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Sorites posted:It's less strategy and more logistics, if you ask me. Everyone having their own money supply, and weapons being untradable, means you can genuinely get yourself into an unwinnable scenario by misallocating your resources. And then not realize you've done this until several chapters later, when you actually hit bottom and mathematically can't win. I'm inclined to say logistics and resource management is definitely a strategy element. That particular one sounds like it might not have been very well implemented. but it sounds like strategy nonetheless. One of the things I liked about the GBA titles, especially 6 and 7, was that you could only shop on certain levels and the store selection was limited. If you didn't spend your funds well or you didn't get enough gear to get by, you could be in serious trouble. So you had to try to plan ahead and save both money and weaponry for a rainy day. Conceivably if you REALLY screwed up things could become unwinnable, but that would require like a dozen catastrophic blunders. But in FE8 you could buy at least iron weapons (at inflated price) even in the middle of the Lagdou ruins. I think that was a good idea overall because no one wants to get to floor 9 and then have to give up because even though they have 10,000,000 gold they don't have any weapons. But I didn't much like that you could go back to any store in the world and buy whatever you wanted between chapters. And then from 9 onward it's generally been waaaaaay too easy to just purchase what you want whenever you want it. Not to mention in many of those titles you no longer need promotion items- let alone class-specific ones- which removes that element of resource management and strategic choice between characters.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:48
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RabidWeasel posted:FE4 is a cool game with lots of noteworthy features but I feel like the core gameplay of most of the later FE games is objectively better. I think the most interesting aspect of FE4 are the children that appear if you don't make offspring, which are their own characters and not just nameless filler. It's a game I wish was re-made like the DS games, because that aspect always sounded fascinating.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:59
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the substitutes really aren't interesting, they have the same personalities and nearly identical backstories to the characters they replace. some have better character designs and that's about it
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Mar 2, 2015 22:05
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Melth posted:And it’s a really good use of the medium. Just as films can do things books can’t, videogames have their own unique ways of making their stories and themes compelling. For a film to try to be like a book would be a waste of its unique strengths, same as a book should not try for the sorts of visual grandeur that a film can rely upon. Most videogames, in my opinion, are still trying too much to be like films in how they tell their stories. And as long as that remains the case, they won’t be using their true potential as an art form. Yeah, the game really does do a good job of doing that, in general. Only thing though...Why doesn't the group try to find Nergal and finish him off, rather than run away from the island (yeah, I know Nils says Nergal can't be slain by normal weapons, but then how did Eliwood's Dad hurt him so badly)? And speaking of story and gameplay integration, how come we have such an easy time of storming Valor this time, and yet, have to fight a whole army of super-charged Morphs the second time? Like, where in the world were THOSE units? Plus, even after we fight Darin, we never actually get a sense of Nergal's full power and might... Which is why, instead of having things be all FMV...I kind of wish there was actually a fight here. Not a regular fight though, but a fight specifically designed to beat the snot out of you, like X vs. Vile in Mega Man X1. Like, perma-death would be turned off for that one chapter, you'd bring in all the guys you brought in for the chapter, and the format of the fight would go like so... Cutscene: It goes all the way up to where Ninian tries to summon dragons, but then instead of just sitting around, Eliwood and Co. charge forward to try and stop it, only for Jaffar to come in. Then it begins... Turn 1: You just fight Jaffar (maybe with him having an Elixer), and only the Lord trio start off close enough to him to fight him. Turn 2: Ephidel says some snide quote, then joins in, and heals Jaffar if he's suffered any damage. And of course, Ephidel would be statted to the max. So now you have TWO guys who are way stronger than the lord's that you have to deal with. Turn 3-4: Once these turns roll around, you get something like 2-3 Druids/Bishops/Sages teleporting in per turn, all strong enough to be endgame enemies, and either most of them, or all of them have Psychic staves (enough so that just killing Ephidel and Jaffar becomes nearly impossible). Turn 5: If you've still survived at this point (like, maybe if you've Arena Abused your characters and are chugging Elixers like mad), Nergal says something like "eh, you're doing a good job, but let's see how you handle this!", and then creates the Uhai and Darin morphs right before your eyes, with the exact same stats and weapons as they have in the final chapter. So they'd still look like this...     