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KillHour posted:Getting"loving rich" is for people who either A: Sell things or B: Manage others. Unless you're a superstar engineer at Google, Microsoft, Cisco et al., you're not getting rich in a purely technical job. It's tying your compensation to the value you generate, not the loving CPI adjustment. I've always focused on the organizational above the technical and I love selling ideas and managing people. And I wanted to be a senator when I grew up if that's a hint towards the kind of person I am (i.e. delusional).
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Mar 20, 2015 19:00
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Bhodi posted:This comment is pretty pointless because virtually no one gets "loving rich" period and someone who is making 80k and invests half is going to come out the other end way richer than the superstar engineer @ 250k who drives a tesla and has a 4k mortgage. This is why I love when people who live in  or nova or manhattan brag about making 6 figures. Hey, I make 6 figures too (less than I'd make in California or wherever, obviously), but my cost of living 60% of yours. Getting "loving rich" on low 6 figures when you need to make 6 figures just to avoid poverty isn't the same.KillHour posted:Getting"loving rich" is for people who either A: Sell things or B: Manage others. Unless you're a superstar engineer at Google, Microsoft, Cisco et al., you're not getting rich in a purely technical job. Realistically, anybody can get "loving rich" if they want to by living cheap and investing wisely. Also, 100% remote work jobs can make you "loving rich" if you wanna move somewhere (I could theoretically move to the woods in NC or move to Wyoming and nobody would even know, and I'd be loaded in Idaho). But it's really hard to be "loving rich" and live a "loving rich" lifestyle without making sales/C-level kind of money or going into tons of debt. It's easier if you don't have kids, but still. Roargasm posted:Doesn't dealing in percentages of your paid out salary cheapen what you're doing? I've always negotiated in whole numbers. The total cost to employ you is much higher than what you're paid out, and I feel entitled to a raise of at least ... say 5% of the value that I generated during the year. The CEO who closes a bunch of locations for Q3 earnings fuckery is getting a significantly higher cut, and that's the kind of action I'm looking to get into (getting loving rich). Roargasm posted:And evol, if I were to say it to your face you would have had the pleasure of working with me already. But I meant that if someone came up to me and said "I got a 25% raise last year and the year before that, and I'm gonna leave this company in the dust if they don't give me at least 15% this year!", I wouldn't have any response but  If money's that important to someone, they'd already be jumping ship for another job that'll give more than 25%, which isn't hard to do as long as you're willing to be cutthroat and you're still in a role where you can expect a company to give you 15% or you leave (because you could presumably go to another company and get a wage equivalent to the 15% or more, otherwise you wouldn't even make comments about leaving). Or the person saying it desperately wants to prove how special they are and they think that talking about money is a good way to do that. It isn't. Not a personal judgment on you, but I find accomplishments impressive, and talking about what you do is way more likely to be more impressive than whether or not you're willing to hold you employer's feet to the fire for an unrealistic expectation of a salary bump.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:05
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I don't know about you guys, but I'm rich as hell and don't give a gently caress!!!!
