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you can't use luna with anima magic though
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Mar 2, 2015 00:43
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Melth posted:Anima magic ... 3) is just as effective for achieving ultimate cosmic power 4) doesn't inevitably lead to death or worse. This I don't agree with. A lot of the out-of-combat applications of dark magic seem unmatched by Anima (or Light). Even in 19xx there's the magic fog, and then there's all of Nergal's spoiler stuff. You could even call Kishuna's field an offshoot of (an offshoot of) dark magic, though I don't think the game itself ever does. Anima magic feels much more like...I don't know, the Destruction school from Skyrim. "Fire, bigger fire, even bigger fire. Zap, bigger zap, even bigger zap." It lacks versatility, even implied off-screen versatility.
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Mar 2, 2015 00:46
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Anima is just as likely to make you extremely long-lived, it seems. But the other really useful school of magic is Staves - they include healing, defense, Teleportation (besides Warp and Rescue, I'm pretty sure all the other teleportation in this game is an offshoot of them). And on that tangent, staves are a school of magic that every magic user gains access to. Oh one person says they can only be used by the just, but a simple look back at FE6 and it's various evil bishops shows that Serra was just spouting propaganda. Even Nergal is a master of Staff magic, he just doesn't use it because there's no one on his side he sees as worth keeping alive.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:00
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Fire Emblem Conspiracy Theory: Anyone can use a staff with basic training, regardless of magical talent. Various organizations keep this a secret to preserve their monopoly on healing. The whole FE10 plot is an omnidirectional false flag to cover up Big Staff's need to stop Micaiah from eroding their power.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:11
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Dorothy's supports with Jodel mention that she can't use Staves despite wanting to.
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Mar 2, 2015 02:05
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Btw, for anyone who is curious...Melth is wrong about one thing. It is actually possible to get Nils to Level 7 while still S ranking Lyn Hard Mode at the same time if you keep letting enemies attack him on Chapter 10 (thereby giving him effectively 14 Exp. per turn rather than 10). In fact, I've actually done it, although I had to use a good bit of RNG manipulation (mostly so your Combat score isn't completely tanked by the end). Would anyone be interested in seeing such a run (I have the notes all written down and everything)?
Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 02:06
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Fionordequester posted:Btw, for anyone who is curious...Melth is wrong about one thing. It is actually possible to get Nils to Level 7 while still S ranking Lyn Hard Mode at the same time if you keep letting enemies attack him on Chapter 10 (thereby giving him effectively 14 Exp. per turn rather than 10). In fact, I've actually done it, although I had to use a good bit of RNG manipulation (mostly so your Combat score isn't completely tanked by the end). Would anyone be interested in seeing it? *raises hand*
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Mar 2, 2015 02:12
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Fionordequester posted:Btw, for anyone who is curious...Melth is wrong about one thing. It is actually possible to get Nils to Level 7 while still S ranking Lyn Hard Mode at the same time if you keep letting enemies attack him on Chapter 10 (thereby giving him effectively 14 Exp. per turn rather than 10). In fact, I've actually done it, although I had to use a good bit of RNG manipulation (mostly so your Combat score isn't completely tanked by the end). Would anyone be interested in seeing it? I'd thought about the whole letting enemies attack him thing to boost XP, but as far as I could calculate that wouldn't work. I'd be interested in seeing this. How many turns did you complete each pre-Nils chapter in?
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Mar 2, 2015 02:12
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Melth posted:I'd thought about the whole letting enemies attack him thing to boost XP, but as far as I could calculate that wouldn't work. I'd be interested in seeing this. How many turns did you complete each pre-Nils chapter in? Prologue: 5 Turns Chapter 1: 5 Turns Chapter 2: 4 Turns Chapter 3: 4 Turns Chapter 4: 8 Turns (because you know, stupid game mechanics add on another turn) Chapter 5: 3 Turns Chapter 6: 4 Turns And just for the sake of it, I'll include the rest of the turns as well... Chapter 7: 3 Turns Chapter 7x: 5 Turns, Chapter 8: 3 Turns Chapter 9: 3 Turns Chapter 10: 35 Turns
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Mar 2, 2015 02:17
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Sorites posted:This I don't agree with. A lot of the out-of-combat applications of dark magic seem unmatched by Anima (or Light). Even in 19xx there's the magic fog, and then there's all of Nergal's spoiler stuff. You could even call Kishuna's field an offshoot of (an offshoot of) dark magic, though I don't think the game itself ever does. But actually we're shown that anima masters can do all sorts of awesome stuff too. There's no indication that any of Athos and Nergal's collaborative projects like creating an oasis in Arcadia could have been done only by Nergal. And it's said to be Athos in particular who created the permanent sandstorm around the village. And loads of anima users teleport around at will or have magical super senses and whatnot. Another thing is that while stealing quintessence and creating morphs is said to be evil magic, I'm not sure it's actually said to be dark magic per se. Maybe there's a line I'm just not remembering? People often talk as though Ereshkigal is the quintessence-stealing magic, but there's really no indication that that's the case. For one thing, Limstella can't use that, but she's always running around collecting quintessence. It looks more likely to me that Ereshkigal is just Nergal's serious battle magic for killing people before taking their quintessences with something that isn't necessarily a tome at all.
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Mar 2, 2015 02:21
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Fionordequester posted:Btw, for anyone who is curious...Melth is wrong about one thing. It is actually possible to get Nils to Level 7 while still S ranking Lyn Hard Mode at the same time if you keep letting enemies attack him on Chapter 10 (thereby giving him effectively 14 Exp. per turn rather than 10). In fact, I've actually done it, although I had to use a good bit of RNG manipulation (mostly so your Combat score isn't completely tanked by the end). Would anyone be interested in seeing such a run (I have the notes all written down and everything)? I think it'd be very much in the spirit of the thread to show it. The spirit of this thread is amazing strategy and awesome Sain level ups, right?
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Mar 2, 2015 02:49
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Athos has an S rank in dark magic.
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Mar 2, 2015 02:49
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I don't know about Ereshkigal, but Athos is S-rank in Dark magic as well as everything else. It's actually kind of strange, now that I think about it, and seems to break the rule about losing your mind. e;f;b
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Mar 2, 2015 02:51
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Melth posted:I think what you're missing though is that Teodor is deliberately letting dark magic destroy him. That's not a possible side effect that surely wouldn't happen to him; it's a step he regards as entirely necessary and not a big deal. He out and out says that "One's self is a small and insignificant sacrifice." You're conflating "Teodor" with "everyone" though. Teodor doesn't give a poo poo if his self gets annihilated. Teodor is an outlier, he all but says so himself. Unless your goal is "ultimate power for its own sake" like Teodor's is, I will 100% guarantee you you're not going into your magical studies thinking that losing yourself is a certainty, you're thinking, at most, that it's an acceptable risk, if indeed you're considering that at all. It's not even a trope, it's actual human behavior.
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Mar 2, 2015 02:58
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After all, Niime's been doing it for decades, is in her 70's and is just the same as ever. Her purpose for studying it was fear of dragons. It is not inevitable to fall into losing yourself. but it's always a possibility. Because Dark magic is the magic of knowledge, Anima magic is the magic of nature, and Light magic is the magic of faith.
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Mar 2, 2015 03:22
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Onmi posted:Because Dark magic is the magic of knowledge, Anima magic is the magic of nature, and Light magic is the magic of faith. I remember that Knoll explains that that's how it is in Magvel, but I don't remember a similar conversation in Elibe. Is there a support I'm forgetting?
