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Magnusth
Sep 25, 2014

Hello, Creature! Do You Despise Goat Hating Fascists? So Do We! Join Us at Paradise Lost!


Let's dive right in with the two games i'll be GMing this year. These are on the humorous and narrative side, not the cry in a group side of things.

The first game I'll be GMing is Staniol og fordomme which translates to Tinfoil and Prejudices

It starts with the Foromtale, a kind of preview on the scenario. It's the same information you get when you're choosing which games you want to play at signup. There's a two paragraph intro fiction from the point of view of a young father who hasn't gotten enough sleep and his judgement of people around him. Slightly funny.
Then it lays out the basic premise of the game: you're playing Joe averages in a supermarket, and you'll be telling stories about you and the others based on the characters' appearances, with a simple card-based mechanic. Then it has the exptected playtime (1.5 hours), and amount of players (3) along with the player time and gamemaster type.
As i said, every game has this information and it's what you base your choices on. The things of interest here are that the player-type is someone who likes to create narratives, and doesn't mind exploring prejudices, and that the GM is just supposed to play the game and then play along on the same terms as everyone else; i.e. it's basically GM-less.
I'm not exactly sure why this preview is in here; if i have the scenario available, I've already chosen to GM it, and the scenario is only 5 pages long, so it doesn't exactly need a lengthy introduction.

Next is an introduction to the game mechanics and the mechanics document.
There are two kinds of cards in the game, blue carts (with drawings of people) and red cards (With pictures of things). It then explains that the game will run over two rounds, and that it will center around telling small, individual in-the-moment stories, with no scenes played out in the classic scenes. You're allowed to reference each other's stories, but you aren't supposed to create some big overarching story or anything. Again, this feels sort of superfluous

Then there's setup.
First, it suggested that you chose a small table so you can more easily see each other's cards. Fair enough, that makes sense. The next step is every player writing down something they might buy in a supermarket and putting away for later. This will be used for the last round, but I'm coming to that later.
Next step, you're supposed to give a short presentation of how the game will progress - two rounds and then an ending, and you bring out the cards and explain those. So far, simple enough.
And then a step i think you guys might find interesting, and a step i wish more games had: Coordination of expectations. Here, you explain the themes and moods of the game: Satire, obviously, and humor. You're supposed to create and paint caricatures, not deep and serious characters, and laughing is encouraged. It also includes the note: "It's probably more funny if it hurts a bit." In short: Laugh at their pain. I can get behind this. And at this point, it should be clear to the players that there will, at no point, be a scene in the classical way, no speaking to each other and interacting in character, just bits of story.
Then there's the Warm-Up. Most every game includes a Warm-Up or an icebreaker sequence, just to get people to talk to each other and get into the mood of the game. In this game, you're supposed to collaboratively describe the supermarket where this game will be happening, called "Brutto" (A pun on a danish supermaket chain called "Netto"). Here, its the GM's job to get everyone talking and ready.
I'm not sure this is the best Warm-Up he could've chosen. There's no obvious hook to get jokes in and the humor rolling, but i suppose it serves its purpose in introducing and preparing the players for the descriptive and narrative elements of the game.

Next, we get the actual "mechanics" of the game such as they are.
First, every player draws a Charecter card and puts it face up on the board. Then he draws 5 items, discarding 2 and keeping three, face down. then a few minutes for each player to concider the kind of person their charecter is and why they have the items in their basket they do. Each card has a number in each end, as well, describing how many of the item he has; 2 or 8 cans or coke, or 1 or 5 packs of condoms, w/e. Then, the round begins. The GM starts, flipping his cards face up so only the propper number can be seen. There's even a neat little illustration:


After this the player left to me tells a prejudice based on what my character looks like and what he has in his basket. Then, it's the next player and so on. The GM isn't supposed to do anything at this stage, except ask leading questions if someone is stuck. When everyone has said something and i feel like it might be finished, i tell the "real" story, and then it's the next chracter. The next round is exactly the same, but with different cards, and at the end, the player whose charecter is being described doesn't get to tell the real story. This is supposed to give some more fustration and some more edge, but i don't really see it.
In the end, for the last round, each person draws the descriptions of the wares we wrote down in the start, at random, and comes with his own prejudices about what sort of person buys that kind of ware, but only if everyone is cool with it. It not, the game ends here.
The last pages are first an overview of how the whole thing will progress, which seems useful, and then the pictures of cards for if we are playing it other places than the con (where they will be pre-printed and given to us.) and drawings of people (same thing). Not much to say about it, but i find it intresting that the overview for coordination of expectations includes "Comedy, not silly," as i think this game would be significantly more funny if it was run with a silly and overblown attitude.

Honestly, I'm surprised this is in the "roleplaying game" category, as fastaval does have a category for that. It's also got very limited interactivity beetween the players; you're not really supposed to comment a whole lot on the other player's prejucides, as they are all in each charecter's head, which also limits the potential for humor a bit i think. Lastly, a few pictures:




What a looker!


