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Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde
I also like Kaladin because he's another contrast to the current leads. Each of them having their own flavour keeps all the rest in check. Kaladin would be frustrating to read if Shallan wasn't around and equally, Kaladin keeps Shallan from becoming overbearing in her cheery nature.


Pwnstar posted:

Like the part where he and Shallan are having their adventure they overcome adversity and grow to like each other a bit and you are thinking ok cool, Kaladin is moving on yay. Then he sees that she is engaged to Adolin and he immediately regresses to thinking she's just another lighteyes who only cares about power and money etc etc.

Uhhh, i dont think that book ends on Kaladin keeping that opinion about the two of them? :raise:

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mewse
May 2, 2006

I didn't mind Kaladin's depression too much but I understand where it's coming from. It's very frustrating having a protagonist that chooses the wrong path repeatedly, because a person loses the investment they had in that character. I don't believe it's a fascist "mental illness doesn't exist" attitude.

"Fool makes wrong decisions repeatedly and causes bad things to happen" is a comedic device that doesn't fit a protagonist in a fantasy novel. Kaladin's situation isn't on that level but it's frustrating to read about how he gets that really sweet gig as Dalinar's bodyguard but isn't happy about it. That's where the angsty teen joke comes from, good things keep happening to him and he keeps complaining about it.

Grundulum
Feb 28, 2006
I'll take a possibly unpopular opinion and say that I read books for escapism. I don't want to read about depressing material because (a) I associate it with what I was forced to read as a student, and (b) I can go to D&D, read virtually any geographical or politics-related thread and get my fill of depression.

I read door stopper epic fantasy because I want to read about larger-than-life characters being more than I could be. Sadly, getting stuck in a depressive loop is altogether too mundane.

syphon
Jan 1, 2001
I suppose I'll echo "me too" in saying that i like Kaladin. He's fighting depression. As a former overly-emo teenager, I can relate to him so I empathize with him and enjoy reading about him.

LASER BEAM DREAM
Nov 3, 2005

Oh, what? So now I suppose you're just going to sit there and pout?
Wow, can't believe I'm the first to post this, but Sanderson just revised a major plot point at the end of WoR in upcoming paperbacks and future prints. Quote from his blog post.

Brandon Sanderson Facebook posted:


So, in Words of Radiance, I think the scene I worked on the longest both in my head and on the page was the final confrontation between Kaladin and Szeth.
There was something I wanted to do, and took a stab at it in the text, then backed off because I couldn’t make it work. It was important to me that Kaladin refuse to kill Szeth at the end. Kaladin is about protection, not vengeance, and once he realized that Szeth really just wanted to be killed, I wanted Kaladin to hesitate.
It didn’t end up working, and I moved on to a new version and submitted it. But this itched at me, and by the time the book was released, I felt I’d made the wrong choice for that scene. So I’ve taken this chance to roll it back to the previous idea, and written it in a new way, which I like much better.
The events are the same, except for that moment. Szeth is now killed by the storm instead of by Kaladin, which I think is more thematically appropriate.
The question this raises is about Szeth being stabbed by a Shardblade, then being resuscitated. I’m sad to lose this sequence, as it’s an important plot point for the series that dead Shardblades cannot heal the soul, while living ones can. I’m going to have to work this into a later book, though I think it’s something we can sacrifice here for the stronger scene of character for Kaladin and Szeth.


He also revised a bit of Elantris, but that seems to mostly be about making that locations events take place jive with a new better map that he made.

LASER BEAM DREAM fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Mar 7, 2015

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde
How interesting. Has something like this happened before with print-run books? Sure i've heard of Retconning before, but i dont remember any author outright tinkering with an already printed book because "It doesn't work."

NinjaDebugger
Apr 22, 2008


Thyrork posted:

How interesting. Has something like this happened before with print-run books? Sure i've heard of Retconning before, but i dont remember any author outright tinkering with an already printed book because "It doesn't work."