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Mar 2, 2015 04:16
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Melth posted:I remember that Knoll explains that that's how it is in Magvel, but I don't remember a similar conversation in Elibe. Is there a support I'm forgetting? In Canas support with Pent, Canas mentions that Pent looks to be an adept in the magics of nature, Canas himself brings up Dark is knowledge (Well Darkness, but everything we learn about Dark magic is that it requires a keen mind), which leaves Light as faith.
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Mar 2, 2015 04:26
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Well, Canas refers to Anima as the magic of nature in his supports with Pent, at least. Also, for our discussions on the debilitating effects of "elder" magic, Canas' support with Pent says that he's not concerned that these bad things will happen to him, only that they always could. Which is a pretty key distinction to make; we see that there are people who can stay clear of that, like Niime. Odds are decent that many shamans think that, oh no, they got this -- if various unpleasant ends can be avoided, then they'll surely do so. And if they can make it out on top, then what's the harm in letting a little more of the darkness inside for a little extra power? A little more. Just a bit. And so on. Edit: f;b (on some of it, anyway)
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Mar 2, 2015 04:35
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The problem with talking about the schools of magic in FE games is that we never see them used for non-combat purposes. Even Athos whipping up an eternal sandstorm is a destructive application of anima's natural bend. Our only perspectives on how dark magic works from heroic characters are Canas's family in FE6 and 7, and they're all hosed up in their own ways. Anima and light could theoretically have non-violent applications with their tomes we see in games, but we have literally no idea what dark magic can do outside of combat.
poorlywrittennovel fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 04:47
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poorlywrittennovel posted:The problem with talking about the schools of magic in FE games is that we never see them used for non-combat purposes. Even Athos whipping up an eternal sandstorm is a destructive application of anima's natural bend. Our only perspectives on how dark magic works from heroic characters are Canas's family in FE6 and 7, and they're all hosed up in their own ways. Anima and light could theoretically have non-violent applications with their tomes we see in games, but we have literally no idea what dark magic can do outside of combat. There is Niime's flash freeze in Ilia, That seems to be Anima but she of course, is a Druid.
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Mar 2, 2015 04:58
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Onmi posted:There is Niime's flash freeze in Ilia, That seems to be Anima but she of course, is a Druid. That's another screwy thing about the GBA dark mages, they're called Shamans and Druids which are almost invariably faith/ nature casters everywhere else. (See also: DnD). Definite mixed signals. And yeah, I get that a lot of names are for space issues, but if cavalier fits, then dark mage probably would (and if not, hex mage definitely would).
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Mar 2, 2015 06:14
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Ryushikaze posted:That's another screwy thing about the GBA dark mages, they're called Shamans and Druids which are almost invariably faith/ nature casters everywhere else. (See also: DnD). Definite mixed signals. I can't explain that away in Sacred Stones except as just not wanting to change it for the GBA titles, but I can think of one good possible reason for that in the Elibe titles. See, Dark magic is also "elder" magic. Traditional magic. Shamanism and druidism are traditional, ancient sorts of religions. So by naming dark mages "shamans', they might have been trying to stress that this is an ancient, traditional form of magic tied in to the ancient religions of Elibe, in contrast to the newer faith of St. Elimine and the associated light magic. D3m3 posted:Also, for our discussions on the debilitating effects of "elder" magic, Canas' support with Pent says that he's not concerned that these bad things will happen to him, only that they always could. Which is a pretty key distinction to make; we see that there are people who can stay clear of that, like Niime. Odds are decent that many shamans think that, oh no, they got this -- if various unpleasant ends can be avoided, then they'll surely do so. And if they can make it out on top, then what's the harm in letting a little more of the darkness inside for a little extra power? A little more. Just a bit. And so on. Wait, but you're forgetting that Canas doesn't just say that "There is no guarantee that I will not join them", he also goes on to say that, "It will be my undoing." That's not a maybe. He's sure studying dark magic is going to destroy him. Just maybe not in exactly the same way it did his brothers. Maybe he'll end up basically comatose like them. Maybe he'll end up a different person as he loses his memories like Nergal, maybe he'll end up some kind of bizarre transhuman being like Bramimond. Or maybe he'll just bite off more than he can chew digging around in bandit-infested deserts or skulking about the Dread Isle or trying to control a blizzard. But he definitely sounds sure that this is going to be the death of him or worse one way or another. ... ... also I just realized the possible connection between Canas and his wife trying and failing to control a blizzard and Niime actually managing it in the next game. Onmi posted:In Canas support with Pent, Canas mentions that Pent looks to be an adept in the magics of nature, Canas himself brings up Dark is knowledge (Well Darkness, but everything we learn about Dark magic is that it requires a keen mind), which leaves Light as faith. I think it's worth distinguishing between "it requires a keen mind" and "it's the magic of knowledge." The masters of anima magic are great scholars, same as the masters of dark magic. From what Canas says, it sounds like anima magic's theory might be better organized and easier to understand, but that's not the same as mastering anima not requiring significant knowledge. One related piece of evidence (again, from Canas and Pent's supports of course) is that Pent finds Canas having gone from a scholar to a shaman to be an unusual path. Clearly, dark magic isn't something scholars are likely to go into. To me it looks like light magic is the magic of the gods, anima magic is the magic of nature (though curiously, I believe mages are described with the R button as "Masters of justice"), and dark magic is the magic of dangerous and short-sighted deals with eldritch powers beyond human comprehension. Oh, and a question guys: I've written up the whole Dragon's Gate section. However, it's too many characters for me to post (and too many for me to just trim it down a bit without losing any potentially important things). Is there any kind of good way around the character limit? If not, should I just post it in 2 chunks?
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Mar 2, 2015 06:35
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The way around the character limit is to make two posts. Probably split around the start of the actual battle.