This milk understands. This milk knows my paaaaain

Magnusth fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Mar 24, 2015

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Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Plague of Hats posted:

nWoD is much better about it because they had relatively consistent mechanics across the lines, which was almost completely absent from oWoD. People still get tripped up because the games are barely written to interact, but only from a narrative stand point. That's why werewolf briefs in non-Forsaken games are written so shallowly. It's like how they used to do it in oWoD, except not monumentally poo poo. Just, in general, nWoD benefits a lot from the authors thinking this poo poo through at least a little before putting finger to keyboard, even if there's stumbles here and there.

The problem with the oWoD games is that vampire came first and it was written in a vacuum. They had rules for "Lupines" who were basically boogeymen who storytellers used to keep their uppity players in the cities, but Vampire really did not care about how the world came to be before the curse of Cain. Werewolf, Mage, and Demon all have their own creation myths but for the most part they're mutually exclusive. And since Demon came out so late in the World of Darkness' lifetime that the only acknowledgement Werewolf gives them is a Stargazer may have encounter one, once.

The nWoD is better but there's really no reason for Vampires or Werewolves to want to work outside of their circles, at least in first edition. Second Edition Werewolves are encouraged to seek out other supernatural help if it aids in their Siskur-Dah and does not break any of their oaths.

Doodmons
Jan 17, 2009
oWoD's position is "all these games take part in the same universe, but the rules and fluff doesn't let that happen"
nWoD's position is "none of these game take part in the same universe, but the rules and fluff supports it if you want"

That's actually hyperbole and not really that true at all, but it's true that that was the intention for nWoD at least.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
KROMORE



So I get back to Kromore for the final stretch, the fluff chapters, after two weeks of being too sick to write worth a drat, and I immediately wish I was sick for a third week: The fluff chapters are loving awful. And not just the entertaining, Fieldsy kind of awful where every second page is about cocks, but also the sort of terrible editing that makes me wonder if Gene Ray wrote this. Sections will jump from a paragraph about alien invasions to paragraphs about how much of a random planet's surface is covered from water with no warning. Let me quote an example section, just so you can tell I'm not joking:

quote:

Fear of attacking unknown aliens from the worm hole located in the Alpha-1 nebula are often discussed as priority scenarios amongst high ranking galactic commanders in later era time lines.

Riddled with ancient islands and history, the planet Kromore has seen its share of alien visitors for close to ten thousand years. Most of the planets land mass has been either destroyed by nature, war, rebuilt by new nations, or formed into stable living environments.

The planet of Kromore is made up of nearly 40% water.

Much like the rest of the book, terms are thrown about haphazardly and only explained twenty pages down the road, if at all, and often the description completely fails to answer most of the questions you have. I'll try to put some sort of sense to the book's ramblings but it's not easy, so this will probably get a bit incoherent, too.

How the gently caress you pronounce "Жo-Rin."

So anyway, the core of the setting is that the "Жo-Rin" are moustache-twirling evil aliens from an evil galaxy with an evil lich king, and the Tesck(the entirety of their description is "blind and matriarchal," they're blind because they're from a part of space without any light. Really.) are decently-nice Ancient Aliens who, in the face of the Жo-Rin conquering everything they see, evacuate species from their homeworlds and transplant them to others so they can survive. Unfortunately, despite having the capacity for inter-galactic travel(Earth is in this setting and is in a separate galaxy from the planet of Kromore, the Жo-Rin eventually conquer Earth and strip-mine it), they seemingly dump just about every species they rescue on Kromore, which is, in galactic terms, right on the Жo-Rin's doorstep.

quote:

It is believed the Tesck have gathered most of the life forms from the surrounding galaxies to the refugee planet Kromore in hopes of protecting them against the Жo-Rin and their vastly growing control on galactic space.

(The Tescians also apparently suck balls at this "rescuing species"-gig since Kromore has about a half dozen intelligent species, yet there's supposedly a couple hundred other sentient species that the Tescians never bothered to rescue or otherwise work with.)

The Tesck generally gently caress around being useless albeit well-intentioned, then there's the Alliance(largely Kromore) who gently caress around being "good guys" and mostly spend their time getting their rear end kicked, the Prime(Earthling refugees with some other refugee species, none of which we're ever actually told a loving thing about despite their supposedly being huge parts of one of the major factions in the setting) who can actually belt the Жo-Rin but then turn out to be dictatorially-minded and the Жo-Rin themselves who do evil things entirely because they're evil. Once you've read this, you largely understand the "metaplot" of the setting. It's in the specifics that things get really stupid, for instance, the Жo-Rin are a species of galactic conquerors... but a group of Kromorians in the loving middle ages manage to defeat a Жo-Rin settlement attempt and drive them off.

This, coincidentally, also creates vampires when some idiots decide to eat Жo-Rin corpses, these vampires are just generally vampiric(about as generic as imaginable) and get recruited by the Prime as their secret police/special forces when they briefly occupy Kromore. This is a nice arrangement that lasts until the Vampires discover that the Primes, not being total loving idiots, had made special vampire-killing gear in case their cannibalistic allies ever completely lost their poo poo and had to be put down.

quote:

The council discovers the Prime has hidden information about new weaponry equipment specifically designed to kill Vampires. The clash between Vampire and Prime is violent and leads to the fall out between Vampire and Prime overnight. A civil war within Kromore between Vampire and Prime leaves nearly all Vampire extinct in the year 4300 ASC. The small war opens the door for further corruption scandals to unfold within the Prime governments on Kromore.