I wonder if people who have the ebooks will get a revised version pushed out.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde

NinjaDebugger posted:

I wonder if people who have the ebooks will get a revised version pushed out.

Same. Hopefully he'll also just put it up on his website with the prior version and a detailed thought process behind it. :unsmith:

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade

Thyrork posted:

How interesting. Has something like this happened before with print-run books? Sure i've heard of Retconning before, but i dont remember any author outright tinkering with an already printed book because "It doesn't work."

The Hobbit pre Lord of the Rings the gollum scene was massively different. It was explained in canon as Bilbo lying because of the ring.

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Thyrork posted:

How interesting. Has something like this happened before with print-run books? Sure i've heard of Retconning before, but i dont remember any author outright tinkering with an already printed book because "It doesn't work."

Stephen King went back and rewrote massive portions of the first book of his Dark Tower series. Of course, he did it like 30 years after it was originally published, and he did it explicitly to retcon a bunch of stuff and make the first book fit in better with where the series eventually ended up.

Victorkm
Nov 25, 2001

Thyrork posted:

How interesting. Has something like this happened before with print-run books? Sure i've heard of Retconning before, but i dont remember any author outright tinkering with an already printed book because "It doesn't work."

The second to last Midkemia book by Ray Feist had an entire story arc where one character was involved in something. Then suddenly in the next chapter it was his son instead who was involved in the same something and not him. They pushed out a correction so that the right character was involved in the right action, but not before I read the drat thing and got really confused.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Victorkm posted:

The second to last Midkemia book by Ray Feist had an entire story arc where one character was involved in something. Then suddenly in the next chapter it was his son instead who was involved in the same something and not him. They pushed out a correction so that the right character was involved in the right action, but not before I read the drat thing and got really confused.

There's also some changes in Prince of the Blood and a few other books, though I only have the original Riftwar books in paper and the rest are ebooks. Feist has a few inconsistencies in his series and he manages to play down a few, the Dread have several very clear adjustments along the way and Tal's baby daughter simply doesn't exist any more in the Chaoswar books unless we're to assume Ty simply lies about his mom not being able to have had any more kids, or that Ty has a normal name and his Orosini name is never used in the later books.

e: Maybe it's balanced out by a character in the Chaoswar books being the son of Gorath, whom I' am certain mentions on more than one occasion that all of his sons are dead as a result of the attack on Amengar and Sethanon. If the mixup you're referring to involves that character I can only imagine how utterly confusing that had to be before it was corrected.

Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Mar 7, 2015

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

Thyrork posted:

How interesting. Has something like this happened before with print-run books? Sure i've heard of Retconning before, but i dont remember any author outright tinkering with an already printed book because "It doesn't work."

Sure. Charles Dickens did it with his serial novels once they were published as single book (Pip remained very clearly single originally in Great Expectations for example). Often to change things the audience didn't like. Which why all the" artistic integrity is now dead"-poo poo during the Mass Effect 3 ending change annoyed me to no end. Changing stuff because the original didn't work or wasn't liked by the audience happens all the time and for centuries.

Decius fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Mar 7, 2015

amuayse
Jul 20, 2013

by exmarx
What's the most advanced tech in a Sanderson book?

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

amuayse posted:

What's the most advanced tech in a Sanderson book?

Spaceships from Sixth of the Dusk, probably.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

Tunicate posted:

Spaceships from Sixth of the Dusk, probably.

From book probably but he had that short story about the guy not living up to his older brothers military genius.

Victorkm
Nov 25, 2001

Evil Fluffy posted:

There's also some changes in Prince of the Blood and a few other books, though I only have the original Riftwar books in paper and the rest are ebooks. Feist has a few inconsistencies in his series and he manages to play down a few, the Dread have several very clear adjustments along the way and Tal's baby daughter simply doesn't exist any more in the Chaoswar books unless we're to assume Ty simply lies about his mom not being able to have had any more kids, or that Ty has a normal name and his Orosini name is never used in the later books.

e: Maybe it's balanced out by a character in the Chaoswar books being the son of Gorath, whom I' am certain mentions on more than one occasion that all of his sons are dead as a result of the attack on Amengar and Sethanon. If the mixup you're referring to involves that character I can only imagine how utterly confusing that had to be before it was corrected.

