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sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)

Munkeymon posted:

E: also the coding test was an RPN evaluator, which turned out to be a pretty fun and easy.

Was this your answer?

perl -ape 'eval((q[push@s,$_],"\$s[-2]$_=pop\@s")[/^[-+*\/]$/])for(@F);$_="$s[-1]\n"'

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Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



sarehu posted:

Was this your answer?

perl -ape 'eval((q[push@s,$_],"\$s[-2]$_=pop\@s")[/^[-+*\/]$/])for(@F);$_="$s[-1]\n"'

It was actually slightly more complicated than that would handle - probably so that I couldn't just google it.

Also you forgot the unit tests :colbert:

Kosani
Jun 30, 2004
Ni ni.
edit - post didn't belong here.

Kosani fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Mar 18, 2015

geetee
Feb 2, 2004

>;[
Someone please convince me I'm not a bad person for going along with what follows.

Today I was invited to a meeting titled "International Expansion 2015." It was already a downer when I assumed it was going to involve localizing our products, but it was worse.

They want us to serve all European traffic out of our data center in Europe. (I think only a few things are set up there currently.) This sounds perfectly wise for the obvious latency reasons, but that's not the driving force.

They basically want to use some corporate tax loophole to minimize what they need to pay Uncle Sam. I know plenty of companies do this kind of stuff, but I'm just used to reading about it and shaking my head, not actively participating. Should I feel such an ethical dilemma?

Oh yeah, and they want it done by April 15th. We have dozens of products, many legacy with the original people long gone. Sometimes I wish I was entry level again so nobody bothered me with these projects.

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)
That's not an ethical dilemma. Tax avoidance is a perfectly moral thing to do.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

geetee posted:

They want us to serve all European traffic out of our data center in Europe. (I think only a few things are set up there currently.) This sounds perfectly wise for the obvious latency reasons, but that's not the driving force.

They basically want to use some corporate tax loophole to minimize what they need to pay Uncle Sam. I know plenty of companies do this kind of stuff, but I'm just used to reading about it and shaking my head, not actively participating. Should I feel such an ethical dilemma?

For me it would depend on how much of the business is being done in Europe. Like, does the European traffic lead to Europeans purchasing goods that are then shipped to them from European warehouses by European workers? To me that sounds like European business and therefore the taxes belong to some member of the EU. If Europeans are ordering goods that are shipped internationally from the U.S., yeah that seems a bit scummier.

I KNOW that that's not the dividing line according to written law (because that makes sense and as is pretty well established by now, the letter of the law has little to do with what makes sense). That's just more or less where my personal moral line is.

As to whether you SHOULD feel an ethical dilemma, that's a question only you can answer, and how much it matters to you vs. how much you need to pay the bills. I'm pretty drat confident that you refusing to do the work or objecting will result in them re-thinking the ethics of tax dodging, though.

geetee
Feb 2, 2004

>;[

Che Delilas posted:

I'm pretty drat confident that you refusing to do the work or objecting will result in them re-thinking the ethics of tax dodging, though.

I should have clarified, we don't actually ship a physical product, it's all consumer software. Also it's a multi-billion dollar company, so there is no chance they'll re-think it.

Sorry if I came off overly dramatic. I would quit if we were supporting the human sex trade. This just feels gross.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

geetee posted:

I should have clarified, we don't actually ship a physical product, it's all consumer software. Also it's a multi-billion dollar company, so there is no chance they'll re-think it.

Sorry if I came off overly dramatic. I would quit if we were supporting the human sex trade. This just feels gross.

It sounds like you are over-thinking it. There are good technical reasons to serve up your data more locally, focus on that.

the talent deficit
Dec 20, 2003

self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture





am i totally out of line for asking for additional compensation for a 'remote' job that's only remote because the current dev team all prefer to work from home? i argued that they'd either be paying for office space or relocation if the job was conventional and they countered they think it's a benefit i'm not 'required' to be in an office and that other employees have given up ~20k in comp because of it

i live in one of the highest cost of living cities in north america if it matters

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

the talent deficit posted:

am i totally out of line for asking for additional compensation for a 'remote' job that's only remote because the current dev team all prefer to work from home? i argued that they'd either be paying for office space or relocation if the job was conventional and they countered they think it's a benefit i'm not 'required' to be in an office and that other employees have given up ~20k in comp because of it

i live in one of the highest cost of living cities in north america if it matters

Is the pay in line with typical compensation for a company in their city? If the company is based in the deep south where people live like kings on $80k salaries and you live in NYC or the like, you're totally justified in asking for compensation in line with your cost of living needs. They're totally justified in saying no.