Inexplicably, killing vampires somehow leaves the Primes open to more corruption than having a secret bunch of bloodsuckers with mind control powers as part of their oganization.


A vampire

And since we're talking about vampires, let's also talk about the H.I.V.E.. Because they're the second secret underground species haunting everyone, basically they're little bugs that mind control people by crawling inside their spine and pretending to be the host for the two to four years until the host curls up and dies, leaving the larvae looking for another host. A brief side trip into H.I.V.E. fluff is one of the first side trips the setting of Kromore does, in the middle of explaining the galaxy's geography, revealing to us that the H.I.V.E. larvae both die rapidly without a host and are capable of just chilling out on an asteroid for years while waiting to crash on a planet where they can infect someone.

quote:

The planet spawns H.I.V.E. regularly, but without host bodies nearly all of the young hive lings die shortly after birth.

...

The home world of the H.I.V.E. is known to harbor massive amounts of young larva H.I.V.E. waiting for passing rocks and ships to latch onto.

(We're also told we can play a H.I.V.E. infectee, which comes with no downsides besides requiring "intense roleplay," and just gives us a grab-bag of expensive abilities for free. We only need to switch bodies every few years.)

Also keep in mind that for every paragraph I'm writing here, the fluff section of Kromore has ten paragraphs about, say, Kromore's moons(one is blue and icy, the other is red and volcano-y), after which we get told that wormholes are dangerous and full of bad aliens, and that Kromore is 40% water and that now the book is going to tell us why the Steampunk poo poo is totally justified and really works!

quote:

Steam transfer technology developed out of the end of the Age of Nations movement when fossil fuels and combustion engines were placed on the side line for a cleaner steam transfer technology.

The process involves tubing shaped in a 2-part cylinder consisting of a primary (tube side) and a secondary loop (shell side) made from special super alloy metal compounds. An exhaust valve is located often on the secondary loop allowing for pressure to release in the event of pressure build up.

Except no, we're not told anything. It winds up for explaining all the steampunk poo poo but then instead just tells us that steampunk stuff requires a cylinder made from special super alloy metal compounds, and that it has a safety valve. Also on Kromore, batteries that are literally just containers full of highly pressurized steam which are, in this setting, more efficient than actual batteries holding an electrical charge. Then, in the usual whiplash fashion, it's a leap into a paragraph about living conditions in modern Kromore, about how they were super cramped, and also about Kromorian identification papers when Kromore was occupied by the Prime. Apparently the Primes, if I'm reading this poo poo right, and I'm not sure anyone can read this right, would blow up Kromorian villages if the "galactic allies"(by which I assume off-world aliens?) of Kromore did not apply for Kromorian citizenship.

...and then we reach the actual Timeline for everything, way after all these loving incidental facts.

Timeline

The timeline is just so dull, it's literally an incredibly dispassionate recital of everyone who was ever at war with anyone, and when they were at war with them, and the occasional anomalous event thrown in. Like, a giant comet hits Kromore's moon and plunges the world into a hundred years of darkness, but that just sort of passes and the only real upset is that people get very angry at wizards afterwards for no real loving reason, when they never had any problems with wizards before and wizards were completely unconnected to causing this. After the darkness passes, the Kromorians spend 450 years murdering the Жo-Rin who'd tried to settle their planet. This apparently happens well before the invention of the printing press, so I can only assume that these DANGEROUS GALACTIC CONQUERORS were literally defeated by swords, bows and maybe some primitive gunpowder weapons, especially since magic is still basically banned and no one's using it.

Like, this is roughly some 6000 years of history and the only noteworthy thing is the comet, the Tesck dropping off more loser species on Kromore and a bunch of savages with sticks beating up an alien species with plasma guns. Everything else is really just some permutation on "and then these guys invaded those guys and some other dudes were angry." It doesn't help that half this poo poo is never explained, like the STEAM METAL MEN destroy a nation by using nerve gas and the S-BOMB. What's the loving S-Bomb? It's never been mentioned before, it's not in the armory section, it's nowhere else in the loving document. Is it the STEAM BOMB? Did they parboil an entire loving nation? What? Explain yourself to me, Kromore, you piece of poo poo.

Also now the Tesck show up and just hand over technology to people, but apparently don't seem to give a poo poo about all the warring and killing, and they're kind of absentee-parents considering they weren't around to give a loving hand with clearing out the Жo-Rin or helping anyone when the planet had a hundred years without light. Somehow, floating cities are constructed before computers, not like you'd want anything to help you with all the calculations necessary to keep a loving city afloat by whatever means you intend. Also for some reason the planet has an organized rebellion terrified of nuclear steam power(same as normal steam power, but now the STEAM BATTERIES are "charged" by nuclear reactors) and computers, also exploring space is now apparently commonplace without any mentions of space programs being initiated and the METAL MEN decide to all throw themselves into a black hole. A mysterious black hole.

