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ravenkult posted:It's not really a viable strategy. Try some of the semi pro magazines instead, some of them have good cred. Most of the royalty/no pay markets are poo poo and all editors know this. Cool thanks for the tip.
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Mar 19, 2015 23:36
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Yeah...if your story is good enough it will get published by a better magazine regardless of your "chops," so just focus on writing something good 
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Mar 20, 2015 00:15
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Correct words from correct people. Always start from the top.
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Mar 20, 2015 00:29
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You should realistically be able to get into at least a token payment magazine. But hey I one time submitted to a non paying place and got on the cover, as a half-favour to a friend. But it was one of the less notable things I have done. Duotrope handily lets you sort by paying market.
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Mar 21, 2015 00:19
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This is my list of good markets, not always well paying, but largely respected. Some might be temporary closed, but I removed the defunct ones (RIP Shock Totem). Nightmare Lightspeed Black Static Shimmer 3LBE Jamais Vu The Dark Fictionvale Pseudopod (audio, takes reprints) Apex Interzone Crowded EVP Clarkesworld Lamplight BCS Strange Horizons
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Mar 21, 2015 00:31
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ravenkult posted:This is my list of good markets, not always well paying, but largely respected. Some might be temporary closed, but I removed the defunct ones (RIP Shock Totem). Awesome list. I hadn't realised Shock Totem had closed. That's a real shame. I got rejected from there once but it was real nice publication.
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Mar 21, 2015 01:04
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Let's talk drafts! Personally I play around depending on the story. If I feel like I have a good handle on something early on then my drafts usually just consist of revisions and editing until I feel like it's done (My final draft is usually reserved for clearing up mistakes and streamlining). If I feel something is getting muddled then I usually do a complete re-write on my third draft. It's surprisingly easy because you tend to retain most of it in your head, it just comes out clearer. Those lines you loved in the first/second drafts tend to come out again and anything that doesn't probably wasn't worth remembering anyway. I have a friend who edits as they go along which just seems incredibly time consuming to me, particularly when you're working on a first draft. So, what's everyone's method of choice?
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Mar 21, 2015 12:41
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DrVenkman posted:Let's talk drafts! For people like me, I recommend setting some kind of deadline a day or so before the actual deadline so you get to look at it with fresh eyes. Invariably there will be story stubs and things you thought needed explaining but actually don't.
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Mar 22, 2015 02:50
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sebmojo posted:I edit as I go in a last minute frenzy, which means I end up with solid first drafts but find it very hard to go back and completely rework stuff. I wouldn't say it's slow though, most of my ~1k word dome stories take around an hour to write. Jesus, I'm the opposite of this, I can barely get down 250 words a day and them I'm still not happy with them. Do you generally spend the week planning things out, or how do you get to that point?
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Mar 22, 2015 02:58
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1st draft: have an idea, just write it all down. i always have a beginning and ending when i sit down to write. 2nd draft: change order of events, delete anything useless, add anything that might need elaboration (in this order) 3rd/final draft: polish that turd, boy
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Mar 22, 2015 03:03
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I generally have trouble seeing issues with order when I'm editing. I'm fine with cutting, adding, rewriting, tweaking wording, but it's just really hard for me to see when things should be moved around.
