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RBA Starblade posted:Getting shot by someone twice your view distance away comes pretty close to that. In one section of Richter's prison breakout, the final room you'll enter - upper-right hand corner on Normal - has an easily visible guard smacking a nightstick in his hand. So you barge in, get ready to shoot, and then get blown away by another guard lying prone inside a potted plant so the colors blend together. Even the crosshair is almost invisible if you lock on to him. Fell for that poo poo three times because by the time I'd waded through all the other guards I was too hepped up to remember the trap.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:45
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Oxxidation posted:In one section of Richter's prison breakout, the final room you'll enter - upper-right hand corner on Normal - has an easily visible guard smacking a nightstick in his hand. So you barge in, get ready to shoot, and then get blown away by another guard lying prone inside a potted plant so the colors blend together. Even the crosshair is almost invisible if you lock on to him. I don't even remember this because I got through the final room in one try. The only level of Richter I had issue with was the one before it, and that's only because I suck at timing when to smack the charging maniacs.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:47
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Oxxidation posted:In one section of Richter's prison breakout, the final room you'll enter - upper-right hand corner on Normal - has an easily visible guard smacking a nightstick in his hand. So you barge in, get ready to shoot, and then get blown away by another guard lying prone inside a potted plant so the colors blend together. Even the crosshair is almost invisible if you lock on to him. Just git gud fagot 
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Mar 13, 2015 18:47
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Me: game had its good moments but boy did a lot of it suck, lotsa windows and off screen men Incomprehensible cocktail of antianxiety meds and social awkwardness: YOURE BAD AT GAME!!?? BITCH!! PUZZLE GAME!!!!!!! me: *looks at s ranked death wish and dead ahead* drat i just got owned hard *cries pathetically back to baby difficulty miami 1*
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Mar 13, 2015 18:48
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TheJoker138 posted:Because it is one. Consider this: it'sn't.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:48
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Oxxidation posted:In one section of Richter's prison breakout, the final room you'll enter - upper-right hand corner on Normal - has an easily visible guard smacking a nightstick in his hand. So you barge in, get ready to shoot, and then get blown away by another guard lying prone inside a potted plant so the colors blend together. Even the crosshair is almost invisible if you lock on to him. Only time i couldnt tell my crosshair apart from the stage was in a soldier mission cause of the brighter palette which i ended up s ranking anyway. It was annoying but not nearly as prevalent as you believe, i think.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:51
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ArfJason posted:Consider this: it'sn't. It is. Each map is a puzzle and each one has a solution. That solution is "how do I murder these guys in a way that I myself do not get murdered." The first one is also a puzzle game, but it's slightly more open ended in the paths you can take, but even in it there are clear optimal paths. Even the people who didn't like this game seem to be in agreement on this, and you're the only one going "nuh-uh!" so perhaps it is you who is the "dumb human being"?
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Mar 13, 2015 18:52
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TheJoker138 posted:It is. Each map is a puzzle and each one has a solution. And that solution is a door.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:53
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RBA Starblade posted:You have to admit it's pretty funny that when you were asked to record it or tell us what you were doing instead you answered you were also total poo poo and did the same thing the rest of us did and were just guessing the good players did it differently. Actually I know it's possible to make those high point combos because I've pulled them off in pieces the odd time. The trouble is that I'm unable to pull off all the combos consecutively on any given floor because they're so much larger than the first game. So instead I just use the common cop out techniques once I'm done trying to do it gracefully so that I can just progress. Red Mundus posted:Fooled me! Because making extensive instructionals requires the same effort as telling someone on the internet they are bad at a game. Goons better than me at this game have already posted some cool combo videos in the thread, and there's probably more on youtube if you look. When was the last time a game like this made so many people upset? It's amazing. Jehde fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 18:53
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Red Mundus posted:And that solution is a door. That's not true. Sometimes it's a corner.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:54
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A lot of people think it feels like a puzzle game because a lot of the jerks you have to kill require keys to unlock them. Fatties need guns to unlock, etc. Also, there are optimal lines to help keep your combo up if you're going for a higher grade. Outside of shooting for that high grade, you can play it how you want and it ceases to be a puzzle. 