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Mar 2, 2015 07:16
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 Here it is: the best chapter in the game! All the action up till now has been building up to this level, when Elbert will finally be rescued and Nergal and his henchmen defeated. It’s really looking a fair amount like the ending of Lyn’s story. Both Lyn and Eliwood set out from home to find a relative they discovered was in mortal peril, both unraveled an intrigue in Lycia along the way, and at the end of their long and difficult journeys, each faced off against the Marquess responsible inn the most ferocious battle of their stories. It’s been a long, hard trip full of twists and turns, but Eliwood has made it at last and we, the players, know Elbert is indeed still alive. In fact, some of the conversations between Nergal and Elbert parallel the scene where Lundgren taunts Hausen rather neatly. It’s on this chapter that the writing staff really showed us what they’re capable of. Besides a great general script, they finally managed to do an action sequence using sprites on the map that doesn’t look silly, the art team provided some of the game’s most fantastic paintings of important scenes, and their integration of the evocative soundtrack into the script is really masterfully done. This game’s power really comes from the ensemble of the script, paintings and art, music, and the actual experience of having played through all previous chapters rather than any of the elements individually. Much like Whereabouts Unknown and Battle Before Dawn, this is my favorite style of map: a large and complicated dungeon full of difficult to reach chests and tricky to steal items and loads of optional things to do. Dragon’s Gate is probably the best of the three. It’s harder than Whereabouts Unknown on non-HHM, has more than one good approach to it on HHM unlike Whereabouts Unknown, and doesn’t rely on Fog or other such gimmicks for any of its difficulty as Battle Before Dawn does. Interestingly, the locations and AI of Legault and the other thieves are quite different on the various difficulty modes and completely change the best approach to this chapter. It’s almost like a completely different level every time. Well I’m finished gushing about it for now, so without further ado: Chapter Summary: Hector, Eliwood, and the others have at last reached the Dragon’s Gate, where Eliwood’s father is held captive. While Nergal makes preparations to begin his sinister ritual, they prepare to battle the remaining black fang in their path and deal with Darin, Marquess of Laus, once and for all.  The pre-chapter text along with the ominous Dragon’s Gate 1 theme really set the scene well for this climactic confrontation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw9_Tdpoz5U  What a long road it’s been.  Perhaps she can hear the music.  They’ve been trying to figure out what’s wrong with Ninian throughout this whole trip through the Dread Isle, and she’s been increasingly nervous but they’ve had no idea why. Now, at the Dragon’s Gate, she has a breakdown and they prepare to take her back to safety.  It’s hard to top black speech bubbles from nowhere for menacing. There’s no telling who that could be at this point. Maybe even Nergal himself.  Oh, it’s just Ephidel teleporting in. Do note that Ephidel can teleport by the way. In fact he’s quite good at it and will be doing it a lot.  Up till now they’ve only heard rumors of him as the mastermind behind Darin. And from their perspective, he probably looked fairly competent since they must have assumed there was a method to his madness.  Hector is never one for diplomatic pleasantries. You may recall he’s so angry because the Black Fang killed Leila and apparently he knew her well, though we never find out just how other than her being one of his brother’s spies.  Ephidel is late to figure things out as usual. Up till now he’d had no idea who she was working for since he killed her instead of finding out.  Hector charges and Ephidel teleports away. You’ll notice that this establishes clearly that Ephidel can teleport to escape danger at an instant’s notice.  And now he’s next to Ninian, apparently relying on speed and surprise to prevent the 12 people nearby from killing him.  And Ninian has been abducted. Again.  So Darin is sent to lead the forces fighting Eliwood. Either Ephidel has finally realized that Darin without his lands and armies is not useful for anything but being a mediocre fighter and that therefore all the trouble he went to to bring Darin here alone was a complete waste, or he’s stupidly throwing away someone he still thinks is useful.  And then he makes another one of his snide asides about how much better than Darin he is. Oh well, I’ve got to give him some credit here, he DID just swipe Ninian successfully. That was the only non-dumb thing he’s done in the whole story. I’ll assume that there’s some limit to his range so that he couldn’t just do it earlier.  And he delivers Ninian to Nergal as Elbert looks on helplessly. The Dragon’s Gate is pretty epic looking.  Not quite helpless! Elbert has undone or broken his bonds and attacks Nergal barehanded.  But Jaffar gets him from behind.  And it’s the second of the paladin miniboss trio, Cameron! He rides up for the express purpose of taunting Hector and company.  And then he pulls Boies’s trick of backwards laughing, but this time on a horse. And even faster. He really zooms off screen; it’s pretty great. The War Room, part 22 So this chapter I finally hit 4 tactician stars, which means it’s about time to talk about what those do:  Those of you with long memories will recall I mentioned that the tactician has an affinity way back in the prologue and that you can change this by changing the tactician’s birth month. Although I haven’t shown it before, the tactician also has the above stats screen available starting on chapter 14 from the battle preparations menu. The only thing of note is the set of stars at the bottom. That started off as 1 star and will grow to 9 or 10 by the end of the game on this run. Essentially, you earn more stars by maintaining a very good ranking throughout the game. What do these do? Well every character who shares the tactician’s affinity (in this case that’s Serra, Erk, Wallace, Bartre, Hector, Heath, and Geitz) gains a bonus to their hit, dodge, and enemy crit reduction chances equal to the number of stars. Small, but comparable to support bonuses. I picked Thunder for my tactician because Serra, Erk, Bartre, Hector, and Heath were all going to see use in this run (and all of those but Serra were likely to see heavy use) and several of them are the kind of people who benefit significantly from improved dodge chance or accuracy. Contrary to popular belief at one point, tactician affinity does NOT grant a growth bonus to characters with the same affinity. Its only effect is this small increase in hit, dodge, and enemy crit reduction. Battle Preparations & the Map  Ah, a fairly complicated map indeed. I’ve never stopped loving it in 12 years of playing this game. The first thing to note if you’ve played the Dragon’s Gate before is that in this mode Legault spawns in the bottom right, not the top left, and he starts off immediately. Furthermore, he doesn’t have a lockpick anymore- just chest keys- so he won’t slow down to open any doors and thereby give you a chance to talk to him easily. The staircases all around the map hint that there’s going to be a lot of reinforcements, and there are, but generally it’s the standing forces that are the biggest problem. You’ll notice immediately that there are a huge number of cavalry of mixed types- even a troubadour- in the main area. These will put together a pretty effective combined arms assault, but the bigger problem is that they’ll try to catch you before you can get to the door to the northwest treasure room. Cavaliers are very tough to kill because of their mix of good HP, solid defense, and enough speed that not just everyone can double them, so they can wall you out pretty well if you’re not careful. Outside the main area, there are quite a few knights- which are extremely vulnerable to some units and totally invincible against others- and a problematic cluster of shamans around Darin. Those shamans make the end of an era. Up till now, Hector was the go-to man for killing bosses. He had all the strength, he had the defense, and he had the awesome power of the Wolf Beil- which was super-effective a good 60% of the time. Hector can beat Darin pretty well, but those shamans are not something he can deal with. And Darin is the last of his kind really. From now on, more and more bosses are going to be of types Hector isn’t that good against. What’s more, Hector is about to hit his level cap and stagnate for most of the rest of the game. It’s time to pass the torch of the boss assassin to someone else. Not coincidentally, notice what tome of dark magic you get from a northwest chest this level. Speaking of chests, there’s a ton of treasure but it’s scattered. Obviously, there’s no way whatsoever to stop Legault from getting those 2 chests near him. So you have to either recruit him or steal the ring from him and then kill him for the barrier. Obviously recruiting is better. Other thieves after Legault will follow the same path up and then left that he does, but will each have a single chest key for looting the northwest chests. Meanwhile, no one ever goes for the southwest chest and there have been 0 chest keys available to the player so far (except 1 on Teodor’s level if Matthew has 20 speed). So if you want the bottom chest, Matthew must get that. The other chests, you can probably allow the enemy to open for you if you want. Just kill them for the loot afterwards. I’m going to try something trickier than that though as you’ll see. Anyway, after looking around the map for a while, you should notice that you COULD ignore the central, enclosed area. However, going in there will give you an opportunity to split up the enemy cavalry forces and distract them from blocking the main group. The main group needs to be pushing through the narrow field up toward Cameron with all possible speed. It is imperative that they prevent the mass of enemy cavaliers from getting between them and the locked door to the treasure room. Going through the treasure room is the surefire way to catch Legault, and is also essential to making sure you get all the treasure obviously.  