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Harry Lime posted:I'm looking for some career progression advice. I recently left my old job where my title was junior systems engineer and moved to Australia and am currently job hunting. How important is it in the long term that my next job ditch the junior part of the title? I've got an interview for a junior project engineer role at an MSP that looks interesting but I'm worried how it will look on a CV that I've jumped from junior to junior. I held my previous title for 2 years and was doing help desk phone support for two years prior to that. Obviously this worry is all moot until I actually get an offer but I'm also wondering if I should just be weeding those postings out as I continue to hunt. I wouldn't be too concerned regarding the title but going to an MSP is a different world and it can be very beneficial. I might not have the same experience as everyone, however, I find that it is a great environment to really evolve and move up in titles. Mainly due to the fact that by design an MSP is smaller in capacity where you have the opportunity to work directly with co-workers with job titles you want. The way it worked for me at my last MSP was we had a junior employee mostly working on rolling out new desktops/laptops but if they said hey I would love to work on deploying network environments/servers - they would go onsite with someone else to do those deployments so they get hands on experience. Because honestly it was in the MSP's best interest for an employee to move up the ranks and not be stuck doing a lower end position. If I were in your shoes, I would personally go to that interview and say that you would love to move out of the junior role and work more as a senior engineer on different projects. At least with that approach they will like the eagerness and know you are not just there to sit around and do the same thing - or if they get mad you want to move into a better position then you don't want them as an employer anyway.
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Mar 31, 2015 14:13
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Harry Lime posted:I'm looking for some career progression advice. I recently left my old job where my title was junior systems engineer and moved to Australia and am currently job hunting. How important is it in the long term that my next job ditch the junior part of the title? I've got an interview for a junior project engineer role at an MSP that looks interesting but I'm worried how it will look on a CV that I've jumped from junior to junior. I held my previous title for 2 years and was doing help desk phone support for two years prior to that. Obviously this worry is all moot until I actually get an offer but I'm also wondering if I should just be weeding those postings out as I continue to hunt. At a previous job they just called everyone in IT "Help Desk" but it didn't match the description of the work we actually did so I put "System Administrator" on my resume. No job has ever questioned it because my accomplishments and description matched the title. The world of titles in IT is so convoluted and murky it doesn't really matter what you're called as long as you have the skills/qualifications that particular employer is looking for.
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Mar 31, 2015 14:22
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Agreed on the "IT titles being bullshit so don't sweat it" thing. In my past 4 job tiles I've gone from: Helpdesk Analyst (3rd line MSP support & consultancy) Systems Administrator (actually was a systems admin) Systems Analyst (MSP consultant) Senior Technical Engineer (MSP consultant) The latest one sounded way better than systems analyst because it had senior in the title, but now I look at it and I think "Why the hell does it even say technical, we aren't going to have structural engineers at an MSP" Hell what I'm calling consultancy is probably completely different from what the last poster would call it (I do customer project design & install, pre-sales, last line of support for networks and servers, etc) IT is all just one big title bullshit parade. Ahdinko fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 14:57
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I was a systems engineer at an MSP. It was just how they sold us: "when you call you always talk to an engineer!" The work was entirely remote helpdesk and other troubleshooting. Side note: we're looking at Nextiva as a replacement for Pingtone. So far I can't seem to find anything against them. They seem to have a solid product, good support, easy to use if we want to do any support stuff ourselves, robust, and they're a carrier rather than a provider so we're not stuck with one network if say Level3 goes down again. Anyone have experience with Nextiva, good or bad, as hosted VoIP?
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Mar 31, 2015 15:00
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NZAmoeba posted:So pristine I can tell you're still wearing a tie I've been wearing one a couple of times a week for image reasons. I've taken a little ribbing over it and yesterday at my first meeting with the CEO he said "Oh, you don't need to wear a tie." So... guess it's time to stop wearing it! 
