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gay picnic defence posted:It would, and I'm not entirely certain one way or another what happened. But in the absence of a smoking gun indicating drug use, I'm happy to see the players get let off and all the hacks who invested so much emotion and energy into a guilty verdict have a big sook about it. Dank literally admitted in an interview that it was TB-4 a couple years ago, and changed his story later to be that he was confused and meant 'thymodulin' ... I'm sure that he just hadn't had his coffee that day. Though he also said that the program was 'well documented', for added hilarity.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:01
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Gough Suppressant posted:He's not asking what the tribunal verdict was, he is asking whether you, gaypicnicdefence, believe the players were administered prohibited substances or not What do I think? I think both are as likely as one another. Dank talks about TB4 a lot and that makes me nervous, but on the other hand I reckon there would be a pretty obvious electronic paper trail back to China or whatever from the importation of the drug, and that if it existed someone would have found it. Nobody wanted to admit to importing TB4 for Essendon, and ASADA were accused by their own witnesses of changing statements to say that it was imported; why did they need to take such a step? ASADA's own legal counsel advised against issuing infraction notices. What I believe doesn't really matter, if ASADA and WADA think they've been hard done by they can take it to the appeals tribunal or the CAS and see how they go; but as matters stand a couple of retired judges who by rights should be about as impartial and unbiased as they get have agreed unanimously that there wasn't strong enough evidence to convict the players. Quite often when there is insufficient evidence available to prove something happened, that thing didn't happen. From the start this poo poo has been tainted by the tribalism that surrounds AFL. Ages ago in an Auspol thread, Those On My Left talked about the tribalism and how it turned him off sport and now I see what he meant. It should be a good day for football because we should be able to get on with the game with this load of poo poo hanging over everything, but instead people are getting upset that the side they picked did't win. People are baying for the blood of those Magpies kids who may well have just had some dodgy protein powder, just because they hate Collingwood and want to see the team and it's supporters suffer. Arguments I've heard about justice for drug cheats etc have usually just been a flimsy cover for gloating about how another team going get the spoon, be forced into the VFL, and it's fans are going to be upset and lose something they enjoy. To a certain extent that is fine except that in the middle are the careers and mental health of a bunch of young men who through no fault of their own ended up in the middle of a massive shitstorm and whose fates are being used to try and upset or offend other footy fans. The extent to which some people have taken that attitude to heart is just scary, it's almost as if for some it is better seeing an opposition team downtrodden and the fans in tears than it is seeing their own team win.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:44
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I am unfamiliar with the concept of my team winning so don't take the other thing away from me you premiership-privileged scum(this is a joke)
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Mar 31, 2015 10:49
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As counter to the other thing: if Hird believed nothing had been done wrong why did he spend literal millions of his own money in a failed attempt to stop the investigation, if he didn't use it why does Dank talk about Thymosin beta 4 so much, if it was above board why did Bruce Reid and Mark Thompson make their objections known on multiple occasions, why were injections carried out offsite, and why was proper documentation of what went into the players not kept? Surely if you're employing a sports scientist to develop a cutting edge program for you, you want a copy of what he is putting in them so if it works you can keep loving doing it.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:54
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There was not enough evidence to meet the burden of proof, I agree with that, that however does not mean the case exists in some quantum unknowable and inscrutable state where it is exactly equally likely that it did happen as didn't
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Mar 31, 2015 10:58
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Brb gonna burn down Windy Hill in an attempt to steer the thread away from the precipice
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Mar 31, 2015 11:08
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Gough Suppressant posted:There was not enough evidence to meet the burden of proof, I agree with that, that however does not mean the case exists in some quantum unknowable and inscrutable state where it is exactly equally likely that it did happen as didn't Pretty much this. The AFL gave the hammer to the Dons two years ago, kicking them out of finals, fining them 2 million dollarydoos, that wasn't for nothing, that was because of systemic malarkey that pretty much might've contributed to these players getting off. "Not Proven" seems like more of an apt decision than "Not Guilty" because there is no proof either way. I don't think this is purely tribalism, this is about a noxious culture hanging over the sport in general and putting the welfare of players at the forefront of the club's efforts to win. I have no problem with the Tribunal's decision, I have a problem that people seem to think this is vindication of some sort? Paracausal fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 11:16
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TG-Chrono posted:Pretty much this. The AFL gave the hammer to the Dons two years ago, kicking them out of finals, fining them 2 million dollarydoos, that wasn't for nothing, that was because of systemic malarkey that pretty much might've contributed to these players getting off. "Not Proven" seems like more of an apt decision than "Not Guilty" because there is no proof either way. I don't think this is purely tribalism, this is about a noxious culture hanging over the sport in general and putting the welfare of players at the forefront of the club's efforts to win. I have no problem with the Tribunal's decision, I have a problem that people seem to think this is vindication of some sort? I agree with this post.
