|
People may or may not be good, but either way the vast majority don't practice LNT.
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 21:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:14 |
|
|
Any decent pants out there for hiking, bought some a while back and seems it's time to replace? Don't like convertible or cargo, just straight pants with good mobility.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 21:46
|
|
|
What's LNT? Maybe it's just do to the small lovely parks around here, but by tracking footprints in mud/snow, I have noticed that I am often the only person to visit a particular park in a given week. I have often though of weird schemes to hide beers along trails and I am pretty sure with even the slightest bit of subterfuge, no one will find my booze.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 21:50
|
|
|
African AIDS cum posted:That's why they built solar toilets on Mt Whitney, then later some Rangers imo stupidly burnt them down, now there is poo poo everywhere again or people carting their poo poo with them in a plastic bag. Progress? Not in my book. They were not burnt down, they were removed because it became too much of a cost issue to fly the waste off the peak. There are plenty of reasons for all of the regulations in parks. The danger if you get a PCT permit and hike the JMT instead is that if you get caught on the wrong trail, you will be fined heavily. bunnielab posted:What's LNT? Leave No Trace.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:12
|
|
|
bunnielab posted:I have often though of weird schemes to hide beers along trails and I am pretty sure with even the slightest bit of subterfuge, no one will find my booze.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:17
|
|
|
What's an MTB and do people really carry their poop out with them?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:22
|
|
|
bunnielab posted:What's an MTB and do people really carry their poop out with them? Thanks for the suggestions for stuff in/out of NY. There's more than I thought! And that Iceland bit is a perfectly viable option!
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:27
|
|
|
Around here there is a permit system for an area called the Enchantments - which is a cool place. That being said there are hundreds of places nearly as cool or perhaps cooler that don't require permits. Check those places out instead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:33
|
|
|
Hah, holy poo poo, so the old boyscout "walk 100 yards off the trail and bury it" isn't a thing anymore? That is just so lame and depressing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:33
|
|
|
bunnielab posted:Hah, holy poo poo, so the old boyscout "walk 100 yards off the trail and bury it" isn't a thing anymore? Well, it doesn't work so great if you haven't got any soil to decompose in.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:36
|
|
|
JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:Any pooping above treeline (or generally without soil), and in particular while mountaineering/climbing, should be packed out. Various other trails have this requirement, including some in national parks. Except for Whitney I've never seen a place that asks you to carry out your poop, just toilet paper. Bury properly and it turns into soil after a month or so. Without the wag bag requirement, guitar lake and trail camp smelled like a sewer though because of heavy use e: above treeline doesn't mean there's no soil or that you can't properly bury waste. If we're talking places where it's just scree and talus though then yeah I can see packing it out Levitate fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Mar 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:37
|
|
|
African AIDS cum posted:I think the permit system is an unnecessary, byzantine system that keeps many from enjoying the beautiful nature that God endowed us with. I'm with you dude. gently caress the pearl clutching dipshits that somehow make hike planning into a false ethical problem. The only unethical thing w/r/t hiking is any government or agency limiting access to public land. Particularly our wonderful national parks and trails. It's not against the law, your gaming the system. People who are mad at others for gaming the system are either too stupid to do it themselves or too stupid to even think gaming the system is ok in the first place. Either way stupidity is the one common denominator.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:40
|
|
|
African AIDS cum posted:I think the permit system is an unnecessary, byzantine system that keeps many from enjoying the beautiful nature that God endowed us with. Yosemite sees 4 million people a year, Rocky Mountain 3 million, Smoky Mountains 10 million. There are permit and limiting systems in so many facets of life that it shouldn't be a difficult thing to understand why they are important. Parking lots, bars, airplanes, cruise ships, restaurants, concerts, movie theaters, etc all have limitations to ensure that guests have a safe and enjoyable experience. Without limitations you would stand in a crowded bar and wait forever to get a drink. You would get terrible service at a restaurant. You wouldn't be able to find a parking spot on your street. On top of creating an enjoyable and safe experience for guests, they also help to protect the environment from overuse and abuse. Every single person has an effect on their environment and nature can sustain itself up to a point. If you overcrowd the parks, it can degrade the parks past the point of sustainability and then you start to lose the reasons people were going there in the first place. Permits also generate income. A lot of people who work at parks are retirees and volunteers. Revenue is needed for trail crews, rangers, keeping facilities clean, bridges repaired, etc. People don't flock to wildlife jobs for the paycheck and rockstar lifestyle. Rangers and staff get paid peanuts. Then there's solitude. I (and assumably most people) don't go out into the backcountry to feel like sleeping in a hostel