Tome 4: Overgrown poodles rasslin' with dragons

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Tome 4: Overgrown poodles rasslin' with dragons

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

turevidar posted:

Is there a reason that phase door and teleport fail around the weirdling beast? It consumes a turn but nothing happens and I don't see a message about it failing. I don't see how an archmage can get past him if I have to go toe to toe.

Use fire damage-over-times to take down the bone shield, then blow him the gently caress up before he can heal. For that matter, try not to have any unnecessary buffs/sustains of your own because he can eat them to heal. If you have a way to remove sustains do that first thing. If you're strong enough to be fighting him you should be able to kill him before he touches you, if not you came too early and you should be standing on the stairs so just bail out and come back in 10 levels before you head east. Oh also he has that dark beam that leaves a patch of glitter on the floor, don't stand in it cuz it does alot of damage, just move a tile off the stairs I guess. Or you can stand and tank it if you aren't taking damage from anything else and have enough hp, if you plan to bail when he gets close. Kiting him is a losing proposition without a move infusion and some good healing and frankly I don't think it's worth the risk for most classes, either you are strong enough to manfight him or you aren't.

Indecisive fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jan 19, 2015

# ? Jan 19, 2015 00:24

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 17:51

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Weirdling Beast is weird because it's super easy for some classes and super hard for others. A lot of it boils down to "how many sustains do you need to operate" and "how many damage ticks can you get off in one hit?"

# ? Jan 19, 2015 01:06

FH_Meta: Feb 20, 2011

Also important is 'How can you deal with the Beast's Healing Infusion.' My recent battle against the Beast basically came down to who got lucky with stuns, dazes, and Blood Lock (well, that last one just for me).

# ? Jan 19, 2015 21:37

NachtSieger: Apr 10, 2013

Professor Moriarty posted:

Sounds like 1.3 is just around the corner, if I'm not misunderstanding chat from last night. What's everyone going to do post-update?

I'll find something to complain about, after reading the patch notes. :argh:

# ? Jan 19, 2015 21:57

Nurge: Feb 4, 2009; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Got my second win on roguelike normal with yeek brawler. Time to move to nightmare.

http://te4.org/characters/18280/tome/f97687f9-1e4d-43c2-af40-f71859b2b326

Every sentient being in Eyal is now part of the Way. Peace and happiness are enforced for all.
:black101:

# ? Jan 22, 2015 19:28

ploots: Mar 19, 2010

I always have the best luck in Old Forest.

I look forward to regretting this decision.

e: Nevermind, it just dropped a really good 2 handed sword and started glowing. Too bad this character is a shield user.

If at first you don't succeed :devil:

ploots fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jan 25, 2015

# ? Jan 25, 2015 00:40

Velius: Feb 27, 2001

turevidar posted:

I always have the best luck in Old Forest.

I look forward to regretting this decision.

e: Nevermind, it just dropped a really good 2 handed sword and started glowing. Too bad this character is a shield user.

Those things are new to the expansion patch. They usually spawn a higher level demon but sometimes give a short duration buff and very infrequently give a random artifact.

# ? Jan 25, 2015 01:08

jetz0r: May 10, 2003; Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.

Velius posted:

Those things are new to the expansion patch. They usually spawn a higher level demon but sometimes give a short duration buff and very infrequently give a random artifact.

They mostly do nothing at all. The buffs/debuffs count as nothing, because they don't matter when you touch it out of combat and will be gone before you encounter another monster.

Large chance of nothing
Small chance of a demon
Tiny chance of an artifact

# ? Jan 25, 2015 01:41

FH_Meta: Feb 20, 2011

I had the buff once matter because of a combination of confusion, fumble-fingers, and luck.

# ? Jan 25, 2015 04:04

Nurge: Feb 4, 2009; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Any tips for building a 2H sun paladin from the experts? I got one to fortress on nightmare for the first time in a while, and I'm not sure what all is going to be good going to midgame. Path seems straight up kind of broken but I'm unsure about some of the other stuff in general and you can only maintain some of the sustains available well.