Objective: Seize throne Secondary Objective: Get the Brave Bow from the bottom left chest. Secondary Objective: Get the Blue Gem from the top left chest Secondary Objective: Get the Luna from the top left chest. Secondary Objective: Get the Guiding Right from the bottom right chest (from Legault) Secondary Objective: Get the Barrier from the top right chest (from Legault). Secondary Objective: Recruit Legault with Hector or Lyn. Secondary Objective: Steal the Member Card from the first thief to spawn. Secondary Objective: steal the Chest Key from the first thief to spawn. Secondary Objective: steal the Chest Key from the second thief to spawn. Secondary Objective: Kill the bottom right archer for his Killer Bow. Reinforcements: In the very early turns, 2 fighters with handaxes spawn from the top left. On turn 2 a thief with a single chest key and a member card spawns from Legault’s spot and starts going for the upper left chests. On turn 3 another thief with only a chest key does the same. From about turns 3 to 8, mercenaries and shamans will alternate spawning from the central stairs. A total of 5 mages will spawn from the mid-left stairs starting on about turn 4. Starting at the same time, there will be 3 archers from the bottom left stairs as well as 3 archers and 3 fighters spawning out of the bottom middle area stairs. Late in the map (starting on turn 8 or so) 2 pegasus knights will spawn each turn in the bottom left area. And then starting at turn 15 there will be absolutely huge numbers of mages and knights spawning in the top left area for many, many turns. Really the reinforcement situation is complicated and hard to remember. What’s important is that the major spawns begin on turn 4, pegasus knights don’t appear till turn 8, and you should aim to win before anything much starts coming from the top left. Turn limit: 16 (Quite generous really, plenty of time to farm some reinforcements) Units Allowed: 12 (Fairly generous. 13 would be comfortable) Units Brought: 1. Hector. Required and still great. Killing cavaliers and knights and generals is something he still excels at, and I want to get him close to level 20 on this chapter. 2. Matthew. There’s no way to get the bottom left chest without him, or to get the member card or several other goodies. 3. Lyn. Required. She’s not good for much this level. Even if her Mani Katti is in good condition, she still doesn’t like fighting more than 1 knight or cavalier at a time. There’s still a bit of training available for her at least. 4. Eliwood. Required. He’s slightly better off than Lyn due to his superior defenses, but he’s still not going to accomplish much without his rapier. 5. Florina. Although there are a fair number of archers on this chapter, most of them are in positions where a pegasus knight can get first strike against them. Florina is also good against mages and there are quite a few of those. High movement is valuable on this map in general and I expect I’ll want a fair amount of rescuing power by the end. 6. Fiora. Like Florina, but worse. 7. Canas. Rapidly becoming my MVP, Canas can butcher knights and mages and other shamans and is highly effective against archers and cavaliers. There’s also a Luna tome on this level which he can be quite helpful vs Darin with. 8. Raven. Raven isn’t very good here due to the abundance of lance users and mages, but he can still hold his own in the central area especially. And he needs training. 9. Sain. Sain is much less necessary in this chapter than he has been before. Florina is coming into her own, as is Canas. I’ll mostly be using him for support and to go backup anyone who runs into trouble. You can count on things going wrong on at least one front on a map like this. 10. Lowen. Lowen is actually fairly effective here. His high defenses and weapon versatility make him good against archers, nomads, and his fellow cavaliers. 11. Priscilla remains my best healer and I’ll definitely want healing on this chapter. She’s also good for added rescue power. 12. Dorcas. Ugh. I hate using him. But he stands a good chance against the bottom right archers (except for the initial one with the killer bow) and he’s great for the herds of pegasus knights on the bottom left. Notable Units Rejected 1. Serra. If I had a 13th unit, she would definitely be it and would back up the central room people. But I was fairly confident they could push through with maybe one vulnerary used. Ultimately, everyone else looked indispensable in comparison. Even Dorcas has a job that can’t really be done without well. 2. Guy. Can’t kill anything, can’t support anyone. 3. Dart. Again, I would love to use Dart over Dorcas but training Dorcas will get me Jerme’s chapter. 4. Lucius. No Canas, but he’s good for maps like this. He’s just not quite good enough though and is too fragile given my death of healers. And I don’t want him gaining too much XP yet. 5. Erk. Same boat as Lucius. Remember how I mentioned that I always buy door keys before Whereabouts Unknown because they’re essential for beating that chapter fast outside of HHM? Well they’re just as useful- if not more so- here. I had 2 of them left, which is exactly the number I’ll actually need. I plan on opening 2 doors with Matthew and 2 with keys. Just in case of an emergencies, Priscilla also has the unlock staff, but that’s expensive. The plan is that Matthew opens the bottom right door and Florina kills the archer. Next turn Matthew will take the chest and then Florina immediately hauls him out of there. I might do a full rescue chain with Priscilla or others, but I doubt that will be necessary. Mathew will follow behind the main group and open the top left treasure room as soon as there’s a chance. From there he can be used to either take the treasure or steal from the thieves or both. Lyn will be used against the local knights and then later against the bottom left reinforcements. Her main job is to help clear a path for Hector and Eliwood and the other main force to start charging immediately. They need to cover as much ground as possible and avoid getting boxed in or slowed. Canas will be with that troup, as will Priscilla and Sain. Meanwhile, Dorcas will open the central chamber for Lowen to rush the longbow archer. Raven and Fiora will follow and the 3 of them will control the central reinforcements and try to aggro some of the cavalry horde to make progress faster on the main front. Dorcas will either try to deal with the archer and fighter reinforcements in the bottom right, or just go and take care of the archers and pegasus knights in the bottom left if the numbers don’t look good in the first case. Depending on how fast I’m going, I may send Hector through the treasure room to intercept Legault at the end of his path, or I might have Eliwood- with a door key- or Priscilla open the door to Darin for him directly. If I’m quick enough, I can catch Legault right there, at which point things are in the bag. One critical problem is that all my gear is breaking down. I had very limited funds and I haven’t bought anything in a long time- since Chapter 16 I believe. People are down to their last few hits of javelins and handaxes and there’s even a shortage of iron weapons to go around. If I can just make it till next chapter though, I can use the stores and my silver card to buy everything I need. Anyway, Eliwood gets the longsword rather than Raven because in the central area Raven will have fewer cavaliers and nomads to handle. Lowen will take the Horseslayer to the central area since only he has anything near the Con for it. Florina gets the heavy spear but probably won’t use it. Most other gear is standard, but about 10 uses from breaking.  Legault immediately pops up as the map begins and talks to himself about his treasonous plans. It’s a good thing no one overheard that. The Characters:  “No sense staying on a sinking ship. No sense at all.” –Legault, Chapter 20 One of the few Black Fang who sees the writing on the wall, Legault –called the Hurricane- is getting the hell out of Dodge before either Eliwood’s company or Nergal’s faction end up killing him. He’s been in the organization since the beginning and had the unpleasant job of killing Fangs who turned traitor- or later those who screwed up a mission or were badly injured and unable to continue in the group. How Ephidel lasted 5 minutes away from Nergal in a group that punishes the slightest mistakes so harshly is beyond me. As you’d expect, Legault was not popular since everyone he was killing had friends in the organization. And he has a rather fearsome reputation- allegedly second in ability to only the Four Fangs, though his stats don’t bear that out. So in essence he was always something of an outsider within the group and it’s not surprising he’d be one of the first to desert. He’s one of many Fangs who wallows in false nostalgia for the good old days –back when, you know, his job was killing his comrades- and propagates the myth that the Black Fang was good before Nergal got his hands on it a year ago. Really, the man displays a surprising amount of fondness for the organization in general considering how guilty he feels about a fair number of things he did while a member. Ultimately, he stays something of an outsider and a loner and will ultimately distance himself from many of the people he can build supports with, though his supports are quite interesting. Legault is lower level than my Matthew, but better in every single stat. Much better in many. On levels where I only need one thief, that is going to be Legault from now on, but many chapters require 2 so they’ll both get a fair amount of time in the field. Neither is really a great combat character and for most of the game there’s no choice to be made between them: you either need every thief you can field or you don’t need any, so there’s no particular reason to get into saying one is better or worse than the other. Getting a second thief is very nice and it would be very nice even if the order was reversed.  “Ha ha ha ha ha!” –Cameron, Chapter 20 Like most of the other paladin minibosses, Cameron comes out of nowhere and his existence is never acknowledged by anyone else. He seems rather trollish and fond of gloating, but we learn little else about him.  Both his stats and his gear are well-balanced and he has no glaring weaknesses but no dangerous strengths either. He can’t fight at range, but he’s not so fragile that that matters much. It’s not killing him that’s the problem, it’s killing him quickly.  “I am… the ruler of the world…” –Darin, Chapter 20 Here he is at last, the mad Marquess of Laus! He’s abandoned his son, his realm, and his army- and indeed he got the latter killed almost down to the last man. Darin is really quite insane and has no grasp of the position he’s now in- alone at the Dragon’s Gate but for a group of assassins who hate noblemen who abuse their power and a dark wizard who was only using him for his prestige and social status back when he had any. His days were probably numbered at this point even if you didn’t kill him. His stats are mediocre. Better than the other knights and generals so far, but not by enough that it matters. He wields a Spear- one of the best weapons in the game- but that’s not enough to make up for his weak speed and only fairly good defenses. Killing him is almost an afterthought- as he himself is since he’s long since been pushed aside as the main antagonist by Nergal. Darin stopped being relevant before Whereabouts Unknown, when he abandoned the rest of his army and left Lycia forever.
