, beetles, wolves, wurms and spiders (I had to check the difficult after the first batch of beetles, thought it had been reset to easy...) but I've not yet worked out how to use them to take down the Ogre & his bears. It's in 1080P and the description contains links which jump to each of the encounters with the different enemies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ktnVg4dFD0
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Feb 7, 2015 23:03
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prometheus12345 posted:I hate things like this. All gear should be obtainable on all difficulty levels. The only thing that is worse in a game is if some features/classes/characters are only playable on new game+/the highest difficulty level. Why should gear that is too powerful for normal mode be available in it? New Game+ with proper support means you get to play the game once and have a reasonable challenge and nice start-at-1 progression and then when you've done that you can play the extra hard mode that has stuff that might have been considered "unfair" in the first run but also equipment that lets you keep progressing in power without having to code level ups and the rewards that entails (talents, etc.). But yeah, it's probably a budget thing and by IWD2 they really knew their way around the engine. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 02:51
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So the way the game scales difficulty is rather interesting. In general as you go through Easy, Normal and Hard the creatures stats stay much the same, however the numbers of enemies change, while for PoD both the numbers and strength of the enemies change: If we take for an example a wood beetle at all these difficult levels they have a Deflection of 33 and Accuracy of 51. However the number of enemies changes from level to level. So if we look at the area south of the road at Dyrford Crossing before it curves up this is what happens: Easy: 1 Stone Beetle (SB), 4 Wood Beetles (WB) Normal: 3 SB, 4 WB Hard: 1 Adra Beetle (AB), 2 SB, 4 WB Now if we change to Path of the Damned the numbers increase again, but also the stats increase the wood beetles which were 33DEF, 51ACC -> 48DEF, 66ACC for a 45% increase in DEF & 30% increase in ACC. Secondly the numbers change again: PoD: 1 AB, 3 SB, 4 WB It seems they get the max number of each enemy type that has been present in the previous difficulties, the result is each enemy is harder to hit, finds it easier to hit you and there are slightly more of them .For the various enemies I've looked at the range of Def increases is 20-50% and the ACC improvement in the range of 25-40% Other examples: Inside the Caves all Spiders up to Korgraks area: Easy, 7 total: 1 Ivory Spinner (IS), 1 Ivory Spinner Spiderling (ISS), 3 WidowMakers (WM), 2 WidowMaker Spiderlings (WMS) Normal, 22 total: 6 IS, 3 ISL, 4 WM, 9 WMS Hard, 29 total: 8 IS, 6 ISL, 6 WM, 9 WMS PoD, 31 total: 8 IS, 6 ISL, 8 MW, 9 WMS With each individual having about 40% more Def and ACC Anyway it makes for a very substantial increase in difficulty going from Hard to PoD, as well as a more interesting difficulty scale rather than just having all the enemies attribute adjusted by 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0x for Easy, Normal, Hard and PoD. The other defences also increase in much the same way so it's possible that there endurance does as well, but I can't easily test that. Aeonsim fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 04:30
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Since they changed the XP system, does that mean you get slightly more XP on hard now?
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Feb 8, 2015 04:37
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SurrealityCheck posted:Since they changed the XP system, does that mean you get slightly more XP on hard now? I don't think so, you just get the XP quicker, because you don't need to explore so far to find enough enemies to get the full combat XP for each enemy type.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:42
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Aeonsim posted:Now if we change to Path of the Damned the numbers increase again, but also the stats increase the wood beetles which were 33DEF, 51ACC -> 48DEF, 66ACC for a 45% increase in DEF & 30% increase in ACC.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:47
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Aeonsim posted:Here is another one on Path of the Damned this time using a melee focused party: Paladin, BB Fighter, Barbarian, Monk, Chanter & Ranger. It makes a lot of the fights much much easier than the spell caster heavy party, but less versatile at the same time. There is a lot less pausing and they're pretty good at annihilating enemy parties, beetles, wolves, wurms and spiders (I had to check the difficult after the first batch of beetles, thought it had been reset to easy...) but I've not yet worked out how to use them to take down the Ogre & his bears. You might just need to level up/find better gear to deal with the ogre encounter. Unless they tune down Elder Bears.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:49
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FRINGE posted:Is it confirmed do-able or more of a "lets see how they handle this"? It's doable, at least for the beta as that's the level I've been playing on with out to much difficulty, see the videos I've posted earlier. Note while the differences between PoD and hard sound large (40% more DEF/ACC) the actual numbers aren't that high it's usually about 15 points of Def or ACC. Considering A ring of Deflection gives you 10 Def, and one of the accuracy enchantments gives +8 ACC, you can easily make up the difference with items or buffs. In the beta a spell caster heavy party has completed everything though a couple of fights took a lot of effort. While for a melee party everything is much easier except one fight I can't beat with my current level party, if I leave it and come back after I've gained another level it should be doable OR I could swap a single member of the party for a spell caster who specializes in the enemies that are giving me problems and I could win the fight right now. That fight is purely optional though you can resolve it via diplomacy and get all the XP and most of the rewards. Aeonsim fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 05:03