Here's where I'm at currently: http://te4.org/characters/18280/tome/7b2eb856-b46c-4100-b34e-f08fe1ea3b44

# ? Jan 25, 2015 08:38

NachtSieger: Apr 10, 2013

Nurge posted:

Any tips for building a 2H sun paladin from the experts? I got one to fortress on nightmare for the first time in a while, and I'm not sure what all is going to be good going to midgame. Path seems straight up kind of broken but I'm unsure about some of the other stuff in general and you can only maintain some of the sustains available well.

Here's where I'm at currently: http://te4.org/characters/18280/tome/7b2eb856-b46c-4100-b34e-f08fe1ea3b44

More Providence, more Flash of the blade (at least 4), max Wave of Power, max Second Life, Stunning Blow 4, Execution 1 (at least), and since you unlocked Radiance, get like, max Radiance, Searing Sight 4, and 1 in Judgment.

# ? Jan 25, 2015 11:39

ploots: Mar 19, 2010

From deep in the thread:

theshim posted:

Sun Paladins in 1.2

So Sun Paladins in 1.2 went from "super tanky but took forever to kill things" to "sun-infused machines of pure blinding destruction". There are two ways they can go, sword and shield or two-handed, and both are supremely good now! As expected, SnS is tankier while 2H hits harder, but both cover the other's strengths pretty drat well.

Sword and Shield: Your trees of choice are Shield Offense, which is as amazing as ever, and Guardian. For Shield Offense, you want 4 points in Counterstrike, and everything else is to taste. Of note is that in 1.2 the awful Overpower was replaced by the incredibly good Shield Slam, which hits an enemy with your shield three times (amazing for onhits) and then immediately blocks without checking or affecting Block's cooldown. This allows you to block a ton even without Eternal Guard, and is great even with one point. Shield Pummel and Assault are still Fantastic. Guardian has some amazing skills - Shield of Light both ups your damage and can almost negate chip damage, Brandish is whatever, Retribution is hilariously good at making you incredibly hard to kill and does a nasty spike of burst damage when it goes off, and Crusade is nice for the cooldown reduction if nothing else. You want some good 1h+shield combos - the Temporal Rift in particular is great. There is actually a sword and shield set now, but I haven't gotten it so I'm not sure how good it is

Two-handed: You miss out on Retribution but you do get some insane stuff to make up for it. In Two-Handed Assault I like to max Stunning Blow for the duration, everything else can be left at 1 or pumped as you choose. The guaranteed crit on Execution is craaaaazy good! But the real meat of the build is in the Crusader tree. Absorption Strike is nice for replenishing some positive energy and setting a target up for more light damage. Mark of Light can give you absurd amounts of sustain against bosses, you just keep smashing them and healing off it. Righteous Strength is a sustain that just makes you monstrously strong as a melee combatant. But Flash of the Blade is just absurd - a massive AoE attack that at rank 4 makes you immune to damage for 1 turn. 1.2 also added Champion's Will, a 2-handed sword made for Sun Paladins that makes them titans of destruction, so if at all possible you want that.

Both: The Celestial/Combat tree is amazing regardless of which you use. Weapon of Light, in addition to dealing some extra damage, prolongs shields - particularly amazing on the Rune of Reflection. Wave of Power is a viciously powerful attack at range, and with points invested and high strength can hit targets at range 10 twice with a 75% chance, which is really useful for dealing with ranged enemies given Sun Paladins' relative immobility. Weapon of Wrath doesn't scale well above two or three points but is nice for that. Second Life is just awesome, instead of dying you instead get healed for over 1000 life easy. As for the Sun tree, Sun's Vengeance is the important one there, but to make good use of the effect on it you really should max out Sun Ray (but I never do). Path of the Sun is also important, though - it's one of the few mobility skills you have! Good use of Path of the Sun can allow you to get out of bad situations or close the gap on nasty foes, so don't forget about it. Radiance is pure preference for the category point - the light is nice, the blind resist is great, and the constant dazing of enemies can be quite nice for some passive crowd control. I've heard people swear by Judgment but the damage on it looks underwhelming. I do like to unlock and max Rush just for the extra mobility, it is useful.