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Mar 2, 2015 07:18
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Playing Through: Matthew’s position lets him open the door for Florina immediately. I picked her for this job because no one else available but Sain could actually kill that archer in one round.  Florina bags herself an easy kill. Now Matthew will be able to loot the room in peace before she carries him out next turn.  Doorcas does the only thing he can this turn, opening the way for more competent troops to fight the middle archer and prepare to dispatch the central reinforcements. After this, I’ll go check how he’ll fare against the killer bow archer to the right. Always remember to check the enemy weapons so you don’t get surprised by longbows like this one.  Lyn gets the main front off to a good start by scoring a lucky critical on the knight I need dead. Besides saving other people’s turns now, this also will save her a charge or two of it for the other nearby knights- she’s running out.  The trouble is that mage. I need him dead before my next turn, but no one can reach him. And he’ll definitely go for Lyn given the chance.  So Hector grabs her after equipping his handaxe…  And Canas takes and drops her. Now only people who can return fire are in the mage’s range. Priscilla waits in this exact spot because this is where Florina will end up next to as she returns with Matthew. I want Priscilla on hand to either take and drop him or continue the rescue chain depending on how the situation looks.  Turn 2 begins and the thief with the member card spawns as Legault makes his move.  There’s the card. For those who don’t know, this game has quite a number of “Secret Shops” hidden in various chapters. These sell many things you can’t buy, but nothing you can’t otherwise acquire. Generally it’s stuff that’s not worth the price for a ranking run, but the card itself has a decent amount of value so I want to steal it. Plus there’s honor and glory to consider.  First move of the second turn is the obvious one. This is the only chest that Matthew HAD to get. From now on if I want I can let the enemy thieves do the looting and then just kill them. But I’d rather do it myself and steal their lockpicks.  There are doors to open posthaste, Florina grabs him and rescues him out closer to the front.  In the center, Raven kills the archer Lowen wounded and gets a nice level up. Defense is great for him at this point.  I’ve realized that I should have given Lowen the 9 charge javelin and Fiora the 4 charge one since he needs to do more counterattacking. Fiora has nothing else to do this turn, so they might as well trade. Note how badly damaged most of my weapons are. These are my best javelins except maybe for Florina’s. And Lowen is using a steel sword because I’m completely out of iron ones to spare.  I don’t want to block the stairs and there are archers all around, so safe spots are limited.  This was a tricky decision. I want that door down and I really want to aggro as many nomads as possible so they don’t go for the center, but on the other hand I really need to conserve my javelins too and I also need to think about finishing the door off next turn. This is the best spot to stand in to aggro nomads and there was no safe way to, say, attack the wall with an iron lance and then have someone trade-switch that to a javelin before the enemy turn. Ultimately I decided that half-broken javelin or not, I needed to immediately start fighting those enemies by any means necessary, so the wall had to come down and Lowen needed a javelin equipped now.  A lucky crit from Eliwood saves me another use of his rapier. That’s nice.  Nomads are darned fast, so it’s a good thing this one has a steel bow. With it down, Hector will be free to move full speed ahead again. With his handaxe and Canas’s flux, the nearby nomads should be killed quickly. Cameron will also attack this turn though, so I need to be ready for that.  Before he rushes for the front lines, he needs some healing.  And another mediocre level for Priscilla. Doesn’t matter.  Sain has a handaxe with 5 uses. Dorcas has one with 14. That is the extent of my remaining handaxe supply.  Cameron is blocked from getting to Canas. He and his troops must attack Hector instead unless they’re archers. And only 2 of the nomads can reach Canas, so he’s fine.  Priscilla had work to do, so Sain is going to do the rescue-dropping of Matthew instead. I counted the squares and he’s going to be close enough to the door now that there’s no need for further chaining. I can just drop him here and then move further up.  Before doing that, I counted spaces and made sure I had exactly enough to reach here.  On the enemy turn, Legault swipes the ring as expected.  The other enemies advance and little else happens except that yet another thief spawns (along with a central mercenary).  Alright, this is the big wave! I need to cut through them and prevent the rest from getting between me and the nearby door. Lowen is doing a good job of attracting attention on his side, and he’ll do even better when I break that wall down.  Here’s the situation in the bottom area at the start of turn 3. The numbers aren’t good on Dorcas vs killer bow even with the forest. I’ve decided it’s worth seeing if the first volley goes in my favor. If so, I’ll keep fighting. Otherwise he’ll go run left instead. Florina doesn’t actually have a whole lot left to do this chapter. In retrospect, I should have had her help out the central people, but it’s not yet clear to me how much help they need.  Lyn finishes the nearby knight and gets a bad level. But that’s ok, because a level is a level for getting to Linus purposes.  I need to move Matthew to this area, but of course Sain is currently blocking me. So Matthew will need to go last. I’m not really sure what to do with Sain. I need to make sure Cameron dies, but I really want to make sure someone else gets the XP instead.  It’s always better to actually check than to just count spaces- maybe you forgot nomad movement costs. Here it’s safe to attack the mercenary from the left and bottom, as I knew.  So Fiora and Raven take that guy out while Lowen breaks down the door and prepares for a really rough fight. Especially with no healer.  How low on weapons am I? Well after giving iron swords to each exclusive sword user, there were no iron swords left. After giving iron lances to each exclusive lance user, there were no iron lances left. Sain is making do with a pair of 5 use each iron axes, a 5 user handaxe, and the Hammer- in case Lyn had trouble with the knights or Hector kept missing Darin. This was just axeing for trouble, but there wasn’t much else I can do. Unlike Eliwood’s story, Hector’s story doesn’t give you many steel weapons or anything you can fall back on. (The lack of steel weapons also causes some rare but significant slowdowns on occasions when people like Oswin can ALMOST kill an enemy in one hit but not quite).  I decided the chance of Sain killing Cameron anyway was too high, so instead I have Canas start things off. He gets a pretty nice level. Defense is also good on a mage. That he doesn’t totally suck at Defense is one of Canas’s great strengths really.  Perfect. This lets me finish him with Eliwood as I’d hoped. If this failed, I’d have had to use Sain afterall.  That’s a 1-use iron sword. I can’t think of a better finish for it.  Awesome! Thank you, 1-use iron sword, your sacrifice will not be forgotten!  It was critical that Cameron not be given a chance to use this and thereby rob me of about 1000 gold. Elixirs cost a fortune and you should never, ever use one. Vulneraries are already iffy at about 1/10 the price.  I need those nomads down, so I need everyone on the front lines to have a Handaxe. Once again, trading is key to all advanced tactics.  And Priscilla heals Canas for 1 hitpoint. I’ve refrained from using Priscilla and Serra on the last few chapters only warily. Your XP ranking is one of the toughest to max out and can completely blindside you, so it’s important to take every chance you get to rake in XP.  With Sain out of the way, Matthew moves in. He’s now in reach of the door next turn as long as the others keep the enemy out of the way.  If it wasn’t for Lowen’s group, there’s no doubt that huge herd of enemies would be swarming in and I wouldn’t be able to get through them for several more turns.  Well it was fun while it lasted, right Lyn? Sadly, even my mildly strength-blessed, very high level Lyn is too weak to even scratch knights with her iron sword. Dorcas will have to handle this one.  