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Litany Unheard posted:You might just need to level up/find better gear to deal with the ogre encounter. Unless they tune down Elder Bears. Yeah another level or swapping out one part member for a ranger or cipher and the fight would be much easier. I'd prefer they don't tune down the Elder Bears as it is doable just requires more time/levels or a being willing to change your party every now and then. I could probably do it with the party as it is now if I'm willing to try some extreme kiting.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:06
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Elder Bears are still a bit ridiculous IMO. 97 Accuracy and 50 damage on a hit through Plate Armor (on Hard), 60-80 on a crit. They drop pretty much any character in 2 hits. It used to be worse, but their accuracy is too high for the current build and the per-hit damage is still probably a bit high. I'd prefer if they were given a little something else to be a bit more interesting of an encounter, because currently that one requires hard CC to win, and that's boring/flavorless. Some ideas to go with lower damage: Knock Down attack, Bleeding DoT attack (Rake with the claws etc), Attribute-draining attack, higher health, faster attacks, long interrupt - whatever really. Korgrak is fine though.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:13
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Aeonsim posted:So the way the game scales difficulty is rather interesting. Thanks for the breakouts. Tuning each encounter for multiple difficulty levels is a lot more work on Obsidian's end, but gives us a much better experience. I'm really happy they didn't do the spongy multipliers in TES and the new Fallouts, for e.g. Making combat deadlier is another good way to do it, so there's less margin for error in combat. Require better tactics and provide less margin for error on higher difficulties, don't simply draw out combat and chew up resources. This is going to be a very good game. Roll around quicker, release date.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:52
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DatonKallandor posted:Why should gear that is too powerful for normal mode be available in it? Personally, it would make me want to play New Game+ more by providing a glimpse of items that can only be used at even higher levels.
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Feb 8, 2015 08:47
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SurrealityCheck posted:Since they changed the XP system, does that mean you get slightly more XP on hard now? You can get XP from combat by discovering things about your opponents. Once you know everything there is to know about beetles you can fight a 100 more beetles but you are not getting any more XP. So on the higher difficulties you'll get that XP a little faster since you are fighting more ( and more varied ) monsters but eventually there just is not any more to be found. You won't get to a higher level with it at the end of the game.
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Feb 8, 2015 10:27
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Tzarnal posted:You can get XP from combat by discovering things about your opponents. Once you know everything there is to know about beetles you can fight a 100 more beetles but you are not getting any more XP. So on the higher difficulties you'll get that XP a little faster since you are fighting more ( and more varied ) monsters but eventually there just is not any more to be found. You won't get to a higher level with it at the end of the game. Sweet, OK. Wasn't sure the exact system they had now. That is a good idea though - gives you a quicker ramp up on hard to handle problemos without making you broken by the end.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:33
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enraged_camel posted:Personally, it would make me want to play New Game+ more by providing a glimpse of items that can only be used at even higher levels. I dunno. One of the biggest drawbacks I had from Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 with super weapons was that you got them...but only had them for the last 20 minutes of the game. To me it seems less like an incentive to play again, and more like a "lol you wasted all your time getting this and it does NOTHING". In New Game + everything is harder, right? So the super powered item is much less so in NG+.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:56
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What super weapons are you talking about specifically? I don't recall any "super weapons" at the end of Baldur's Gate 1. The latest weapon you acquire in vanilla is probably Dagger +2: Longtooth. As with the BG2 items that required parts, while a lot of those parts required you to progress the main story a fair way, you were not required to do any of the side content in Chapter 2, so technically you could come out of the Underdark with those weapons and still do Umar Hills, Windspear Hills and all that in Chapter 5? If you liked. It's just that most people did all of that in Chapter 2 instead. The weapons also carried across into ToB, too - so it wasn't so bad in the end.
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Feb 8, 2015 17:39
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I remember that halberd...Wave Crasher? I think? That you got at the very end of the Underdark, and by then you'd have completed almost all of the other areas in the game only to go fight the last few bosses.
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Feb 8, 2015 18:14
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The Adventure Mart gets a new shipment of endgame gear when you leave the Underdark too, but that stuff still gets some milage in the first half of ToB so it never really bothered me too much that it becomes available so late in the game
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Feb 8, 2015 18:18
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Arzachel posted:He's right though. i don't agree
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Feb 8, 2015 18:33
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Samog posted:i don't agree If you didn't play those games when they were current / know D&D systems, they're badly dated and incredibly tedious. There's a good reason PoE has its own systems instead of being Baldur's Gate with an updated D&D edition number.
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Feb 8, 2015 18:41
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