|
This is actually really annoying because absolutely everybody has to be on board or the openness plan does not work. If information is missing then there's no point to any of it.
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 13:29 |
|
|
Asiina posted:I have no doubt that scum are going to be able to mess with it somehow, but either they mess with it and we have no way of knowing it happened or they mess with it and because we were completely open we were able to track it in some way. This.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:05
|
|
|
Asiina posted:This is actually really annoying because absolutely everybody has to be on board or the openness plan does not work. If information is missing then there's no point to any of it. Also this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:05
|
|
|
Byers2142 posted:I'm not too confident on those powers being worth anything this game. The needed coordination for town to get the powers to target who they want and the randomness of who gets results makes both of those powers really weak, but the roleblocker power is probably the best weapon we have if we can successfully target scum. I'd rather lose the doc and cop to have full use of the roleblocker power.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:06
|
|
|
Scum might also be able to keep themselves in the ballot rotation easy if they have a stealing power, effectively passing scum to scum iin the eyes of town. Scum A announces they were giving to Scum B (also scum). Scum A steals from player C while receiving, as normal, from player D, and gives to the player scum plan to nightkill. Scum A announces 1 ballot, scum B announces 1 ballot. Player C's target announces ballot is missing. Player C and his target look scummy. Scum A-B manage to confirm B as town if A is scum, later A is killed and the entire player base assumes B is town. I dunno, it just seems easy to compromise like that, yeah?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:06
|
|
|
jon joe posted:Let's just say, I feel that scum are going to be able to play some heavy wifom with ballot tracking somehow, maybe even confirm scum as town. There's a few things they can not twist. For starters, they can not give ballots to each other. Which means every time scum flip, ever person they gave a ballot becomes confirmed town. That is huge, and it's why scum will not want to share information. I guarantee that most of the scum team is arguing against ballot tracking in the thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:08
|
|
|
jon joe posted:Scum might also be able to keep themselves in the ballot rotation easy if they have a stealing power, effectively passing scum to scum iin the eyes of town. Other option: Nobody announces what they're doing D2: ??????????????????????
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:08
|
|
|
jon joe posted:Scum might also be able to keep themselves in the ballot rotation easy if they have a stealing power, effectively passing scum to scum iin the eyes of town. Another reason why you need the rooms.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
Byers2142 posted:Another reason why you need the rooms. What do you mean? Asiina posted:Other option: We can announce targets without passes so town is all on the same page, making use of our powers like normal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:10
|
|
|
jon joe posted:What do you mean? Announcing the rooms as well allows us to see where people are in rooms they shouldn't be in, or have more ballots for the room then they should have. We're not just tracking number of ballots, but which rooms, specifically, each person is in. Doing so makes it much harder for scum to hide ballot shenanigans.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:14
|
|
|
Hey this is a lot of pages. I am guessing you're all talking about whether or not we should break the anonymity in the things, right? That's a bad idea. Don't do that. Opinions on this subject are alignment neutral.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:17
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:Hey this is a lot of pages. I am guessing you're all talking about whether or not we should break the anonymity in the things, right? That's a bad idea. Don't do that. Opinions on this subject are alignment neutral. Incorrect.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
This game is extremely frustrating.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:22
|
|
|
jon joe posted:Oh, is the deadline that close? Well'p. Hm a scum post! Far too self-conscious and concerned with the appearance of his vote.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:27
|
|
|
I haven't seen any compelling reason to keep things a secret. Yes, scum can probably disrupt our abilities, but they can do that whether we share information or not, so we might as well share and give ourselves as much knowledge as we can.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:27
|
|
|
Asiina posted:Incorrect. On which level? It's setup speculation. At worst, discussion is a handy way for scum to appear to be contributing without actually doing so. So is responding to setup speculation from bad town.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:29
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:On which level? It's setup speculation. At worst, discussion is a handy way for scum to appear to be contributing without actually doing so. So is responding to setup speculation from bad town. Claiming "lol setup speculation" doesn't apply in games that involve drastically different mechanics that need to be figured out for strategy sake. These are important things to discuss. Don't handwave it away.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:31
|
|
|
Asiina posted:I haven't seen any compelling reason to keep things a secret. Yes, scum can probably disrupt our abilities, but they can do that whether we share information or not, so we might as well share and give ourselves as much knowledge as we can. Oh noooo Asiina this is probably wrong
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
Byers2142 posted:Announcing the rooms as well allows us to see where people are in rooms they shouldn't be in, or have more ballots for the room then they should have. We're not just tracking number of ballots, but which rooms, specifically, each person is in. Doing so makes it much harder for scum to hide ballot shenanigans. But scum A can pretend to be scum B in the ballot room, since I assume it stays at 5 slots no matter what.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