Speaking of Dorcas, he and the archer miss each other. I won’t push my luck any further. Sain or Lowen will need to find a way to kill him, Dorcas needs to take out that knight and then the bottom left reinforcements.  The enemy is actually pretty smart on the rare occasions when they have healers. That nomad got out of danger and ran back to the troudadour and now he’ll be all ready to go again next turn. Not much I can do about that since I can’t kill her yet.  Agh, this is the big reinforcement turn. Shamans, mages, archers, more archers, fighters, all sorts of enemies everywhere. And that’s going to keep up for a while, so I need to make sure the tide doesn’t turn against me anywhere.  Yeah, there’s more of them.  Dorcas gets out of there before he gets critted. Luckily Lyn can outrun knights. So next turn Dorcas will get the Knight and Lyn will take the archer.  Lowen was badly injured by so many arrows, but Raven is still in good health, so they switch places for this turn and Lowen takes a vulnerary.  And this is as far as the enemy thieves have gotten by turn 4. That’s the member card thief in the lead now actually and Legault in the middle.  So yeah, probably Florina should have gone to help the middle people instead, but she does help out here by clearing that cavalier without blocking the door.  The rapier is running low. The longsword is much too heavy most of the time, but this enemy has a steel lance so he’s slowed even more so it’s alright.  And the door is opened! Treasure, here we come!  So in order to make quick progress, I need to take out 2-3 enemies in there before my next turn. The spot to reach is that closest one the knight can hit since the fighter has a handaxe, so he can get in on it too. Canas is perfect for this. The trouble is he can’t reach it.  On his own that is. Priscilla grabs him and Sain unloads him.  And because he’s a paladin he still has enough move to get back out of there. Erk or Lucius couldn’t stand up to a knight + a fighter + a mage at once, but Canas can even if he doesn’t dodge.  So even more enemies spawn on their next turn. They’re really getting serious numbers in the bottom right where I can’t fight them.  Dorcas takes the knight and Lyn injures the archer. Her damage is pretty bad without the Mani Katti.  So Canas did quite well, but not as well as I hoped. He’ll need some healing and some help to finish this.  Here’s the overall formation and threat I’m facing this turn. The cavalry forces have been destroyed, but the middle people are all badly injured and need help. Meanwhile I need to split my main force in 2 directions: some through the treasure room and some directly at the throne.  This will help the middle people considerably. Lowen can finish a guy who only has 5 HP, but he can’t do much against one with 25.  Raven and Fiora are almost but not quite good enough to handle these reinforcements. If Raven had 1 more Str he could 1-round them himself. But he can’t, so he keeps taking damage and she can’t dodge the shamans, so they both are getting injured steadily.  Fiora levels. Still no speed. Mine is getting problematically slow. At least she’s getting Str though.  Things are a bit dangerous now, but if Lowen can just kill this guy, the middle area will be safe. Luckily he managed it.  Priscilla gets Canas ready to keep fighting.  Matthew finished off the mage and opened the path for Canas. He could kill this knight or either of the 2 fighters. The knight is by far the best choice since only it is a threat to Matthew.  Eliwood is now in door range for next turn, plus he’s ready to fight with his longsword if need be.  But the cavalier went for Lowen instead as expected, He hits level 10 and has a 10 in each of his 3 most important stats. That’s pretty much average for him- just a little ahead overall.  Well that hit was unexpected. It would be hilarious if the other one went for him and also hit and killed Matthew after I said only the knight was a threat, but the other one had already gone for Priscilla as expected.  Fiora’s biggest edge is usually resistance, but she’s not so great there to start. Good enough to beat shamans, but not good enough not to be badly injured as she fights them repeatedly. And you can see that the bottom right horde has broken loose and is heading this way. I can’t fight from this square anyway.  Whoo! Another great level for Dorcas! For him to actually gain speed is almost unbelievable.  Better get Matthew out of handaxe range. At this point I’m still not sure I intend to loot the treasure myself, so I’m preparing to move into steal range instead.  Priscilla keeps him ready to take another handaxe to the face.  Well it’s all or nothing now. By moving Hector this way instead of through the treasure room, I was choosing the riskier route to Legault. I need to send him and Sain both in now and that’s a lot of shamans in there. Plus this means I can’t deal with that troubadour or prepare to fight the bottom right people yet. Oh well, I’m confident this is the best option.  But Hector definitely needs to be at full HP for this. Keeping him 1 space back and safe would not be an option because then Legault (the middle thief now, remember) would get away.  And Fiora finish the shaman from the new safe side after Lowen kills the last nomad.  Raven will have to dodge a handaxe, but that’s worth it to make sure Lowen fights that cavalier with his iron lance instead of a javelin.  Darin attacks Sain, unfortunately wearing out his handaxe.  Hector’s breaks as he fights the shamans. Chapter 21 can’t get here soon enough.  Lyn finishes the nearby archer. The tides of reinforcements have mostly stopped now. It’s just the calm before the pegasus knights.  I don’t know exactly when those spawn, so I want Dorcas ready to either fight them or back off to the forest.  Hector survived, now he can recruit Legault!  Legault joins for reasons that make a lot more sense if it’s Eliwood or Lyn talking to him.  And he immediately steals the member card from the nearby thief. Having Legault and thus 2 chances to steal per turn makes the rest of this much, much easier.  Canas I’m not sure what to do with. I don’t want to block the treasure room, but I can’t move just below the enemy thief because the knight + soldier + myrmidon can juuuust kill him if they all hit.  And at this point I’ve definitely decided to get the treasure myself and steal the enemy chest keys. As long as one chest remains, the nearby one will keep coming.  One more reinforcement to kill. And then I have to figure out what to do about the giant wave of fighters and archers coming.  First, this cavalier has to die and I need the iron lance for that.  Again, trading saves his bacon as Fiora switches him to the steel sword for weapon triangle advantage vs the fighters.  And then she gets out of the way.  Yeah, those 3 need help more than Hector and Eliwood do. Sain hurries to the rescue.  Darin smacks Eliwood badly, but he’s pretty much done for this level anyway.  Ah. This I stupidly didn’t see coming. I had to leave her alive and she took the opportunity to heal Darin back to full. That’s a bit of an issue.  Beginning of turn 8, the enemy pegasus knights appear. I checked the numbers, and Dorcas can handle them easily if he has a forest. One has a slim lance and one a steel, so the steel will be doubled and killed if it attacks him, but I’m going to need him to finish the slim lance one every turn.  Matthew swipes chest key number one. Yes! This is the first one I’ve got all game.  Hector finally kills that darned troubadour.  Canas prepares for battle and Legault steals the other chest key. Hooray, I got everything that can be stolen! And all the treasure too once Matthew opens that last chestl  Ooh, a lucky crit. That’ll save me a turn.  Meanwhile I’m taking a risk on the middle front, but it had to be done. With true hit, the odds were 95% that Raven would survive and I’m willing to take a bet like that to speed things along significantly.  I’ve really been dithering with Florina, unsure what to have her do. As a result she accomplished little but spending her javelin on those mages for a mediocre level.  If Lowen gets hit, Sain can just rescue him, so it’s ok.  As expected, Dorcas can easily finish the remaining pegasus knight with its slim lance on turn 9 and he’s fine due to his forest.  Matthew loots the Luna as Legault and Eliwood kill the remaining areas. I want to get this to Canas ASAP, so I’ll use Priscilla to trade it away from Matthew.  And Canas goes to the edge of Priscilla’s range to wait for her healing and trade.  