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Mar 31, 2015 11:30
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I think the AFLPA needs to push instead of dumb poo poo like free agency, for actual helpful stuff like running a continuing independent audit of every clubs player management, through the AFLPA, with full access to all documents and ability to enter and search premises without notice, as well as offering confidential advice to any player who asks questions about their clubs program.
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Mar 31, 2015 11:37
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Gough Suppressant posted:I think the AFLPA needs to push instead of dumb poo poo like free agency, for actual helpful stuff like running a continuing independent audit of every clubs player management, through the AFLPA, with full access to all documents and ability to enter and search premises without notice, as well as offering confidential advice to any player who asks questions about their clubs program. BUT WHAT ABOUT OUR CLUBS SUPER SPECIAL PREMIERSHIP WINNING TRADE SECRETS?
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Mar 31, 2015 11:55
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hiddenmovement posted:BUT WHAT ABOUT OUR CLUBS SUPER SPECIAL PREMIERSHIP WINNING TRADE SECRETS? What, like having a heap of highly skilled players and talented coaches? I really don't see how a few percent extra of raw physical ability (strength and endurance) are going to win you a premiership, and is worth risking so much to get that few percent. You have a look at the most recent successful teams, Hawks/Swans/Cats, and they're teams of exceptional footballers, not exceptional athletes. I've never really understood why you'd bother doping in AFL, so many players (and opportunities for the story to get out) and such a big reliance on skill and coaching. Spedman fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 12:08
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TG-Chrono posted:Pretty much this. The AFL gave the hammer to the Dons two years ago, kicking them out of finals, fining them 2 million dollarydoos, that wasn't for nothing, that was because of systemic malarkey that pretty much might've contributed to these players getting off. "Not Proven" seems like more of an apt decision than "Not Guilty" because there is no proof either way. I don't think this is purely tribalism, this is about a noxious culture hanging over the sport in general and putting the welfare of players at the forefront of the club's efforts to win. I have no problem with the Tribunal's decision, I have a problem that people seem to think this is vindication of some sort? I think it's vindication for the players and the fans. The players just want to play footy, and I have always 100% supported them and think they should get off. And some Essendon fans would string me up to a tree branch for this but I'll be glad to see Paddy pull on the Port jumper and play this weekend, as much as it'll hurt to see as well. It's vindication for the fans because we never wanted this, we would never in a million years want to sit through this, we just want to watch footy and support footy which we've done all our lives. Now there's a chance to get back to that. But, on the other hand I completely agree. Not guilty is not the same as innocent. Im not going to be crowing about how Hird and the club didn't do anything wrong snd this proves it. This proves that they can't prove it. The club deserved what it copped in 2013 for the loving shambles it created which could have been completely avoided if they had just done the right thing.
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Mar 31, 2015 12:14
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I think the other thing is that Essendon copped the heaviest penalty the afl has ever handed out for its shithouse management of player welfare, but it did so 2 years ago, so in many ways it feels like they and Hird are getting off scot free. Shoot James Hird into the sun imo
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Mar 31, 2015 12:17
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James Hird posted:"I wasn't the person choosing the supplements, that wasn't my role to do that." Gough Suppressant posted:Shoot James Hird into the sun imo
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Mar 31, 2015 13:59
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boy undead posted:Please not Tom Hickey. Please. Just one off-season. One. In response I think we should sack Hird, disband essendon and eat Paul Little. In that order.
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Mar 31, 2015 14:03
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Gough Suppressant posted:Shoot James Hird into the sun imo
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Mar 31, 2015 14:03
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oh boy 44 new posts, i bet some new and exciting and not at all hopelessly tedious event has unfolded in the world of afl
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Mar 31, 2015 14:25
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And before I give Volkerball an aneurysm I don't mean make him gold coasts coach
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Mar 31, 2015 14:25
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snaeksikn posted:oh boy 44 new posts, i bet some new and exciting and not at all hopelessly tedious event has unfolded in the world of afl I blame ratbag craig
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Mar 31, 2015 15:00
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This is somehow Wayne Carey's fault.
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Mar 31, 2015 15:15
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Just in case anyone has forgotten, James Hird is a filthy corrupt cheat. No this is not an april fools day post.
