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The_Doctor posted:For those who have missed this fantastic slice of 70s Space Disco: Almost all of S&S are two and half hours long. It's very atmospheric, but you know you're in trouble when the creator of the show has said "I didn't know what the show was about".
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Mar 29, 2015 17:04
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For a fan in the 90s, the TV movie was huge. I'd started watching on PBS in the 80s, I was already a fan for a few years before it was cancelled in 89, and I'd latched onto the NAs to get my fix. Never dreamed it would come back. In those days before the internet, I remember being shocked they got so much right. Having McCoy back was huge--a massive unspoiled thing I was not expecting. I'd gone into it thinking it would be a pure Americanized reboot that would suck, so my expectations were low. Also think a bit to the bar of 90s genre tv and tv in general and you can see it was actually pretty drat good. They also got a lot of the tropes right: the Police Box, two hearts, Master, Daleks, Time Lords. The half human stuff caused me to sperg a bit, as did the kissing (which seems tame nowadays when the line is so much more blurred on the idea of Doctor/Companion romance). One thing which you don't touch upon in your review is how the TARDIS interior redesign paved the way for the expansive console rooms of the revival. Now we think nothing of it, but it was a big deal at the time. I was a bit put off by it, as I'd expected white roundels and this was Wrong. I'm sure there was much controversy on Usenet or wherever fans spoke online at the time. From hindsight it seems like a correct and wise choice on the part of the producers and set designers to upgrade the interior. At the time I was very disappointed that they didn't bring it back, but when I read about the plans for the Ulysses stuff which would have completely thrown out the old canon, I was glad. I'm always leery of shows and their relationship to canon because of stuff like this: if I invest in a universe and it's history I expect it to be consistent, and the reality is most tv producers don't care. They care more now, as a lot of fans are making shows and the ones that aren't can see the value in retaining fans with proper canon, but 20 years ago not so much. I could countenance the idea that they'd throw out the NAs because of the Roddenberry rule that Books Aren't Canon. But for them to rewrite the history of what we'd seen on the old show for some dumb new mythology rankled me. It's funny, because that aborted series' relation to canon was the polar opposite of the 2005 revival: the former disguised itself at first as a direct continuation, with a clear link to the last Doctor, Daleks, history, etc but over time would have thrown most of that stuff out or ignored it in favor of a true rebooted universe. RTD's show on the other hand came in with no clear links to the old show. It was a long time before we knew onscreen that this was, without a doubt, the same universe and history and not just a reboot which had some of the same tropes.
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Mar 29, 2015 18:00
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The movie also has one of the best DVD commentary tracks (the one with McGann, McCoy and Nick Briggs).
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Mar 29, 2015 18:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:The movie also has one of the best DVD commentary tracks (the one with McGann, McCoy and Nick Briggs). I'll have to track it down it then. Is Anyone familiar with the revisitations boxed sets? Are they anything good? First one seems to include the McGann movie special edition.
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Mar 29, 2015 19:37
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adhuin posted:I'll have to track it down it then. Yeah, they're great! All the original dvd extras, plus a bunch more! Davros1 posted:Almost all of S&S are two and half hours long. It's very atmospheric, but you know you're in trouble when the creator of the show has said "I didn't know what the show was about". My working theory is now that they're Type 103 TARDISes. Sentient, humanoid in appearance, with powers but seemingly lacking in actual nous about humans. The_Doctor fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 20:09
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Oh yeah, the TARDIS interior redesign was incredible - I loved it right from the get-go, though the look of the console itself hasn't aged too well over the last twenty years, the large living space with the comfy chair, shelves of books and old gramophone etc just seemed perfect (could have done without the mantel full of clocks though) and I'm glad the revival appears to have taken some cues in that respect. And yes, the commentary is excellent, McCoy and McGann are lovely. I can't remember if my Special Edition DVD has it or not, but McCoy also filmed a really lovely video diary at the time of filming about saying goodbye to the role of CURRENT Doctor after all these years.