or dorm room. Without permits it would be impossible to plan a trip. You could hike an entire trail and someone could be at every single camp site. You would either be forced to encroach on their space (or vice versa) and camp with neighbors, get off the trail completely and come back later, or decide to create a new camp site making your human footprint even bigger. Some places aren't popular enough to warrant permit systems and you rarely get double occupied camp site issues. Other places are booked a year or more in advance. Can you imagine the enchantments without permits? Its literally one of the most desired backpacking spots in the US and you have to enter a lottery for permits in february. Rocky mountain national park has been nearly completely booked at certain points. Every backcountry camp site in the entire park being slept in over the course of a summer weekend. So why would people frown upon sidestepping the rules? African AIDS cum posted:I think the majority of people are honest and good. Knowingly breaking the established rules via a loophole to fulfill your immediate needs doesn't seem very honest or good. Or maybe you see yourself as the minority ... Doing what you mentioned would take that permit out of the system for someone who might use it for its proper use (500+ miles) when you know you aren't going that far. You asked a question (even if it was abstract) to a thread of people passionate about hiking and when multiple people responded negatively to the idea proposed, you got very defensive. You then went on to try to find reasons which I perceived as an attempt to justify your abstract idea. You also went on to describe why you think the national parks should do away with permits all together and that you don't agree with their policy as if it makes it okay to do what you want to do.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:41
|
|
|
Vivian Darkbloom posted:Well, it doesn't work so great if you haven't got any soil to decompose in. Doesn't the wind dry it out into dust? Admittedly, I am only familiar with muggy rear end mid Atlantic forests where your socks start rotting before you turn around to head home, but I cannot think of any where I would like to walk enough to be worth carrying my own poop. Unless I had a dog and made him carry it as some weird reversal of fortune thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
TerminalSaint posted:A lot of people over the years have felt that not being allowed to cut pine boughs for bedding, have fires wherever they pleased, or camp in sensitive areas kept them from enjoying the beautiful nature that God endowed us with, too. Welp. Sucks for them. If you boys aren't clever enough to make a system that can't be gamed then it sucks for you guys. Game the system dude, gently caress it man. Besides, your an American taxpayer- your entitled to use the land within the laws. And it's legal to loophole dipshit rangers parks rules and quotas. So that's within the law. Go nuts. Just, ya know, LNT or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:45
|
|
|
OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH posted:Welp. Sucks for them. If you boys aren't clever enough to make a system that can't be gamed then it sucks for you guys. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:59
|
|
|
So how do you guys feel about government owned land that has no public access? The county I live in is full of 200 to 600 acre parks that have no actual access. I plan to do much hiking, camping and fishing in these spots this summer. It seems like a shame to let homeless guys have all the fun.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:04
|
|
|
Honestly I regret not gaming the system in the Enchantments last year. Permits stink and I understand their objective value, I just think they should be more market priced. With the giant demand for these places, double, triple, whatever the fee.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:06
|
|
|
Or just go places that don't require permits? At least here in Washington there are tons of them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:15
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Honestly I regret not gaming the system in the Enchantments last year. Permits stink and I understand their objective value, I just think they should be more market priced. With the giant demand for these places, double, triple, whatever the fee.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
gently caress you, got my hiking.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:34
|
|
|
evil_bunnY posted:You literally don't understand what permits are about. Limiting the number of people. It should be done by who's willing to pay the most, not random chance in a lottery. Extra funding would help the whole nps too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:34
|
|
|
 gently caress you, got my hiking. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:35
|
|
|
TerminalSaint posted:gently caress you, got my hiking.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Limiting the number of people. It should be done by who's willing to pay the most, not random chance in a lottery. Extra funding would help the whole nps too. The issue there is that it would mean the more in demand a place is, the wealthier a person would have to be to access it. The system is intended to limit use while still allowing equal access.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:42
|
|
|
TerminalSaint posted:The issue there is that it would mean the more in demand a place is, the wealthier a person would have to be to access it. The system is intended to limit use while still allowing equal access. So long as your job/life lets you plan things months in advance I guess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:44
|
|
|
bunnielab posted:So long as your job/life lets you plan things months in advance I guess. And afford plane tickets, rental cars, gear etc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:46
|
|
|