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Mar 22, 2015 05:58
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My first drafts are barely an outline. I almost call them draft zero, because it's just me sloppily sketching out the scene. In the next draft, the proper first draft, I flesh out the scene and dress it in flowing verbiage, finally confident in knowing what the gently caress needs to be said. I go over and over those words until they take a firm shape. Then I let it lay a while as I work on other things. I don't look at it for days, maybe weeks depending on whether or not I have a near deadline. When I come back to it, I pick the bad poo poo out and mull over whether I need to cut, refine, or rewrite. I start with the bigger structure and work my way inward, until I find myself killing stupid darlings and rubbing out cliches. At this point my poo poo is polished enough to get another pair of eyes on. I might pass it onto a first reader at this point, but it's more for encouragement than anything because I usually have a lot more poo poo to write before the story is done. Every scene or chapter spools out in a continuous fabric, one layered over another until I've reached the ending. I might pass it onto beta readers as soon as it's finished, knowing they'll take a while to read it and rip it apart. I'll throw it down in disgust for a while, for a novel perhaps months to a year. I'm in no hurry. I'll work on other stories, until I'm ready to tackle the old thing that's waiting to be stitched back together or entirely rewritten. My first drafts are a hot mess because I feel my way into stories. I don't outline because it"s more important to find my character's voice, to learn what he or she wants and how they're going to get it, among all the things that hold them back and piss them off. I've learned how to follow them. gently caress plotting. gently caress trying to draw a road map and shoving them along it, because that makes them clam up and dance like wooden puppets. I can feel the pulp in my mouth as I read back such stilted, souless poo poo. Instead I give them a destination and let them get there on their own, stumbling and shambling along the way. When you have a character--a real loving character--you can follow them anywhere. I find the plot in what they've already done, and only later try to cobble it into something sensible. Then I line edit, I guess. gently caress if I know. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 06:31
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Fuschia tude posted:Jesus, I'm the opposite of this, I can barely get down 250 words a day and them I'm still not happy with them. Do you generally spend the week planning things out, or how do you get to that point? I can't write without a deadline so close i can feel its breath on my neck, unfortunately, so i've had to learn to work fast. And though it makes me look all cool and stuff with flash fiction i can poo poo out in an hour, it's no help when i want to write something longer. But i do try and find a sense of what it might look like during the week while walking to work or w/e. Normally i think of the most dumb obvious version of a story then change the parts a bit at a time until it starts to look interesting then i write it to find out what happens.
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Mar 22, 2015 08:25
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angel opportunity posted:Yeah...if your story is good enough it will get published by a better magazine regardless of your "chops," so just focus on writing something good
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Mar 22, 2015 15:57
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I'm fairly prolific. 2k-3k words in a sitting is easy enough for me provided I can get myself to sit for it. They are generally of pretty low quality, though. So while I can (and have) written the first draft of a novel in a short few months, the revision takes 3 to 4 times longer. Again, if I can get myself to do it at all  EDIT: Also by the end of the first draft I loving loathe everything I have written, am writing, and will write. It's a serious demotivator.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:22
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Defenestration posted:Ok this is just straight up false. Not to discourage anyone but "quality" of story is super nebulous, and at best a tertiary concern after your industry connections/name and whether the editorial staff of said journal shares your aesthetic. I don't think this is true at all. I hope I don't sound like I'm dick-waving when I ask where you've been published? This hasn't been my experience with any of the major SF/F markets except Tor.com, where being a Tor author is the #1 qualification. Now, as for getting anyone to read the story once it's out, that's pretty much a matter of industry connections. 
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Mar 22, 2015 16:24
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General Battuta posted:I don't think this is true at all. I hope I don't sound like I'm dick-waving when I ask where you've been published? This hasn't been my experience with any of the major SF/F markets except Tor.com, where being a Tor author is the #1 qualification. I've been in a handful of lit journals/online publishers of varying recognizability. And I've read slush for my grad school journal and for a literary agent.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:41
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General Battuta posted:I don't think this is true at all. I hope I don't sound like I'm dick-waving when I ask where you've been published? This hasn't been my experience with any of the major SF/F markets except Tor.com, where being a Tor author is the #1 qualification. It kinda helps to get you past the slushers at some places (like, a sale at CW is almost guaranteed to get you past the slushers at CW next time, unless your story really sucks).
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Mar 22, 2015 16:50
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Stuporstar posted:When you have a character--a real loving character--you can follow them anywhere. Even into a romance with a prison toilet. 
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Mar 22, 2015 16:58
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Defenestration posted:I'd rather not say where but it's not the SF/F market so there's that. Oh, yeah, I'll believe you on that. Aren't most of the straight lit markets non-paying, too?
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Mar 22, 2015 17:10
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Martello posted:Even into a romance with a prison toilet. 