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Mar 31, 2015 18:23
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Nutsngum posted:Just in case anyone has forgotten, James Hird is a filthy corrupt cheat. For argument's sake, lets say that nothing the players were given were performance enhancing or banned. Let's say that Hird wanted to find new ways to help players recover without crossing any lines which veer into performance enhancing or banned substances. IF that were the case, I don't see how that is too different from a player going down into the rooms to get a jab to deal with the pain so they can come back on and play. Or the way other clubs do have sports science programs and administer actual non-banned, totally approved substances such as vitamins. Both are technically unnatural ways of helping the body cope with something that has happened to it on the field, and are introducing something new into the system. IF, for argument's sake, this is all Hird wanted then I don't see how the corrupt cheat label can really be applied to him. He states that's all he wanted, the results yesterday can't prove otherwise. So, for all Hird's faults I don't think a corrupt cheat is one of them. Of course he could be a filthy corrupt cheat if it was his intention to have performance enhancing drugs administered, but as yesterday showed, we can't prove that. However, as we all know, what he did do is not give a flying gently caress about what the players were actually given. Put complete trust in a fuckwit like Dank to run it and in turn, potentially put the careers, and health of the player's and their families at risk due to complete and utter loving negligence, arrogance, and selfishness. That selfishness further demonstrated when he appealed the decision last year against the wishes of the club and the players. Is he a filthy corrupt cheat? I don't think we can actually say that with certainty and the tag is old already. Is he a loving idiot who deserves to be launched into the sun for his decisions which allowed all of this to happen under his watch? Absolutely. Then again, champion player m8, u couldnt play as well as him m8. He came back from 2 potentially career ending injuries so dont say poo poo about him hes innocent m8 #standbyhird #wrestlemania31 (Yeah, I'm hoping that last sentence highlights the differences between the folk who defend him and how I semi-defend him in this case. But really, it's less of a defence and more of a pointer that your feelings towards him are justified, just not for those reasons). edit: ANYWAYS. gently caress it, I'm so ready to move on now. Now, my loving supercoach team. That headache enducing BS. Are we definitely going with 2 leagues this year when both have around 11-12 people in them? Can we not open up the Goon Cash Splash one to more people and anyone from the Laycock league who hasn't joined is able to jump across so that we are all in one? Otherwise we'll be playing with a bunch of pubbies, and damned if a pubbie will win a Goon league 
thepokey fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 20:09
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TG-Chrono posted:Pretty much this. The AFL gave the hammer to the Dons two years ago, kicking them out of finals, fining them 2 million dollarydoos, that wasn't for nothing, that was because of systemic malarkey that pretty much might've contributed to these players getting off. "Not Proven" seems like more of an apt decision than "Not Guilty" because there is no proof either way. I don't think this is purely tribalism, this is about a noxious culture hanging over the sport in general and putting the welfare of players at the forefront of the club's efforts to win. I have no problem with the Tribunal's decision, I have a problem that people seem to think this is vindication of some sort? thepokey posted:For argument's sake, lets say that nothing the players were given were performance enhancing or banned. Let's say that Hird wanted to find new ways to help players recover without crossing any lines which veer into performance enhancing or banned substances. IF that were the case, I don't see how that is too different from a player going down into the rooms to get a jab to deal with the pain so they can come back on and play. Or the way other clubs do have sports science programs and administer actual non-banned, totally approved substances such as vitamins. Both are technically unnatural ways of helping the body cope with something that has happened to it on the field, and are introducing something new into the system. IF, for argument's sake, this is all Hird wanted then I don't see how the corrupt cheat label can really be applied to him. He states that's all he wanted, the results yesterday can't prove otherwise. So, for all Hird's faults I don't think a corrupt cheat is one of them. Of course he could be a filthy corrupt cheat if it was his intention to have performance enhancing drugs administered, but as yesterday showed, we can't prove that. These are both good posts, and I think the AFLPA is right when they say it is a good result but it doesn't absolve the club of what it did. I just hope that now there is actual care put into the management of the club and it's activities and once Hird is done and retires (he'll never be sacked lol) they move on from the boys club mentality that got them in this mess in the first place.
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Mar 31, 2015 23:36
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Oh regarding Supercoach. It's not like you have to do twice the work with two leagues, you have the same team across both. I've also got a league that needs more people. 189275
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Mar 31, 2015 23:50
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gay picnic defence posted:These are both good posts, and I think the AFLPA is right when they say it is a good result but it doesn't absolve the club of what it did. I just hope that now there is actual care put into the management of the club and it's activities and once Hird is done and retires (he'll never be sacked lol) they move on from the boys club mentality that got them in this mess in the first place. This will never happen imo. But we could start with making it so that AFL head coaches actually have to go through the accreditation program which the AFL already runs.