For generics, Sun Paladins don't have too many trees, but what trees they have are amazing, so with a good racial you probably won't unlock any new ones from escorts. You get Light, which is still one of the best generic trees in the game and makes Skeleton Sun Paladins surprisingly excellent. The new Chants are all incredibly good, but you either want to max the first or third - a choice of either a ton of extra hp and saves or a hefty chunk of allres. You really can't go wrong there! You'll also want the standard 20 points in Combat Training ASAP, so you're pretty well covered for generics. I ran a Skeleton and a Shalore and both performed excellently.

Your pattern of play is pretty simple: walk up to fools and crush them. You'll be pretty tanky thanks to your Chant alone regardless of your build, and you'll have heals and shields for days. You'll want to run probably a wild, a teleport, and a third rune of your choice early. Your level 10 category point should go to Crusader or Guardian, and your level 20 I like to unlock Rush with, as that's when mobility really starts being an issue. Whether you want Radiance or 5 inscriptions is up to you. Make good use of Path of the Sun for both gapclosing and escaping, it's quite versatile. Good Prodigies include Arcane Might, Irresistible Sun (on theme), Eternal Guard/Spectral Shield, Flexible Combat, Windblade, Steamroller.

The one major tip is that you should probably have Bathe in Light on autocast when no enemies are visible or the like - if you keep your positive energy maxed out going into fights you will be much more effective. The many sustains of Sun Paladins was one of the new balancing factors on them - especially early when your total pool is low, keeping a large number of (admittedly awesome) sustains up will give you a very small pool to actually use your abilities with. Later on this becomes less of an issue.

I think that covers it pretty well.

# ? Jan 25, 2015 13:09

Nurge: Feb 4, 2009; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Awesome, thanks for the help.

# ? Jan 25, 2015 16:29

Professor Moriarty: May 16, 2007; strong vs. Earth attacks

My most recent win was a sword n' board Dwarf Sun Paladin. Pretty much sleepwalked my way up High Peak. Atamathon took some effort but went down on my first attempt. Still have no idea how I'd take down Linaniil with him, though...

# ? Jan 26, 2015 06:43

Fungah!: Apr 30, 2011

Professor Moriarty posted:

My most recent win was a sword n' board Dwarf Sun Paladin. Pretty much sleepwalked my way up High Peak. Atamathon took some effort but went down on my first attempt. Still have no idea how I'd take down Linaniil with him, though...

My Linaniil fight fell apart somewhere around her fourth or fifth life. I couldn't keep up with the damage and status effects and just ate poo poo. I think your best bet is to clear out the rest of the mages on an early life, then kite her around either that two-laned corridor near her or something else that blocks LoS with PotS and a movement infusion or something. then only go toe-to-toe with her when Retribution's up and you have a way to deal with getting hosed on for a turn

# ? Jan 26, 2015 07:58

Fhqwhgads: Jul 18, 2003; I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID

I'm trying to get back into this after a while away, is there a list of must-have usability mods? I didn't see one in the OP.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 02:03

Chakan: Mar 30, 2011

There are none. There are a couple cool mods, but most just add a class or race with varying levels of balance and interesting gameplay.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 02:39

Bumper Stickup: Jan 7, 2012; Mmm... Offshore Toast!; Grimey Drawer

Corner only threat brackets is the only interface mod I use. And even then it's not necessary at all.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 02:47

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

There's a rest / auto-explore tweaks mod that helps with a lot of dumb edge cases and cooldowns that the default one doesn't respect.

e: Unfortunately it doesn't play nicely with the current implementation of Paradox, but maybe the guy's just waiting for the chronomancy rework.