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Mar 22, 2015 18:09
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frig frig frig i tried to ninja edit because somehow there was an extra space between one of the lines after i copy pasted it unreal should have hit post preview. i looked over that thing for typos so many times how does it work do i get disqualified or just judged extra harshly? take the moon fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 19:44
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Recently I picked up the Discworld series on audiobook, and I'm simply struck by how beautifully Pratchett ties his setting in with the story. He goes on for pages about the Discworld and its cosmology, and he manages to keep it somewhat interesting and -- this is what hooks me -- pertinent to the narrative. A lot of stories try to show massive, detailed settings that have jack to do with what's going on; they spend pages upon pages building up this huge, fantastical world only to tell a the same stories everyone's heard before. I know I'm guilty of this, and I don't think I'd be wrong to assume many others in this thread are as well. It's natural to want to create an expansive, interesting setting to draw in the reader, but if you're at all like me, you fall back on the same old tropes in lieu of creating a story to go with this new world. That isn't to say Pratchett's perfect, of course. A few years ago I put down The Colour of Magic because it bored me, and I really only got into his work once I got the audiobooks to listen to at work -- Nigel Planer's fantastic performance was a huge boost, I think. It hurt when I found out Pratchett had recently passed away -- I feel like I'd missed out on something great. Also of note, I found out that Robert Lynn Asprin -- my late father's favorite author, writer of the Myth Adventures series -- passed away reading a Terry Pratchett book.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:17
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Screaming Idiot posted:A lot of stories try to show massive, detailed settings that have jack to do with what's going on; they spend pages upon pages building up this huge, fantastical world only to tell a the same stories everyone's heard before. I know I'm guilty of this, and I don't think I'd be wrong to assume many others in this thread are as well. It's natural to want to create an expansive, interesting setting to draw in the reader, but if you're at all like me, you fall back on the same old tropes in lieu of creating a story to go with this new world. I'm a big fan of the total opposite, drip-feeding relevant background and setting and letting the rest just speak for itself through the observations and voices of the characters. Some of my favourite science fiction doesn't ever need to explain anything, it just sticks to the characters like glue and only contextualizes when the reader needs it to make sense of the characters' actions. Even better than that is something perhaps best referred to as minimalist exposition, when an author simply drops in a term or idea and lets context do all the work, sometimes leaving gaps or room for the reader to wonder, which works extremely well in certain kinds of stories. I wound up trying to do a variant of this for years without realising it at first, trying to write 'urban fantasy' but without any explanations or standard ISO compliant fantasy creatures or secret societies or really anything except the characters and their perceptions. But this is all personal taste. Pratchett is a master of the opposite technique, and despite my usual distaste for it I love his books. I think pulling it off requires exactly the matching of setting and story you mentioned.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:07
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I'm trying to cut back on the unnecessary details myself -- thanks Thunderdome! -- but some writers like Pratchett can make overwhelming detail work. For example, I constantly fought the urge to skip past the excessive descriptions of the Wyrmburg in The Color of Magic, but those descriptions paid off -- Pratchett used every set piece to great effect. I don't think I could ever pull that off, though. To use an awful architectural metaphor, I need to focus less on what color to make the drapes and more on making sure the house has four walls and a roof.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:18
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Ancient Blades posted:frig frig frig i tried to ninja edit because somehow there was an extra space between one of the lines after i copy pasted it Interesting....