It's almost a footnote that the Жo-Rin just wade in and conquer Kromore, the core location of the setting. It gets literally as much text as some minor trade treaty does earlier. Then in as much of a footnote, the Prime are introduced, showing up and saving Kromore from the Жo-Rin. They're described as "tyrannical," but this is rarely explained, except that they hate wizards and force everyone to carry an ID card. There are no great racial purges or abusive laws passed that the book ever tells us about, I guess we're just supposed to insert our own villainy for them. The metal men show up again, blow up the Tesck homeworld, turn out to have an evil virus corrupting their brains, fight everyone, get cured and then a paragraph later they jump into the black hole once more. 800 years pass without anything happening, one of the moons of Kromore turns into a pure dark void, swallowing anything that touches it, is designated a no-fly zone by the Prime, and then in the next paragraph we're told that mining on the moon(which was just a paragraph ago an all-destroying forbidden area) has unearthed a new horrific menace called the Leech.

Also the book keeps using "empirical" instead of "imperial" and it's annoying me way more than it should.

Two paragraphs ago, the Leech are described as "devouring" Жo-Rin ships alongside everyone else's, but now we're told that they're encountering the Жo-Rin for the first time and the two just casually form a symbiotic bond to become an entirely new species. The metal men return after 1600 years of being in a black hole and, despite being literally over a millennium and a half out of date, technologically, are totally helpful to the good guys by blowing up some Жo-Rin. At this point the fighting with the Жo-Rin is over 2500 years old and literally the only noteworthy thing they've done is to occupy Kromore for half a decade before the Prime booted them.

Congratulations, you're now caught up on all the notable points of Kromorian history. I.e. literally loving nothing except that magic is now banned and we have space travel, compared to the start of the setting.

What remains of the book is mostly trivia, first there are the stats for Жo-Rin, Ancients(which can apparently just casually eat suns, why even stat something that powerful?), enemy Ferrians, enemy Gyx, enemy Zatilok(hidden deep inside a bunch of fluff rather than being with the other enemy stats), enemy vampires(the only enemies to get more than one type of stats, to account for different tiers of stats, apparently every enemy Ferrian is level 10) and enemy shadow demons(but no stats for Tesck, who only get a description, Metal Men, or so many other things we've been told exist). Next up, there's a bunch of forgettable data that largely amounts to telling us what sort of exports the various nations have during various time periods, practically nothing of any real consequence unless you really need to know that the Kingdom of Kelmoria was big on exporting hammers. There are the major religions, all of which have existed unchanged from the start point of the setting's history and then 10,000 years onwards... and that's the loving book, really.

It doesn't make for an entertaining review despite being a frustrating read, because so many of the stupid, frustrating things are in the editing, and it's hard to really convey just how much it overreaches itself in trying to have TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF HISTORY and then devoting maybe five lines to loving two thousand years of said history. And a major event like an entire species, the Metal Men, having their brains corrupted, and whatever it takes to uncorrupt them, taking up a grand total of half a page. The quest to cure an entire loving species of a corrupting infection takes up less space than what was spent at the start of the book to tell us how to effectively railroad our players.

gently caress this book. But great news, someone else got me a new piece of poo poo to review. Whee.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


How absolutely stunning that Kromore turns out to be the wrong choice to stage every single one of this thread's suggestions. I truly am very deeply surprised and offended this trash game which claimed the moon and the stars instead delivered a trickle of poo poo.

PurpleXVI posted:

KROMORE

It doesn't make for an entertaining review despite being a frustrating read, because so many of the stupid, frustrating things are in the editing, and it's hard to really convey just how much it overreaches itself in trying to have TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF HISTORY and then devoting maybe five lines to loving two thousand years of said history. And a major event like an entire species, the Metal Men, having their brains corrupted, and whatever it takes to uncorrupt them, taking up a grand total of half a page. The quest to cure an entire loving species of a corrupting infection takes up less space than what was spent at the start of the book to tell us how to effectively railroad our players.

But if they bothered to make their setting and history interesting and coherent in the first place we wouldn't need to buy the KROMORE setting book now would we?

Hypnobeard
Sep 15, 2004

Obey the Beard



Whitehack

Whitehack is an OSR-inspired RPG by Christian Mehrstam. It's very simple, with generally "roll high under" mechanics. It draws heavily from the original D&D booklets--there's only three character classes, very few numbers to define a character (compared to, say, later editions of D&D), and a general emphasis on GM rulings with guidance from the rules.

That said, it's got a lot of "storygame" influence, and the result is a compact, playable, and flexible game that should be on your game shelf.

For more info, please check out the game's website: https://whitehackrpg.wordpress.com/

Whitehack is very minimal in presentation: there's no art and the text is a simple two-column layout (with the exception of tables). This is actually pretty refreshing, and since it's not a huge tome (like, say, Mythus), so the solid text doesn't make your eyes glaze over. The font is readable and clear, and there's an index.



I'll be reviewing the 2nd edition Standard Version here; there's also a 2nd edition Notebook Version, which is just the 64-page Standard Edition with 128 mostly blank pages (there's small faint dots as guidance for writing or drawing) in the back for your campaign/game notes. The 1e is also good, but the 2e is the one I'd recommend for anyone just looking into it. The website has a complete list of the differences on the FAQ page, but in general there's not a huge difference between them. It's a refinement, not a 2e->3e D&D replacement.

