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The Current Day 1 Votecount  wall monitor (4): Meinberg, Epsilon Plus, Ernie., Byers2142 jon joe (2): HiipFire, Somberbrero Little Mac (1): jon joe Ernie. (0): wall monitor, -wall monitor Epsilon Plus (0): Ernie., -Ernie. Not Voting (8): Asiina, Fast Luck, Hal Incandenza, Little Mac, Murmur Twin, Pinterest Mom, Tremendous Taste, wall monitor With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to be executed.  The current deadline is March 09th, 2015 at midnight EDT -- that's in about 22 hours, 36 minutes.Hiipfire is currently beating Epsilon Plus by 8 to 6
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Mar 8, 2015 06:23
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votefinder posted:Hiipfire is currently beating Epsilon Plus by 8 to 6 Like loving hell you are, Hiipfire.
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Mar 8, 2015 06:27
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jon joe posted:Let's just say, I feel that scum are going to be able to play some heavy wifom with ballot tracking somehow, maybe even confirm scum as town. I really hate "confirmed" town in general and I am sure as poo poo going to be looking to punish anyone who even thinks the word "confirmed" about a player until they flip or five people are willing to say they investigated him*. *scum can lie; will not accept five people vouching for townhood
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Mar 8, 2015 06:34
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This is my last post on this before bed. I want people to consider this CAREFULLY and not just give a gut reaction here. There are absolutely pros and cons of doing this in different ways but if every single one of us doesn't agree on a policy then the whole thing is truly pointless. This is not a minor thing. Everyone has to weigh in. I've outlined the 4 major possibilities here. A) Share nothing (even in the rooms) B) Share Room and Recipient, but not target (even in the rooms) C) Share Room and Recipient, but target only in rooms D) Share everything So let's see how these play out for a bunch of possible scum abilities: Nightkill A) have to guess out of all remaining players where doc will go unless they control it B) have to guess out of all remaining players where doc will go unless they control it C) If they are in the room, will know doc and be able to avoid it D) Will always be able to avoid the doc Framer/Redirector/Bus Driver for cop A) Will have to guess, don't know who is doing the copping B) Know who will be possible cop, but don't know target C) Know who will be possible cop and if they are in the room know target D) Know who will be possible cop and know target Ballot Steal/Redirect A) Nobody will know B) Will know if ballots aren't where they say they are, know if rooms are compromised C) Will know if ballots aren't where they say they are, know if rooms are compromised D) Will know if ballots aren't where they say they are, know if rooms are compromised Scum overrides the vote for power A) Nobody will know B) Nobody will know C) If town uses the power they will know D) If town uses the power they will know And here is how they relate to rules we know for sure: "Scum can't pass ballots to each other" A) Can never trust someone claiming after the fact if a scum flips B) Can follow that ballot back and clear whoever gave the scum the ballot and whoever scum gave their ballot to C) Can follow that ballot back and clear whoever gave the scum the ballot and whoever scum gave their ballot to D) Can follow that ballot back and clear whoever gave the scum the ballot and whoever scum gave their ballot to "If there is a tie, fastest wins" A) People pick randomly, hard to know who has how many ballots, whoever is fastest to vote wins B) Should be able to track ballots to see if someone has multiple, but could be whoever is fastest to vote wins C) Can track ballots and can prevent ties by coordinating target D) Can track ballots and can prevent ties by coordinating target To me it seems like B and C are the best options (assuming that results are told the next day). I do think this clearly shows that hiding what room you are in and where you are sending your ballot has far more downsides than positives. In addition, saying everything in the thread beforehand is also not the best plan, so I'll back off from that. I think that planning your target in the room outweighs doing it randomly both in making sure it's going somewhere useful and in checking the next day that it went where you thought it would. I would like EVERYBODY to give an opinion on this.
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Mar 8, 2015 07:25
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D is absolutely the worst policy choice available. C is probably the best choice available but I think you're approaching this a bit too cut-and-dry.
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Mar 8, 2015 07:31
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E) hunt scrums
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Mar 8, 2015 07:42
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Epsilon Plus posted:Like loving hell you are, Hiipfire. This isn't loving fair, I went to sleep and I suddenly missed 100 posts. gently caress timezones
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Mar 8, 2015 12:22
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What the actual value of the powers if everyone knows about them? Close to zero, right? Roleblocker is easily avoided. If we do the cop/doctor thing, you maybe get someone who is confirmed town for one day, but then that person is the obvious NK target the next night. Unless you use the doctor on them, but that means you can't use the doctor on the person being copped that night, who could get killed.