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Mar 29, 2015 22:09
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The irony being that the iconography created for the TV movie (the TARDIS set, the costume, Eight's demeaon) was a perfect holding pattern for everything following that wasn't on the air. It finally loosed any remaining bonds with the dying days of the original series for novels, comics and, eventually, Big Finish. Going with a general historical, timeless feel made for a great holding pattern over the next eight years. McGann, too, always seemed the most timeless of Doctors equally comfortable and confused no matter where he was, a performance he (still) excels at. In a way, we did get the best of both worlds. We may not have gotten the series back, but it made the remaining wilderness years so much more open and friendly than the NA era before it. CobiWann posted:Big Finish came up a LOT. Not only at panels with the actors, but there were a few panels about introducing people to the audios, and Terry Molloy and Nev Fountain had panels about acting and writing for Big Finish. And there was some spirited bar conversation as well between a few of us. Your wife told you to go off and have fun. We took you to an alcohol fueled, IRL version of this thread. I'd call that a job well done.  And Terry Malloy pointed out, a few times, that he hasn't done any Big Finishes for a while. You know, like when a character is set to come back in the main series. Not that he's saying anything specific, of course, why would you infer that? He also said that Davros is coming back in the near future in the main series.
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Mar 29, 2015 22:27
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quote:Your wife told you to go off and have fun. We took you to an alcohol fueled, IRL version of this thread. I'd call that a job well done.  What made this convention so special to me and the family were how INFORMAL the guests were. Nicola Bryant said at the tea this morning that there was a difference between a "small" Who only convention, where actors and actress could spend a bit of time with the guests off-panel and in the bar, and the bigger conventions where it just seems like an assembly line autograph signing. I definitely got the vibe that the guests wanted to be there in large part because of how great the fans are and how enthusiastic Whovians are (along with the paycheck), versus other sci-fi series gatherings where it sometimes comes off like the guests are there solely for a paycheck.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:31
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CobiWann posted:
This is how I felt throughout the entire thing. I was there with my mom, and while there were a few hiccups, especially on day 1 (from what I hear the Hotel was super lovely to the con, and they will be using a different one next year), but everyone was so exceedingly kind and sweet about the whole con. I saw stuff like McCoy pouring a guest a cup of water and one day I had a good 5 minute chat with Patricia Quinn about all sorts of topics. She was so sweet and accommodating my mom was wiping tears out of her eyes after taking a picture with her.
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Mar 30, 2015 03:49
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Astroman posted:if I invest in a universe and it's history I expect it to be consistent am i the only person here who watched the TV Movie when it first aired and didn't give a poo poo about kissing?
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Mar 30, 2015 10:12
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Cerv posted:am i the only person here who watched the TV Movie when it first aired and didn't give a poo poo about kissing? My memory at the time was just in general being confused by it, like it just didn't make any particular sense to me why it would be there at all. The half-human stuff was far more annoying to me.
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Mar 30, 2015 10:16
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Jerusalem posted:My memory at the time was just in general being confused by it, like it just didn't make any particular sense to me why it would be there at all. The half-human stuff was far more annoying to me. makes perfect sense. who wouldn't be kissing P McG given the opportunity?
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Mar 30, 2015 10:19
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Well that is pretty flawless logic, I guess.
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Mar 30, 2015 10:28
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Cerv posted:am i the only person here who watched the TV Movie when it first aired and didn't give a poo poo about kissing? I am King of the Wilderness Years nerds and saw it before it aired. It was released on VHS about 2 weeks before airing in the UK, and I went to HMV in Piccadilly Circus for the midnight sale of it, and got my copy signed by Geoffrey Sax, the director. I was 3rd in the queue. Jesus, I was 15. I got home, watched it all before falling asleep. Watched about half of it again when I woke up, and then went to school very tired, but super excited to tell my two other friends who liked Who all about it. I may have jumped a little in telling them. I didn't give a poo poo about the kissing either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1x4YzkeQEI
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Mar 30, 2015 10:31
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haha, i remember my friend buying the prerelease VHS too. no idea if we watched it or i saw the broadcast. tried to tell him to just wait in case it wasn't good. that was several weeks' pocket money too.
