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Progressive JPEG posted:why does the lovely updater in fedora always insist on rebooting the whole machine, twice, to install any updates? who cares if it's a desktop machine, you're either not running linux or you don't care about the mechanics, just that it finishes and works if it's a server, you're not rebooting it to install updates, you're provisioning an updated machine and then disposing of the old one
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Mar 18, 2015 16:49
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Suspicious Dish posted:Updates cannot be applied to a live system safely. the traditional update is really stupid and dumb and bad and you can run into many race conditions (and do run into many race conditions) but most people put up with it. I can give specific examples if you want. so we should look forward to servers needing to be rebooted in order to install an openssl security update?
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Mar 18, 2015 16:51
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Subjunctive posted:so we should look forward to servers needing to be rebooted in order to install an openssl security update? this is through the gui updater. why would you have a gui on a server?
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Mar 18, 2015 16:53
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Subjunctive posted:so we should look forward to servers needing to be rebooted in order to install an openssl security update? Rebuilt, not just rebooted. Either way's fair, really. SMDH if you're so mentally diseased you're concerned about individual server uptimes. Alternatively, Debian's updater will restart any services that depend on openssl when upgrading that package, which seems like it's better than anything anybody else's got.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:07
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won't kernel 4.0 have hot patching so you can apply security fixes and things like that without needing a reboot?
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Mar 18, 2015 17:21
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So if I like the many things that Just Work (kind of) in Fedora/GNOME, but really want a tiling window manager for work (I currently use xmonad), what are my options? Don't get me wrong, manually mounting USB sticks is cool and all and fidgeting around with xrandr and arandr whenever I attach monitors makes me feel manly, but maybe I should give another way a try.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:30
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The_Franz posted:won't kernel 4.0 have hot patching so you can apply security fixes and things like that without needing a reboot? ksplice already exists
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Mar 18, 2015 17:33
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OldAlias posted:this is through the gui updater. why would you have a gui on a server? why can't the gui updater do the same things a command-line one does? I'm pretty sure having a window for the update UI is not the major issue. ruby idiot railed posted:Rebuilt, not just rebooted. Either way's fair, really. SMDH if you're so mentally diseased you're concerned about individual server uptimes. I'm a bit concerned about reboot disruption (losing shell/editor state on shared development machines, f.e.), but mostly that it will lead to people not applying patches as aggressively.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:35
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Suspicious Dish posted:Updates cannot be applied to a live system safely. the traditional update is really stupid and dumb and bad and you can run into many race conditions (and do run into many race conditions) but most people put up with it. I can give specific examples if you want. So Fedora is explicitly catching up to Windows Update but poorly and with additional reboots? Can you update on shutdown yet?
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Mar 18, 2015 17:42
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Subjunctive posted:so we should look forward to servers needing to be rebooted in order to install an openssl security update? I mean, unless you explicitly track down and restart all services using OpenSSL (something that Red Hat worked on for a long time and got a partial solution for, it's a *hard problem*), you should just reboot the entire box. This is one of the things that systemd lets you do better, since you can now restart all services through one place instead of these three through init, these three through cron, etc.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:10
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MrMoo posted:So Fedora is explicitly catching up to Windows Update but poorly and with additional reboots? Can you update on shutdown yet? Update on shutdown is difficult for another set of reasons, and it broke several important things, so we went for the super-safe route for now. The long-term vision is to have OS updates and application updates as separate moving parts, so you can update your applications independently from your OS, and then you won't have a broken Firefox because you tried to update LibreOffice.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:12
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pram posted:ksplice already exists yeah, but that required you to pay oracle money.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:26
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Athas posted:So if I like the many things that Just Work (kind of) in Fedora/GNOME, but really want a tiling window manager for work (I currently use xmonad), what are my options? kde doesn't really care what your window manager is http://awesome.naquadah.org/wiki/KDE_and_awesome#Option_1:_.desktop_files
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Mar 18, 2015 18:36
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pram posted:ksplice already exists ksplice getting replaced by a suse/redhat effort, which i assume means red hat will start supporting whatever the new thing is
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Mar 18, 2015 18:36
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I installed ubuntu & then installed the nvidia driver from the software updater. after logging out & back in, unity wouldn't come back up and I couldn't drop down to a virtual terminal either (though I could go to the vga console). I don't think I'll be using ubuntu.