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Mar 20, 2015 19:16
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evol262 posted:Realistically, anybody can get "loving rich" if they want to by living cheap and investing wisely. Also, 100% remote work jobs can make you "loving rich" if you wanna move somewhere (I could theoretically move to the woods in NC or move to Wyoming and nobody would even know, and I'd be loaded in Idaho). But it's really hard to be "loving rich" and live a "loving rich" lifestyle without making sales/C-level kind of money or going into tons of debt. It's easier if you don't have kids, but still. I don't get people who do that. The reason to be "loving rich" is to live like it. Who cares if you have millions in the bank if you live in a cabin in the mountains and chop your own firewood? That money's not doing anything for you, and it sure as hell isn't going to be worth poo poo after you're dead.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:16
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the fuckery that was getting regular line employees to accept stock options is hilarious and sad
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Mar 20, 2015 19:18
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This thread is hilarious because you can tell how long someone has been in the workforce by how they post, lmao.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:20
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I used the term loving rich in the literal context of discussing a CEO's compensation. The scare quotes aren't necessary, it was only for emphasis, and I am not implying that I'm the next Mark Cuban. But, that's the kind of scale and power that I aspire to 
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Mar 20, 2015 19:20
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http://www.6sqft.com/new-report-shares-what-you-need-to-be-earn-to-be-considered-rich-in-your-city Pretty interesting that "rich" is only in the 200k range. I mean yea it's a lot but if you somehow climbed your way to a director position you could be sitting pretty close to that
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Mar 20, 2015 19:23
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KillHour posted:I don't get people who do that. The reason to be "loving rich" is to live like it. Who cares if you have millions in the bank if you live in a cabin in the mountains and chop your own firewood? That money's not doing anything for you, and it sure as hell isn't going to be worth poo poo after you're dead. People aspire to different things. Some people want to retire really early with a lot of money in the bank, and that's easier to do if you're not stuck somewhere with lifestyle creep. Or maybe they just enjoy living in the mountains and chopping their own firewood and don't wanna have to worry about what happens if someone gets sick or they need a new car or they want to travel for the next 3 years or whatever. Just because you can't take it with you doesn't mean that everyone wants to do the same things with their money. Roargasm posted:I used the term loving rich in the literal context of discussing a CEO's compensation. The scare quotes aren't necessary, it was only for emphasis, and I am not implying that I'm the next Mark Cuban. But, that's the kind of scale and power that I aspire to I think a lot of people aspire to that. But again, if you aspire to that and you're already working in a position where you think you're so far below market rate that you could leave your company for an equivalent position making more than 15% above what you're making now, why aren't you? Either you aspire to it and you chase it, or you don't, but you can't have it both ways. "I aspire to power and wealth! But I'm gonna see if these guys pay me just enough to keep me satisfied... or else" SaltLick posted:http://www.6sqft.com/new-report-shares-what-you-need-to-be-earn-to-be-considered-rich-in-your-city Personally, I find this way more interesting. Yes, it's HuffPo, but they're just adjusting this for cost of living. Unless you really, really aspire to being "loving rich" (mocking quotes, not scare quotes), you should probably start pursuing other interests once you're past those benchmarks if you aren't happy/satisfied.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:34
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Roargasm posted:I used the term loving rich in the literal context of discussing a CEO's compensation. The scare quotes aren't necessary, it was only for emphasis, and I am not implying that I'm the next Mark Cuban. But, that's the kind of scale and power that I aspire to I just used the quotes to specify that I'm considering the entire phrase as a noun (i.e: loving rich can mean different things, but "loving rich" is a specific thing). Anyways, I'm just saying you're in the wrong job if that's what you aspire to. I'll be happy if I can keep the bill collectors away and have enough money (and free time) that I can splurge on a few relatively pricey toys (fun cars, interesting art, good food, etc.). evol262 posted:People aspire to different things. I get that, but some people take it to the extreme. I have a standard of living I hope to achieve that I believe is (relatively) realistic. Some people just want to hoard money for money's sake. KillHour fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 19:35
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evol262 posted:I think a lot of people aspire to that. But again, if you aspire to that and you're already working in a position where you think you're so far below market rate that you could leave your company for an equivalent position making more than 15% above what you're making now, why aren't you? Either you aspire to it and you chase it, or you don't, but you can't have it both ways. You're right, and it does sound really douchy hearing it quoted back at me. I just feel like I'm running out of things to learn here, at least technically. I want to work on a team and at a meaningful scale, but apparently I'm going to have to majorly adjust my expectations if I'm going to take a 2% raise as something besides an insult.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:43
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Gyshall posted:This thread is hilarious because you can tell how long someone has been in the workforce by how they post, lmao. The posters that have been around awhile are hardened shells of human beings.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:47