Whitehack's dice requirements are pretty minimal; 3d6 and a pair of d20s are all you need. Rolls are generally a d20 roll. The only wrinkles are "positive or negative double rolls," which are basically advantage/disadvantage from 5e D&D: roll 2d20, take the higher or lower result depending on whether it's a positive or negative double roll. Generally you want to roll as high as possible while being equal to or under whatever the target is.

Character Creation

Character creation is very straightforward and speedy. Characters have the standard six attributes, rolled with 3d6. There's no ability modifiers, though high ability scores can provide extra benefits. The Strong character class, for example, gets a bonus in melee from a high strength. Characters get a point to raise an ability score every other level, so there's some room for advancement. Poor stats (5 or under) give the character more Groups (see below).

Max level in Whitehack is 10, though there are some rules for progressing beyond this, which I'll cover when we get to them in the Referee's section.

There are three basic character classes: Deft, Strong, and Wise. This lines up roughly with Thief, Warrior, and Magical, though there's some variation in that. Character class determines the amount of experience you need to advance (Deft needs least, then Strong, then Wise), Attack Value (AV; your basic to-hit target), Hit Dice (HD; always d6--all dice are rerolled each level and you keep the higher), Saving Throw (ST; a general "avoid bad stuff" target number--Deft is the highest, then Wise, then Strong), Slots (which are special class-related abilities), and Groups (which combine skills, race, professions, etc into one catchall).

Deft: "Deft characters rely on superior technique and skills honed to perfection." The Deft class encompasses thieves, rangers, assassins, monks, spies, and marksmen. They pick a "vocation" (a type of Group) at level 1, and whenever they're properly equipped and doing something that's related to the vocation, they use a positive double roll for it. In addition, this vocation is just noted generally for the character, and is not attached specifically to an attribute.

A short digression: Groups are attached to one or more attributes. When a test is called for against that attribute, if the Group attached relates to whatever is being attempted, there's a bonus on the test. If it would require training to complete, a relevant attached Group means the character's trained in it and can attempt the roll; sometimes this means you make a positive double roll instead of a regular d20 check.

Deft characters have their vocation potentially apply to ALL tests, if they can come to an agreement with the GM about whether it applies. (This is a recurring theme--you're encouraged to discuss things with your GM and work out whether something applies to a given test or not; GMs are encouraged to be lenient with this.) The Deft also can attune themselves to objects, animals, or other skilled people. They pick something to be attuned to and then they can use that item in creative ways: hard tasks succeed automatically, and nearly impossible tasks require standard tests. So this is how you'd model a monk's staff ability: they're attuned to their staff, and thus can do things like knock arrows out of the air, throw the staff like a missile, use it to vault a wall--whatever the GM and player can come up with and agree on.

Deft start with 1 attunement and get up to 4 at 10th level. For every "active" attunement, they can have 1 "inactive;" switching them takes a day of practice.

Deft are limited to lighter armor and no shields.

Strong: "Strong characters rely on their melee combat skills combined with bodily strength." These are your fighter-types, pure though not necessarily simple.

If they put an enemy down, they get a cleave attack against another enemy. They get more HP than the other classes--topping out at 10 HD rather than 6 or 7--but their ST lag a bit. AV is also higher than the other two, and they have access to special melee options. There are 8 options listed, and the character will eventually have access to four of them. These options are:
  • Give up all actions, but redirect all attacks on an adjacent character to themselves.
  • After a successful attack, push an opponent back 10'.
  • When fighting Huge opponents (like dragons or giants), the Strong can get onto the monster with a successful Dex test, which gives double Combat advantage (+4 AV and damage) as long as they hang on.
  • Battle frenzy, which gives them +2 AV and damage but a -3 AC, and they're berserk (have to make a save at the end of combat or keep attacking).
  • Give an ally a +4 AV bonus once a battle.
  • Encourage nearby friends (+1 AV and ST) or put the fear into enemies (-1 AV and ST).
  • Stand still and make a one-handed melee and one-handed ranged attack in the same round.
  • Parry for 1-3 rounds, and if they don't take any damage, get up to triple advantage (+6 AV and damage) when they do attack.

In addition, they can "hold" a single power from a defeated enemy--this literally means they pull a power from the monster's description and can use it a number of times equal to their level. They have to have dealt the killing blow, and can be used in whatever manner the player and GM can agree on. This ability can be freely exchanged if a new enemy is killed.

Strong characters also get some melee AV bonuses from strength, and can make a number of "free attacks" (think opportunity attacks from 3e) equal to their level--other classes/monsters can only make one such free attack a round.

Wise: "Wise characters have an exceptional aptitude for tasks that require a strong or agile mind." These are the magical folks, who use "magic." This could be a cleric's prayers, a wizard's spells, a summoner's familiars, etc. Wise get a number of active "miracles" equal to their slots (so 1 at 1st level and 5 at 10th), and an equal number of inactive miracles. Again it's a day to swap them.

