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I would take a look at Epsilon and Rarity. It's surprising to me that they weren't the ones targeted last night with all the talk about being possible lovers.
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Feb 28, 2015 05:00
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Abyssal Squid posted:We were explicitly told this was a cult game, and there hasn't been a single night with two scum kills. It looks like we've got a standard cult vs mafia situation here, with the added Fire and Ice wrinkle. I looked up the characters who flipped werewolf and vampire: the werewolf guy is a werewolf that's his thing, the vampire guy is just a bard with nothing to do with vampires, so he probably was "recruited." Idea: vampires recruit like a cult, werewolves have nightkills like scum? Like, setup spec is usually not a great plan but Glockenapfel hasn't played to his stated win condition all game and there's got to be a reason for that! This game is obviously not behaving by normal Mafia rules. I legitimately think Glockenapfel has a very good chance of being scum of some kind. Also: Abyssal Squid posted:We were explicitly told this was a cult game Well, Good Sir told us this was a cult game. I think there's a chance he may be lying. I still think Glockenapfel is the better choice but Good Sir is a good possibility, as well.
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Feb 28, 2015 05:12
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Abyssal Squid posted:This is true, but with some caveats. One, confirmed town who gets converted by a standard cult gains no powers. Two, they often lose what powers they've had before, so if they're still taking night actions then you can say they were town at the start of that night. So they shouldn't be above suspicion, but they're a lower priority than the cult leader or werewolves. The "powers" bit means nothing, especially for something like an oracle when you can basically make poo poo up. That said I also think Good Sir is town still, I'm just making a point. (Also, lmao @ the "watch Ulfric start a loving war" oracle result)
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Feb 28, 2015 05:26
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Epsilon Plus posted:Idea: vampires recruit like a cult, werewolves have nightkills like scum? That's been what I've figured since the reveal that there's a cult. I've come around to the idea that Glockenapfel is likely a cult convert, but I'm still not sure a 1-for-1 non-scum for scum tradeoff is a good deal when we're potentially losing two non-scum a night.
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Feb 28, 2015 05:41
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A cult game with two scum teams seems quite unlikely. Then again, an unlimited town night vig seemed incredibly unlikely, so I loving don't know anything anymore.
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Feb 28, 2015 05:50
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Abyssal Squid posted:That's been what I've figured since the reveal that there's a cult. Let me clarify: based on what I'm thinking the game could be, there's no "cult" - the vampires recruit like a cult, but are still a scum team. They just recruit instead of killing. That would explain why there's only been one nightkill a night - except N2. In most Fire and Ice games each scum team targeting the same person means the kill fails. Maybe both kills and converts fail? Vampires tried to convert whoever werewolves tried to kill and that person lucked out and survived. In short, if Glockenapfel was recruited by a cult, that cult is also scum. Lunching him would be lunching scum. Am I missing something?
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Feb 28, 2015 05:59
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Lore speculation, but aren't werewolves also kind of infectious? I don't know Skyrim werewolves. Do you become a werewolf if one of them bites you?
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Feb 28, 2015 06:04
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Abyssal Squid posted:Shadowglass. I was waiting for him to post anything at all to see how he reacted, but it looks like just about everybody else has come to the party. I've tried to track Meinberg, but I couldn't find him. So I guess he is double-confirmed town now. And if I understand what hider does, he can't be targeted with any night action, so he'd be safe from cult recruiters too. With that said I don't get Meinberg's behavior in this game. If he is completely immune to any action, there was no need to be so cagey and scummy. Shouldn't he have tried to be loud and draw the scum's attention so they'd waste their kills on him? Especially with two scum teams. Anyway, it doesn't matter now.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:09
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Epsilon Plus posted:Let me clarify: based on what I'm thinking the game could be, there's no "cult" - the vampires recruit like a cult, but are still a scum team. They just recruit instead of killing. That would explain why there's only been one nightkill a night - except N2. In most Fire and Ice games each scum team targeting the same person means the kill fails. Maybe both kills and converts fail? Vampires tried to convert whoever werewolves tried to kill and that person lucked out and survived. You're describing a standard cult there, what you're missing is that only the cult leader can recruit. It's possible that recruits can themselves recruit, but it's not typical.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:15
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Abyssal Squid posted:I've come around to the idea that Glockenapfel is likely a cult convert, but I'm still not sure a 1-for-1 non-scum for scum tradeoff is a good deal when we're potentially losing two non-scum a night.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:26