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Mar 8, 2015 13:50
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I like how every individual room result will turn into some weird micro avalon: the resistance game also we should be public about this poo poo if were all public about it, we gain the ability to track scum through pure logic and i dont know about you guys but when i play mafia i like having to not rely on my lovely reads
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Mar 8, 2015 14:19
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Logic only works when you have all the information, though. Otherwise you get a spectacularly lethal guess-and-check. Also I forgot to ##unvote
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Mar 8, 2015 15:19
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Epsilon Plus posted:Logic only works when you have all the information, though. Otherwise you get a spectacularly lethal guess-and-check. Well that's the problem, we need people to not bitch out like bitches
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Mar 8, 2015 15:57
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Somberbrero posted:E) hunt scrums ##vote Somber
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Mar 8, 2015 16:50
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Pinterest Mom posted:What the actual value of the powers if everyone knows about them? Close to zero, right? Agreed, let's leave everything up to chance. No point trying to figure anything out through logic and information when we can just draw names out of a hat!
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Mar 8, 2015 17:06
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I think having the doctor be secretly selected by ballot (without the voters discussing with each other who they're voting for) is better than publicly deciding on the doctor target, at least for d2+.
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Mar 8, 2015 17:13
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At least then you have the WIFOM of "are they doctoring the confirmed townie or are they doctoring the cop investigation"
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Mar 8, 2015 17:16
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I agreeAsiina posted:I think protecting the cop target is good for the first night if only to be sure we have at least one confirmed town or a scum at the beginning of D2. Then after that the docs can choose either the already confirmed town or the person being copped and so on and so forth. Yes they'll just pick some other people to NK at first who aren't confirmed, but a growing list of confirmed town is something that can't be ignored. Gotta try to play the long game here.
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Mar 8, 2015 17:22
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Like I think whether you decide in your doc to openly come to an agreement or to do it individually depends on the power and how sure you are of the people in that doc. Those were my B and C options and they both have strengths and weaknesses to them. However, there is no logically good reason to keep what room you are in and who you are giving your ballot to a secret.
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Mar 8, 2015 17:25
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I voted for myself and gave the ballot to E Plus
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Mar 8, 2015 18:04
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Asiina posted:However, there is no logically good reason to keep what room you are in and who you are giving your ballot to a secret.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:12
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Also, anything that requires 100% participation to work kind of seems like a pipe dream. If you set your heart on it then realistically you'll end up disappointed.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:22
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Fast Luck posted:Also, anything that requires 100% participation to work kind of seems like a pipe dream. If you set your heart on it then realistically you'll end up disappointed. Agreed, let's not even try because we might fail. That's the spirit.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:33
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Fast Luck posted:Also, anything that requires 100% participation to work kind of seems like a pipe dream. If you set your heart on it then realistically you'll end up disappointed. Sad, but true. I mean, look at lumpen-lists.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:34
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gently caress it, I'm not going to spend time with a bunch of whiners who aren't even going to try because it might be hard  You all deserve to lose. I'm out, find a replacement. Removing this thread from my bookmarks. Good luck idiots.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:36
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That's probably for the best. I'm glad you replaced out before I did.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:49
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Maybe I'm weird but I like the rules and strategy debates...
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Mar 8, 2015 18:53
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Asiina posted:gently caress it, I'm not going to spend time with a bunch of whiners who aren't even going to try because it might be hard also holy poo poo, so much ragequit here.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:55
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Expect a deadline extension if I get everything sorted out.
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Mar 8, 2015 19:43
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HiipFire posted:I voted for myself and gave the ballot to E Plus What? Like, voted to be the target of your night action?
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Mar 8, 2015 20:38
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Epsilon Plus posted:What? Like, voted to be the target of your night action? yes
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Mar 8, 2015 20:42
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HiipFire posted:yes lel
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Mar 8, 2015 20:53
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I am copping byers. I suggest the other cops cop the same, and that the docs doc the same. I am giving my ballot to a player I hope is town. Okay, thank you and have a nice day.