I'm not handwaving anything and this is asinine dude. You're making too many assumptions and I'm sorry because I've been in this position but this is not going to happen.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:34
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:Hm a scum post! Far too self-conscious and concerned with the appearance of his vote. "Why" is a question I get often when I place my vote, and I hate that question, so I like to pre-empt it. Thank you for reading this post. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:34
|
|
|
jon joe posted:"Why" is a question I get often when I place my vote, and I hate that question, so I like to pre-empt it. Thank you for reading this post. I don't super care about meta defenses and it's not natural town behavior.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:36
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:I don't super care about meta defenses and it's not natural town behavior. Well, it's not even a meta defense because I started doing it this game. I am sorry my behavior is not town enough for you, I will try to be more town in the future so as to not provoke incorrect reads. Thank you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:40
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:I'm not handwaving anything and this is asinine dude. You're making too many assumptions and I'm sorry because I've been in this position but this is not going to happen. Playing this game blind is moronic and I want no part of it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:44
|
|
|
You're saying that something isn't scummy because you say isn't scummy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:45
|
|
|
Asiina posted:Playing this game blind is moronic and I want no part of it. You're not actually attempting to communicate with me here. Sorry, if you want to convince me of something this won't do it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:You're saying that something isn't scummy because you say isn't scummy. Correct! I am glad we have had this revelation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:50
|
|
|
I've already made my case. So has byers. You're basically responding with "lol nope"
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:52
|
|
|
I'm in a bad mood right now for reasons outside this game so I will continue posting tomorrow (in real life, not in game).
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:52
|
|
|
Specifically, a really bad game of Dota.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:52
|
|
|
jon joe posted:Correct! I am glad we have had this revelation. ##vote Jon joe
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:53
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:Hey this is a lot of pages. I am guessing you're all talking about whether or not we should break the anonymity in the things, right? That's a bad idea. Don't do that. Opinions on this subject are alignment neutral. Somberbrero posted:I'm not handwaving anything and this is asinine dude. You're making too many assumptions and I'm sorry because I've been in this position but this is not going to happen. You come in the thread with these kinds of posts then say I'm being flippant and not trying to communicate?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:55
|
|
|
Yes? You're using more words to type 'no, u.'
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 04:57
|
|
|
Maybe actually read the thread? Lots of people had an initial reaction that changed after thinking about it. Stop being so dismissive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 05:08
|
|
|
I have done a quick readthrough and I don't see anything to change my mind.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 05:10
|
|
|
I sent this PM to MMM, but I'm also going to say it here because I think everyone needs to see it. I'm just getting super frustrated cause I think this system is probably broken if people are quiet and the vocal people who are all "nah" annoy me but it's more the people who are going to be silent and not give their information even if we all agree that's the best thing to do, so it all falls apart. It's like in The Thing where they KNOW the rules of The Thing. They know that it can imitate a person but it takes a little bit of time and that it is afraid of them as a group. They know all of this like 1/3rd of the way into the movie. So what do they do? They find excuse after excuse to split up and be alone. And then by the time they decide they are going to stick together it's too late. The damage has been done because they didn't follow this loving protocol since the beginning. They have no hope to salvage it. This is what is happening in this game. This game is The Thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 05:30
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 05:35
|
|
|
Thread was closed to respond to an increased number of PMs. I'm sorry if this game has upset any of you, and also apologize for being catty with my thread close there. I don't want to be patronizing here but an essential part if games like these is arguing about stuff like this and if you're worked up over it please take a short break. It's sometimes very easy to let the game affect you strongly and while I encourage engagement, I want all of my players to feel good during their play. I'm glad this thread has invigorated all of you so much, but please don't give up out of frustration. My pm box has been cleared. If there are any other issues, let me know.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
To continue my thought, at some point in this game, you're going to want to figure out what's happening. It may be a few days from now, it may be at LYLO. But it is inevitable. It absolutely always happens. People who say that setup spec is stupid are being incredibly shortsighted because setup spec absolutely always comes into play. "Is that fakeclaim plausible?" "Would the mod have put in this role to counter that role?" "Are we in LYLO or do we have another day?" "Is that a vig or an SK?" This poo poo comes up without fail every time. It's going to come up here. But instead of being able to answer these questions with information we will be lost in the dark because some people decided right at the beginning to say "setup spec is asinine" and we will lose the opportunity.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 05:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 13:29 |
|
|
I can't go to work without you guys having a thread closed. Jesus.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2015 06:19
|
|