Occasional work from home is generally considered a perk. 100% work from home is considered a huge perk. I work from home most of the time, and yes, I'm being paid about 10-15% less than I would be if I took a different job (this is backed up by declined job offers). I consider the extra 4+ hours a day of sleep/leisure time to be well worth it. I figure I'm saving at least $10k a year in commuting/laundry/clothing expenses, and the value of an extra 20+ hours of free time a week is hard to quantify.

Basically, to them, the conversation is going like this:
Them: Good news! You don't have to come in to the office! You get extra free time and don't have to pay commuting costs!
You: Well you should pay me extra for this convenience because you don't have to rent an office.
Them: :confused:

New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Mar 19, 2015

the talent deficit
Dec 20, 2003

self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture





Ithaqua posted:

Is the pay in line with typical compensation for a company in their city? If the company is based in the deep south where people live like kings on $80k salaries and you live in NYC or the like, you're totally justified in asking for compensation in line with your cost of living needs. They're totally justified in saying no.

Occasional work from home is generally considered a perk. 100% work from home is considered a huge perk. I work from home most of the time, and yes, I'm being paid about 10-15% less than I would be if I took a different job (this is backed up by declined job offers). I consider the extra 4+ hours a day of sleep/leisure time to be well worth it. I figure I'm saving at least $10k a year in commuting/laundry/clothing expenses, and the value of an extra 20+ hours of free time a week is hard to quantify.

the compensation is below market but not significantly so. they're actually located in the same city i'm located in so it's not a market disparity either. they just don't have an office for me. i can see occasional work from home being a perk but i don't have room for an office in my current place so finding my own is a significant expense. i'm not interested in cafes either. i guess if you live alone or already have a home office working remote is a perk but it's a definite drawback in my situation. i guess i'm probably not a good fit?

WHERE MY HAT IS AT
Jan 7, 2011
Ask them to pay for a coworking space in your city? They tend to be reasonably cheap, especially for a single person.

kitten smoothie
Dec 29, 2001

WHERE MY HAT IS AT posted:

Ask them to pay for a coworking space in your city? They tend to be reasonably cheap, especially for a single person.

Good idea. My company does this, it works out pretty nice. The few hundred bucks a month for a small office in a shared space is still a pretty minimal dollar amount compared to an engineer's salary.

Mrs. Wynand
Nov 23, 2002

DLT 4EVA
I think it's more than a bit weird to ask for additional compensation based on this. It's not really their problem - the offer is what it is - it's either competitive with your other options or it isn't. Part of that evaluation is work environment, and part of that is having an actual office to work in, or the ability to work from home - whichever is relevant to you. It's the same as evaluating a job with a crappy commute or doing something you hate etc.

So basically you can say "I am interested in the work, but I wasn't really looking for [remote work | having to drive to Pleasanton Office Park every day | working in the puppy-grinding industry] as such - so as-is this just isn't looking like a good fit unless we can work something out?". You'd say the exact same thing even if you were just asking for more money and nothing else (e.g. "I was looking for something closer to my salary expectation, which is at least $X").

That they don't have to pay for an office just doesn't come into it. I really wouldn't bring it up - for the same reason you don't bring up how much you think a company could be paying you. They can afford a great many things for various reasons - but this is what they are offering you.

the talent deficit
Dec 20, 2003

self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture





Mr. Wynand posted:

So basically you can say "I am interested in the work, but I wasn't really looking for [remote work | having to drive to Pleasanton Office Park every day | working in the puppy-grinding industry] as such - so as-is this just isn't looking like a good fit unless we can work something out?". You'd say the exact same thing even if you were just asking for more money and nothing else (e.g. "I was looking for something closer to my salary expectation, which is at least $X").

this is basically what happened. they made an offer, i countered with a much higher number, they balked and i suggested we try to get creative with comp. they presented a package they thought was equivalent to my ask and i asked them how they arrived at the number. that's when they suggested me being remote was worth a sizeable chunk. i disagreed and told them i'd take less if they had an office i could work out of

i just thought it was really weird they'd present 'pay for your own office and tools!' as some kind of benefit to me

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

the talent deficit posted:

i just thought it was really weird they'd present 'pay for your own office and tools!' as some kind of benefit to me

It's because it usually is a benefit, except it's not "pay for your own office and tools." It's "use the tools you already have because you're a programmer and you have a powerful computer, and save potentially hours of your own time by not having to commute, and not have to put up with a bunch of distracting office noise or a boss looking over your shoulder because you're at home." Obviously that's not your situation, but I think that's how most people see it so I'm not surprised that they offer somewhat less money for that situation.