And at this point, any new player is going to be going  ...Turn 6: Now the amount of Morph spawns per turn goes from 2-3 to 4-5, and general things just go to heck in a handbasket. Oh yes, and more enemies have Bolting and Psychic Staves. Turn 7: Nergal growls about how long it's taking... as more Morphs spawn. Turn 8: Finally, if the three Lord's are STILL all alive somehow, Nergal just loses his patience, and joins in the fray himself, perhaps even accompanied by an entourage of Generals, Paladins, and Heroes, all strong enough to be endgame enemies. And of course, Nergal would still have like, 50 Attack like he does in the last chapter. And then once all that is done, and the player has gotten completely destroyed (however long it takes), then the cinematics continue, with Nils having tip-toed his way to Ninian while Nergal's busy gloating to the party about how their going to give him great quintessence (or whatever). Then, the event play the same, except this time, instead of only killing Ephidel, the Fire Dragon kills Ephidel...and the Darin morph...and the Uhai morph...and literaly every enemy on the map, right after you spent the entire fight just trying to kill ONE of them. Then after that, events play out as normal, with Eliwood's Dad mortally wounding Nergal, and Eliwood having his heart-wrenching scene (except with way more bruises and scorch marks on him in the CG), and the game goes on as normal...except, now, in addition to having a newfound appreciation of how badly we need Athos and the legendary weapons, we've answered two very important questions. 1) Why didn't Eliwood and Co. at least try to kill Nergal while he's weak before they left, even if they had to come all of Valor to do it? Because they just got done getting compltely destroyed by Nergal, Ephidel, Jaffar, and whatever morphs had joined in. 2) How come Eliwood and Co. never go back to the island to kill Nergal while he's weak, considering they were good enough to do it the first time? Because even though the Fire Dragon destroyed most of the Morphs you fought, Nergal can easily just create more of them. And since he's expecting you to return this time, he'll have built up an entire new army of supermen by the time you return. Anyone else feel the same way I do? Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 22:13
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Fionordequester posted:Anyone else feel the same way I do? Not really. If the outcome is that predetermined, you don't need to make me go through the motions. Especially in a game like Fire Emblem, where if people don't realize permadeath is off the majority of people will start resetting when they lose a big chunk of their forces. And if they did know permadeath is off, why do much at all? Just wait, let them kill you and get it over with; it won't change anything. You could show this to me, and it would change nothing from doing it myself. You'd have to put some kind of thing to do while getting the poo poo beaten out of you that you can succeed at to make it interesting. Probably something other than gathering loot, which would just seem weird (we were getting beaten up so hard that we took a break to grab some cash), but maybe the ability to kill a boss that might ordinarily show up later and have them replaced by someone else, who has something interesting to steal or different story information to share. Even then, I'm not sure it would be necessary, or ultimately add that much. edit: vvvvvv that, absolutely. Prism fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 22:19
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A supposed-to-lose fight at this point in the story would have to telegraph itself as unwinnable very, very clearly. Otherwise the player would mistake it for the endgame, and would misread the "YOU'RE DOOMED" warnings as building up tension. If anything, this calls for an FE9-style Escape chapter. That would convey the danger and impossible odds while not feeling like a cheat (or confusing first-time players). Sorites fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 22:21
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the only way to do a you're supposed-to-lose-map would be as an escape map, and that's not entirely the same thing
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Mar 2, 2015 22:22
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Cake Attack posted:the only way to do a you're supposed-to-lose-map would be as an escape map, and that's not entirely the same thing Heh, posted while I edited my own post. I could see an Escape map working quite well here, especially if the ante was upped by making you lose any character who didn't escape. Or maybe something less punishing, where anyone left behind would survive but lose 1 from every stat (3 HP) to represent quintessence drain.
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Mar 2, 2015 22:25
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no thracia 776 every man left behind nothing like losing every character going into 4x
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Mar 2, 2015 22:26
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Hmmm...well, perma-death resetting would be a problem I suppose. Maybe when someone dies, the game-over music doesn't start, and instead of the regular death animation, you'd have the character's just running off the screen? As for what Prism brought up about there actually being something to do, what if such a fight were a pre-requisite for getting Jaffar? Like, maybe if you don't beat him up, Jaffar won't have the wounds he has in Chapter 23, and Nino never gets the chance to show him how nice she is. And if that doesn't happen, then Jaffar goes ahead and off's Nino, just as planned (though you'd have to find a way for Zephiel to still survive). Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 22:26
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Ephidel doesn't send Jaffar away. Jaffar is the boss standing on the Escape tile. He retreats when knocked to 0 HP (his HP would be 1 less than his "actual" HP from his recruitment chapter, so really you're knocking him down to 1). Maybe take away his Silencer ability for game feel reasons. I like it.