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Mar 13, 2015 18:54
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TheJoker138 posted:It is. Each map is a puzzle and each one has a solution. That solution is "how do I murder these guys in a way that I myself do not get murdered." The first one is also a puzzle game, but it's slightly more open ended in the paths you can take, but even in it there are clear optimal paths. Even the people who didn't like this game seem to be in agreement on this, and you're the only one going "nuh-uh!" so perhaps it is you who is the "dumb human being"? There are many ways to finish the stages in hotline miami 2, barring some entry into a stage or floor. There is no puzzle just going this guy is in this pattern, if i shoot im within hearing range, i can bait this one. Just because you plan a bit doesnt make it a puzzle, just like how planning how to attack a base in crysis 1 isnt
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Mar 13, 2015 18:55
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Actually Hotline Miami 2 is a top-down FPS.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:56
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ArfJason posted:There are many ways to finish the stages in hotline miami 2, barring some entry into a stage or floor. There is no puzzle just going this guy is in this pattern, if i shoot im within hearing range, i can bait this one. Just because you plan a bit doesnt make it a puzzle, just like how planning how to attack a base in crysis 1 isnt The distinction I think you're missing is that a lot of people didn't do any of this planning in the first one, at least consciously, and now that they're being forced to with 2 it's frustrating the poo poo out of them because it's not how they wanted or expected to play it. Looking at it like a puzzle game and not a shooter is the easiest way to describe how you have to look at each floor. Red Mundus posted:Actually Hotline Miami 2 is a top-down FPS. Wasn't there a review of something a while back, or maybe just someone on the forums, who insisted on calling games like Gears of War "third person FPS games" or something? And refused to stop even when everyone told them that made no sense.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:57
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RBA Starblade posted:The bar part is the first level with Richter right? That's one of the good ones. This is a good example, because the very next level (17?) is some loving hilariously bad design. You can't see anything. It's black on black shadows. And it's not the first level that uses this innovative mechanic! Stronghold was another level with legit bad design. Your horizontal shift-look is fine, but vertical shift-look only nudges the screen up an inch or two. And the map is oriented such that you need to advance upward into a no-look-zone. Why? I made it to Jake's third floor, last guy, and then got taken out by the door boss. I feel like there's a great sequel buried here, except it's buried under a lot of dumb poo poo they should have caught in beta. I cannot believe any outside party played an "adjust your monitor" blackout level and left encouraging feedback.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:59
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TheJoker138 posted:The distinction I think you're missing is that a lot of people didn't do any of this planning in the first one, at least consciously, and now that they're being forced to with 2 it's frustrating the poo poo out of them because it's not how they wanted or expected to play it. Looking at it like a puzzle game and not a shooter is the easiest way to describe how you have to look at each floor. It's a twitch action game with prohibitive level design. In puzzle games, you do not fail a puzzle half a dozen times because a random Tetris block decides to whiz out of the drop window and murder your score counter.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:59
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I just wish there wasn't quite so much glass. The game definitely seems like it assumes you've already played HM1.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:00
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moths posted:This is a good example, because the very next level (17?) is some loving hilariously bad design. You can't see anything. It's black on black shadows. And it's not the first level that uses this innovative mechanic! If your monitor is correctly calibrated you wouldn't need to adjust it in those levels.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:00
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Actually, tetris is an arcade game, hitler died in argentina and life is meaningless.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:04
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moths posted:This is a good example, because the very next level (17?) is some loving hilariously bad design. You can't see anything. It's black on black shadows. And it's not the first level that uses this innovative mechanic! I actually didn't have a problem seeing anything in that level but the sewers were real lovely for it. I killed the dog early on though so it wasn't a problem. I'm not sure I can be bothered to muster up the effort to restart that level of Jake's until the game either doesn't have the thugs bug out on a door or I win. Real discouraging having that happen to the very first guy I try to kill. I'm still enjoying the game, I actually like the story telling and the art and music is as great as ever, and I even like the different character gimmicks, but the level design is trash and things like that door bug just sap all the fun out. e: I'm six hours in and at level 20 too. It's shorter and all but I'm pretty sure I beat the first HLM in RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 19:04