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if you're not getting more than cost of living/inflation adjustments then you need to promote yourself into a new job
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Mar 20, 2015 19:53
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Roargasm posted:You're right, and it does sound really douchy hearing it quoted back at me. I just feel like I'm running out of things to learn here, at least technically. I want to work on a team and at a meaningful scale, but apparently I'm going to have to majorly adjust my expectations if I'm going to take a 2% raise as something besides an insult. Then start looking now. If you're smart, charismatic and ballsy enough, you can for sure double your salary every 4-5 years. You'll never be in the same job/company for more than 2, and you'll always need to be hungry and aggressive, but it's doable. You have to claw and fight your way to the top. And the higher you go, the harder you have to fight.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:58
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Has anyone here been at a company or a position for more than a few years? I've never held one for more than 2 as I just get too bored and found something else more interesting.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:10
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mewse posted:Asus tried back around the eeePc days and it was as clunky and horrible as you might imagine You take that back  I thought it had potential the same w/all the netbooks before the ultraportable killed them all. Still some people say they were able to get work done (basic stuff ofc) and infinitely more useful than having a iPad/tablet. I own a N7 and although it's great for reading ebook and checking email not exactly going to do be working it anytime soon even if I bothered buying a KB for it.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:23
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Tab8715 posted:Has anyone here been at a company or a position for more than a few years? I was at my last job for 2 and a half, but I was beyond ready for a move at that point.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:26
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crunk dork posted:I don't know about you guys, but I'm rich as hell and don't give a gently caress!!!!
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Mar 20, 2015 20:26
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I'm poor. Please tell me how to get the skillz to pay the billz. Seriously I got a %4 raise this year and some stock options that should be worth a fair amount. I feel like I'm over qualified for this position but under qualified for the next tier up in my career. Ready to get out of my current company ASAP. How much does it hurt your ultimate earnings or set you back if you make a lateral move into another position? I feel like I get a job like that much quicker. At the same time I'd probably be better off sticking it out here, studying and then trying to move on.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:00
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BaseballPCHiker posted:I'm poor. Please tell me how to get the skillz to pay the billz.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:58
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SaltLick posted:http://www.6sqft.com/new-report-shares-what-you-need-to-be-earn-to-be-considered-rich-in-your-city Salaries tend to taper off at around 200k/yr, because the income tax burden makes things like equity packages or stock options much more attractive to senior executives. So even an executive will probably "only" have a salary of around $200k, but their total compensation will include equity and stock options, which are taxed at the lower capital gains rate and can be more easily sheltered from taxes while they gain value.
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Mar 20, 2015 22:00
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Misogynist posted:Lateral moves are awesome to see on a resume. It shows that people are bored where they are and motivated by the need for personal growth rather than money. What if someone stays where they are because they're NOT bored...
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Mar 20, 2015 22:02
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Well, I put my two weeks in today. I put it off for a couple days because I'd just requested a day to take my car into the mechanic's office before I got the offer. No more than one minute after I send in the email, I get a call from my boss and she sounded like I'm breaking up with her. I guess it's nice to feel wanted, but I also felt kind of crappy. I had a good team and a good boss, but we'd been understaffed and getting more understaffed since December. From how she was talking, it sounded like I could have actually talked to her and she would have tried to cut back on the length of the work week, but I'm too afraid of bosses to do that sort of thing. My first boss was my dad, and he's a tremendous hardass, the kind of person who would have thought of working 12 day weeks as a badge of honor. I feel bad for the one guy left on the on-call rotation, but I'm pretty sure my boss will realize that he can't be working every day until they get people to get back up to whatever HR thinks is the proper amount of people on the team (which is obviously too low). I can't worry about that, though. This job got me stressed to the point where I was chronically ill for a month. And now I'm at a job where I don't have to wear disposable clothes to avoid toner stains on clothes i care about, I get a 10% raise, I don't have to wear out my car (which I love) within the next year, I'm a lot less likely to get in a car accident when not driving 800 miles a week, and I'm rounding out my skillset so I can move up again in a year or two. Or even six months if they decide against converting me to full time. I don't want to be on the helpdesk forever. I don't want to be super rich, I just want to make high five, low six figures (inflation adjusted) while doing something I enjoy. I could live comfortably on that, donate heavily to charity, and save up enough to retire without having to worry about money. And for the people wondering where I was working: Compucom.