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Mar 2, 2015 22:28
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quote:Anyone else feel the same way I do? You'd also have to reward them somehow if they manage to do well, or else people would just rush their characters into the middle of the enemies army and wait to die. efb Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 22:30
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Melth posted:I'm inclined to say logistics and resource management is definitely a strategy element. That particular one sounds like it might not have been very well implemented. but it sounds like strategy nonetheless. One of the things I liked about the GBA titles, especially 6 and 7, was that you could only shop on certain levels and the store selection was limited. If you didn't spend your funds well or you didn't get enough gear to get by, you could be in serious trouble. So you had to try to plan ahead and save both money and weaponry for a rainy day. Conceivably if you REALLY screwed up things could become unwinnable, but that would require like a dozen catastrophic blunders. But in FE8 you could buy at least iron weapons (at inflated price) even in the middle of the Lagdou ruins. I think that was a good idea overall because no one wants to get to floor 9 and then have to give up because even though they have 10,000,000 gold they don't have any weapons. But I didn't much like that you could go back to any store in the world and buy whatever you wanted between chapters. And then from 9 onward it's generally been waaaaaay too easy to just purchase what you want whenever you want it. Not to mention in many of those titles you no longer need promotion items- let alone class-specific ones- which removes that element of resource management and strategic choice between characters. Ranked FE4 is a bit weird. The only real ranks are turn count and experience gained, and the exp rank is way more strict than the turns rank so the run is all about farming exp. There's an item that doubles exp gain, but costs a lot of money to swap around between your units, so you have to manage your money very carefully to achieve maximum exp gain. Unfortunately, you also have to struggle with FE4's godawful arena system, which amounts to a bunch of mandatory grinding each chapter. It's by far the biggest source of money and exp in the game. You can find a complete run on Youtube with commentary if you're interested. TBH I'd like to see a no-arena run of FE4. I suspect you'd have to focus all your resources on a few dudes, but it would be a lot less painful to actually play.
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Mar 2, 2015 23:49
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quote:Unwinnable Quasi-Cinematic Battle! I'm rarely fond of these for many reasons. Some FEs have done largely unwinnable survival or escape chapters well, but critically you're not totally helpless on those maps. You have an objective and you can achieve it- you just don't achieve it by slaughtering all the enemies. For example, in FE10 chapter 1 you have to have the Dawn Brigade escape because starting 6 turns in or whatever, huge hordes of enemies will start spawning behind you. So you have to fight through the starting enemies efficiently and quickly, visit the local villages, and then escape before the big army arrives. That's a well-done escape chapter. You can't annihilate the enemy, but you can still win. And your win is because of your strategy (and some luck on hard mode), so your choices and strategy still matter. What you described sounds more like FE10 chapter 9 or whatever it was where it's just Micaiah and the Black Knight vs the world. That chapter is essentially an unskippable cinematic with a 50% chance of automatically replaying itself (because Micaiah can't be rescued and the enemy often have bows and handaxes and you have no idea where the enemy is in the fog, so there are serious odds of her just not dodging and therefore dying). That chapter was awful. We get the point: the Black Knight is all mysterious and powerful and whatever. We get that by round 2. Why do I have to watch like 9 more turns of him hacking up random fighters while I keep my fingers crossed that the enemies with bows and handaxes who I can't protect Micaiah from don't all hit her? Or like the actual cinematic before the terrible final level of Awakening. The enemy just uses his BS god powers to instant kill your whole party. Why didn't he do that before? Or ever again? And why didn't Naga mention that was totally going to happen and defeat the entire purpose of what you'd been trying to do up till then? Anyway, then the power of friendship or maybe just your ally's BS god powers, I forget which, undo it all and you get on with your fight as scheduled. With a bunch of cheesy and stupid dialogue thrown in. Sorry, I'm realizing this sounds rather harsh. I'm not saying your idea is bad (though I personally do prefer the present form of the cutscene); I'm saying those levels seem to be what results when Intelligent Systems tries to do something like your idea. Other game series have unwinnable bossfight type scenes that are done well, but not Fire Emblem so far that I can think of. Fionordequester posted:
