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Glockenapfel posted:I like the fact that he was willing to do homework that helps out newer and lazier players like me. The results are fairly inconclusive, but the willingness to do it is towny I think. ..and the added support doesn't ring true which is why I voted him. He isn't saying what you're saying - he's saying that QPQ is town because he is 'willing to do homework'. The willingness to put in effort does not make someone town.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:00
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merk posted:He thought QPQ was town because 'that post was awesome.' I was mining out what that meant... because that means nothing. he told what it means when you asked: Glockenapfel posted:I like the fact that he was willing to do homework that helps out newer and lazier players like me. The results are fairly inconclusive, but the willingness to do it is towny I think. Additionally, your case is: merk posted:I don't really agree that you can glean anything about QPQ's alignment from the effort he put in because the effort goes nowhere. I think you made this up. But now you say it's because they're saying meaningless things. Which is it? Do you think Glock is saying meaningless words, or reading into things that aren't there in a scummy way? And for the third time: The post I just quoted says that it's reading into effort for alignment and I just asked you a question about why that's wrong when it's accompanied with content and an analysis of motivation.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:01
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CCKeane posted:Real chat: how is not voting the claimed 3p not the immediate move here? Do we have an actual claimed 3p? I think I missed that.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:02
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Ernie. posted:And for the third time: The post I just quoted says that it's reading into effort for alignment and I just asked you a question about why that's wrong when it's accompanied with content and an analysis of motivation. Reading effort for alignment is wrong, especially when you agree that the effort went nowhere. That's my case.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:05
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Glockenapfel posted:I like the fact that he was willing to do homework that helps out newer and lazier players like me. The results are fairly inconclusive, but the willingness to do it is towny I think. Read this post again, Ernie. This isn't a 'effort + content' justification that you're trying to say it is. This is 'effort = town, even when effort is inconclusive'. That's not indicative of town, and it looks like a made up explanation to his town read.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:07
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merk posted:Where has he seemed earnest? merk posted:Where has he seemed earnest? He nailed Ernie right away on using a claim from another game and followed that line of thought through into considering the interactions around Ernie. And he seems to be actively scumhunting. I also noticed in looking back briefly that CPig was the third vote on Ernie. That makes him look worse to me. ##vote CPig Merk, what do you think of Quandry's defense of me? You only commented on Ernie's. (I think Quandry's is more scummy.) Also this is a PSA - I am actually sick as a sick dog and going back to sleep now for the next 3 days or a week. I've asked Ecco for a replacement since I won't be around for lynch. This is my last flurry of contribution, so enjoy it!
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Mar 23, 2015 19:11
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Glockenapfel posted:I also noticed in looking back briefly that CPig was the third vote on Ernie. That makes him look worse to me. For the record, this is the core of my argument against CPig. If his motivation was 'to help ernie's gambit' then he wouldn't have been the third vote (2 votes is already enough information). All his vote did was add momentum, and CPig is a player who even though he doesn't admit it, plays with momentum a lot some times leaving his vote on players for days on end.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:13
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merk posted:It is, but Ernie's whiteknighting I think is scummy and don't want that to get missed. Ernie's posting doesn't strike me as particularly egregious, but I can understand that approach. I am not planning on moving my vote, however.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:15
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This whole "made up explanation" thing of Merk's is really bizarre and makes me want to vote him. Seems like an easy thing for scum to say. Anyway, thoughts are hard. Bye.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:15
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CCKeane posted:I am not planning on moving my vote, however. what?