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Mar 18, 2015 19:52
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:kde doesn't really care what your window manager is clicked the link and found 
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Mar 18, 2015 20:03
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:clicked the link and found python mutt anime illegal gambling yeah i guess that's what i expected your average tiling wm user to resemble
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Mar 18, 2015 20:08
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:kde doesn't really care what your window manager is Maybe I will try it out, but it is not nearly as nice as GNOME. I have Emacs and the terminal for when I just want things to have tons of features and power. So what's the best distribution on which to run KDE?
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Mar 18, 2015 21:39
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an enlarged slice of the wayne "pighammer" static  ended up on this image i posted, managed to screenshot what i thought was a driver fuckup, lmao @ this lovely screen compositing or w/e teh hell. refreshed page and it was gone
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Mar 19, 2015 00:32
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Sassafras fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 02:40
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Alternatively just work somewhere that does not allow installing updates except in the case of a bug that causes a critical failure.
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Mar 19, 2015 03:01
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reinstalled the linux. apparently every DE except XFCE and LXDE is still crap if you have multiple monitors and want to play a Source game
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Mar 19, 2015 03:03
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Sassafras posted:Debian's "checkrestart" script, hiding out in the "debian-goodies" package seems to do a fairly credible job via lsof at telling you what needs to be restarted, although certain services are safer to restart than others. Yeah, Red Hat built "needs-restarting" which is extremely similar. It does not catch all cases and is dangerous to use automatically.
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Mar 19, 2015 03:09
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Suspicious Dish posted:i use linux because it's fun to work on. i enjoy writing the code and poking into low-level systems poo poo. the application ecosystem is still poo poo and the community is trash and i don't honestly see any way of improving it you could work on OS X, Apple is hiring
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Mar 19, 2015 03:26
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I might eventually. Right now, I'm really loving what I'm doing at Endless. The problems are challenging and engaging, the work is right up my alley, and my coworkers are really cool.
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Mar 19, 2015 04:19
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My fedora edition linux desktop operating system 21 keeps breaking whenever I run yum update, am I not supposed to do that or what
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Mar 19, 2015 05:56
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Athas posted:Maybe I will try it out, but it is not nearly as nice as GNOME. I have Emacs and the terminal for when I just want things to have tons of features and power. 
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Mar 19, 2015 10:07
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Duo posted:My fedora edition linux desktop operating system 21 keeps breaking whenever I run yum update, am I not supposed to do that or what it is not supposed to break, what is breaking?
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Mar 19, 2015 11:52
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lol
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Mar 19, 2015 12:06
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l linux is ready for the big time
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Mar 19, 2015 12:17
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aaah hahaha thats great i can definitely see that slipping through a ton of testing, i dont think i have ever let a shutdown timer like that display for more than 3 seconds or so
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Mar 19, 2015 13:33
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Lysidas posted:a ton of testing lol.
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Mar 19, 2015 13:51
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Lysidas posted:a ton of tester so, three linux users
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Mar 19, 2015 15:38
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Duo posted:My fedora edition linux desktop operating system 21 keeps breaking whenever I run yum update, am I not supposed to do that or what this is just what happens when you use linux
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Mar 19, 2015 16:06
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Captain Pike posted:this is just what happens when you use linux I typically avoid doing updates for anything other than my web browser because I've been burnt more than a few times leaving me with a completely unusable system (usually related to nvidia drivers, but occasionally GDM or KDM or whatever) and losing a day's worth of work to having to hook up my windows pc and download a new linux iso and set that poo poo back up. After the first couple times I got smart and started making lists and scripts and keeping a separate /home partition to reduce this time down to about an hour.
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Mar 19, 2015 16:13
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or hey maybe if you rely on your linux poo poo to do serious work you shouldn't run bleeding edge poo poo and update to alpha and beta software constantly
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Mar 19, 2015 16:19
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e: nvm
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Mar 19, 2015 16:19
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Ubuntu 12.04. the bleeding edge of Linux.
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Mar 19, 2015 16:26
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ZShakespeare posted:Ubuntu 12.04. the bleeding edge of Linux. why the gently caress would you install ubuntu and expect any better result? ubuntu, putting the sores in open source
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Mar 19, 2015 16:28
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I have the rpm now since I paid attention and found out oracle accounts are free, guess I assumed that it was like the msdn and you needed to pay now to crowbar it into a fedora 21 vm, yay for outdated cs assignments
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Mar 19, 2015 16:29
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