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  • Locked thread
the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe
Because I'm curious why you bring it up as a possibility.

fiery_valkyrie posted:

I still want to lynch Exact or Rarity most though.

##vote exact

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Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop
Gabriel you seem strangely reticent about actually voting EXAKT. You seem to be looking for support for jusr any other possible candidate. This makes me curious. Why? Want to talk it over?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Gabriel Pope posted:

Because I'm curious why you bring it up as a possibility.

The reason I think Rarity is scummy is because she is sticking to a bad case today and got weirdly defensive when questioned about it.

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale
Lumpen I'm not sure what you expect me to say to defend myself, as you seem pretty set on voting for me. I don't like your case, as it seems to hinge mainly on the NK target, which I don't like on principle. I'd rather vote Somber or Gabe, but if I have to die, so be it. :)

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

EXAKT Science posted:

Lumpen I'm not sure what you expect me to say to defend myself, as you seem pretty set on voting for me. I don't like your case, as it seems to hinge mainly on the NK target, which I don't like on principle. I'd rather vote Somber or Gabe, but if I have to die, so be it. :)

Can you restate your cases on Somber and Gabe?

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Lumpen posted:

Gabriel you seem strangely reticent about actually voting EXAKT. You seem to be looking for support for jusr any other possible candidate. This makes me curious. Why? Want to talk it over?

I'm looking to see who's supporting other possible candidates because I don't think there's any justification for not lynching EXAKT today, therefore people bringing up other candidates are suspect. I guess f_v is technically beyond reproach but it's still my knee-jerk reaction that anyone could be possible scum.

I'm planning on dropping my vote when I get off work today. I don't want to cut off discussion, particularly during working hours where it's simple for me to keep up with the thread, but I'm going to be too busy tonight to spend time on the forums.

Who here doesn't think EXAKT is a probable scum candidate? Just WM and Rarity last I checked, Gamer seems wishy-washy but sounds like he would be willing to join in.

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale

Somberbrero posted:

I have no idea how to respond to Rarity other than to tell her that she's wrong and say mean words. I'm not sure what you two are doing and how the behaviors you're pointing out correlate in any way to alignment. I don't think a big back and forth is productive here because it will just give Gabriel more room to hide, but there are clear issues with your reasoning.

One of the things Somber does that always strikes me as scummy is that he'll talk about his playstyle and use it to project. For example, "I did this thing when I was scum, and a different player with a different playstyle is doing it now, therefore they are scum!"

That's written as not 'one thing somber does as scum,' but rather 'one thing somber always does.' Even I buy into the premise that I do this behavior as town or scum, how then would that be indicative of my alignment?

I would ask you to be as specific as possible in detailing how my position on Wall Monitor is contradictory.

EXAKT Science posted:

The main thing that struck me was how it read to me like you were, on the one hand, talking about how important aggressive scumhunting is (I agree, by the way), but then also are excusing WM's scumminess. It felt like you were trying to stifle discussion while also talking about why that discussion is so important, which struck me as scummy. I've also seen you buddy up to scummy-acting townies and vouch for them when your scum, and I know that you're very good at faking scumhunting and leading townies around. Before you ask, yes, of course I'm over what happened in Low-Effort Mafia, why do you ask? :v:
I didn't like the way he went back and forth on WM, and I've seen him win as scum before by doing pretty much exactly this.

My Gabe case is based on this doozy of a post:

Gabriel Pope posted:

I really don't like this post. It seems very premature to declare yourself and valk cleared. The timing smells of desperation play, and I don't like Lumpen's continuing fixation on Gamerofthegame.

On the other hand...


EXAKT was one of our leading lynch candidates at the end of D1 and has not exactly covered himself with glory so far D2. Even before the claim I would already have been satisfied with an EXAKT lynch today (although Rarity is quickly rocketing to the top of the scummiest players list) and now lynching EXAKT also gives us an opportunity to test Lumpen's claim. If he's lying, we've only lynched someone we might have wound up lynching anyhow and we'll have confirmed Lumpen is scum. If he's telling the truth, we'll have nailed scum and confirmed a doctor.

I don't want to lynch EXAKT just yet, though. I'm pretty confident in the prospect of lynching EXAKT to test Lumpen's claim, but there are three possible pitfalls:

1) Lumpen is the doctor, but misinterpeted the nightkill. We lynch EXAKT, get a townie flip, and have to either trust Lumpen at his word (yeah right) or lynch a doctor.

2) Lumpen is scum... and so is EXAKT. They knew they were two of the leading scum candidates and now Lumpen is hard bussing so that at least one of them can survive unscathed.