Nah, it was Pug and Magnus. In the first half of that particular storyline Pug was hanging out with some Paladin chick from a religious order and IIRC someone else and they were investigating some Pandathian remnants which were for some reason in the middle of Krondor in a fortress and who were waiting for Pug to show up and find this item which ended up trapping him. Then in the next chapter Pug shows up to try to save Magnus from the trap he was in.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Hughlander posted:

From book probably but he had that short story about the guy not living up to his older brothers military genius.

Firstborn, and yes, easily his most advanced tech, though not (to the best of my knowledge) Cosmere.

Also, excellent, and Sanderson should write more short fiction and more scifi.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Victorkm posted:

Nah, it was Pug and Magnus. In the first half of that particular storyline Pug was hanging out with some Paladin chick from a religious order and IIRC someone else and they were investigating some Pandathian remnants which were for some reason in the middle of Krondor in a fortress and who were waiting for Pug to show up and find this item which ended up trapping him. Then in the next chapter Pug shows up to try to save Magnus from the trap he was in.

Sounds like the Isle of Serpents stuff. Even reading the ebook with that fixed it still was kinda :what:

By the end of the Riftwar books I found myself being more interested in the stuff Dasher, Hal, and Caleb's boys were doing than the enclave and its fairly over the top stuff.

syphon
Jan 1, 2001
Feist was solidly my favorite author as a teenager, so I've spent a bit of time thinking about this.

He does best when he keeps it small. I think the early Riftwar books (focusing on Pug or Jimmy or Arutha) were good, then a couple of the Serpentwar (focusing on Erik and Roo), then the one that focuses on Tal was good too. It's when he goes nuts delving into the various levels of hell and destroying worlds by slinging moons at them that it gets pretty unbearable. He tends to do what I call a "reverse Deus Ex Macchina". Every bad-guy is the biggest, most powerful being in the known universe. This means that subsequent books have to invent an even bigger and badder entity in order to top it.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
The Kelewan books were my favorites actually.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Torrannor posted:

The Kelewan books were my favorites actually.

Servant of the Empire is the only series I haven't read because you get it in ebook form anywhere (if you're in the US) short of :filez: apparently. The every-growing thing with the big baddie was the downside to the Riftwar stuff(also the back and forth on Valheru), but yeah Serpentwar focus on Erik and Roo was solid stuff.

e: Riftwar basically suffers from DBZ syndrome.

Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Mar 10, 2015

syphon
Jan 1, 2001
It's one of his best, IMHO. It upholds the "smaller in scope is better" principal, but the co-author (Janny Wurts) really adds something to it as well. I really enjoyed it.

mossyfisk
Nov 8, 2010

FF0000

Torrannor posted:

The Kelewan books were my favorites actually.

That's likely because his wife is a significantly better writer.

It does get a bit "Why is this fantasy novel just the Meiji Restoration" though.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.

syphon posted:

It's one of his best, IMHO. It upholds the "smaller in scope is better" principal, but the co-author (Janny Wurts) really adds something to it as well. I really enjoyed it.

This. I'm a big fan of the collective pew pew pew adventures of Pug and Co., but the Tsurani trilogy is my favorite of his works.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

Do you know anything about...
witches?



Buglord
I didn't see this mentioned yet - Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell is now available as a stand-alone e-book, it's $3 in the kindle store.

This Post Sucks
Dec 27, 2004

It Gave Me Splinters!
:sigh: I just wish they'd go ahead an publish the UK Covers for Sanderson books in the US. I hate spending the extra to import them over.

I just saw the covers for Firefight and it's beautiful.