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The whole "didn't like it? GET GOOD!" thing is so frustrating because it really sums up how the game design went wrong. It's really exactly like those level packs made by people who are golden gods at the game. I suck at Hotline Miami. I am loving terrible. It's embarassing. I've hammered the R key like a motherfucker while my character got splattered all over the screen. I enjoyed sucking at the first game a whole lot more than I enjoyed sucking at the second game, because the second game feels very closed-ended. The windows and the guns aren't really that fun for someone like me, because it means if I gently caress up and basically any enemy sees me, I'm dead. I dont have a way to try to react and salvage it by throwing my weapon at a charging enemy then going all American History X on him while he's down, the rear end in a top hat just sees me through the back of his head and shoots me nearly instantly. The level design just doesn't give you anything fun to do if you aren't really loving good at the game, and that's lovely. I wouldn't have a problem if it was in hard mode, but let me enjoy the game I paid fifteen bucks for.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:06
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The idea that any complaints mean you're just bad at the game or playing it wrong is kinda silly. I've been trying to get the all A+ achievement and outside of a few levels you do have to rely on dumb stuff like constantly baiting enemies, exploiting AI etc. Compare that to an A+ in the first game where level layouts allow you to blitz through the levels mostly using melee in one huge stylish, really satisfying combo. Like I think there really is some legitimately poor game design with HLM2, the people comparing it to a bad romhack or a fan game are 100% right Maybe I should just download the soundtrack and play it over the first game until the level editor comes out
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Mar 13, 2015 19:07
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ArfJason posted:life is meaningless. I know.  Hotline 2 is still fun, it's just not as fun. Which is disappointing. Hard mode is kicking my rear end but being able to play as Alex/Ash in any of the Fan levels makes it all worth it. I'm doing it solely for them.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:08
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Ugly In The Morning posted:The whole "didn't like it? GET GOOD!" thing is so frustrating because it really sums up how the game design went wrong. It's really exactly like those level packs made by people who are golden gods at the game. I suck at Hotline Miami. I am loving terrible. It's embarassing. I've hammered the R key like a motherfucker while my character got splattered all over the screen. This post is too good for this thread, you forgot to say how objectively bad the game is. Seriosuly though, you might get your $15 out of the game once the level editor releases. Hopefully some creative levels will show up from that.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:11
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TheJoker138 posted:If your monitor is correctly calibrated you wouldn't need to adjust it in those levels. I think you mean "correctly calibrated for HLM2" because this is the only thing I've had that problem with. E: Also loving LOL at the "get gud" guy not actually being good. Never change, goons.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:11
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Studio posted:Hi I beat it on hard mode. The normal gameplay is worse and while there are great moments, it's still a worse experience due to many of the reasons people have mentioned before (Guns are much more required, lots of baiting, plays more like a puzzle game, etc.) I disagree. If you just beated the game on Hard go replay it in Normal and realize you can pretty much breeze through all the levels in a fast paced motion, coupled with a fantastic soundtrack the game becomes a very delicious experience. turboraton fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 19:14
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As I slowly inch my way through hard mode, the romhack aspects of the game are really becoming apparent. The first floor of Jake's first stage is clear on normal, but on Hard they added a single guy with a pistol at the far end of the level.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:15
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Oxxidation posted:It's a twitch action game with prohibitive level design. In puzzle games, you do not fail a puzzle half a dozen times because a random Tetris block decides to whiz out of the drop window and murder your score counter. Gods Will Be Watching did that, and they got panned up the rear end for it.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:17
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I honestly feel the first Richter levels are the best in the game. They're short, compact, and if you're fast enough on your fingers you can get some insane combos (You can keep a combo in between floor transitions, I managed to pull a 30-combo on the bar stage).