3) Lumpen is scum and has reason to suspect EXAKT is a power role or is otherwise somehow dangerous to scumteam. Lumpen knows he's going down so he sacrifices himself in order to take out EXAKT or at least draw out a counterclaim.

There's a fourth possibility we may be led astray here, if Lumpen is town and fakeclaiming to avoid being lynched, but from what I've seen of Lumpen I think we can rule that one out. Nothing about Lumpen/EXAKT's posting makes me suspect scumbuddies, so we can probably set aside #2.

#3... If Lumpen was scum, and somehow suspected EXAKT was the doc, this claim would be a brilliant move. That could be where he was trying to lead people with his thought experiment yesterday. That seems farfetched, though.

Which mostly leaves #1, EXAKT is random town and scumteam targetted valk for unrelated reasons. This... is possible, although overall I'm comfortable with lynching EXAKT. I already thought EXAKT was a better scum candidate than Lumpen, so this doesn't even change anything. Still, I think we should wait for EXAKT. I also feel remiss pushing for a lynch before Somberbrero says anything for D2--my case on him has coolled a bit but there could still be something up there.
Like look at this. He pushes me while trying to cast doubt on a claim from an unCC'd doctor. He's also trying as hard as he can to look like he wants to vote for me, while still distancing himself from my eventual flip.

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale

Gabriel Pope posted:

I'm looking to see who's supporting other possible candidates because I don't think there's any justification for not lynching EXAKT today, therefore people bringing up other candidates are suspect. I guess f_v is technically beyond reproach but it's still my knee-jerk reaction that anyone could be possible scum.

I'm planning on dropping my vote when I get off work today. I don't want to cut off discussion, particularly during working hours where it's simple for me to keep up with the thread, but I'm going to be too busy tonight to spend time on the forums.

Who here doesn't think EXAKT is a probable scum candidate? Just WM and Rarity last I checked, Gamer seems wishy-washy but sounds like he would be willing to join in.

And here's another interest check as far as cuddling me. He doesn't want to be the one leading the charge on my cuddle.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop
EXAKT, any thoughts or analysis you'd be willing to share on Rarity and/or gamerofthegame?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

EXAKT Science posted:

I didn't like the way he went back and forth on WM, and I've seen him win as scum before by doing pretty much exactly this.

My Gabe case is based on this doozy of a post:

Like look at this. He pushes me while trying to cast doubt on a claim from an unCC'd doctor. He's also trying as hard as he can to look like he wants to vote for me, while still distancing himself from my eventual flip.

Can you show where he went back and forth on WM? In that quote he just asks you to outline you case that he did go back and forth.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

EXAKT Science posted:

My Gabe case is based on this doozy of a post:

My only experience is with a vanilla game, so I'm not used to having power roles around. And when I log in and see posts like these:

Gamerofthegame posted:

Doubt it.

Let's see where this goes tomorrow.

wall monitor posted:

Okay, :tinfoil: theory time!


I'm calling fakeclaim.

Either someone else is the doctor and you're taking credit, or, and I know this might be a bit :tinfoil: but I like this theory better:

There may or may not actually be a doctor, and scum chose not to nightkill N1 to make us think there was one so that Lumpen could claim and then possibly then finger EXAKT as above

If Lumpen is telling the truth and is in fact the doctor though... well, let me think on this a bit. You've convinced me not to try hammer today till I see other people's reactions at least, so good job(?)

I figured I should at least entertain the idea that there could be something fishy going on, if only because we might need to persuade one/both of them to vote for you.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Huh, I thought I had a vote up already. Right now I'd vote Somber > Pope > WM and I'm definitely not voting Exakt. Pope's latest posts have been very scummy, in particular the whole "lynch Exakt to test Lumpen's claim" scenario because he's setting up a chain lynch based on Exakt flipping town. Also his interpretation of me softballing the Somber case to Exakt is wrong on two levels. Firstly, they're different cases with different reasons and the second is that it doesn't jibe with the Rarity/Exakt scumteam he's pushing. There's no point in softballing a case to a scum buddy.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Rarity posted:

Pope's latest posts have been very scummy, in particular the whole "lynch Exakt to test Lumpen's claim" scenario because he's setting up a chain lynch based on Exakt flipping town.

That was yesterday and I pointed out why chain lynching EXAKT -> Lumpen would be a bad idea in the same post.

Rarity posted:

Firstly, they're different cases with different reasons and the second is that it doesn't jibe with the Rarity/Exakt scumteam he's pushing. There's no point in softballing a case to a scum buddy.

What :psyduck: How does pointing out that those posts look like they were coordinated not jive with the theory that you might be scumbuddies?

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

ꜱʜʀɪᴍᴘ?

