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Asiina posted:This isn't what I asked. Did you want specific player names? Because I can give you list of who I consider high quality players.
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Mar 8, 2015 00:19
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jon joe posted:Did you want specific player names? if im not on it im gonna vig you
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Mar 8, 2015 00:20
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HiipFire posted:if im not on it im gonna vig you You're not on it.
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Mar 8, 2015 00:21
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god i wish i had a vig
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Mar 8, 2015 00:21
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Asiina posted:Friends, before we get too into mafia, I want to talk about the mechanics and your opinions on them. This game is great. I sat down to look for cases and my mind ended up wandering to setup strategy stuff. I think people have been thinking a lot systems to break the game, and that's a dead end. Anything we come up with will be heard by scum and planned around. And while I acknowledge that moving the ballots is important, I think it's more important to look at the results of the night actions and their impact on the game. I gave some thought to best-case scenarios for each team, listed by relevance: TOWN FLAWLESS VICTORY Doc - hits NK target Cop - hits scum Roleblocker - hits scum using an ability SCUM FLAWLESS VICTORY Doc - misses NK target Cop - hits NK target Roleblocker - backup in case doc/cop can't be controlled I think that, at least on D1, sharing information about what who we intend to vote for is counterproductive, because Scum will be able to base the NK on their knowledge of who the town is going to target. In other words, keep this stuff in mind: - it is going to be really hard to coordinate a plan where the doc protects the NK. Our best chance, in my opinion, is making scum guess who the doc target is by not saying anything. - If scum know who the town is going to cop, they have both the roleblock and the NK to potentially make town lose the information. The most important factor regarding who to cop, in my opinion, is making sure that scum doesn't know who it's going to land on. - Best case for D2 is we hit scum with the cop investigation (and town gets the result). There's really no way, to my knowledge, to plan around scum getting the result other than to be aware of it. Second-best is we hit town but they live; at least it provides information to help case people. tl;dr - don't say who you're going to vote for Hey MMM, can you put links in the OP to posts sorted by player? Not having that messes me up.
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Mar 8, 2015 01:21
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Murmur Twin posted:- If scum know who the town is going to cop, they have both the roleblock and the NK to potentially make town lose the information. If I may interject my opinion here: That's why we doc the cop target, at least night 1. Also not discussing the doc target renders the doc in control of the scum if there's at least 2 scum in there. We can protect high-value people with it. Night 1 it's the cop target. Night 2+ it's the cop target from night 1 if we got town, or some town power role who revealed. Thank you for reading my opinion.
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Mar 8, 2015 01:29
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Hmmm, I reaaaaaally disagree with that plan. I think we have to sacrifice unknowns in order to get more confirmed town rather than doccing and copping randomly and hoping for the best. Remember if there's a tie then it goes to whichever ballot was submitted first. If scum end up with two ballots in the same room they will beat out the other 3 people voting randomly. I think there's absolutely no harm in knowing the cop target as long as N1 they are protected. Also, as I said I think openness makes sure that the roleblockers roleblock someone in their group to be sure not to hit the cop or the doc. Yes being open lets scum know our plans, but it makes it much harder for them to go against them without being outed if everyone knows what everyone else is supposed to be doing each night. With secrecy comes zero accountability.
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Mar 8, 2015 01:35
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Asiina posted:Hmmm, I reaaaaaally disagree with that plan. I agree with most of this
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Mar 8, 2015 02:02
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jon joe posted:Also not discussing the doc target renders the doc in control of the scum if there's at least 2 scum in there. We can protect high-value people with it. Night 1 it's the cop target. Night 2+ it's the cop target from night 1 if we got town, or some town power role who revealed. I'm not a fan of planning too far ahead. Unless I say otherwise, assume any strategy stuff I come with is referring to this vote only! I am concerned that scum have abilities beyond the nightkill. I'm basing this on the fact that MMM hinted that we shouldn't claim our ballot types (as scum might be able to use the information). I'm also basing this on the existance of a RB role in a game where it's impossible to realistically guage who is going to perform the cop/doc action. Asiina posted:I think we have to sacrifice unknowns in order to get more confirmed town rather than doccing and copping randomly and hoping for the best. I see going into D2 with a confirmed town to be the exact middle-of-the-road scenario. Getting a confrimed scum is a lot more useful, getting no information is a lot less useful. If we don't coordinate, and assuming random odds, we're also pretty likely to end up with a confirmed town. The only way to fall below that mark is to (a) choose to cop someone who is town and (b) have them NKed. (  ).... Haha I spent a good 10 minutes trying to write up my argument for why that's better than coordinating votes and I ended up convincing myself that you guys are probably right with the information that we currently have. It probably is better to just pick one person as a target and get them with both abilities. quote:Remember if there's a tie then it goes to whichever ballot was submitted first. If scum end up with two ballots in the same room they will beat out the other 3 people voting randomly. This point keeps screwing up my math. quote:Also, as I said I think openness makes sure that the roleblockers roleblock someone in their group to be sure not to hit the cop or the doc. I didn't think of this. That should be Mac or Asiina, and based on preliminary reads / my desire to hit scum with the RB action, I'd say Mac is a safer bet for RB target. Seconding whoever said this games' mechanics make for a fun D1.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:23