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Mar 30, 2015 10:42
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Cerv posted:lol nerd have you watched any doctor who ever? The kissing thing was a HUGE thing. I wasn't bothered by it because it made sense in context, but yeah, fandom was in a FUROR over it. As was the "half human" thing. And The Master being put on trial. And him being a snake. And Seventh dying like he did. And the motorcycle chase. Or course, those fans were conveniently forgetting: All the sex poo poo in the NAs. The kiss was far more tame than anything those books ever did (and believe me, the fans who hated the movie thought the NAs were the greatest Who ever) The Master's trial. Why would the Daleks put the Master on trial, they asked? Probably because of the Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks stuff, was my guess. The snake. That upset people a lot too, though it made sense if you were a fan of the show. The Master was always trying to cheat death. If he could shove his consciousness in a gelatinous snake to survive, he would totally do that. Seventh getting shot. Complaints were why didn't he look through the scanner before stepping outside? Then again, how many episodes did he just rush out a soon as the TARDIS landed? The motorcycle chase. "Americans put a car chase in Doctor Who! They're ruining it!" said fans who I can only guess had never seen Planet of the Spiders. I remember one review by a NA author in DWM who bought the video, and said he went to bed disappointed after watching it, saying it "wasn't Doctor Who". Which made me shake my head. Guy wrote for the NAs, he had no position to claim the TV movie "wasn't Who" while working for Virgin.
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Mar 30, 2015 11:04
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Davros1 posted:The Master's trial. Why would the Daleks put the Master on trial, they asked? Probably because of the Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks stuff, was my guess. The Master's trial is a bit weird though, you must concede. If they're putting him on trial for the Frontier/Planet stuff, why would they let the Doctor come and collect his remains? The Master annoyed them a bit, the Doctor ruined their plans over and over and over again and made them blow up their homeworld.
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Mar 30, 2015 11:15
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Fil5000 posted:The Master's trial is a bit weird though, you must concede. If they're putting him on trial for the Frontier/Planet stuff, why would they let the Doctor come and collect his remains? The Master annoyed them a bit, the Doctor ruined their plans over and over and over again and made them blow up their homeworld. Yadda yadda Act of Master Restitution gubbins.
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Mar 30, 2015 11:51
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The_Doctor posted:Yadda yadda Act of Master Restitution gubbins. Ehhhhhhhhh. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the movie for what it is, and I don't mind a lot of the other stuff that people seem to have problems with - 7's death is entirely fitting, the master would ALWAYS have an out even if it was being a snake, etc etc. It's just the "trial" and the "half human" bits that grate.
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Mar 30, 2015 12:00
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Yeah, some people seemed confused as to why the Master was able to turn into a snake creature, but it wasn't like the classic series hadn't established time and again he'd been madly experimenting with bizarre ways to cheat death for a long, long time. Also, I just kinda figured the Master's eyes were still all weird and screwed up from his condition in Survival v vHaha, they put in actual Dalek voices instead of the squeak-jury the actual movie used. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 12:11
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I went to (Re)Generation Who in Baltimore over the weekend. It was my first Doctor Who convention, and it was amazing. It was a tiny little con in its first year, but somehow they managed to convince Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy, Nicola Bryant, and Sophie Aldred to show up for it, and Tom Baker to Skype in. All of them are incredibly gracious and funny in person, especially Colin Baker. I'd always imagined him as being a bitter old man, but he seemed to genuinely enjoy his panels and had a great rapport with Sylvester McCoy. Sylvester McCoy played the spoons, Sophie Aldred took questions while walking around with a baseball bat, Tom Baker warned us against listening to the advice of old men, and I got my picture taken with the Sixth and Seventh Doctors. It was an amazing weekend 
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Mar 30, 2015 12:37
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Saw Peter mulling about the building earlier in costume, bad news everyone: that shirt we all disliked is making a return.
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Mar 30, 2015 12:39
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I think the one thing everyone agrees on about the TV movie is that casting Paul McGann as the Doctor was a good idea!
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Mar 30, 2015 13:52
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Davros1 posted:The motorcycle chase. "Americans put a car chase in Doctor Who! They're ruining it!" said fans who I can only guess had never seen Planet of the Spiders. Haha , the motorcycle scene could have been slotted into any and every Tennant episode and no one would have blinked.
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Mar 30, 2015 13:54
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After The War posted:Haha , the motorcycle scene could have been slotted into any and every Tennant episode and no one would have blinked. Maybe if it was a moped or a segway.
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Mar 30, 2015 14:18
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also, there was some motorcycle scenes in season 7, right?
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Mar 30, 2015 14:19
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Attitude Indicator posted:also, there was some motorcycle scenes in season 7, right? Matt Smith rode an antigrav motorcycle up the side of The Shard in London to burst in on the evil HQ.