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jan 27, 2015

# ? Jan 27, 2015 03:25

Mystery Prize: Nov 7, 2010

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

But base it on the brief period around 0.4.x where Xom was accidentally made into one of the stronger options for winning the game.

I play a ton of Xom nowadays but I started crawl around 0.7 so I must have missed this. What made him good for that patch?

# ? Jan 27, 2015 03:30

jetz0r: May 10, 2003; Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.

Fhqwhgads posted:

I'm trying to get back into this after a while away, is there a list of must-have usability mods? I didn't see one in the OP.

Faster Run/Rest/Explore , and Go to Landmark are nice. I also use Alternate Zones Option to disable the alt-zones that break auto-explore.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 03:36

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

Mystery Prize posted:

I play a ton of Xom nowadays but I started crawl around 0.7 so I must have missed this. What made him good for that patch?

IIRC there was a way to abuse him to get tons of good mutations

# ? Jan 27, 2015 03:42

StevieWonder: Dec 27, 2012

Improved Player Targeting

http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/qqq

Corner-Only Threat Brackets (so the threat bracket doesn't hide health bars)

Store Wish List

Enhanced Object Compare

(and faster run/rest/explore like everyone else.)

# ? Jan 27, 2015 03:45

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Indecisive posted:

IIRC there was a way to abuse him to get tons of good mutations

Yeah. They made a change that was supposed to make him amused when a corpse ticked over from fresh to rotten while you were in the middle of butchering it. Instead it amused him any time you butchered rotten meat, which is to say, you could max out Xom-favor with one of the most common items in the game.

The funny thing is that even with this game-breaking bug causing him to shower you with positive-weighted random mutations and other gifts, he still wasn't anywhere near as busted as Vehumet was by design. I kind of wish they'd left it in, but they wanted mutations to be associated with a different god and reworked Xom completely not long after that.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 03:49

theshim: May 1, 2012; You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Every time I'm slightly tempted to play Crawl again I remember that you can't start as a Chaos Knight of Makhleb anymore and :argh:

BLOOD AND SOULS FOR MAKHLEB!!

# ? Jan 27, 2015 04:19

Nurge: Feb 4, 2009; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Thanks again for the tips. Managed to get my first Nightmare Roguelike win with my dwarf sun paladin. It wasn't crazy difficult, although the level ramp up in high peak made me scrabble for accuracy equipment a bit and I had to skip a few of the stair guardians. On to insane difficulty next I guess, although I'm not seriously expecting to ever win that.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 11:54

Voxx: Jul 28, 2009; I'll give 'em a hold
and a break to breathe
And if they can't play nice
I won't play with 'em at all

Fhqwhgads posted:

I'm trying to get back into this after a while away, is there a list of must-have usability mods? I didn't see one in the OP.

I use 'Somebody shut that dog up!' and Tier-1 short circuit.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 14:30

A Meat: Jun 28, 2013; CERTIFIED FRESH AS HELL DOC MAKER

In case anybody missed it, the beta test for 1.3. has begun

http://te4.org/beta-test

The new stuff is revamped chronomancy, tweaked wyrmics and a new race: Ogres, along with UI and engine fixes and changes.

# ? Feb 8, 2015 09:11

jetz0r: May 10, 2003; Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.

I saw a tome update on steam and got so excited.
Still wasn't 1.3

# ? Feb 14, 2015 10:26

SageAcrin: Apr 23, 2014; there was a mean thing here before, but now there is a dog

At last check, 1.3 was in feature freeze, aka "No, seriously, don't add anything more to this version so we can make sure any major bugs are ironed out and release".

This still can take a while though, but I'd imagine it'll be out in a week or so at this point. (Possibly way sooner.)

# ? Feb 14, 2015 18:31

Bob NewSCART: Feb 1, 2012; Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."

So my workshop mods are just not installing at all. I've resubscribed to them, disabled steam overlay, wait at menu for several minutes for them to install and nothing. Anyone have any ideas?

# ? Feb 14, 2015 18:40

Awesome!: Oct 17, 2008; Ready for adventure!