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Mar 23, 2015 19:17
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Glockenapfel posted:He nailed Ernie right away on using a claim from another game and followed that line of thought through into considering the interactions around Ernie. And he seems to be actively scumhunting. Quandary's didn't jump out at me when I read it, but you're right. I think saying less about why you're townie is probably worse than Ernie trying to actually dive into the argument, and it looks like Ernie and I might just disagree about a general mafia thing here. I'm going to go back to numerrik. I think Quandary is my #2. I'm going to punt on making an Ernie read now that I thought about it more. I'm also punting on a read of you. ##vote numerrik
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Mar 23, 2015 19:17
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Glockenapfel posted:This whole "made up explanation" thing of Merk's is really bizarre and makes me want to vote him. Seems like an easy thing for scum to say. If you have never played with me before, this is how I scum hunt. I solely look for fake content. The only difference between scum and town is that scum need to look like you're trying to find scum whereas town actually are trying to find scum. That difference means that scum must produce fake content whereas town produce genuine content. I will jam every read I have into some sort of 'fake,' 'made up,' or whatever label feels appropriate.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:19
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I feel like Merk took a long time to reach an obvious conclusion.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:30
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FYI, my laptop is temporarily out of commission, so my posts my seem a little more informal than they typically are.merk posted:I don't really agree that you can glean anything about QPQ's alignment from the effort he put in because the effort goes nowhere. I think you made this up. How exactly is Glock making things up? I can understand your objections with my post, but I am not sure how Glock is being deceitful. What do you think he is trying to accomplish, exactly? Comes off as an easy attack against someone who can't defend themselves. Glock reads like every newbie town player that has ever existed. merk posted:Oh, a third party claim: ##unvote; ##vote numerrik merk posted:Quandary's didn't jump out at me when I read it, but you're right. I think saying less about why you're townie is probably worse than Ernie trying to actually dive into the argument, and it looks like Ernie and I might just disagree about a general mafia thing here. merk, real question: Are you scum in this game? I don't see anything here except an attempt to make an easy lynch against a bad, possibly new player. Your last post is just a mishmash of general thoughts that doesn't correlate with your vote at all. The white knight accusation is weak and disingenuous. What exactly does that mean? It is more an attack on the person than a critique of their actions. I am getting all sorts of bad vibes out of it. ##unvote, ##vote:merk
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Mar 23, 2015 19:36
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No, I'm not scum this game. People can stop asking me if I'm scum in a game; it's happened in the last four games, one of which I was scum in! What is disingenuous about my casework here? I'm trying to mine additional content out of little content, and I made alignment conclusions on said content. For example, what do you not like about my Quandary read?
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Mar 23, 2015 19:40
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Ernie. posted:what? That ##vote:numerrik I had, obviously.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:41
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QuoProQuid posted:The white knight accusation is weak and disingenuous. What exactly does that mean? It is more an attack on the person than a critique of their actions. I am getting all sorts of bad vibes out of it. It means a scum player came in and saw an opportunity to look town by defending someone. Usually the person being defended is town in this hypothetical but not always. Why is that an attack on a person? I don't understand what you're even saying here.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:42
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Accusing Ernie of White-Knighting Glock is obviously wrong, but what's more wrong is that merk is spinning that he was pressuring Glock. Merk undercut his own momentum by stopping to vote Numerrik immediately afterwards. Rambling about his own meta when questioned isn't a good response.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:45
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Somberbrero posted:Accusing Ernie of White-Knighting Glock is obviously wrong, but what's more wrong is that merk is spinning that he was pressuring Glock. Merk undercut his own momentum by stopping to vote Numerrik immediately afterwards. Rambling about his own meta when questioned isn't a good response. I don't really see how voting for a claimed third party undercuts my momentum on Glock. I still expected a response from Glock and got one.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:48
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merk posted:I don't really see how voting for a claimed third party undercuts my momentum on Glock. I still expected a response from Glock and got one. Why not just wait for Glock's response and vote Numerrik later? It's also weird that you didn't see Numerrik's post. He claimed at 10:34 and you responded to the thread at 14:46. Most of the posts immediately after his were talking about the claim.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:52
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Somberbrero posted:Why not just wait for Glock's response and vote Numerrik later? I hit quote on Glock's post when I saw it. You're grasping at straws to justify a gut read though, so I kind of think you look townie for this line of discussion.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:53
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Town aligned elite bodyguard
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Mar 23, 2015 19:53
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Glockenapfel posted:Why would you claim this now? Casing me because I was the second vote on someone? Thats a bit of a stretch. I do believe merk is on to something here. ##vote glock also merk isnt scum this game. kthx.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:55
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merk posted:I hit quote on Glock's post when I saw it. You're deflecting by responding to the weaker point.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:55
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numerrik posted:Town aligned elite bodyguard Okay but what is your win condition?