So yeah, it sounds like maybe you aren't a good fit for each other.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Che Delilas posted:

It's because it usually is a benefit, except it's not "pay for your own office and tools." It's "use the tools you already have because you're a programmer and you have a powerful computer, and save potentially hours of your own time by not having to commute, and not have to put up with a bunch of distracting office noise or a boss looking over your shoulder because you're at home." Obviously that's not your situation, but I think that's how most people see it so I'm not surprised that they offer somewhat less money for that situation.

So yeah, it sounds like maybe you aren't a good fit for each other.

You can often get them to chip in for things like internet, phone, and other such expenses. And if you work from home, you can declare that on your income tax (Canada) and part of your home costs (mortgage, rent, utilities, etc) can be deducted from your income.

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Che Delilas posted:

It's because it usually is a benefit, except it's not "pay for your own office and tools." It's "use the tools you already have because you're a programmer and you have a powerful computer, and save potentially hours of your own time by not having to commute, and not have to put up with a bunch of distracting office noise or a boss looking over your shoulder because you're at home." Obviously that's not your situation, but I think that's how most people see it so I'm not surprised that they offer somewhat less money for that situation.

So yeah, it sounds like maybe you aren't a good fit for each other.

A good employer will buy you the poo poo you need to do your job. I have a company laptop, but use my own keyboard/mouse/monitors. I don't ask them to pay for internet access because I'd be paying for that anyway.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

Ithaqua posted:

A good employer will buy you the poo poo you need to do your job. I have a company laptop, but use my own keyboard/mouse/monitors. I don't ask them to pay for internet access because I'd be paying for that anyway.

I could just as easily say I don't expect them to pay for a computer because I have one at the location I'll be working (home) anyway. That said, something like that is such a trivial, and static, cost for a business that develops software that if I asked for one and they said it wasn't in their budget or it would cut into my compensation package, I would be seriously concerned (to put it mildly). I would absolutely expect them to pay for development software like Visual Studio since that's not something I'm going to buy for myself if I'm not already running my own development company.

bonds0097
Oct 23, 2010

I would cry but I don't think I can spare the moisture.
Pillbug
At my current job, my boss asked me what kind of computer I wanted and then ordered the top of the line Mac Book Pro from the Apple store and had it shipped directly to my house. Having a dedicated work computer without any IT bloat ware is awesome.

I definitely think that working from home is a huge perk. That said, I have a nice home office space. I really leverage being remote though, last year I worked from Rome for a week, Cancun for a week and this year I'm gonna spend some time in France and Switzerland. It's amazing to have that kind of flexibility and to get to travel so much without having to take vacation days.

At my last job, our entire team was remote except for one guy who insisted on working at HQ in person. Ironically, he was the only person on the team who felt lonely and isolated because his work environment differed so much from everyone else's.

NovemberMike
Dec 28, 2008

If you're working remotely the company should be willing to pay for your work setup, up to things like an Aeron chair and a nice desk. It just isn't a huge cost for the company and they'd be paying that anyway for an on-site employee.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Che Delilas posted:

I could just as easily say I don't expect them to pay for a computer because I have one at the location I'll be working (home) anyway.
So when your computer breaks two years sooner than expected because you use it an additional 6-8 hours a day than you would otherwise (for work purposes), do you just eat the cost of repair or replace?

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

ExcessBLarg! posted:

So when your computer breaks two years sooner than expected because you use it an additional 6-8 hours a day than you would otherwise (for work purposes), do you just eat the cost of repair or replace?

Computers don't really break down that way.

NovemberMike
Dec 28, 2008

Skandranon posted:

Computers don't really break down that way.

Depends on the usage. If it's a laptop he's taking with him places because he needs to do work (ie. he brings the laptop on vacation so he doesn't have to take time off) then you're going to put more wear and tear on it than a computer you leave at home all day.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

NovemberMike posted:

Depends on the usage. If it's a laptop he's taking with him places because he needs to do work (ie. he brings the laptop on vacation so he doesn't have to take time off) then you're going to put more wear and tear on it than a computer you leave at home all day.

This is more due to either having a spinning hard drive, which simply doesn't like being moved around. An SSD fixes this. The rest is physical damage from touching it (break hinges, dropped, etc). Either way, you are still coming out so far ahead, and like has also been mentioned, most companies will buy you the hardware, if for nothing else than to enforce IT policies.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

NovemberMike posted:

If you're working remotely the company should be willing to pay for your work setup, up to things like an Aeron chair and a nice desk. It just isn't a huge cost for the company and they'd be paying that anyway for an on-site employee.
On-site, it's a company asset that lives in the office even though employees might come and go. Many companies aren't eager to expense thousand-dollar things that can't be easily shipped back.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Misogynist posted:

On-site, it's a company asset that lives in the office even though employees might come and go. Many companies aren't eager to expense thousand-dollar things that can't be easily shipped back.