I think one point you may have missed is that Eliwood didn't go to Valor to kill Nergal. He wasn't trying to save the world; he just wanted to save his father. He doesn't really know that Nergal is even a threat to civilization until after this chapter. Remember, the player has overheard Ephidel and Elbert and Nergal talking about bringing back the dragons and that destroying humankind, but Eliwood never heard any of that. He's completely confused when Elbert suddenly yells something about dragons at Nergal. And he and Hector and Lyn are all totally stunned when suddenly the gate opens and there's a dragon in the room. They have no idea what's going on. In fact, we see that Eliwood was quite content to just grab Ninian and have Hector grab Elbert and scram. No need to fight Nergal at all from his perspective. So yeah, they definitely didn't go to Valor to kill Nergal. They were there to rescue Elbert and, catastrophically, they had no idea how powerful Nergal was or even that he would actually be a problem for them. A second critical point is that Nergal escaped. He's not just lying there half-dead on the ground; he vanished. They have absolutely no idea where he went to. Maybe on the Dread Isle, maybe elsewhere. The next thing we hear about him, he's probably in Bern. We just know he's very far east of Lycia. Conceivably he's actually east of Bern on an island or another continent or who knows what. Canonically, we don't know he's back on Valor until his strength is fully recovered and he takes Ninian after Cog of Destiny. Come to think of it, the next time we see him in a cutscene, his location is some sort of strange palace-looking place. And we're never told what or where that is. To me it looks like he has a secret stronghold underground somewhere that he retreated to. So Eliwood and company could have spent weeks -low on supplies and weapons- searching a fog and forest-shrouded island full of assassins in the hopes that Nergal was still there and still weak. Or they could get the heck out while the getting was good and make their plans for what to do about him when they know where he is and what he wants and aren't in danger of being killed at any moment. As for the morphs, remember that Nergal's style is not to be direct and confrontational. He's secretive and works from the shadows and doesn't want anyone to know his true power or the true threat he poses until it's too late. He keeps his secrets so well that even Ostia's masterful spy network - which has pretty thoroughly infiltrated the Black Fang it seems- knows absolutely nothing about him except that he's behind Sonia and she's controlling Brendan Reed. (Come to think of it, it's doubtful that Brendan knows about Nergal. At the very least, he doesn't know anything about Limstella and has never seen her before). Having all his morphs running around would tip his hand to way too many people. The Black Fang would know he exists and has a giant army and the army looks rather similar to Sonia. Ostia would find out. And, unlike when Black Fang members die, each of his morphs getting killed is actually a setback for Nergal. Remember, he can and does steal the quintessence of dead fang members. He pretty much does that to the whole organization by the end. But we're also told that morphs definitely have no quintessence that can be recycled. So everything he invested in them is lost when one is destroyed. That's why he only uses morphs when the Black Fang has collapsed and he can't rely on them any longer.
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Mar 3, 2015 00:14
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Int Sys did an "Oh god. Run!" moment right in exactly one of their games. When Hardin shows up and starts chasing you in that one chapter of fe3/12 you run. You absolutely run.
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Mar 3, 2015 02:06
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Yeah when I tried that fight my first time in Japanese I couldn't read the description on the Dark Orb and moved my best guy over there to kick rear end and, uh... I liked the "oh god run" battle in FE5 where they sic Galzus on you. The music is great and his stats and skills make is obvious that you will absolutely lose if you step to him. But that fight was already an escape map; he's just the time limit.
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Mar 3, 2015 02:59
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Slightly off topic question here (and while I'm talking, I might as well say that I won't be posting an update till Wednesday since I'm having a bit of a time crunch right now): have any of you played the GBA game The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age?