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Mar 23, 2015 19:56
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numerrik posted:Town aligned elite bodyguard you are amazing i feel like i'm band class and you're the one kid a whole bar off
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Mar 23, 2015 19:56
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Aren't there three red flags in four words in "town aligned elite bodyguard"  ##vote numerrik
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Mar 23, 2015 19:57
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merk posted:No, I'm not scum this game. People can stop asking me if I'm scum in a game; it's happened in the last four games, one of which I was scum in! i thought i would ask politely, merk!!! I wait with secret hopes that one day, someone will tell me that they are, in fact, scum. As for your case work, it looks like deliberate misreadings of both Glock and Ernie. Nothing about Glock reads as particularly untrue when compared to other town players. His post is not terribly thought through, but nothing about it is necessarily scummy. Have you never encountered a town player that likes evidence of effort? As for Ernie, you accuse him of being a white knight after he indicates some holes in your attack. I can understand your unhappiness if you were just trying to needle Glock, looking for reactions, but your focus suddenly shifts toward Ernie for "white knighting." Are we going to consider an attack on every bad case "white knighting" now? Your accusation is disingenuous because it doesn't actually address Ernie's concerns. It's just name-calling, and the sudden posting of it in response comes off as awkward. Somberbrero posted:Accusing Ernie of White-Knighting Glock is obviously wrong, but what's more wrong is that merk is spinning that he was pressuring Glock. Merk undercut his own momentum by stopping to vote Numerrik immediately afterwards. Rambling about his own meta when questioned isn't a good response. I agree with this as well. Your last few series of posts is just throwing spaghetti at the walls. There's no focus. You flip suddenly between Glock, Ernie, and Numerik for poorly explained reasons.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:01
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Somberbrero posted:You're deflecting by responding to the weaker point. I disagree with any strategy that requires me to wait. I vote for whatever I think is right whenever I think it is right.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:01
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QuoProQuid posted:It's just name-calling Huh? Whiteknighting is not a name call. It's a label for his play. It's what he was doing.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:02
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numerrik posted:Town aligned elite bodyguard oh my god. i actually need to sit down for a second.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:02
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I feel like Ecco games come with vigs a lot. Can we get a vig?
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Mar 23, 2015 20:03
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merk posted:Huh? 1.) You make a bad argument. 2.) Ernie points out that you made a bad argument. 3.) Suddenly you run in screaming that Ernie is a white knight. You don't actually address whether his points are wrong until 4-5 posts later. It's a weird kneejerk reaction and poorly explained.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:11
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Somberbrero posted:I'm confused by the whole exchange. Glocknapfel was putting forward straightforward if naive thoughts. I thought Merk was just pushing pressure on Glock to see how he'd react, so I'm surprised he dropped it immediately. It seems like the smart play would have been to wait until Glock responded and vote Numerrik later. Scum post ##unvote ##vote Somber
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Mar 23, 2015 20:13
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Pinterest Mom posted:Aren't there three red flags in four words in "town aligned elite bodyguard" ????
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Mar 23, 2015 20:13
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that's not the town alignment name revolutionaries don't have elite bodyguards, kings do bodyguards don't seek out and kill people
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Mar 23, 2015 20:16
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Everyone voting numerik right now should feel dirty and ashamed.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:17
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Pinterest Mom posted:that's not the town alignment name Another scum post. I am a townie. My PM literally describes me as town-aligned.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:17
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Pinterest Mom posted:that's not the town alignment name 1 and 2 are wrong? is ecco trolling us?
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Mar 23, 2015 20:18
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Pinterest Mom posted:that's not the town alignment name Isn't bodyguard a perfectly acceptable town role?
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Mar 23, 2015 20:19
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