If they can't trust someone they pay 100k with a $2000 laptop, then they have serious issues.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Skandranon posted:

Computers don't really break down that way.
Sure they do. CFL-backlit monitors have backlights that go bad. SSDs use more erase cycles. Substantially greater thermal loads on PSUs, CPUs, GPUs, etc., can make those start doing funny things after a while.

So a monitor I own, that I mostly use for work, just went bad on me a few weeks ago. Its warranty replacement has awful backlight bleed, so I ended up purchasing a new (open box) monitor and keeping the old one as a spare. I didn't expense the replacement in part due to hassle, and in part because I don't use it exclusively for work purposes (though I do ~80%). If the replacement cost much more than it did though, I probably would've tried to expense it.

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed
I've never had a computer "break" or wear out on me, even with a few years where I was gaming 8+ hours a day on a laptop and simultaneously torrenting hundreds of gigabytes of files. I've had to replace parts occasionally, but the overwhelming majority of the computer parts I've ever owned still worked fine when I last used them and were replaced only because they were outdated.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Skandranon posted:

If they can't trust someone they pay 100k with a $2000 laptop, then they have serious issues.
Read that post you quoted again.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

ExcessBLarg! posted:

Sure they do. CFL-backlit monitors have backlights that go bad. SSDs use more erase cycles. Substantially greater thermal loads on PSUs, CPUs, GPUs, etc., can make those start doing funny things after a while.

I'm sorry, but programming does not put substantially greater thermal load on a CPU or GPU. At least not the kind of programming I've ever done; I spend most of my time typing, not building or rendering. If you're talking about the fact that these things are just ON during the day when they otherwise wouldn't be, okay, but idling doesn't really put any kind of strain on these components. Running during the day or not, most of this poo poo isn't going to wear out and die before I'm ready to replace the machine on my own anyway (barring manufacturing defects, but if this is my home machine I'm replacing those parts myself anyway).

If your nightmare scenario happens and my computer just suffers multiple catastrophic hardware failure one day out of nowhere, somehow, I would probably ask for a laptop from the company at that point so I could keep working. I'm not getting a Dell Business Line Laptop for my own use and it usually takes me some time to research and order components for my personal machines.

But the real answer is that it completely depends on the scenario and the compensation I'm already getting and it's not a black and white situation, even though Internet likes to pretend otherwise much of the time.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Misogynist posted:

Read that post you quoted again.

Laptops are pretty easy to ship.

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)
Generally speaking if you're a developer, I don't think it makes sense to sweat the small stuff like your SSDs lasting only ten years instead of twelve. The mindset that everything that you use for work must be tracked and expensed or else you lose doesn't really make sense when it's like, you could negotiate your phone/laptop being expensed, or you could negotiate your salary to price that in. That kind of reasoning doesn't minimize combined taxes paid, I guess.

Milotic
Mar 4, 2009

9CL apologist
Slippery Tilde
I've been working in my current job for five years, and I'm thinking about a change. My CV is going to need a complete overhaul first. Is it worth going through the pain, blood, sweat and tears of learning LaTeX or are there better methods of iterating over and making decent looking CVs?

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

Milotic posted:

I've been working in my current job for five years, and I'm thinking about a change. My CV is going to need a complete overhaul first. Is it worth going through the pain, blood, sweat and tears of learning LaTeX or are there better methods of iterating over and making decent looking CVs?

Dear god. Use Word or LibreOffice.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Che Delilas posted:

Dear god. Use Word or LibreOffice.

Oh no, it's happening all over again!

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)
Word doesn't give you the control you need, use WorfProtect.

Milotic
Mar 4, 2009

9CL apologist
Slippery Tilde
Oops, I'd clean forgotten about the debate from last time. I've managed to knock together something using TeXnicCenter. Might post it in a few days time for feedback once I'm happy with it.

Once that's done, I need to come up with something I can put on GitHub that
1) Is clearly not at all related to work and
2) I can be bothered to code on in the evenings after spending all day at work coding.

Milotic
Mar 4, 2009

9CL apologist
Slippery Tilde
Double post, but company policy where I work is just to say "Yep, he worked here", and given my previous job was back in 2011, is it weird to put a personal referee as a second one? Or just put one?

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bonds0097
Oct 23, 2010

I would cry but I don't think I can spare the moisture.
Pillbug

Milotic posted:

Double post, but company policy where I work is just to say "Yep, he worked here", and given my previous job was back in 2011, is it weird to put a personal referee as a second one? Or just put one?

There's no reason to put references in your resume. Honestly, I don't even know the last time I was asked for references during a hiring process.

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