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Murmur Twin posted:tl;dr - don't say who you're going to vote for I agree with what jon joe said most recently and others have said before. Doc vote and cop vote the same person on D1.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:24
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Asiina posted:Also, as I said I think openness makes sure that the roleblockers roleblock someone in their group to be sure not to hit the cop or the doc.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:25
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MildManeredManikin posted:Role PMs out. Votefinder up soon. I'm still finishing the docs up so be patient. Sorry, I just got back and saw the role PM, catching up now.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:31
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Fast Luck posted:This makes sense but they would have to out themselves to do so. Yeah, I'm advocating openness in everything. But even if others don't want to (which I disagree with!!!!) we can still roleblock me or Mac since we know that both of us are in the roleblock room.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:31
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wall monitor posted:Actually question, what if there's a x-way tie for one of the roles? What happens then? Could that happen with five in a room? Seems like bullshit for someone to deadlock the vote like that.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:32
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Byers2142 posted:Could that happen with five in a room? Seems like bullshit for someone to deadlock the vote like that. Keep reading. There's been a lot of theory and strategy thrown about!
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Mar 8, 2015 02:33
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Pinterest Mom posted:Confirming that i am vanilla town Unless I'm mistaken, we're all vanilla town. The point of the rooms is to give everyone a say in how the powers get used, yeah?
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Mar 8, 2015 02:33
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wall monitor posted:A thought: should we publicly claim who we're passing ballots to? I can kind of envision scum getting their hands on the majority of ballots and then endlessly passing them around to themselves. Public ballot passing claims might keep that from happening. Might be a bit dangerous, though, as it gives scum information about the ballots being passed around. They can set up their own passing based on what the town's doing. They can't give it to themselves, but they can try to stack the rooms in their favor.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:36
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jon joe posted:Once we reveal the third power, we can discuss openly in this chat who we should use what powers on, instead of just discussing in the voting room. How is this a good idea? At all? In a standard game, openly planning night actions is bad for town. This game is no different.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:38
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Asiina posted:This is going to be hard to get right unless we get a bunch of confirmed towns in the doc room. Unless you're absolutely certain that there are no scum in the doc room, you'll never have a successful doc, because they'll just kill someone else.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:40
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jon joe posted:This is just some setup speculation, but it's possible scum have a power role to steal a ballot during the night from its intended target by targeting the person who was holding it. Not only that, there's the randomness of the role actor in the room. If you have two scum in the cop room, for instance, and they know the other people in the cop room, I'd kill one of the cops as scum because you lessen the chance of town getting the cop result.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:42
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wall monitor posted:All the tswift avatars make it hard to tell who's who. True mafia players play with avatars off. 
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Mar 8, 2015 02:43
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Epsilon Plus posted:If scum are stealing ballots, they could circumvent this, though. This would be particularly lovely if the scum also had a role that let them discern what ballot someone holds (ballotcop?). More than likely, though, I'd guess all scum are vanilla but I wouldn't put money on it. Epsilon's vote here rubs me the wrong way; it's a clear joke vote dropped at the end of a serious post, and wall monitor already had a vote on him from earlier in joke phase. Feels forced.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:45
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Ernie. posted:hello, i am still shaky on the mechanics Revealing who you send ballots to does make sense in this context, using it as a means to track who can and can't be scum based on who the scum pass to. That's not a bad idea at all.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:48
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wall monitor posted:Okay after sleeping on it my thoughts: If you delay, you have people who have died in the meantime and there are gaps that scum could try to hide in. Full and immediate claims, or none at all. Those are the two ways we can go; any compromise is going to be ineffective, I think.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:51
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jon joe posted:Votecount in the OP, please, MMM. Yeah, please add this MMM.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:52
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Yesss, Byers is coming around to the correct side!