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Mar 13, 2015 19:20
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I also think I'm way too dumb for this thread because I do not understand the 'randomness' complain. In this gif http://gfycat.com/JadedBothHyrax I knew exactly what I was supposed to do and did it. I did exactly the same path without change for the next two runs and managed to pull a full combo on the level. Could someone please point the 'randomness' part of the game? Unless we are talking about the bugs and/or the loving doors. Those sure are random.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:21
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Discendo Vox posted:As I slowly inch my way through hard mode, the romhack aspects of the game are really becoming apparent. The first floor of Jake's first stage is clear on normal, but on Hard they added a single guy with a pistol at the far end of the level. Hahahaha. The assholes.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:21
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Oxxidation posted:There is literally no other way to beat the stages without constant AI exploits (baiting, corner-ganking) while never moving more than a single step in the wrong direction because of all the glass. That's why people are complaining about those elements, because they restrict gameplay for a series that had, previously, used frenetic freeform mayhem as its strongest selling point. It is not because they are bad at video games. It is because this particular video game is designed badly. This is not a difficult distinction to make. The lack of understanding is entirely on you. The thing about glass is that it works both ways. They can shoot you without you being able to see them but get this, you can also shoot them without being able to see them. There were sections where I'd kill the guys closest to me quietly at the start of a floor, then before I got to the Big Bullshit Window Part I'd get an assault rifle or shotgun prepared and then just let it rip across the map to where I knew the offscreen guys were. It's always satisfying to see the multiplier ding when you can't even see a dude but you know he's there. But corner-ganking is always an option, I just don't consider it an "exploit". It feels like something a protagonist in an action movie would do if outnumbered, fake "running away" around a corner while just waiting to ambush a group of guys at once. The only thing I consider particularly exploit-y is using doors to continually down a big group of guys, but the only time I really take advantage of that is when I just get fed up with a map and want it over.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:22
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turboraton posted:I also think I'm way too dumb for this thread because I do not understand the 'randomness' complain. In this gif http://gfycat.com/JadedBothHyrax I knew exactly what I was supposed to do and did it. I did exactly the same path without change for the next two runs and managed to pull a full combo on the level. Could someone please point the 'randomness' part of the game? You also had the flamethrower. Every Hawaii level is a cakewalk with that.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:23
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Erata posted:A lot of people think it feels like a puzzle game because a lot of the jerks you have to kill require keys to unlock them. Fatties need guns to unlock, etc. This is how I play it and how I'm playing it. I don't see any issue with it. This is basically how I played through HL1 and so far I've averaged high C and low B grades with the odd A grade here and there, but ultimately I'm enjoying the game.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:24
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Broken Cog posted:You also had the flamethrower. Every Hawaii level is a cakewalk with that. Then have my dumb combo video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-SsRWqTNQw I knew exactly where to fire each time and I didn't get the full combo because I missed baiting one guy at the start of the level.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:25
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turboraton posted:Then have my dumb combo video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-SsRWqTNQw That's actually a pretty good level to demonstrate the randomness with, because one of the assault rifle guys near the top can decide to patrol into your line of sight and snipe you from offscreen. I should know, because that's basically the path I took as well when trying to A+ that level. Try enough times, though, and you'll get lucky. I mean, this happened in HM1 as well, so I'm not very bothered by it myself, but trying to say this game isn't affected by randomness is dumb.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:27
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That's pretty sick. Also Mark is a lot of fun. 
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Mar 13, 2015 19:29
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Broken Cog posted:That's actually a pretty good level to demonstrate the randomness with, because one of the assault rifle guys near the top can decide to patrol into your line of sight and snipe you from offscreen. I should know, because that's basically the path I took as well when trying to A+ that level. Try enough times, though, and you'll get lucky. Being 100% Honest that never happened to me. The only reason I died on that floor because I was recording the full combo and when I missed ONE fucker I was like: "close enough". I agree that this happened as well on HM1 so I count it as a feature or something I should work around.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:30
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King Vidiot posted:The thing about glass is that it works both ways. They can shoot you without you being able to see them but get this, you can also shoot them without being able to see them. There were sections where I'd kill the guys closest to me quietly at the start of a floor, then before I got to the Big Bullshit Window Part I'd get an assault rifle or shotgun prepared and then just let it rip across the map to where I knew the offscreen guys were. It's always satisfying to see the multiplier ding when you can't even see a dude but you know he's there. I don't see this as a good thing though. The last Sons mission had me doing this and it just felt cheap. Clearing out the right hand side of the map and pray/spraying the left side to hopefully kill all the dogs/fatdude I've got no control over that and I can't imagine it being a big part of the design brief either.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:32
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moths posted:I think you mean "correctly calibrated for HLM2" because this is the only thing I've had that problem with. I ran the THX calibration tool the day I got this monitor and have had no issues in any games, including HM2. During film school I also found that most people have their monitors calibrated to be way too dark in general, to the point where during editing I would make sure to watch whatever cut of a film I was on on other peoples monitors to make sure poo poo was actually visible on them.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:32
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