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Mar 3, 2015 03:09
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i played a GBA lord of the rings game but im not sure which
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Mar 3, 2015 03:17
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Melth posted:Slightly off topic question here (and while I'm talking, I might as well say that I won't be posting an update till Wednesday since I'm having a bit of a time crunch right now): have any of you played the GBA game The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age? I played the PS2 version a long time ago, but i remember liking it. For some reason the battle system reminded me of FFX I'm not sure if the GBA version is different from it, though
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Mar 3, 2015 03:18
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Fatcat214 posted:I played the PS2 version a long time ago, but i remember liking it. For some reason the battle system reminded me of FFX the reason is because they pretty much copied it wholesale, as i recall
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Mar 3, 2015 03:19
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My understanding is that the games are totally different, though I haven't played the PS2 version myself. The GBA version is a turn based strategy game with RPG elements. I can't think of a good game to compare it to exactly, but maybe like Advance Wars: Dual Strike? But without any building units and with your CO on the battlefield. Eh, it's pretty unique, so that comparison doesn't really work either.
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Mar 3, 2015 03:36
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I remember playing that one, but I don't remember much about it except the fact that it was crazy different from the console game of the same name. The console one was a nifty, standard jrpg while the gba got this weird little tactics tbs thing. I'm pretty sure I enjoyed both versions, but it's been a while.
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Mar 3, 2015 03:47
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Cake Attack posted:no thracia 776 every man left behind Imagine how funny it would be if they did that though
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Mar 3, 2015 03:52
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Hey, you mind if I link this thread in the OP of my FE12 thread? I've referenced Blazing Sword like 3 times now and realize that a lot of people might have no loving idea what I'm talking about if they haven't played it.
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Mar 3, 2015 05:34
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LordHippoman posted:Hey, you mind if I link this thread in the OP of my FE12 thread? I've referenced Blazing Sword like 3 times now and realize that a lot of people might have no loving idea what I'm talking about if they haven't played it. By all means! You might also consider linking them to the archive of Artix's: http://lparchive.org/Fire-Emblem-Blazing-Sword/ It was reading part of his that made me want to do this one, and his is a bit more general.
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Mar 3, 2015 06:41
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Melth posted:What you described sounds more like FE10 chapter 9 or whatever it was where it's just Micaiah and the Black Knight vs the world. That chapter is essentially an unskippable cinematic with a 50% chance of automatically replaying itself (because Micaiah can't be rescued and the enemy often have bows and handaxes and you have no idea where the enemy is in the fog, so there are serious odds of her just not dodging and therefore dying). That chapter was awful. We get the point: the Black Knight is all mysterious and powerful and whatever. We get that by round 2. Why do I have to watch like 9 more turns of him hacking up random fighters while I keep my fingers crossed that the enemies with bows and handaxes who I can't protect Micaiah from don't all hit her? Well...yeah, you'd definitely have to balance such a chapter carefully. Really the problem with the FE10 example is that you can actually LOSE, and be forced to start the chapter over, which is obviously bad. And then Awakening is...Awakening. Really good in some areas, not so good in others. Melth posted:Sorry, I'm realizing this sounds rather harsh. I'm not saying your idea is bad (though I personally do prefer the present form of the cutscene); I'm saying those levels seem to be what results when Intelligent Systems tries to do something like your idea. Other game series have unwinnable bossfight type scenes that are done well, but not Fire Emblem so far that I can think of. Oh don't worry about it! I love debating personally, so it's no skin off my nose. Melth posted:Two critical points I missed Ah, good catch on both points. You're right, I DID forget. Only thing though, is that even if it's justified in-universe, it's still kind of infuriating from an out-of-universe perspective to think of just how easily you could stop Nergal right then and there. Which, I think may be why people point these things out as plot holes when really, as you said, they make sense. Whereas with my idea, you'd kind of have the FF7 effect of "holy cow, Sephiroth is unstoppable! And we're supposed to compete with that?!". But then at the very end, it all comes full circle at the end, when you get to cream the very same guys who crushed you way back in the beginning of the game  . As for gameplay problems...Nihilarian posted:Maybe, but most players reset after losing a character. Yeah...I'll admitting, the tendency to reset would be a problem, one that I don't know a fool-proof way of resolving. Best I can think of is maybe Nergal says something like "don't worry, I'm not going to kill any of you...yet. Ephidel! Crush them. Make them suffer. But try not to kill any of them just yet! I want to extract their quintessence before I