Equal access to the leisure class who have the time and luxury to parse the 8 million different conflicting rules and spend hours trying to get through a busy signal to send a fax to enter a lottery day after day http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114621/national-parks-popular-white-people-not-minorities-why
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:And afford plane tickets, rental cars, gear etc. I could do that, just not predict when will be free more then a month or so out. Which is why I will spend the summer riverside camping next to homeless dudes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
African AIDS cum posted:Equal access to the leisure class who have the time and luxury to parse the 8 million different conflicting rules and spend hours trying to get through a busy signal to send a fax to enter a lottery day after day Eh, the kayak fishing forum I belong to is like the BK kids club, assuming you only count people over 40. But yea, I don't know how the idea that leisure time spent outdoors is tied to class, which is tied to race, is a surprise to anyone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:51
|
|
|
It shouldn't take someone with a college degree a few hours of research just to figure out how to do a weekend hiking trip. The NPS and these other agencies are an abysmal failure.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:54
|
|
|
many of these places would just be absolutely destroyed if there was no limiter on the people visiting. a large part of this all has to do with conservation and land management which is generally a part of what the forest service and park service were created to do so in that yes they are doing their jobs and are not failures. Their purpose isn't just "provide access to the land in every possible way". There are many many places to go hiking or backpacking that require no permits and you can just drive or walk up there or whatever and go. a relatively few places being protected isn't a big deal. If I'm not mistaken, the vast majority of public land in the US is BLM land anyways and they're much more lenient about what goes on e: like seriously, if Yosemite's permit system is too crazy for you just go to the Hoover Wilderness that's right outside the boundaries and you can self issue permits right at the trailhead. Even getting a permit in Yosemite isn't that hard if you spend just a second looking at options that aren't the super popular trails. If you find it difficult in the slightest to find a place to go hiking or backpacking because of "permits" then you're just not trying. Levitate fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Mar 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
Texibus posted:Any decent pants out there for hiking, bought some a while back and seems it's time to replace? Don't like convertible or cargo, just straight pants with good mobility. Tons of good pants out there for hiking. Personally, my current favorites are prAna Stretch Zion pants. Really great mobility and comfort. They look like standard khaki dress slacks without the crease. They are a little pricey though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
Do you want to see what national parks look like without permits? This is Hua Shan in central China a few hours drive from Xi'an.   Or how about Mount Bromo in eastern Java, Indonesia.  Literally shoulder to shoulder. Half Dome would look like this if not for the lottery/permit system.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
Saint Fu posted:Literally shoulder to shoulder. Half Dome would look like this if not for the lottery/permit system.  
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 01:16
|
|
|
Not sure if any of you have hiked Mt. Monadnock, but at one point it was considered to be the most combed mountain in the world. It's short, but has a bald summit, not due to elevation, but because of fires in the past. On a nice weekend day you will not be able to find a spot to sit on the summit, and the trails near the top are single file and certain sections that are more difficult can take a while to get through.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 01:19
|
|
|
Agreed it's ridiculous. I worked on the subdome steps for a summer on trail crew and it was insane. Were these photos from before the permit system was implemented?
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 01:27
|
|
|
Saint Fu posted:Were these photos from before the permit system was implemented? Yes. I did it in '05 before the permit system went in, and it looked just like that from about 11am to 4pm. Plus there was the giant piles of discarded gloves at the base of the cables. They make sure you pack out your gloves now, so there's generally only a few strays up there anymore.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 01:37
|
|
|
Yeah I just grabbed the first couple of pics off of google image search, probably was before. Generally these places are extremely popular because the Park Service has made it easy to access them. How many people do you think Yosemite would see if it was a one lane dirt road up into the mountains and maybe a ranger station up there with a primitive camp site? How many people would drive across nearly nonexistent roads to the rim of the Grand Canyon to go backpacking in it if there wasn't an entire village built there now? The Park Service has made a lot of places incredibly easy access for the public
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 01:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:14 |
|
|
Texibus posted:Any decent pants out there for hiking, bought some a while back and seems it's time to replace? Don't like convertible or cargo, just straight pants with good mobility. I don't recommend whiny-pants, despite the current preference for them on the thread right now. But I've been happy with all the pants I've ever bought from Columbia. They are practical, which is saying something in women's pants. Hypatias Homegirl fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Mar 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 03:04
|
|