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Mar 20, 2015 22:02
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Tab8715 posted:Has anyone here been at a company or a position for more than a few years? Been with my current company over 11 years now. Current position, about 1.5 years. I've been promoted on a fairly regular basis over the past 11 years. The work is still interesting, the company takes really good care of us, and dammit, I hit 22 paid days off a year which is a real bitch to give up to go work somewhere else. I plan on working here as long as I'm happy and the environment stays good.
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Mar 20, 2015 22:06
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That's my dream, get somewhere that I can actually advance within. Because gently caress job-hunting and adjusting to a completely new job environment if I don't have to.
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Mar 20, 2015 22:16
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Roargasm posted:It's tying your compensation to the value you generate, not the loving CPI adjustment. I've always focused on the organizational above the technical and I love selling ideas and managing people. And I wanted to be a senator when I grew up if that's a hint towards the kind of person I am (i.e. delusional). It's not about how much value you generate for the company if there are 10 other guys who will do the same thing for the same pay. It's about the best alternative. If it is cheaper for the company to hire and train someone new instead of giving out a cut of revenue...
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Mar 20, 2015 22:54
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If you want your compensation to be directly tied to the value you bring to the company then you'd better start your own company because that's just about the only way it's going to happen barring extreme good job fortune.
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Mar 20, 2015 22:57
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Continuing the new job chat: I'm a young 20s guy without any college education who's been doing help desk for about 2.5 years, 9 months at my current position. I recently started interviewing for other help desk jobs for around 20/hr. I only make 15.50/hr right now. It's a pretty small company, supporting small businesses in the area with our biggest client having 500 users and 8 servers. Most of our clients have either one server or are small enough to have no need for it. I do software and hardware troubleshooting, and only escalate when it's something that requires an onsite visit or is one of our specialty customers. Basic help desk stuff. I've been unhappy in my current role and am looking to do more challenging work (scripting, building servers, more admin-y stuff) which, due to our size and our customers size, my employer can't accommodate. I really like the company, the people I work with, commute... everything but the work itself. Earlier this week I had an employee review with my manager and the VP. They offered me an 8% raise and told me they're putting together a plan to give me scripting projects, time off the phones, a few customer projects for me to run point on but I won't have specifics until next week. Then today my manager approached me about becoming the company's Mac expert, as everyone here only has Windows experience and two of our customers are going to be transitioning to a fully Mac environment. She had me spec out a MacBook for myself, and told me that they would pay for Mac training courses or books. All of this makes me happy and excited for the near future, but I still have reservations. I don't have any specific short-term goals but I see myself as a server admin in the future. I know I'm still young so I don't know how realistic this is but I don't want to pigeon-hole myself into desktop support. I'm afraid that if I don't make the jump into a junior sys-admin position soon I'll be stuck doing help desk for years. I haven't told anybody that I've had interviews or was looking to get out, but I'm kind of rethinking leaving in light of what happened this week. If I do get an offer I'll try and leverage it into a more competitive wage. I know they really want to keep me so are trying to give me what I want but I'm worried it won't be enough. So my questions: 1. How much are Apple products used in large corporations? I would prefer to work at a larger company if given the choice, and it'd suck if the Apple knowledge wasn't really transferrable. 2. How unrealistic am I being with the help desk > move up timeline? Edit: 3. How much of the Terminal would I use in managing a Mac server? Would it give me a strong enough base in Unix to translate into a Unix environment? unclenutzzy fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 00:15
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unclenutzzy posted:
You won't run into much Apple servers in the real world, but you will run into a lot of large enterprises that give Mac laptops to their users. A lot of universities give a choice of Lenovo or Apple laptops to it's students and they all pick Apple. I did a few years on help, but spent a lot of time learning Linux and was able to move up to linux server adminstration and eventually designing Linux server environments. It's a valid career path, but I suggest you cert up. I was able to learn a Linux because we sold Linux solutions, and I had no choice, but if we didn't do Linux I'd have worked on MS certs.
