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Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer

You are somehow becoming more incorrect.

Well I guess PMom could be scum with Mac, so at best you are equal levels of incorrect.

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Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer
Let me ask you a question, Murmur Twin. Thank you.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being totally townie and 10 being super scummy (neither of these ratings indicate 'confirmed'. Those would be 0 and 11, respectively), where would you rank Little Mac?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

jon joe posted:

You are somehow becoming more incorrect.

Well I guess PMom could be scum with Mac, so at best you are equal levels of incorrect.

I know you have a good grasp on game design* and I think you watched the Genius, critique this thought process:

Murmur Twin posted:

It's a wild goose chase. Think about it - the order of operations goes:

1 - masondocs or thread discuss strategy THEN
2 - scum discuss strategy THEN
3 - votes go in THEN
4 - scum decide a NK target

If you assume 4 scum in a 15 player game working together they can absolutely manipulate the night actions in a way that town loses in a way that can't be figured out if they cover for each other. They make all of their decisions with perfect information, as long as town gives it to them. The idea that we can solve the game using Ballot Logic instead of scumhunting is a total red herring.

Genius fans - ever see the Scamming Horse Race episode from season 1? In a game where people needed to solve a logic puzzle with imperfect information, one lie tanked them.

*(I was going to link Wizard Battle here but your avatar changed, boooo)

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

jon joe posted:

Let me ask you a question, Murmur Twin. Thank you.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being totally townie and 10 being super scummy (neither of these ratings indicate 'confirmed'. Those would be 0 and 11, respectively), where would you rank Little Mac?

I'll answer in a more accurate way - everyone in the game, ranked in order from most town to most scum. I'll include my thoughts on people from memory:

MOST TOWN

me - given that no one has made a case against me yet I feel like people agree with this, just sayin'

WM - if you believe I'm town, you pretty much have to believe my cop result isn't a lie. Maybe he's a godfather, but I think Ernie is a more likely one.

Meinberg - from masonchat, I have a good vibe there

Mac - everyone I think is scum is trying to shift to him

Ep+ and Hal - kind of neutral, but I push them to town based on how I feel about the others

-----------MENDOZA LINE-------------

PMom - town pmom would have been all over this game, I think

JJ - opinions don't make sense (the Ernie is town thing, thinking Mac is scum for voting WM and then keeping his vote there after Mac says he missed the cop claim)

Ernie and Byers - as cased earlier

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Oh right, I say the godfather thing because Byers, on multiple occasions, tried to get us to cop him instead of lunch him.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Murmur Twin posted:

Oh right, I say the godfather thing because Byers, on multiple occasions, tried to get us to cop him instead of lunch him.

Him = Ernie. :downs:

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

hmmmm

##vote mmt

as the game has played out i don't think it's possible to think both byers and i are scum

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer

Could you do me a favor, and please rank with a number for mac only? Thank you. In exchange, here is the favor you asked of me.

Murmur Twin posted:

I know you have a good grasp on game design* and I think you watched the Genius, critique this thought process:


*(I was going to link Wizard Battle here but your avatar changed, boooo)

Seems solid to me.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

oh it's 35 minutes to deadline, do we even have enough for anyone not byers?

who all are here?

please read mmt's posts and tell me she's not casing people individually in vacuums and then connecting them based on silly reasoning.

she even calls being open scummy which is ridiculous, because it has nothing to do with alignment.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

Meinberg posted:

I can definitely see the logic to this.

##vote Byers

worst bandwagon vote ever

Murmur Twin posted:

I think Ernie and Byers, at least, are scumbros who pushed an agenda designed to make it so that scum would always have the upper hand.

##vote Byers

this is not even a case

wall monitor posted:

Trying to put together a more complete read on Byers... but not really sure I should bother at this point. I'm not going to convince anyone who can't already see it.

##vote Byers

you're confirmed town, is this really the most you can say?

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

jj why would mmt lead a charge against byers if she thinks there are 4 scum?

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011

inspired by but legally distinct from CATS (2019)

Ernie. posted:

as the game has played out i don't think it's possible to think both byers and i are scum

Are you trolling me, Ernie?

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

Meinberg posted:

Are you trolling me, Ernie?

mein do you think we've spent the whole game faking passing ballots back and forth and slap-fighting unnecessarily as scum?

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4

Ernie. posted:

mein do you think we've spent the whole game faking passing ballots back and forth and slap-fighting unnecessarily as scum?

It's not unfeasible.

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer

Ernie. posted:

jj why would mmt lead a charge against byers if she thinks there are 4 scum?

I don't understand the purpose of the question.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011

inspired by but legally distinct from CATS (2019)

Ernie. posted:

mein do you think we've spent the whole game faking passing ballots back and forth and slap-fighting unnecessarily as scum?

I mean, that's what I'd do if I was scum.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

jon joe posted:

I don't understand the purpose of the question.

why take the risk today of losing the game when we can get one more investigation off?

Meinberg posted:

I mean, that's what I'd do if I was scum.

and how do we make sure all the ballots are accounted for and no one catches us cheating the system?

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

I have now read everything and I declare that we should all vote Pmom, definite badguy

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

Hal Incandenza posted:

I have now read everything and I declare that we should all vote Pmom, definite badguy

i'd also do pmom

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

I will hammer byers though if it comes to that

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4
Ballot in, ##vote byers, sorry if this loses the game but I remain unconvinced otherwise

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007

Ernie. posted:

you're confirmed town, is this really the most you can say?

The sum total of my thoughts:

  • People who have been calling for more information are generally going to be scum since they can get more utility out of the information than town can. (Murmur stated this more eloquently.)
  • Byers is getting on me about my confirmed towniness being fake, which doesn't make sense to me personally and more to the point a false townclaim on me violates occam's razor
  • I've grown to dislike byers personally and if we're in a losing situation anyway I'd rather vote him out of spite

Anything more I could say is just more :words: to this effect.

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007

oh hey MMM got a new name

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

##vote Pmom it's never too late

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer

Ernie. posted:

why take the risk today of losing the game when we can get one more investigation off?


and how do we make sure all the ballots are accounted for and no one catches us cheating the system?

Her reasoning as to why she wants to vote is fine. Whatever. As long as the vote target is Byers though, town is going to lose (unless he's done a bang-up job of playing town!)

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer

Hal Incandenza posted:

##vote Pmom it's never too late

gently caress it, I'd prefer it to byers

##vote Pmom

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

jon joe posted:

Her reasoning as to why she wants to vote is fine. Whatever. As long as the vote target is Byers though, town is going to lose (unless he's done a bang-up job of playing town!)

scumslip!!!!!!

(im kidding)

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

oh yess

##vote pmom

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Nevermind, Hal is scum, not PMom.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Murmur Twin posted:

Nevermind, Hal is scum, not PMom.

Convince me

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007

I'm not going to change my vote, sorry. I'm confident about Byers.

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4
I love that you're all swerving to PMom without any case or reasoning

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

I will go to byers if we have enough people then

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007

Nearly midnight here goes

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

##vote Byers

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

##vote byers

sorry if im wrong thread

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer
gee gee *throws hat on the ground angrily*

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer
That the scum have not already begun their gloating makes me believe that, perhaps the one small mercy of the world is, I'm wrong.

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

Whoops forgot the deadline. Byers was vanilla town, I'll resolve the night in a sec.

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Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

Actually I'll resolve in the morning, sorry folks.

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