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Mar 22, 2015 21:39
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mhm it was extreme autism i just couldnt deal with that extra line (between separate paragraphs too) messing me up. i looked over that story a bunch of times before submitting it and just wanted it to look nice i guess ill happily accept any fallout
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Mar 22, 2015 21:48
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Ancient Blades posted:ill happily accept any fallout I'd prefer you accept it by cringing miserably
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Mar 22, 2015 22:03
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oh overlords i prostrate myself before you any misery you might inflict on me would be an improvement to my wretched existence is there like some sort of flash test i can do to prove myself
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Mar 22, 2015 22:13
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Ancient Blades posted:oh overlords i prostrate myself before you any misery you might inflict on me would be an improvement to my wretched existence ssssh don't talk any more he's trying to trick you (actually serious)
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Mar 22, 2015 22:54
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sebmojo posted:ssssh don't talk any more he's trying to trick you (actually serious)
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Mar 22, 2015 23:49
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from now on pretend i emptyquote everything sebmojo ever posts so I don't even have to hit the button thanks everyone
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Mar 22, 2015 23:49
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if you flash me now i can get it done by midnight tense trouble :/ im gonna learn from this. two dumb stories and i still wont be critted take the moon fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 23:54
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Screaming Idiot posted:Recently I picked up the Discworld series on audiobook, and I'm simply struck by how beautifully Pratchett ties his setting in with the story. He goes on for pages about the Discworld and its cosmology, and he manages to keep it somewhat interesting and -- this is what hooks me -- pertinent to the narrative. I'm reading Stephen King's 'Salem's Lot' for the first time and King does a very similar thing to the town in that it's very much a living entity. It's writing to a theme, so while he's actually describing the town and where these people live, he's also including the idea that it's very much part of the story. Not once does it feel like a distraction and it goes way beyond just trying to set a scene. It's kind of amazing what early King was able to do, the man was on fire during that time.
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Mar 23, 2015 13:28
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sorry for the drama guys. ill toxx this week
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Mar 23, 2015 18:26
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spectres of autism posted:sorry for the drama guys. ill toxx this week You're doing fine, dude. PM me if you want to talk about your stories or anything.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:23
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Maugrim made it clear to me that my narrative choice of a newspaper article sucked the drama out a huge explosion. I chose the style because it's an economical one and I thought it would've compensated for the low word count. It did but not in the way I expected Any tips on how to adapt the style in the future?
Benny the Snake fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 02:31
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DrVenkman posted:I'm reading Stephen King's 'Salem's Lot' for the first time and King does a very similar thing to the town in that it's very much a living entity. It's writing to a theme, so while he's actually describing the town and where these people live, he's also including the idea that it's very much part of the story. Not once does it feel like a distraction and it goes way beyond just trying to set a scene. It's kind of amazing what early King was able to do, the man was on fire during that time. Stephen King's older work was amazing. Sure, it wasn't great literature by any means -- the man himself once called his work the Big Mac and fries of his genre -- but it was compelling, it was visceral, and it was true. He may have been bloody-nosed and pill-fed to the gates of hell and back, but by god it made his stuff stand out. He may have saved his life by cleaning up -- and good for him for that -- but his work became a shadow of its former self, and the Dark Tower series took a nosedive from a decent, off-beat play on traditional fantasy writing into "what the gently caress is this garbage, why are Doombots throwing Golden Snitches at Roland" territory. ....actually, having re-read that previous, did King really clean up his act, or did that van drive him back into the loving arms of self-medication?
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Mar 24, 2015 02:34
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Benny the Snake posted:Maugrim made it clear to me that my narrative choice of a newspaper article sucked the drama out a huge explosion. I chose the style because it's an economical one and I thought it would've compensated for the low word count. It did but not in the way I expected i think to do a newspaper article effectively it requires you to be really clever and know a lot of why stories are interesting. When you write in that specific way, you limit yourself highly, since it takes away the agency of the situation and makes it hard for the readers to view the mindset of the characters. We're stuck with the facts, and descriptions are usually left at a minimum in a newspaper article, so you either go two ways - something that is boring but authentically like a newspaper, or add in things that are not in a newspaper, but if your doing that, then why the gently caress are you writing it as if its a newspaper. In short, don't do that and write normally. It may seem like a neat thing to do but 99% of the time it will fail. If you want to say more with less, then read and write more in that style. Dont do gimmicks. Now that that's out of the way, gimmicks can work, but with a huge caveat: you have to be super loving good at writing. I remember reading a short story that was an acknowledgements page for a book or something, and it was very clever in how it told the story. However, i would never be able to write anything as compelling as that, nor do i think that story was particularly good. It was the gimmick that was interesting. Maybe, once you improve your writing and start feeling like you can limit yourself and write a compelling story, then go for it. But right now, work on improving the basics. That's what I'm trying to do, and i think that's what you should do too.
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Mar 24, 2015 04:18
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thunderdome has taught me that no one will like gimmicks or get subtle twists.
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Mar 24, 2015 04:41
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