Miracles are broadly defined powers--examples given are "telekinesis," "banish undead," "fist of the god," etc. The player uses the miracle by describing what he's trying to do to the GM, and how the power applies. The GM will then decide on a HP cost for the miracle (from 1-14), the two then negotiate--perhaps the miracle takes longer to use, but it costs less HP. Imagination's the limit for this. The Wise can't go to negative HP from this cost, though they can go to 0 and knock themselves out. More powerful effects may also require a ST test, which makes the miracle fizzle if it fails. On a natural 20, the character immediately drops to 0 HP and the miracle misfires catastrophically.

Wise characters heal twice as fast as the other character classes, but they don't get any benefit from magical or assisted healing. Wearing armor heavier than leather makes miracles cost double.

Groups

Groups in Whitehack are a catch-all for skills, contacts, and information that a character possesses. There's three different kind of Groups: Species, Vocations, and Affiliations.

When you pick a Group, it's generally assigned to a specific attribute (unless you're Deft). From then on, it only applies to tests that involve that attribute and can be related to whatever the Group covers--but when it applies, you get a double positive roll. Every time you level up, you can shift a group to a different attribute; you'll also acquire new Groups as you level.

Note that Groups are just things that have mechanical significance. If you pick Dwarf as a Species Group, for example, it just means that you're specifically emphasizing that part of the character--you embody the characteristics of that Group really hard. You can be a dwarf, but it doesn't have a mechanical impact on the game unless you dedicate a Group to it.

Species Groups are a bit different--it can only be picked at character creation and impacts two attributes. It can also be used positively or negatively--the GM may choose to penalize a dwarf swimming, for example. If you're a "half-elf" or of some other mixed parentage, you can still pick a Species Group, but it only applies to one attribute.

Vocations are basically jobs or titles. Stuff like "wizard," "barbarian," "swine herder"--whatever you want. They're not restricted to a particular class. You can be a Deft wizard, which means you can't cast miracles directly, but you're very knowledge about magic and magical things and practices.

The third type of Group is Affiliations, which is exactly what it looks like: you're associated with a group of some kind. This may provide you with specialty skills ("only the Green Dragon Tong knows how to use explosives") or resources. It can also mean you've got enemies or responsibilities--you and the GM have to work that out. Sometimes it's used for a pseudo-alignment like Law or Chaos.

Equipment

Whitehack uses bog-standard D&D money (gp, sp, cp); the only unusual note in the equipment tables is the inclusion of firearms (they're not horrible--they do comparable or better damage to the crossbow, but they're shorter ranged and take longer to load). All damage uses d6s, topping out at d6+2. Many weapons have special qualities--flails, for example, ignore shields.

AC ranges from 1 (cloth) to 6 (full plate), with a shield adding a +1 to that. Attack rolls are made against your adjusted AV and must be above the target's AC. So if you've got an AV of 15, and you're attacking someone in full plate+shield, you need to roll between 8-15 to actually hit.

And that's character creation.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

PurpleXVI posted:

How the gently caress you pronounce "Жo-Rin."

The Ж is obviously silent.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

If you see a symbol you don't recognize in an otherwise English text, it is a tongue-click, because that is the most entertaining answer.

The same is true for stray apostrophes and exclamation marks.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Doresh posted:

The Ж is obviously silent.

Ж is a Cyrillic letter, so it'd be roughly "Zho-Rin"

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

theironjef posted:

Afterthought 2 - Listener Mail. This week, it's mostly joking and sexism.

I am offended, sir, deeply and nonspecifically offended.

But geez, that brought back a lot of memories of terrible players long-hidden. So many dumbshits I put up with at a young age because I had to. The worst kind of player for me, though, would have to be the obstructionist; somebody who's just hypercautious and will talk down any group plan if it involves any sort of risk, who want a dozen backup plans and secret powers that let them power through or survive anything unforeseen that might come up. It's something I think that afflicts people who have played a lot of D&D but I've also seen it outside of that, and it's completely obnoxious. I'd rather have somebody that looks up from their phone and rolls dice when told than somebody that brings the game to a screeching halt whenever there's a door in front of an unmapped room.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I am offended, sir, deeply and nonspecifically offended.

But geez, that brought back a lot of memories of terrible players long-hidden. So many dumbshits I put up with at a young age because I had to. The worst kind of player for me, though, would have to be the obstructionist; somebody who's just hypercautious and will talk down any group plan if it involves any sort of risk, who want a dozen backup plans and secret powers that let them power through or survive anything unforeseen that might come up. It's something I think that afflicts people who have played a lot of D&D but I've also seen it outside of that, and it's completely obnoxious. I'd rather have somebody that looks up from their phone and rolls dice when told than somebody that brings the game to a screeching halt whenever there's a door in front of an unmapped room.

Yeah, I think we might have to do an episode on the worst kinds of players. The Obstructionist, the Long-Range Planner, the Same Guy Every Time, etc.

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The 16-bit retro-future of crustacean-based transportation
So, uh. Are the intros to these podcasts literally just to troll people? Because I love it. :v:

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

So, uh. Are the intros to these podcasts literally just to troll people? Because I love it. :v:

They are indeed. Each week we aim to tackle a topic that no one wants us to talk about and then succeed by not talking about it.

Spark That Bled
Jan 29, 2010

Hungry for responsibility. Horny for teamwork.

And ready to
BUST A NUT
up in this job!