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Mar 8, 2015 21:10
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Asiina posted:gently caress it, I'm not going to spend time with a bunch of whiners who aren't even going to try because it might be hard Three things! 1 - if you're not having fun then it probably isn't best to play; that said, I hope you can walk away for a few hours, cool off, and come back, because your input has been useful so far. It's a marathon, not a sprint  2 - remember that this game has people in it that are doing their best to make town fail. People who are disagreeing with you (or just staying silent) may be doing so specifically as a strategy to not let it gain traction. Objectively, the fact that one person disagreeing can screw it up is a flaw - in that regard, it's like a vote split on Survivor. 3 - the discussion over how to do it is the interesting part! The end goal isn't to break the game, it's to find scum, and I'm sure it will be winnable or losable by either team regardless of what happens D1. Asiina posted:This is my last post on this before bed. I want people to consider this CAREFULLY and not just give a gut reaction here. There are absolutely pros and cons of doing this in different ways but if every single one of us doesn't agree on a policy then the whole thing is truly pointless. This is not a minor thing. Everyone has to weigh in. I think B is the best option. I think that who to target with the votes and how to treat the room/ballot information are two separate topics. As I mentioned in my effortpost earlier, I think that the only important game-changing swing in night actions that the town has a shot of controlling is making sure a cop investigation lands on someone who isn't targetted by scum for anything. The best case scenario is a Scum result, as it gives us an easy kill for D2. I don't think that aligning the Cop/Doc on the same person is reliable enough, because (a) scum can sandbag it if they have a majority in a room, and (b) it's not unreasonable to think scum has a Jailor or Framer or something. Basically, it's not that I want to leave it up to chance, I want to leave the scumteam's night actions up to chance instead of educating them, and I think the reward outweighs the risks. Buuuut I think that we stand to gain a ton of information by arranging to share what room we're in and where our ballots are going. We can do the person above us in the playerlist in the OP since Hiipfire already gave his to Ep+. We don't have any confirmed town or flips yet so trying to gain information that way is way more reliable than trying to move ballots onto town players. quote:I think that planning your target in the room outweighs doing it randomly both in making sure it's going somewhere useful and in checking the next day that it went where you thought it would. So while I vote for B, I can go either way. I'll be here all day - if people overwhelmingly think collaborating on the target is a better plan I'll go with it.
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Mar 8, 2015 21:16
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Hi. I replaced in for Asiina. I agree with her 100% except for the ragequitting. I think option C is the winner, but I guess B is ok too. It looks like tons of people haven't weighed in though, or don't have other thoughts. I'd love to hear from folks like Taste and Hal and others who aren't really saying much who they want to vote out today in addition to the setup spec stuff. I think in this sort of game with crazy rules, not being even willing to engage on setup spec is especially scummy, so I think Somber is king scum right now. ##vote Somber There are tons of people still not voting and the deadline is later tonight if not rescheduled. I think another scum play is not even being on the record with a vote when we hit deadline on a plurality vote. Wanted to pop in and give my thoughts, but off to pick up my kid/etc now, so I'll be back again closer to deadline if folks want to discuss anything.
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Mar 8, 2015 21:59
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vote finder added to op and player list has been updated KingB replaces Asiina Poison Mushroom replaces Taste
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Mar 8, 2015 22:01
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King Burgundy posted:I think in this sort of game with crazy rules, not being even willing to engage on setup spec is especially scummy, so I think Somber is king scum right now. Good enough for me. ##vote Somber
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Mar 8, 2015 22:06
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As for deadline extensions, I'll gauge the thread 'a response. Do you guys think we need an extension?
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Mar 8, 2015 22:20
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MildManeredManikin posted:As for deadline extensions, I'll gauge the thread 'a response. Do you guys think we need an extension? I think maybe an extra 12-24 hours would be nice to accomodate replacements. As the foremost voting target I am slightly biased in this situation, however.
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Mar 8, 2015 22:24
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MildManeredManikin posted:As for deadline extensions, I'll gauge the thread 'a response. Do you guys think we need an extension? I'd be in favor of a pushback, there are some people I want to feel like I've heard from and I don't want "weekend deadline" to be a factor. Plus I tend to post more on weekdays.
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Mar 8, 2015 22:25
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As a fellow replace-in, I just have to say that people getting this mad about this game is either hilarious (if that's the root cause), or kind of really  (if it was RL stress that triggered the reaction).My feeling on the matter is that A and D are both really stupid and harmful. The town is the uninformed majority, so keeping ourselves in the dark is a really bad idea. But at the same time, revealing too much would make certain powers incredibly loving useless. I don't think B is possible in a practical context. Either there'll be a general consensus on who to vote for, and thus the difference will be academic, or there won't be any consensus, and we'll all just be voting whoever. I could easily see an X-way tie happening in that scenario, which is all kinds of useless. So, put my vote about the votes (  ) in C.Outside of that, I've known Somber to be a lot of things. In mafia-likes and weird-mechanical games, Somber has always been very opinionated, and very fringe. Great example is Mexican Stand-Off Mafia, where he was heading the charge to try and solve the game. That he's not doing that at all here, or even commenting on why he's not (for example, being aware of his reputation) is very suspicious. In short, I agree with KingB that he's acting out of character and in a very scummy way. ##vote Somberbrero
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Mar 8, 2015 22:30
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MildManeredManikin posted:As for deadline extensions, I'll gauge the thread 'a response. Do you guys think we need an extension?
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Mar 8, 2015 22:30
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