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Mar 21, 2015 01:05
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Just short of three weeks and I'm in an office. No more camping out in a conference room. It was hard to settle in without a place for my stuff.
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Mar 21, 2015 01:05
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easiest months paycheck ever?
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Mar 21, 2015 01:07
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Misogynist posted:Yeah I'm sick as hell of the humblebrag-at-best bullshit that this thread turns into every time we start talking about money It would bother me except that every salary post feels like one step closer to the next Corvette Fisher style meltdown. 
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Mar 21, 2015 02:38
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Tab8715 posted:Has anyone here been at a company or a position for more than a few years? Last job was 6 years, the 1st year was working on a core team establishing a central security group for a global bank that would coordinate and direct the regional groups in risk assessment, vuln assessments, and incident handling. The 2 years after that were spent building our own framework from the ground up because all the vendor solutions were poo poo in one way or another (usually in scaling). The next 2 were actually running the service with the group and streamlining processes and automation. And the last one was doing lights out, because shareholders decided to destroy the bank by chopping it up and selling it piecemeal. Literally the best job I ever had. The current one I've been here approaching 5 years, doing more of the same but growing out MSP offerings. In fact, I'm writing up a service proposal internally on what we need to do to add a fully managed network security offering to our portfolio. Thanks to the previous job, I think I can probably shave at least 12 months off of the design to proof of concept phase thanks to some hard lessons learned. There have been times when I've felt like I was stagnating and it was time to move on, but then we get "OMG! The sales people are saying we can do X! Um, can we do X?" and then it's back to seeing how we can integrate X into our services so it's a drop in rather than having to re-architect the entire solution. Security will be a little easier, since they'll need to be silo'd off from the other management services anyway. This so far is my second best job ever, and as long as things keep going this way, I'm staying. EDIT: Fixed cliffhanger ending. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 03:15
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If you're money focused and you think you're doing good in IT, Moana made 250k+ last year writing romance novels and a few years ago the Mitanni made several million and who knows how much those people in the day trading thread make but it's probably a lot. It's unlikely in the extreme that you'll be getting anywhere those numbers taking advice from this subforum, so you'll probably want to go elsewhere to chase your dream of owning a baby giraffe who lays golden eggs.
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Mar 21, 2015 03:17
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Bhodi posted:If you're money focused and you think you're doing good in IT, Moana made 250k+ last year writing romance novels and a few years ago the Mitanni made several million and who knows how much those people in the day trading thread make but it's probably a lot. It's unlikely in the extreme that you'll be getting anywhere those numbers taking advice from this subforum, so you'll probably want to go elsewhere to chase your dream of owning a baby giraffe who lays golden eggs. How the hell did a guy make millions off being an eve sperg lord? You might as well just yell stupid poo poo while streaming like pew die pie.
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Mar 21, 2015 03:21
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The median income (and success rate) for IT is probably significantly higher than artists, writers and youtube personalities. But I don't actually have any real statistics on that.
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Mar 21, 2015 03:25
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He was a lawyer on the subprime mortgage FHFA settlement with the Fannie team, If I recall. Helped negotiate the settlement. And yeah, IT is a great career that sperglords pretty much luck into, but you aren't getting rich, much less "loving rich" because as the frugal thread says humans get accustomed to nothing faster than an increase in wealth and station. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 03:26
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Secret to millions in IT. Get great. Move to Silicon Valley. Join startup for shitton of stock. Work 80 hour weeks. Pray Google buys you. Pretty simple.
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Mar 21, 2015 03:28
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Also that plan has a 1 in 100,000 chance so you might want to have a backup one when you're coming up on 40 with no friends, no relationships and no hobbies because work was your life for 10-15 years.
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Mar 21, 2015 03:34
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Bhodi posted:Also that plan has a 1 in 100,000 chance so you might want to have a backup one when you're on the long side of 30 with no friends, no relationships and no hobbies because work was your life for 10-15 years. I call that the DAF plan
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Mar 21, 2015 03:34
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