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Apr 1, 2015 00:25
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TG-Chrono posted:Pretty much this. The AFL gave the hammer to the Dons two years ago, kicking them out of finals, fining them 2 million dollarydoos, that wasn't for nothing, that was because of systemic malarkey that pretty much might've contributed to these players getting off. "Not Proven" seems like more of an apt decision than "Not Guilty" because there is no proof either way. I don't think this is purely tribalism, this is about a noxious culture hanging over the sport in general and putting the welfare of players at the forefront of the club's efforts to win. I have no problem with the Tribunal's decision, I have a problem that people seem to think this is vindication of some sort? A Good Post
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Apr 1, 2015 01:11
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After yesterday saying they would announce a decision on whether they would appeal this morning ASADA have said "actually nah, we will decide later"
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Apr 1, 2015 01:23
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There's a rumour Richmond are playing Carlton tommorow
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Apr 1, 2015 03:28
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hiddenmovement posted:There's a rumour Richmond are playing Carlton tommorow Yessss 
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Apr 1, 2015 03:30
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Trying something a little different this year, my office comp always tends to end up having similar teams scoring around 2200 weekly. Which is boring, so i've decided to go with some POD's from the start this season. Boak, J.Stevens, Masten, Bennell, Maric and Bellchambers all seem to be fairly rare this season so hopefully the main players (Ablett, Rockliff, Pendles, Beams, selwoods, Buddy et al), can have a slow start to the season! My only worry is Boaky always gets the tag and Stevens probably will too, but even so they tend to score well and can have massive 130+ games when not tagged. What do you think? 
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Apr 1, 2015 03:32
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Did my tipping. Just picked the favourites. Round 1 tipping is always a crapshoot.
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Apr 1, 2015 04:10
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thepokey posted:For argument's sake, lets say that nothing the players were given were performance enhancing or banned. Let's say that Hird wanted to find new ways to help players recover without crossing any lines which veer into performance enhancing or banned substances. IF that were the case, I don't see how that is too different from a player going down into the rooms to get a jab to deal with the pain so they can come back on and play. Or the way other clubs do have sports science programs and administer actual non-banned, totally approved substances such as vitamins. Both are technically unnatural ways of helping the body cope with something that has happened to it on the field, and are introducing something new into the system. IF, for argument's sake, this is all Hird wanted then I don't see how the corrupt cheat label can really be applied to him. He states that's all he wanted, the results yesterday can't prove otherwise. So, for all Hird's faults I don't think a corrupt cheat is one of them. Of course he could be a filthy corrupt cheat if it was his intention to have performance enhancing drugs administered, but as yesterday showed, we can't prove that. Best april fools day prank yet. Nice work! Just checking my "cheating crookometer" and we... are still confirmed for Hird!
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Apr 1, 2015 04:40
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TG-Chrono posted:Oh regarding Supercoach. It's not like you have to do twice the work with two leagues, you have the same team across both. I've also got a league that needs more people. 189275 Jumped in this. Jayson Laycock Cup still needs 7 players to be filled.
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Apr 1, 2015 05:09
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TG-Chrono posted:Oh regarding Supercoach. It's not like you have to do twice the work with two leagues, you have the same team across both. I've also got a league that needs more people. 189275 Just joined this league. My team is hot trash made up of players whose names I like, and who will never win a game. I also will probably forget about it after a couple of weeks and never update it. YAY! May it forever be an annoyance/whipping boy to the teams around it.
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Apr 1, 2015 05:41
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http://m.theage.com.au/afl/trading-and-drafting/how-clem-smith-found-a-place-to-call-home-20141123-11s6k4.html #TeamClem
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Apr 1, 2015 08:55
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is it just me or is jobe watson morphing to look more and more like james hird jesus gently caress mark robinson is such a piece of poo poo gently caress me "before today, james hird hasn't had the ability to apologise because he has been gagged by the club. There has only been one person that has accepted responsibility for what happened at Essendon, and that has been Hird" Gough Suppressant fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Apr 1, 2015 |
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Apr 1, 2015 12:25
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snaeksikn posted:oh boy 44 new posts, i bet some new and exciting and not at all hopelessly tedious event has unfolded in the world of afl
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Apr 1, 2015 12:50
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hiddenmovement posted:There's a rumour Richmond are playing Carlton tommorow
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Apr 1, 2015 12:53
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AFL360: "You need weapons. They got Liam Jones up forward" In one preseason Liam Jones has turned from an inconsistent athlete with serious consistency issues & knowledge of when to lead and leap and has become a weapon.
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Apr 1, 2015 13:04
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Gough Suppressant posted:is it just me or is jobe watson morphing to look more and more like james hird I watched 360 and Rubbo was wearing French cuffs without cufflinks and stammered through about a dozen triple syllable words. He's definitely part of the "aspirational class" and represents the readership of his shitrag with aplomb and eloquence. E: Clenbuterol can be used as a common cutting agent for a variety of party drugs. Think the steak might be a code word. Paracausal fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Apr 1, 2015 |
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Apr 1, 2015 13:05
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