As fighting continues, Lowen gets another good level. I’m thinking about actually starting to use him again if he can keep this up.  Those 3 knights in the top right are totally harmless, but I want their XP. The vulnerary is more for being ready to fight Darin next turn.  Someone needs to beat the bottom right archers. Only Sain can do it, but he needs a javelin. Yoink.  Hector lucks out against the axereaver knight.  Meh, I’ll take it.  Now THAT’S the Dorcas I know.  Sain proceeds to instant kill every archer except the one with the killer bow, just as planned.  Next turn, Canas gets a Luna and a heal.  This one use javelin is the perfect way to make sure Sain injures an enemy without killing it- leaving the XP for someone else.  Like Raven. Meanwhile Fiora has finished the killer bow archer. That wraps it up for the whole bottom right! The entire map has been cleared except Darin and some pegasus knights.  Yay!  I could Wolf Beil him, but there’s no need with Canas ready to roll. All that matters is that he dies next turn without Hector having to spend his turn attacking him. Killing him this turn with the Wolf Beil would mean 1 less round of pegasus XP for Dorcas.  Hector and Darin share some unique boss dialogue.  Canas gets in this position but doesn’t actually attack. That would be much too risky.  And now it’s the next, and final turn, number 11. Things were basically done on 10. I just need to kill Darin with Canas and farm a pegasus with Dorcas.  This steel lance one will do nicely.  Yeah, we’re back to classic Dorcas.  And the first Luna critical of the game, sufficiently powerful that it could have killed Darin from full. You’ll be seeing a lot of these.  Sweet! Rock on, Canas!  More XP healing.  And we’ve won! At long last! Eliwood charges right into the back of the Dragon’s gate, shouting and sure that he’s won the battle.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i25ruADN6hE Apparently he can’t hear the music either. This is not the music that plays when your victory was a tidy one that solves your problems.  There he is! After 14 grueling battles we’ve finally found him! And strangely he still seems to think we’re in danger.  Ninian seems to be in a trance, but that’s nothing another use of the Rescue command won’t solve!  Awww. We don’t really know just how well Eliwood knows Uther or Hector knows Elbert, but it looks like there’s friendship between the entire families really. That’s why Hector was so disgusted with Oswin when Oswin believed the rumors Elbert was a traitor.  Man, they just all keep yelling. They aren’t even trying to be stealthy and they didn’t even bring their other troops with them.  Figures. Wonder who’s poofing in this time?  Uh oh. Maybe if they hadn’t assumed they’d already won and just charged in yelling their heads off and maybe if they’d brought the rest of the army, they wouldn’t be in this predicament.  Yet another warning that we’re up against powers we can’t overcome.  And once again it’s ignored. This is pretty common in FE and videogames in general of course. And the Eliwood equivalent is nearly always right.  And now Ephidel joins in. It’s true, really. Jaffar could wipe the floor with these guys. Sain + Canas + Priscilla could beat him pretty easily at this point though. So Ephidel has them right where he wants them. Jaffar stands between them and their way out. Now all he has to do is-  Ephidel blunders once again. Yeah. Send the only guy blocking their escape or reinforcements away. This is going to cost you big time, dummy.  And then someone- maybe Ephidel, maybe the controlled Ninian, it’s hard to be sure, starts training Elbert’s quintessence. A creepy, red, blood-like fog which also shows up on the game-over screen (that’s a nice touch) fills the air.  If Ninian isn’t doing it, at the very least the quintessence stolen is being transferred to her.  And Nergal appears, as the whole Dragon’s Gate is now awash in Elbert’s foggy quintessence.  A great painting. Good job on Elbert’s pose in particular.  Nergal tells Ninian to open the gate and she does, as the ground shakes and rumbles.   Aaaaand that’s a dragon. Looking pretty ferocious. And half made of fire. Well this went bad quickly. Looks like it’s time to have the final battle against Nergal and the dragon and save Elbert! Any second now!   Have you been wondering where Nils was this whole time? The others have. And here he is, saving the day. If it weren’t for him, Eliwood’s blundering and overconfidence would have gotten EVERYONE killed right there.  Ninian stops holding the gate open and the magic goes wild.  “Crumbling?” That’s kind of an odd word, but alright. So he tells everyone to flee.  Everyone flees. Nergal flees by teleporting. You know, like Ephidel can do.  Ephidel doesn’t flee. He’s too stupid to listen to anyone and doesn’t get out in time.  And then Elbert hits Nergal by surprise. So hard that Nergal thinks he’s going to die. Did he even have a weapon? The 8 legends have nothing on Elbert. Chained up, tortured for months, taken down by Jaffar only by surprise, and now drained of most of his quintessence, he’s still a great enough warrior to nearly kill Nergal in a single blow.  Nergal vanishes. Not his usual teleport out, he just fades away like he’s too injured to even teleport properly.  We won!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnuTTO8NmBY  No, surely he can’t be dying now. The whole plot was about rescuing him!    Another great painting. Along with the great music, this really gives this scene its power and pathos.  And that’s another thing. The player is thinking the same thing. The player also went through a lot and shared some of Eliwood’s difficulties: the player has been trying to rescue Elbert this whole time too and now it’s all for nothing. And there it ends. Many of us have played this game before and others of us already knew the plot before our first play, so we’re somewhat jaded. But if you don’t know it’s coming, this scene hits HARD. That’s part of what makes this chapter one of my favorite parts of any videogame ever. Besides just being a fun and well-designed chapter, it’s both a major, unexpected twist in the plot and a really moving moment. And it’s a really good use of the medium. Just as films can do things books can’t, videogames have their own unique ways of making their stories and themes compelling. For a film to try to be like a book would be a waste of its unique strengths, same as a book should not try for the sorts of visual grandeur that a film can rely upon. Most videogames, in my opinion, are still trying too much to be like films in how they tell their stories. And as long as that remains the case, they won’t be using their true potential as an art form. This game is a fairly rare exception. Besides putting its art and music to good effect, it also uses the videogame’s most unique feature compared to other art forms (that the player’s actions shape events and thus the characters’ journey is also the players’s) deftly to encourage the player to get invested in the characters and to share their hopes. If you’ve been working for 14 chapters to rescue Elbert, it matters to you that he’s died in a way that it wouldn’t if you’d just been watching a movie about Eliwood for an hour or so. And it’s also a sucker punch of a surprise after saving Marquess Hausen in Lyn’s story and the recovery he made. Lyn’s story and its happy ending really does a fantastic job setting up for this story to have such a devastating twist. Wow. He’s really dead, isn’t he? What happens now? The story up till now was fairly predictable- as most FE stories are. But now it could go ANYWHERE. Just as a first time player would be sure the end was in sight, everything suddenly goes off the rails. Total Restarts: 11 (No more on this level) Turn Surplus: 5 (That’s a good start toward preparing for Crazed Beast. 11 is probably the best turn to end this map on HHM) Things I Regret Missing: The lockpick on chapter 11, that darned archer on chapter 11, this one brigand who attacked Marcus on chapter 12, 2 more brigands who ignored everyone else to attack Marcus on chapter 13x, and 2 archers who ignored Hector and Dorcas (DORCAS!) to attack Marcus on chapter 14, like 10 more enemies I could have killed if Hector could have survived one more turn on chapter18, and Uhai who decided to take a 100% chance of death to Sain over a free hit on Hector
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Mar 2, 2015 07:19
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Wait I thought your plan for the Lord's weapons was to keep them at 1 use and then Hammerne them later.