Mars4523
Feb 17, 2014

This Post Sucks posted:

:sigh: I just wish they'd go ahead an publish the UK Covers for Sanderson books in the US. I hate spending the extra to import them over.

I just saw the covers for Firefight and it's beautiful.
Yeah, the US cover by comparison is horrible.

amuayse
Jul 20, 2013

by exmarx
I've gotten to the part in the Way of Kings where Jasnah kills the muggers. I don't know why, but the whole scene seemed to be something out of a greentext story on /k/ rather than something that was supposed to be serious. I almost expecting her to start waving her Soulcaster in the local guards' faces and start shouting "AM I BEING DETAINED!?". Does Jasnah become more interesting as the story goes along because she lost a lot of mystery after she took on Shallan as her ward.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





amuayse posted:

I've gotten to the part in the Way of Kings where Jasnah kills the muggers. I don't know why, but the whole scene seemed to be something out of a greentext story on /k/ rather than something that was supposed to be serious. I almost expecting her to start waving her Soulcaster in the local guards' faces and start shouting "AM I BEING DETAINED!?". Does Jasnah become more interesting as the story goes along because she lost a lot of mystery after she took on Shallan as her ward.

Jasnah is absolutely unsufferably smug and entitled most of the time. You rarely see a break in that facade.

Dravs
Mar 8, 2011

You've done well, kiddo.
Jasnah is basically the original smug atheist. I just imagine her walking everywhere saying "I am euphoric" over and over again.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde

amuayse posted:

I've gotten to the part in the Way of Kings where Jasnah kills the muggers. I don't know why, but the whole scene seemed to be something out of a greentext story on /k/ rather than something that was supposed to be serious. I almost expecting her to start waving her Soulcaster in the local guards' faces and start shouting "AM I BEING DETAINED!?". Does Jasnah become more interesting as the story goes along because she lost a lot of mystery after she took on Shallan as her ward.

Jasnah's the classic smug noble, married to her cause. I feel she does get more interesting as it goes on and more is shown of her past and present.

Stormlight Archives doesn't really have anyone whos just likeable, each and every character is critically flawed in certain ways. Its an important detail, and not in some whimsy "writers advice, real characters are flawed" way either.

Yngwie Mangosteen
Aug 23, 2007

Thyrork posted:

Stormlight Archives doesn't really have anyone whos just likeable

Rock and Lopen. :colbert:

Odette
Mar 19, 2011

Dravs posted:

Jasnah is basically the original smug atheist. I just imagine her walking everywhere saying "I am euphoric" over and over again.

But she's justified in behaving like that, based on what's been revealed so far. Can't wait for more books.

Grundulum
Feb 28, 2006

Captain Monkey posted:

Rock and Lopen. :colbert:

This (wo?)man gets it.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde

Captain Monkey posted:

Rock and Lopen. :colbert:

Ah... Hmmm.

:raise:

You know, you got me there.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

AMA is live!

http://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
I made up new numbers, but here are some very interesting quotes from that AMA. Beware of spoilers, I guess:

quote:

1. Can an Awakened form a nahel bond with a spren on Roshar?

2. Are spren bound to Roshar or can they travel to other worlds? Could they do so if they were bound to someone that traveled to other worlds?

3. Are the Unmade Splinters of Odium?

4. Is the Well of Ascension Preservation’s Perpendicularity? Or at least related to it (i.e. one is in the Physical Realm but the other is in the Cognitive but are still essentially different aspects of the same “thing”)?

Brandon Sanderson posted:

1. Depends on the spren!

2.RAFO. Excellent question, though.

3. Yes. Good guess.

4. You're on the right track.

I'm off to bed, will take a stab at interpreting these tomorrow.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Looks like he'll keep answering questions for a while, so if anyone wants to get in some :spergin:, now's the time.

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Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011
I have not been paying attention to all the cosmere theorizing lately - what in the world is a Perpendicularity?

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