Rarity posted:

Huh, I thought I had a vote up already. Right now I'd vote Somber > Pope > WM and I'm definitely not voting Exakt. Pope's latest posts have been very scummy, in particular the whole "lynch Exakt to test Lumpen's claim" scenario because he's setting up a chain lynch based on Exakt flipping town. Also his interpretation of me softballing the Somber case to Exakt is wrong on two levels. Firstly, they're different cases with different reasons and the second is that it doesn't jibe with the Rarity/Exakt scumteam he's pushing. There's no point in softballing a case to a scum buddy.

There is no Somber case. Your vote is based on the assumption that I can't believe aggressive scum hunting is a scum behavior. At best that's poor meta reasoning, at worst it's completely divorced from reality. I'd encourage you try and play the game at some point.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Gabriel Pope posted:

That was yesterday and I pointed out why chain lynching EXAKT -> Lumpen would be a bad idea in the same post.

Your whole post set up the idea that if one is town then the other is scum. You even punctuated the proposed "Lumpen is town but read the NK wrong" option with a "yeah right"

quote:

What :psyduck: How does pointing out that those posts look like they were coordinated not jive with the theory that you might be scumbuddies?

The point of softballing is hiding behind someone else's case so they take the blame for a bad lynch. It's what you've been accused of doing with posts on Exakt. Do I need to tell you why scum don't want other scum to be blamed for lynches?

Somberbrero posted:

There is no Somber case. Your vote is based on the assumption that I can't believe aggressive scum hunting is a scum behavior. At best that's poor meta reasoning, at worst it's completely divorced from reality. I'd encourage you try and play the game at some point.

Well whatever it is it's still different to what Exakt's been saying :v:

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Rarity posted:

Your whole post set up the idea that if one is town then the other is scum. You even punctuated the proposed "Lumpen is town but read the NK wrong" option with a "yeah right"

That same sentence pointed out that the alternative to taking him at his word was to lynch the doctor. I was illustrating the situation: in that scenario we wouldn't be able to trust Lumpen but we wouldn't be able to safely lynch him, either.

At any rate, the point of me listing off all the possible problems of reading into Lumpen's claim based on EXAKT's flip was not, in fact, to suggest that we should read into Lumpen's claim based on EXAKT's flip.

[quote="Rarity" post=""441350634"The point of softballing is hiding behind someone else's case so they take the blame for a bad lynch. It's what you've been accused of doing with posts on Exakt. Do I need to tell you why scum don't want other scum to be blamed for lynches?[/quote"]

If only there was someone else who had been strongly advocating for lynching Somberbrero right before you and EXAKT both jumped on the case... someone who could take the fall for you if you got the bandwagon to take off and got a town flip...

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007

I've been working/househunting/at the dentist (ow), apologies for not keeping up much today

idk, it might just be me being a newbie, but I still don't trust Lumpen much. Since people are moving away from that though, I'd consider Gabriel again

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

ꜱʜʀɪᴍᴘ?
If Lumpen was lying, there'd be a 50% chance he'd be counterclaimed and die as a result. It's not out of the realm of possibility but it seems unlikely.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Gabriel Pope posted:

At any rate, the point of me listing off all the possible problems of reading into Lumpen's claim based on EXAKT's flip was not, in fact, to suggest that we should read into Lumpen's claim based on EXAKT's flip.

Holy poo poo. You literally said you were "pretty confident" about using the flip to test Lumpen's claim.

quote:

If only there was someone else who had been strongly advocating for lynching Somberbrero right before you and EXAKT both jumped on the case... someone who could take the fall for you if you got the bandwagon to take off and got a town flip...

Wait, so now we were both softballing to you? Any more of your story you want to change?

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Rarity posted:

Holy poo poo. You literally said you were "pretty confident" about using the flip to test Lumpen's claim.

Wait, so now we were both softballing to you? Any more of your story you want to change?

EXAKT is probably scum, and I don't think a Lumpen/EXAKT scumteam is running some kind of gambit (my scenario #2, which I discarded) so lynching EXAKT will most likely confirm Lumpen's claim. But we cannot rule out the scenario where EXAKT and Lumpen are both town and Lumpen was simply misguided (which I listed as #1.)

I know my post was long and rambly but you're being really obtuse. Case in point: I have no idea how you two posting after me could be construed as "softballing to me".

At any rate, we can sort it out Tuesday.

##vote EXAKT Science

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop
Reminder that we need a full 5 out of the 6 remaining Townies voting together in order to lynch a Scum today.

Also hoping that if they have a Roleblocker, EXAKT is it. Otherwise I figure I'm dead tonight.