Skills include:
EIGHT-FOOT VERTICAL LEAP

theironjef posted:

They are indeed. Each week we aim to tackle a topic that no one wants us to talk about and then succeed by not talking about it.

I did get confused for a moment when you began the first Afterthought like that.

So I guess I got trolled, then.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Tolan posted:

Whitehack
Yesssss, I was hoping someone would do this. :dance:

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003

Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.
Unlockable Ben

theironjef posted:

Yeah, I think we might have to do an episode on the worst kinds of players. The Obstructionist, the Long-Range Planner, the Same Guy Every Time, etc.

Anyone want to start that thread?

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

hyphz posted:

Anyone want to start that thread?

I don't think we need a thread to go over bad player archetypes.
We already best/worst experience thread though, and there are two archived worst experience threads as well. Where you'll get all sorts of bad players.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Kurieg posted:

Ж is a Cyrillic letter, so it'd be roughly "Zho-Rin"

I don't expect the writers of Kromore to have done that amount of research. Either way, pretty stupid, like putting a single Kanji in the name of an alien race. Consistency.

devilmaydry
Sep 3, 2012

I only take special jobs, if you know what I mean.

Tolan posted:

Whitehack


This looks interesting! I'm hoping combat and resolution isn't just like the d20 system though, but what I've seen so far looks like something I'd actually want to use.

Hypnobeard
Sep 15, 2004

Obey the Beard



devilmaydry posted:

This looks interesting! I'm hoping combat and resolution isn't just like the d20 system though, but what I've seen so far looks like something I'd actually want to use.

No, it's much closer to the OD&D and B/X stuff than anything else in that regard. You could use a grid for combat (movement is given in feet/round and squares, for example) but the focus is much more on the narrative end of things. The feel is more "if you've got the miniatures, sure, use them" than "we're going to express everything in terms of the grid and then tell you it's optional."

Next post will be more mechanics, since that's what Chapter II is mostly about. Should have a good feel for it then.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Hah, RPGnet thinks System Mastery is all assholes for disliking Stormbringer(really for not having read Elric books). I was wondering when we'd turn up there.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

theironjef posted:


Afterthought 2 - Listener Mail. This week, it's mostly joking and sexism.

Thanks for answering my question! Cheese dudes!

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Thanks for answering my question! Cheese dudes!

You're welcome! We were thrilled to get so many, let us skip thinking of an actual topic.

Also I just checked and Cheese Dude has like no presence on the web as a thing. I was worried it was gonna turn out to be a regional chip brand or the name of Doritos on the Simpsons or something. Man we lucked into it, our Cheese Dude restaurants will be a huge success, serving up piping hot baskets of artisanal cheese dudes.

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


theironjef posted:

Hah, RPGnet thinks System Mastery is all assholes for disliking Stormbringer(really for not having read Elric books). I was wondering when we'd turn up there.

I know when I play a Lord of the Rings-based game, I want it to tell me all about Aragorn and how I can't do the poo poo he did in the books.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Plague of Hats posted:

I know when I play a Lord of the Rings-based game, I want it to tell me all about Aragorn and how I can't do the poo poo he did in the books.

Nice to see you trying to defend us over there, Plague. RPGnet is the "conservative dad" of RPGs and they saw on Glenn Beck how a licensed game being good is determined by if the media it's derived from is any good, and also why the hell are you wearing eyeliner, it's Thanksgiving. Think of your grandma, she didn't survive the Obama death panels to see a boy wearing makeup.

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


I'm throwing you a dollar here or there, so by God I'll raise the banners for this poo poo!

But, really, it's baffling to me that "This poo poo sounds dumb and inaccessible to a newcomer" doesn't come across as a valid criticism. You even laid out the big problem right at the start (after a dick joke). It's one of those little prisons people build for their fun.

EDIT: And, obviously, there's the reasonable possibility that they just don't like your humor or level of negativity. But, that's boring and not really what was said.

That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Mar 26, 2015

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Plague of Hats posted:

I'm throwing you a dollar here or there, so by God I'll raise the banners for this poo poo!

But, really, it's baffling to me that "This poo poo sounds dumb and inaccessible to a newcomer" doesn't come across as a valid criticism. You even laid out the big problem right at the start (after a dick joke). It's one of those little prisons people build for their fun.

I'd be very curious to see if the ardent haters of our review have read what we have. They were mostly talking about the Elric! books that came out after Stormbringer, and occasionally referring to the Stormbringer that was done in conjunction with GW. The book we read was no-bones-about-it garbage right in the rules, and it would have been garbage if it was about Urkel of Monkeybone as well.

Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora
I'm pretty sure most of the people in that thread would proclaim any dice-based horseshit to be amazing if you slap their favorite lovely nerd power fantasy mascot on it.

I've never read an Elric book but it sounds like some teenage wish fulfillment of the highest order. A scrawny, pasty nerd gets kicked out of the cool kids' lunch table for being too whiny, then gets his revenge with a big gun runesword that kills everything in one hit and never misses. That'll show those dumb jocks.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Elric was written as a counter to the Big, Brawny and "Dumb" Barbarians like Conan (who wasn't as much dumb as he was cunning and not booksmart) that was popular at the time, and as ultimately a tragic hero-villain? But a lot of nerds project on him pretty hard.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Robindaybird posted:

Elric was written as a counter to the Big, Brawny and "Dumb" Barbarians like Conan (who wasn't as much dumb as he was cunning and not booksmart) that was popular at the time, and as ultimately a tragic hero-villain? But a lot of nerds project on him pretty hard.