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Mar 2, 2015 07:35
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mani katti is free, the guy's weapons are the ones that cost money
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Mar 2, 2015 07:36
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RIP Elbert, the most badass man in Elibe. Also we really need an "Ephidel is loving stupid" count, because oh my god if he hadn't been barbequed here, I can only imagine how many more fuckups he would have caused.
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Mar 2, 2015 07:53
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I've always really liked the sprite work with the sad/mad portraits. It's so subtle, but you can really tell Hector is about to cleave a motherfucker's skull in.
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Mar 2, 2015 10:59
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About Ephidel, there was a fanhack that tried to deal with what would happen if he did survive, horribly maimed, burnt and even more insane and unstable. It was covered in the FE megathread and iirc it was a pretty good hack.
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Mar 2, 2015 14:14
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Rigged Death Trap posted:About Ephidel, there was a fanhack that tried to deal with what would happen if he did survive, horribly maimed, burnt and even more insane and unstable. It was covered in the FE megathread and iirc it was a pretty good hack. Elibien Nights, He's the boss of "Pent's Tale"
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Mar 2, 2015 14:18
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Great thread! Glad to have caught up with it before the end. Melth, your obvious passion for this game makes reading this thread as good as it is, even if not everyone agrees with you. My introduction to the Fire Emblem series was actually FE4, and so I compare all other Fire Emblems to that. It bucks the later trends in a few ways, of course, and I'd like to discuss them in contrast to a few of the chats we've had in this thread. 1) FE4's recruitable enemy myrmidon (sword fighter, really), Ira, actually *is* as good as she is credited as being. This is largely because she has Astra, which in FE4 was just a straight five attacks in a row. Unusually, I'd actually go so far as to say she's better than the recruitable mercenary equivalent. Her children are even more terrifying, but Generation 2 of FE4 is probably the biggest set of badasses ever seen in the FE series. 2) I found Briggid the archer to be fairly effective in FE4, but that might have been because she (and her son, Faval) come with the holy bow Ichaival. Of course, FE4 has no shortage of flying enemies - particularly in chapters 4 and 8. Of course, "fairly effective" in FE4 isn't necessarily enough to cut it. Particularly in Gen 2. 3) I doubt any FE game before or since has had quite as shocking of a midpoint false end. Awakening's was particularly egregious for this - particularly as the continuation of the game past it was literally shown in the first scene of the game.
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Mar 2, 2015 18:56
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David Corbett posted:Great thread! Glad to have caught up with it before the end. Melth, your obvious passion for this game makes reading this thread as good as it is, even if not everyone agrees with you. You may recall I mentioned near the start that FE4 is the only FE I've yet to complete. The reason for that is that I've heard it's great, so I want to experience it properly, but I can't find a translation of the pre-title text. It looks like it's talking about the setting and some kind of evil dragon and a bunch of holy weapons (as per usual for FE), but I'd like to know the details before starting to play. Do you happen to know where I can find a translation of that?
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Mar 2, 2015 19:44
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i think this is it http://acenoctali.free.fr/f-fe4/judgral_chronology.htm
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Mar 2, 2015 19:47
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One thing about FE4 unit balance is that it doesn't really matter near as much since you deploy every unit you have every map.
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Mar 2, 2015 19:49
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Cake Attack posted:i think this is it Awesome, thanks. I'd seen that before but I had no idea it was actually the intro text. I'd always assumed it was a fan-made timeline or something and I hadn't read it for fear of it revealing events later in the story.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:06
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Melth posted:You may recall I mentioned near the start that FE4 is the only FE I've yet to complete. The reason for that is that I've heard it's great, so I want to experience it properly, but I can't find a translation of the pre-title text. It looks like it's talking about the setting and some kind of evil dragon and a bunch of holy weapons (as per usual for FE), but I'd like to know the details before starting to play. Do you happen to know where I can find a translation of that? I do recall! That's actually why I brought it up - sort of to bring the exceptions, which you wouldn't know about, to your attention. There are a few critical mechanical differences that would make this sort of run somewhat more difficult to accomplish, most particularly that double attacking is actually a personal or class skill, that weapons gain experience and can be repaired but can't be traded, that everyone has their own cash reserves, and that mounted units always get to use their remaining movement after attacking. However, in my view Seisen no Keifu's winning techniques are more about strategy (raising a great team) than tactics. Of course, while FE4 does give you a few archers that would be absolute killing machines in other FE games, the foot archer's inherent weaknesses are even more profound in that game because maps are gigantic and because enemies come out in nasty hordes that practically demand counter attacking to clear. David Corbett fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 20:19
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David Corbett posted:There are a few critical mechanical differences that would make this sort of run somewhat more difficult to accomplish, most particularly that double attacking is actually a personal or class skill, that weapons gain experience and can be repaired but can't be traded, that everyone has their own cash reserves, and that mounted units always get to use their remaining movement after attacking. However, in my view Seisen no Keifu's winning techniques are more about strategy (raising a great team) than tactics. Yeah, I was confused by a bunch of the differences when I first tried playing FE4 a couple of years back (I got through the prologue and the first chapter before deciding I really wanted to know what the opening said too much to continue I believe). Imo the GBA FEs had a much more user-friendly interface than the earlier titles and told you what you needed to know about the game mechanics a bit better. Of course, that's only a problem for first time players of any particular game. Admittedly I haven't done enough of FE4 to really talk intelligently about it, but I'm surprised to hear you say that it has a higher emphasis on strategy than tactics. In my very limited experience with it and from what little I know about the later chapters- like that you can bring all your characters- it sounded to me like the only major strategic element would be choosing who marries who in order to prepare for generation 2. But a huge map fighting with huge enemy armies calls for good tactics, much like the giant maps such as Cog of Destiny or The Sword of Seals did.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:58
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It's less strategy and more logistics, if you ask me. Everyone having their own money supply, and weapons being untradable, means you can genuinely get yourself into an unwinnable scenario by misallocating your resources. And then not realize you've done this until several chapters later, when you actually hit bottom and mathematically can't win.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:11
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FE4 is a cool game with lots of noteworthy features but I feel like the core gameplay of most of the later FE games is objectively better. The 2nd generation thing is a fun idea but in real terms it's a huge "gently caress you for not metagaming" kick in the dick for first time players which is fairly inexcusable.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:36
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