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Mar 8, 2015 02:52
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Asiina posted:I would cop/doc Ernie because I think confirmed town Ernie would be very useful in this game. I would roleblock EP, I don't like his WM vote and his posting has been a little off to me. More of a gut read, but best I got for now. I like everything here, Asiina. I'd also throw out WM as a good roleblock; his suggestions sound sincere, but if you think about them they're all built in ways that scum could exploit. Ernie pointed out one of his posts, and the one I quoted before with delayed claims is rubbing me raw the more I think about it. It's the perfect compromise for scum to suggest.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:55
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Asiina posted:I don't like this post at all. Asiina sees what I see, I think. If you don't have information shared on the day of, scum can hide the gaps in information created by dead players. Again, eitehr share everything immediately, all the time, or share nothing. Those are the two options. I find suggestions of half measures to be scum trying to form cracks they can exploit.
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Mar 8, 2015 02:58
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wall monitor posted:Honestly your opinion on me sounds manufactured. You disagree with my strategy, sure thing no problem. I was suggesting holding off claims till D3 because I'm paranoid about what scum can do with their knowledge, especially if we're also announcing who we passed ballots to. ##vote wall monitor
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Mar 8, 2015 03:01
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jon joe posted:I think wall monitor is genuine in this interaction. WM, JJ, Epi+ scum team?
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Mar 8, 2015 03:03
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Byers2142 posted:How is this a good idea? At all? Unfortunately we have no choice to openly plan, even the docs are open planning if there's even 1 scum in them.
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Mar 8, 2015 03:07
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jon joe posted:If I may interject my opinion here: There are three powers. The Cop power is marginal, the doc power is useless, and the roleblocker power is probably the best chance we have to stop a scum nightkill. Personally, though, I don't care about any of them, especially since we have to assume that we either use them randomly or scum will be able to know the targets and work around them. What's important to me is the ballot passing. Ernie's idea to use it as a type of cop is great. It's why I'm drawn to agree with Asiina; we share openly about what we're doing with our ballots today.
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Mar 8, 2015 03:08
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Byers2142 posted:What's important to me is the ballot passing. Ernie's idea to use it as a type of cop is great. It's why I'm drawn to agree with Asiina; we share openly about what we're doing with our ballots today. Hmmm, fair. I wonder how punishing MMM made the scum ability , if any, to counter this situation, though? If he did, I guess we're playing into it. If he didn't, we broke the game open. :u
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Mar 8, 2015 03:09
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jon joe posted:Hmmm, fair. I wonder how punishing MMM made the scum ability , if any, to counter this situation, though? I've got a question out to MMM, and once he answers I'm going to share what I'm doing with my ballot openly in the thread. I'd encourage everyone else to share the same information I do, because then we can track the ballots.
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Mar 8, 2015 03:11
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Byers2142 posted:I've got a question out to MMM, and once he answers I'm going to share what I'm doing with my ballot openly in the thread. I'd encourage everyone else to share the same information I do, because then we can track the ballots. When you say you plan to share openly, which of the following applies (check all that apply): A) Your room B) Your target C) The person you're giving your ballot to
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Mar 8, 2015 03:14
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jon joe posted:When you say you plan to share openly, which of the following applies (check all that apply): A and C for sure, and more besides. B I'm still weighing in my head, but I'm inclined to say target chat should stay in the docs on the off chance we get a scum-free room, but that we need to claim the target we're voting for in the room and it should be revealed the next day. Again, so we can track discrepancies.
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Mar 8, 2015 03:19
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Byers2142 posted:A and C for sure, and more besides. B I'm still weighing in my head, but I'm inclined to say target chat should stay in the docs on the off chance we get a scum-free room, but that we need to claim the target we're voting for in the room and it should be revealed the next day. Again, so we can track discrepancies. Okay. After MMM answers your question, let's have an in-thread ballot as to whether A and C is something everyone wants to reveal and why/why not. Thank you for your words, Byers. I appreciate them. 
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Mar 8, 2015 03:21
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Deadline is in about 24 hours. I have an irrational hatred of no-euphemism D1's and might just hammer myself rather than let D1 go without a euphemism, if it looks like it might go that way.
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Mar 8, 2015 03:24
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wall monitor posted:Deadline is in about 24 hours. I have an irrational hatred of no-euphemism D1's and might just hammer myself rather than let D1 go without a euphemism, if it looks like it might go that way. Plurality vote, there will never be a no lynch this game unless we intend it to happen.
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Mar 8, 2015 03:26
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wall monitor posted:Deadline is in about 24 hours. I have an irrational hatred of no-euphemism D1's and might just hammer myself rather than let D1 go without a euphemism, if it looks like it might go that way. Oh, is the deadline that close? Well'p. I vote for. Little. Mac. ##vote Little Mac What? You want a reason? Well, it's a lurker vote! Hohoho!
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Mar 8, 2015 03:26
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