Professor Moriarty posted:

My most recent win was a sword n' board Dwarf Sun Paladin. Pretty much sleepwalked my way up High Peak. Atamathon took some effort but went down on my first attempt. Still have no idea how I'd take down Linaniil with him, though...

i was just looking at this sheet and noticed the breeding pits restoration project mod. it looks like the breeding pits was a dungeon that got cut because there was a line of dialogue that referenced hitler or something? lol. is there any reason to not use that?

# ? Feb 14, 2015 20:14

Dirk the Average: Feb 7, 2012; "This may have been a mistake."

Awesome! posted:

i was just looking at this sheet and noticed the breeding pits restoration project mod. it looks like the breeding pits was a dungeon that got cut because there was a line of dialogue that referenced hitler or something? lol. is there any reason to not use that?

Do you like fifty foot tall walking orc vagina monstrosities? Do you enjoy slaughtering orc children straight out of their mother (spawn-camping, if you will)? Do you enjoy extraordinarily overly detailed descriptions of these events? If so, then that might be the mod for you!

In all seriousness, it was cut because it was disgusting. The theory is interesting - the body horror of orcs, forced down to the last remaining members of their species, converting their women into breeding monstrosities capable of creating legions of corrupted orcs capable of waging war. There's also the stuff about the researchers who did it coming to grips with what they'd done and killing themselves, but the whole thing was written poorly, designed poorly, and added very little to the plot. Would have been much more sensible to just have created orc breeding vats or something rather than going full Tleilaxu.

# ? Feb 14, 2015 20:45

Tin Tim: Jun 4, 2012; Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Has the orc patrol rate in the east been tweaked by now? Cause you know, that was like the number 1 reason to clear the pits

# ? Feb 14, 2015 20:55

Metal Meltdown: Mar 27, 2010

Tin Tim posted:

Has the orc patrol rate in the east been tweaked by now? Cause you know, that was like the number 1 reason to clear the pits

Yes, it's far more reasonable. I'd say it's maybe a tad higher than the Zigur patrols of the West in terms of density.

# ? Feb 15, 2015 00:28

Magres: Jul 14, 2011

Dirk the Average posted:

Would have been much more sensible to just have created orc breeding vats or something rather than going full Tleilaxu.

I regret everything about looking up Tleilaxu and god I'm glad I've read Dune and nothing else by Frank Herbert :stare:

# ? Feb 15, 2015 17:49

Dirk the Average: Feb 7, 2012; "This may have been a mistake."

Magres posted:

I regret everything about looking up Tleilaxu and god I'm glad I've read Dune and nothing else by Frank Herbert

Thankfully most everything about the Tleilaxu is only hinted at or implied, and there isn't anything even remotely on the level of the breeding pits descriptions. Also, it helps that most or all of the Tleilaxu's stuff is filtered through characters who are utterly loving horrified at what is going on. Most of the revelations about them come one book at a time, so it's paced very slowly and is kind of a creeping horror thing as they go from weird dudes who make life saving prosthetics and such to absolute monsters.

Dirk the Average fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 15, 2015

# ? Feb 15, 2015 18:01

Professor Moriarty: May 16, 2007; strong vs. Earth attacks

Stuntofthelitter is providing his services to repair anyone's broken savegames. Submit your zipped savefile & vague, unhelpful description of the problem to: http://tome.gatheringspot.org/hesk/

# ? Feb 16, 2015 07:44

Tin Tim: Jun 4, 2012; Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Has the mage city been changed? I can't see the mage that you need to give an arcane artifact to unlock it.

# ? Feb 16, 2015 19:43

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 17:51

No Safe Word: Feb 26, 2005

Tin Tim posted:

Has the mage city been changed? I can't see the mage that you need to give an arcane artifact to unlock it.

Are you antimagic? I think he doesn't show up if you are, much like Zigur won't show up if you have certain resource bars.

# ? Feb 16, 2015 20:03

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