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Abyssal Squid posted:I've come around to the idea that Glockenapfel is likely a cult convert, but I'm still not sure a 1-for-1 non-scum for scum tradeoff is a good deal when we're potentially losing two non-scum a night. Then can you explain what this means? I'm starting to feel like a goddamn crazy person. Who is "non-scum" in this context? If you're saying Glockenapfel is "non-scum", he's clearly scum* - I think the idea of two scum teams and a cult would be pretty bonkers. What I'm hearing from you is there are instances where he's obvious scum but we don't want to lynch him and, while I understand those possibilities, I'd like to hear what you think is going on with some specificity. * I think he's scum. Obviously we can't confirm that right now.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:29
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ShadowGlass posted:Sorry Squid I don't follow this. What would be the 1-for-1 tradeoff here? If the town kills Glockenapfel, Chic Trombone leaves the game. We take out one scum, but at the cost of losing a non-scum vote, and we do nothing to stop the cult from spreading. There is only one person who can spread the cult, and it's absolutely not Glockenapfel, because he'd be a recruit. Cult recruits don't have any powers other than their vote and probably access to their team's scumdoc.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:41
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Except I'm not scum in any shape or form. I haven't been recruited. This is the last time I'll say this, but if you want me to help vote off scum, I'll vote with the town consensus and you can lynch me after. If you want to lynch me this game day, go for it, but just remember you'll be down by 2 afterwards plus the night kill and it'll basically be scum's game at that point. Since I can't win either way, I'm on cruise control after this point. Good luck.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:42
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Abyssal Squid posted:If the town kills Glockenapfel, Chic Trombone leaves the game. We take out one scum, but at the cost of losing a non-scum vote, and we do nothing to stop the cult from spreading. Abyssal Squid posted:Cult recruits don't have any powers other than their vote and probably access to their team's scumdoc.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:55
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Abyssal Squid posted:If the town kills Glockenapfel, Chic Trombone leaves the game. We take out one scum, but at the cost of losing a non-scum vote, and we do nothing to stop the cult from spreading. Okay, okay. I follow now. I think that if Opop got a limitless vig that the all cult members being able to be recruited is plausible, though. But I get what you're saying.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:58
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Epsilon Plus posted:Let me clarify: based on what I'm thinking the game could be, there's no "cult" - the vampires recruit like a cult, but are still a scum team. They just recruit instead of killing. That would explain why there's only been one nightkill a night - except N2. In most Fire and Ice games each scum team targeting the same person means the kill fails. Maybe both kills and converts fail? Vampires tried to convert whoever werewolves tried to kill and that person lucked out and survived.
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Feb 28, 2015 07:04
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ShadowGlass posted:How would this work exactly? One scum team recruits, one kills? I'd imagine they'd need to kill each other, based on the the Fire and Ice setup, but then the cult could only do that by the executions? Wouldn't that be unbalanced? Well, first off, this game may not be the most balanced  But yeah, I think that's it. Maybe once all the town are gone, it just goes by majority?
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Feb 28, 2015 07:11
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Epsilon Plus posted:Yeah, yeah, Chic has really given you an Honourable Mafia Duel. dummy. You literally did not play to your win condition. There is no reason to never put a single vote, during the entire game, on the player that will make you win! Why are you giving Glock poo poo for this when Chic did exactly the same thing until RIGHT NOW?
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Feb 28, 2015 09:24
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Rarity posted:Why are you giving Glock poo poo for this when Chic did exactly the same thing until RIGHT NOW? Ah wait, I missed the investigation part of the claim. Never mind!
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Feb 28, 2015 09:25
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Epsilon Plus posted:Let me clarify: based on what I'm thinking the game could be, there's no "cult" - the vampires recruit like a cult, but are still a scum team. They just recruit instead of killing. That would explain why there's only been one nightkill a night - except N2. In most Fire and Ice games each scum team targeting the same person means the kill fails. Maybe both kills and converts fail? Vampires tried to convert whoever werewolves tried to kill and that person lucked out and survived. This does seem rather unbalanced all in all. I'd think it would be much easier for cult to win than mafia if that setup's true.
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Feb 28, 2015 09:30
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ShadowGlass posted:I've tried to track Meinberg, but I couldn't find him. So I guess he is double-confirmed town now. And if I understand what hider does, he can't be targeted with any night action, so he'd be safe from cult recruiters too. You... You targeted the confirmed hider...  
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Feb 28, 2015 09:31
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Guys. Guys! I think it's massclaim time.
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Feb 28, 2015 09:36
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Rarity posted:You... ##vote ShadowGlass Seriously dude. Also, in my experience, the best way to draw scum attention is by keeping things low key, rather than by making a lot of noise. The more you talk in the chat, the more information that the town receives by your flip, so the ideal target for scum is a lurker.