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Mar 31, 2015 15:11
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Hi IT goons! I have some basic questions that can't really be answered by googling, so I figured I'd throw a few out here in the thread if that's alright. First off I attend a University ABET certified Engineering curriculum tailored to working in Information Technology fields after graduation. I've taken classes like: Linux Administration, Network Security and Firewalls, Object Oriented Programming, Java, IT concepts, Etc. It's basically a combination of IT and Electrical Engineering coursework. Most of these classes like Network Security are essentially just the corresponding vendor cert, with the exception of the EE classes. I'm currently pursuing internships, but I have the following questions: What kind of jobs should I be trying to find after graduation? How can I show to these prospective employers that they should hire me even though the only experience I will have is an internship? Are there any skills I should pick up right now (I.e. Learning powershell)? If I am sober will I slowly fall down the rabbit hole of self-loathing and eventually suffocate myself by leaving my car running in my garage? Edit: I really seem to enjoy Sysadmin stuff and Linux Servers, and wouldn't mind security either.
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Mar 31, 2015 15:25
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Frank Viola posted:Hi IT goons! I have some basic questions that can't really be answered by googling, so I figured I'd throw a few out here in the thread if that's alright. First off I attend a University ABET certified Engineering curriculum tailored to working in Information Technology fields after graduation. I've taken classes like: Linux Administration, Network Security and Firewalls, Object Oriented Programming, Java, IT concepts, Etc. It's basically a combination of IT and Electrical Engineering coursework. Most of these classes like Network Security are essentially just the corresponding vendor cert, with the exception of the EE classes. I'm currently pursuing internships, but I have the following questions: Honestly, I would look to find an entry level help desk job right now while you're in school. If you live near a major metropolitan area, or even a bustling suburb there are a ton of small-business IT companies that hire part-time help desk. Couple that with a cert or two, and by the time you're out of college you could probably land something above help desk pretty easily.
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Mar 31, 2015 15:29
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Today on awful sales tactics: "Hey Docjowles, please send me the contact info for your company's Google Apps admin. Thanks!" Pushy AND sketchy. Great combo, hope it works out for you.
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Mar 31, 2015 16:36
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Docjowles posted:Today on awful sales tactics: "Hey Docjowles, please send me the contact info for your company's Google Apps admin. Thanks!" "My associate Jim Doe will be at Competitor in Faraway, MA on Tuesday April 7th at 10:00 AM to discuss An Advisory Group and our telecom review services. I would like to schedule a meeting with you that day as well. The meeting can be brief and the review is at no cost to you. Certainly advantageous if we are able to find savings for you. Please contact me and I look forward to hearing from you soon."  Another VAR calls me once a month exclusively to make small talk. It's been about 4 months and he knows everything about my vacation schedule but I still don't know what he's selling. CDWG has blown everyone I've worked with out of the water, if only for bullshit-minimalization.
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Mar 31, 2015 16:57
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My favorite is the call saying "I just wanted to confirm that you received the whitepaper I forwarded over. Oh you didn't? I can certainly resend that, what's your email for confirmation?"
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Mar 31, 2015 19:19
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Sorry, I only read blackpapers because I'm not a racist.
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Mar 31, 2015 19:22
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bull3964 posted:My favorite is the call saying "I just wanted to confirm that you received the whitepaper I forwarded over. Oh you didn't? I can certainly resend that, what's your email for confirmation?" As someone new to IT, how do I handle poo poo like this? A few times a week, my office gets calls like this and I'm usually the one to answer. By the time I sort out if they're a client that actually needs help or not, they're usually into their whole spiel already.
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Mar 31, 2015 20:06
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:As someone new to IT, how do I handle poo poo like this? A few times a week, my office gets calls like this and I'm usually the one to answer. By the time I sort out if they're a client that actually needs help or not, they're usually into their whole spiel already. "We don't accept inbound calls of this nature. Please take our company's name and contact info off your list and do not call us back. Thank you."
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Mar 31, 2015 20:08
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:As someone new to IT, how do I handle poo poo like this? A few times a week, my office gets calls like this and I'm usually the one to answer. By the time I sort out if they're a client that actually needs help or not, they're usually into their whole spiel already. "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for a commission, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my hang up now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will DDOS you."