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Mar 30, 2015 14:21
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PriorMarcus posted:Saw Peter mulling about the building earlier in costume, bad news everyone: that shirt we all disliked is making a return. Oh, no. Not the speckled one they nicked from Noel Edmonds's wardrobe?
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Mar 30, 2015 14:38
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Maisie Williams (Arya Stark on Game of Thrones) is going to be guest starring in season 9. Finally, an actually good young actor on the show!
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Mar 30, 2015 15:00
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^  And the starry shirt was great and nothing like the offensive mess that is Noel Edmund's day-to-day cult wear.
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Mar 30, 2015 15:07
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Kinda is on the 'Horror' Channel right now and holy gently caress, this poo poo is so bad, I have no idea how you guys keep a straight face saying the old series are still worth watching. Or at least, the ones made in the 70s and 80s, I'll concede the 60s stuff does have a certain je ne sais quoi.
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Mar 30, 2015 15:10
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Cerv posted:makes perfect sense. who wouldn't be kissing P McG given the opportunity? Buy is it okay to, kiss Paul?
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Mar 30, 2015 15:26
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Sentinel Red posted:Kinda is on the 'Horror' Channel right now and holy gently caress, this poo poo is so bad, I have no idea how you guys keep a straight face saying the old series are still worth watching. Or at least, the ones made in the 70s and 80s, I'll concede the 60s stuff does have a certain je ne sais quoi. Welcome to the Doctor Who Thread. You're going to have fun here.
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Mar 30, 2015 15:46
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Sentinel Red posted:Kinda is on the 'Horror' Channel right now and holy gently caress, this poo poo is so bad, I have no idea how you guys keep a straight face saying the old series are still worth watching. Or at least, the ones made in the 70s and 80s, I'll concede the 60s stuff does have a certain je ne sais quoi. You have to be able to ease your way into the era, though even for when it was made Who was pretty bad looking. I'm a big fan of toku series of all eras so I'm pretty well used to super cheap production values. The paradoxical thing about Who was that the longer it ran the worse it looked. The production hit a stride in the 60s and mostly kept that stride in the 70s. However as the decades went on, the costs of making a decent looking show rose, and the budget remained the same.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:21
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Sentinel Red posted:Kinda is on the 'Horror' Channel right now and holy gently caress, this poo poo is so bad, I have no idea how you guys keep a straight face saying the old series are still worth watching. Or at least, the ones made in the 70s and 80s, I'll concede the 60s stuff does have a certain je ne sais quoi. Have you made it to the fourth episode yet? If not, oh boy are you in for a treat.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:36
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Burkion posted:You have to be able to ease your way into the era, though even for when it was made Who was pretty bad looking. The bigger paradox was that the less they had to work with, the more ambitious they got - Enlightenment would have been a nightmare to tackle even with a motion picture budget. It's always nice to hear people who worked on the show pointing out that it really should looked much, much worse but for the effort they put in working with essentially nothing. Seeing the actors over the weekend really drove him the theatrical nature of the original series. Realism was never the goal, and accepting what's presented as standing in for a larger, more complex world the way you would a play helps a lot. Now let's see if we can turn this into another "theatre is a dead art form" derail.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:03
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After The War posted:Seeing the actors over the weekend really drove him the theatrical nature of the original series. Realism was never the goal, and accepting what's presented as standing in for a larger, more complex world the way you would a play helps a lot. Hearing Sylvester talking about just HOW much fun the pyrotechnics crew had on Remembrance of the Daleks was a hoot. "So they set the explosions off...and when the dust cleared, three Daleks had been melted in half. Oh, and did I mention this was on the 60th anniversary of the Easter Rebellion? As we heard the sirens, the director said 'well, let's call it a day. Everybody? Please run."
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Mar 30, 2015 17:58
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CobiWann posted:Hearing Sylvester talking about just HOW much fun the pyrotechnics crew had on Remembrance of the Daleks was a hoot. I remember that story being on the BBC nightly news.
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Mar 30, 2015 18:29
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Maisie Williams, who plays Arya Stark on Game of Thrones, will appear in the upcoming series. Despite my avatar's text, I've never watched the show.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:32
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I'm unreasonably excited for that. She's a great actor on GOT and I think she'll do well on Who.
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Mar 30, 2015 21:47
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