Assuming EXAKT flips Scum, Scumbuddy probability is Rarity > gamerofthegame > Gabriel.
I'm pretty confident that Somberbrero and wall monitor are Town and obviously f_v is confirmed Town.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

ꜱʜʀɪᴍᴘ?
Sorry, my attention has been lacking. I definitely overextended in playing here. ##vote exakt

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
I can hammer whenever, so continue.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop
Votecount for Day 2

EXAKT Science (4): Lumpen, fiery_valkyrie, Gabriel Pope, Somberbrero
Lumpen (0): EXAKT Science, Gamerofthegame, wall monitor, wall monitor, EXAKT Science, Gamerofthegame

Not Voting (4): EXAKT Science, Gamerofthegame, Rarity, wall monitor

With 8 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch. The current deadline is February 10th, 2015 at 10 a.m. GMT -- that's in about 9 hours, 36 minutes.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
I might as well not even vote but ~*principles*~

##vote Somber

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale

Lumpen posted:

EXAKT, any thoughts or analysis you'd be willing to share on Rarity and/or gamerofthegame?

I feel okay about both of them, I guess. Both of them, especially Gamer, have fairly scummy metas, but I haven't seen anything particularly damning from them. I'm honestly amazed that Gabe doesn't have more attention thrown his way; he's pushing for me in a super scummy way, and it's crazy that no one else sees it, and I'm not going down before I ##vote Gabriel Pope. Anyway, hammer me if you have to. It does suck that I'm going from never being miscuddled to being miscuddled twice in a week, but that's mafia :)

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.
If exact flips town, I think Gabe is most likely scum.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

ꜱʜʀɪᴍᴘ?

Rarity posted:

I might as well not even vote but ~*principles*~

##vote Somber

I want to aggressively scumhunt you in the face right now.

EXAKT Science posted:

I feel okay about both of them, I guess. Both of them, especially Gamer, have fairly scummy metas, but I haven't seen anything particularly damning from them. I'm honestly amazed that Gabe doesn't have more attention thrown his way; he's pushing for me in a super scummy way, and it's crazy that no one else sees it, and I'm not going down before I ##vote Gabriel Pope. Anyway, hammer me if you have to. It does suck that I'm going from never being miscuddled to being miscuddled twice in a week, but that's mafia :)

I was trying to push Gabe yesterday, when you were pushing me.

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale
Gabe hadn't made that ridiculous scumpost yesterday. Also I tend not to trust you on principle.

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007

Eh. I'm not convinced about Exakt right now... Someone want to sum up the case against him? Meantime I'll go through and do another read.

I've got another hour before I have to call it a night.

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007

idk, I don't feel confident enough in Exakt, not that it matters since Exakt is -1 with someone standing by to hammer apparently

[b]##vote Gabriel Pope[/b[

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007

##vote Gabriel Pope

There

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale
Thanks for the vote of confidence, WM. Again, if I get cuddled, that's fine. I still think that Gabe would be a far better cuddle and would net us a scum, but I've stated my case several times over and it unfortunately hasn't taken. If Rarity switched, we'd only need Gamer and one more to hammer, but I don't know how feasible that is at this point.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

ꜱʜʀɪᴍᴘ?
Well, moving my vote won't help. Hopefully Rarity or Gamer do work here.

EXAKT Science
Aug 14, 2012

8 on the Kinsey scale
Is anyone else here?

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop
If this is a no-lynch, Town deserves to lose. Shame!

Town is going to win eventually anyway, the Scum remain clearly among EXAKT, Rarity, and gamerofthegame.

Wall monitor can be considered an honorary Scum for being so helpful to them.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop
Votecount for Day 2

EXAKT Science (4): Lumpen, fiery_valkyrie, Gabriel Pope, Somberbrero
Gabriel Pope (2): EXAKT Science, wall monitor
Somberbrero (1): Rarity
Lumpen (0): EXAKT Science, Gamerofthegame, wall monitor, wall monitor, EXAKT Science, Gamerofthegame

Not Voting (1): Gamerofthegame

With 8 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch. The current deadline is February 10th, 2015 at 10 a.m. GMT -- that's in about 2 hours, 51 minutes.

If you are Town, drop the hammer now!

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
Yeah, yeah.

##vote Lumpen

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
nah i'm just foolin'

##vote Exakt

:redhammer:

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votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Votecount for Day 2

EXAKT Science (5): Lumpen, fiery_valkyrie, Gabriel Pope, Somberbrero, Gamerofthegame
Gabriel Pope (2): EXAKT Science, wall monitor
Somberbrero (1): Rarity
Lumpen (0): EXAKT Science, Gamerofthegame, wall monitor, wall monitor, EXAKT Science, Gamerofthegame, Gamerofthegame, Gamerofthegame

Not Voting (0):

With 8 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch. The current deadline is February 10th, 2015 at 10 a.m. GMT -- that's in about 0 minutes.

  • Locked thread