Does his scrawniness ever matter in the novels outside of just in flowery description parts? Like how often is he off his Melnibonean drugs and without his runesword? Because according to the game, those basically turn him right into a whinier Conan anyway.

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


theironjef posted:

Does his scrawniness ever matter in the novels outside of just in flowery description parts? Like how often is he off his Melnibonean drugs and without his runesword? Because according to the game, those basically turn him right into a whinier Conan anyway.

It comes up a few times when he loses access to Stormbringer and he's not on his drugs because, hey, he has Stormbringer, why bother taking that poo poo?

EDIT: His sickliness is really more of a plot driver than a plot point itself. It helps to keep him tied to Stormbringer.

EDIT 2: Really, the stories are perfectly good, with the caveat that they're pulp fiction that's 40-50 years old. No one should be taken to task for not liking half-century old magazine fodder.

That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Mar 26, 2015

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Plague of Hats posted:

It comes up a few times when he loses access to Stormbringer and he's not on his drugs because, hey, he has Stormbringer, why bother taking that poo poo?

EDIT: His sickliness is really more of a plot driver than a plot point itself. It helps to keep him tied to Stormbringer.

To me the fact that he's almost always attached to the Sword of Ignoring Weaknesses means that he's not an answer to the question "What would the anti-Conan look like" but instead "What if Conan was the sword?"

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






The other notable thing about Stormbringer being a cursed runesword is that if it's right and hungry, it will drive him to kill people regardless of whether they were friends or enemies. Thus, in the novels at least, it's a device that pushes Elric towards tragedy (for obvious reasons) and keeps him moving (either because he's killed a whole town or to keep himself from doing just that). That said, Elric RPG sans Elric is still the best way to go for reasons that have already been stated by you guys and others.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
"Conan, what is good in life?"

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear that 'shing!' sound as someone pulls you free of your scabbard."

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The 16-bit retro-future of crustacean-based transportation
I remember reading like, one Elric short story some time in my teens. The rest has just sort of made itself my way by way of pop cultural osmosis, I guess.

I feel like cursed artifacts have been a staple in fiction for a long time, but was the blood-crazed runesword entirely original to that or was it older?

theironjef posted:

Man we lucked into it, our Cheese Dude restaurants will be a huge success, serving up piping hot baskets of artisanal cheese dudes.

Delicious.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

I remember reading like, one Elric short story some time in my teens. The rest has just sort of made itself my way by way of pop cultural osmosis, I guess.

I feel like cursed artifacts have been a staple in fiction for a long time, but was the blood-crazed runesword entirely original to that or was it older?


Delicious.

It's predecessor would be the Tyrfing, a sword in Norse mythology that it would kill a man every time it's drawn and would cause three great evils. Then you have the Muramasa-forged swords which had garner a reputation for seeking out blood.

Selachian
Oct 9, 2012

I yield to no one in Moorcock fannishness (ever read Neil Gaiman's "One Life, Furnished in Early Moorcock"? That's me right there) and even I don't understand why anyone would want to play in the Young Kingdoms without Elric. It's not really THAT amazing or original a fantasy world; if I was gonna adapt any of Moorcock's worlds for gaming, it'd be the future Europe from the Hawkmoon books.

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.
I'm Numanoid (the guy who posted the SM Elric podcast link), and I was honestly surprised by how negative the response was. You're on to something about RPG.net being the community's conservative dad.

On a side note, has anyone suggested Unknown Armies for a podcast yet? It's one of my all-time fav occult horror RPGs, but it's definitely showing its age (Ex. An entire magic school rendered irrelevant by Netflix). There's a new edition supposed to come out this year, so this may be the perfect time to review the old one (I recommend the 2002 edition).

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso

theironjef posted:

Nice to see you trying to defend us over there, Plague. RPGnet is the "conservative dad" of RPGs and they saw on Glenn Beck how a licensed game being good is determined by if the media it's derived from is any good, and also why the hell are you wearing eyeliner, it's Thanksgiving. Think of your grandma, she didn't survive the Obama death panels to see a boy wearing makeup.
In my experience the community itself is fairly liberal, but as far as gaming itself is concerned you can kick up a lot of dust just by saying that someone's favourite game/designer/artist/owlbear is less than holy and perfect. Key example, when Larry Elmore posted a link to his unfunny YouTube series, someone said that it was unfunny, which resulted in a collective tantrum.

BRP is a boring old clunky system. It gets the job done, but I'm bewildered at the idea of anyone being passionate about it.

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PJOmega
May 5, 2009

Simian_Prime posted:

On a side note, has anyone suggested Unknown Armies for a podcast yet? It's one of my all-time fav occult horror RPGs, but it's definitely showing its age (Ex. An entire magic school rendered irrelevant by Netflix). There's a new edition supposed to come out this year, so this may be the perfect time to review the old one (I recommend the 2002 edition).

What school is made irrelevant by Netflix?

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