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Feb 28, 2015 12:50
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Rarity posted:You... All day I'd figured the vampires tried to convert Meinberg last night, because unless there were only two werewolves to start with, vampires failed twice while werewolves only failed once. So yeah, I think we've got our vampire recruiter here. Definitely think it's massclaim time though. Also, I'll say it outright, I think the boon for hammering scum is a night of immunity to scum kill/conversion, so I think Meinberg should be the hammer today.
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Feb 28, 2015 13:41
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Abyssal Squid posted:All day I'd figured the vampires tried to convert Meinberg last night, because unless there were only two werewolves to start with, vampires failed twice while werewolves only failed once. So yeah, I think we've got our vampire recruiter here. Definitely think it's massclaim time though. I still have some thoughts I want to get out before we get into lynching. But massclaim first. I'm plain old VT, my flavour is Hadvar
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Feb 28, 2015 13:49
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I'm Drevis Neloren, illusionist at the College of Mages. I'm a hider, but I can only do it every other night.
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Feb 28, 2015 13:54
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Btw before anyone asks, I did give the one-shot of track to Shadowglass.
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Feb 28, 2015 14:23
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Rarity posted:You...
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Feb 28, 2015 14:24
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Meinberg posted:Also, in my experience, the best way to draw scum attention is by keeping things low key, rather than by making a lot of noise. The more you talk in the chat, the more information that the town receives by your flip, so the ideal target for scum is a lurker.
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Feb 28, 2015 14:29
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I'm Ysolda, Vanilla Town.
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Feb 28, 2015 14:31
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ShadowGlass posted:He was only confirmed by you, Rarity. And you're pretty high on my "probably scum" list. I didn't push it when you confirmed him, exactly because I knew I could verify it. So what do you think now that you know I was telling the truth?
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Feb 28, 2015 14:42
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Rarity posted:So what do you think now that you know I was telling the truth? Telling the truth in itself wouldn't clear you. You might do that as scum too, for town cred, since whoever the hider was would have confirmed your story. However, what we know for sure is that you used your masonry item twice. If we follow standard Maffia rules, then you couldn't have done other night actions (killing, recruiting, whatever) at the same time. This means you're less likely scum, especially since you used it around the same time when Opop was killing them, so there'd be fewer of them to do kills, etc.
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Feb 28, 2015 15:01
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ShadowGlass posted:Telling the truth in itself wouldn't clear you. You might do that as scum too, for town cred, since whoever the hider was would have confirmed your story. I like this answer. Still annoyed you tracked the hider though 
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Feb 28, 2015 15:03
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While you are here, who is the scum? I'm not buying the case on Glock. His last post felt sincere, I generally had townish vibes from him all game (which is funny, because 3P), and the case is pretty much "well, he could have been recruited". My top scum candidate is Gabe, but I don't have the energy right now to case him. I'll look at him more closely tomorrow. One thing I remember is that during the the Ecco-Byers:Episode 2, he pushed the Byers-AnNarc scumbuddies accusation, which is interesting if he knew Byers will be town.
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Feb 28, 2015 15:20
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ShadowGlass posted:While you are here, who is the scum? I have thoughts but I want to see everyone else's claims first before I put them out there in case something comes up that changes what I'm thinking.
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Feb 28, 2015 15:26
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I'm Falion the conjurer. I am technically a Miller because I am a spooky sneaky guy the townsfolk don't trust, but we appear to have lynched the only investigative role anyhow.
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Feb 28, 2015 16:06
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Glockenapfel posted:Town We should have at least 2 original scum roles out there, possibly 3 or even 4 if it's not actually a cult game. Meinberg is probably not originally scum aligned, although scum hider may be plausible with 2 scum teams. Ditto Abyssal and Good Sir. Glock and Chic are basically confirmed to have started non-scum. Unless most of the original scum had power roles, this makes it likely that most or all out of Rarity/EPlus/ShadowGlass are scum.
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Feb 28, 2015 16:14
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While we're waiting on Epsilon I have a question for Chic and Glock. Assuming this is a cult game, what do you think happens to you if you get your opposing target lynched but you've been recruited?
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Feb 28, 2015 18:37
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Rarity posted:While we're waiting on Epsilon I have a question for Chic and Glock. Assuming this is a cult game, what do you think happens to you if you get your opposing target lynched but you've been recruited? In all the cult games I've seen, the recruitee's win con changes. So for us there'd be value to the lynch if it fits with the new win con, but there'd be no leaving the game. This is one of the reasons I was skeptical about a cult, because it would invalidate the war theme.
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Feb 28, 2015 18:51
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I am Madesi, pawnbroker, a VT. No abilities, no items. Also I will not get much done today until work ends but I'm starting to rethink some things. ##unvote for now. I'd really appreciate more input on my Glockenapfel quasi-case because I'm not believing him making zero effort on his wincon.
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Feb 28, 2015 21:31
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