extinguish them. Then you may do as you like!" And then whenever one of the non-Lord characters die, a map animation plays where either Ephidel or Nergal teleports their sprites off the map rather than having the typical death animations play. Then one of the Lord's will shout something like "No! We can't let Nergal have their way with <whoever just got captured>! Come on Mark! Let's kill these cravens, and head home!" Of course, I'm not sure how believable that would be, but...it's something? Of course, if you're say, a speed runner, you could just march Lyn up to Jaffar, let him kill her, and just end the map in 30 seconds or so, which is how I get around the "feels too much like a pointless cinematic" problem. As for rewarding the players, now that I think about it, if all the enemies are promoted...that means you're getting TONS of experience for each and every one you kill, right? So each enemy killed would basically be an automatic level for anyone who's not already promoted. Combine that with maybe being able to recruit Nino later if you beat Jaffar (or we can take Sorite's idea), maybe Ephidel drops a really good item, maybe each morph drops an Elixer or something, and perhaps you could even get the Rex Hasta or Reinfleche if you somehow kill either Uhai or Darin (and then neither of those two would reappear in the final chapter, replace instead by a generic mook, who ALSO may have a droppable one of those). That way killing Darin or Uhai would be kind of like killing Dozah and getting his Dragon Shield in Fire Emblem: Gaiden. I dunno, I guess I think it would just be cool if we had a chapter like that, that was well implemented, and wasn't necessarily an "Escape" map, or anything like that  . Anyways though, I'm almost ready to show that S Rank Lyn w/Level 7 Nils playthrough, so look forward to that...soon!
Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 08:24
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quote:"Oh God, run!" moments FE9 also had some good ones, especially its version of the port chapter. Of course, once you know the special mechanics it isn't as stressful. But on a first playthrough it can lead to some big-time chaos. And then again on your first Hard Mode run.
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Mar 3, 2015 09:36
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And now for a sneak peek into Fionordquester's special bonus episode, just for you lucky fellows! Yes, what we have here is....png) An insane Sain... .png) And Nils the pincushion and training dummy! Just how did I get myself such an incredibly powerful Sain? How could I have possibly have still S-ranked the Combat score? And can you still have a high enough Funds rank to spare using both an Angelic Robe AND a Knights Crest at the same time? Find out, on the exciting bonus episode of Melth's Hector Hard Mode Max Ranking Run! Be there!
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Mar 5, 2015 12:31
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That Sain is more than insain, and that's really Sain something.
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Mar 5, 2015 13:12
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He sacrificed his HP for those stats.
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Mar 5, 2015 14:01
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Worth it.
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Mar 5, 2015 21:54
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Who cares if you can't take too many hits if you just murder things by breathing on them?
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Mar 5, 2015 21:55
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ChaosArgate posted:Who cares if you can't take too many hits if you just murder things by breathing on them? Because if there are 2 enemies you're kind of hosed
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Mar 6, 2015 01:42
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Not with that speed he isn't. Dodge tanks are a thing in Fire Emblem, and that Sain makes a pretty good one. 26 HP and 11 defense isn't even that squishy, he could take two hits easy and survive.
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Mar 6, 2015 02:23
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He's only 2 behind on HP for his level, and 3 ahead on defense (with rounding, duh) -- in other words, he's actually tougher than a statistically average Sain.
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Mar 6, 2015 02:32
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D3m3 posted:He's only 2 behind on HP for his level, and 3 ahead on defense (with rounding, duh) -- in other words, he's actually tougher than a statistically average Sain. I didn't even notice he was only level 13. Wow.
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Mar 6, 2015 03:16
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Compared to my Sain of the same level, that one has -3 HP, +5 Str, -2 Skil, +3 Speed (over my absurdly fast one), +4 Luck, +1 Def (over my already tough one), and -2 Res. Just unbelievable. Send him in to fight Nergal already.
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Mar 6, 2015 03:22
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As I said before, and this keeps being absolutely true:Blaze Dragon posted:The spirit of this thread is amazing strategy and awesome Sain level ups
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Mar 6, 2015 04:07
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Ama-zing Sain! How sweet the sound Of your plus ones to STRENGTH!
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Mar 6, 2015 15:54
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Lotish posted:Ama-zing Sain! He was once lame But now ~in-Sain~ With strength of green and length! I can't make the last line work 
Pooncha fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Mar 6, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2015 22:15
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