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Mar 31, 2015 20:10
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Dear thread, Just got through with all the paperwork and it's YOTJ. I said no to their first offer and effectively gave myself a enormous 25% pay bump. 
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Mar 31, 2015 20:23
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As long as I'm not busy, I love telemarketers. Start asking them questions like "I'm sorry, who are you?" "And where are you calling from?" "And where did you get my info?" "No, you got my information from somewhere. Where?" "I don't recall authorizing contact with your organization. What authorization do you have in file?" You're gonna try to make my day tough? Gonna give the favor right back, buddy. My personal goal is to make telemarketing unprofitable, one phone call at a time.
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Mar 31, 2015 20:26
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:As someone new to IT, how do I handle poo poo like this? A few times a week, my office gets calls like this and I'm usually the one to answer. By the time I sort out if they're a client that actually needs help or not, they're usually into their whole spiel already. "We do not take incoming solicitations. If we require any of your services we will call you first." Don't wait for a response, just hang up. Tab8715 posted:Dear thread, Congrats 
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Mar 31, 2015 20:31
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Wizard of the Deep posted:As long as I'm not busy, I love telemarketers. Start asking them questions like "I'm sorry, who are you?" "And where are you calling from?" "And where did you get my info?" "No, you got my information from somewhere. Where?" "I don't recall authorizing contact with your organization. What authorization do you have in file?" I worked in a cubicle section with my boss right next to me, and the other PS guys around. I took a call from a telemarketer, and just started messing with them. Turns out it was a real recruiter working for a competitor who was really interested in poaching a few of our employees. After a few minutes they guy started asking about my job title and salary, I kept giving him BS answers, and eventually hung up. My boss flipped out, claiming I was interviewing for a job at my desk.I really thought I was going to get fired.
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Mar 31, 2015 20:37
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Tab8715 posted:Dear thread, Congratulations!
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Mar 31, 2015 20:53
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So I should probably assume that if I'm seeing NOC tech job listings that require only previous help desk experience, I'm probably gonna be one of those button pushing monkeys that gets talked about in here right?
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Apr 1, 2015 14:18
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That and remote hands. If all you have is Helpdesk experience it may not be a bad thing.
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Apr 1, 2015 14:25
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Those jobs can be sweet though. Like if its some place that pays well but you don't have a lot of work. Depends on the company really. I moved up from that to sys admin. I know people I have worked with that once did that and then moved up to managing the team before switching jobs. So you can use it to climb the ladder socially and use any free time to grow technically.
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Apr 1, 2015 14:31
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Toshimo posted:"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for a commission, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my hang up now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will DDOS you." If I had a potential customer that did that on a cold call, I'd laugh so hard pee would come out. Then I'd post about it here. I'd probably also keep calling back to troll the DDoS guy. poo poo like that makes my day.
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Apr 1, 2015 14:33
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:So I should probably assume that if I'm seeing NOC tech job listings that require only previous help desk experience, I'm probably gonna be one of those button pushing monkeys that gets talked about in here right? One thing I learned is that there's good experience to be had in helpdesk in dealing with people. A lot of techs get moved up to better jobs because customers like them and they have good relationships with them. The majority of a job hiring decision isn't really based on technical skill, but on the ability to fit in with the team. In helpdesk, you can elevate over the typical Mike the IT Guy character, and get noticed for the better.
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Apr 1, 2015 14:38
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Internet Explorer posted:That and remote hands. If all you have is Helpdesk experience it may not be a bad thing. JHVH-1 posted:Those jobs can be sweet though. Like if its some place that pays well but you don't have a lot of work. Depends on the company really. I moved up from that to sys admin. I know people I have worked with that once did that and then moved up to managing the team before switching jobs. So you can use it to climb the ladder socially and use any free time to grow technically. Yeah, I was just poking around job listings around my area since I'm getting bored with helpdesk (but have no certs other than A+, and no real experience with stuff like Windows Server or whatever) and noticed that the only requirements a few companies that wanted NOC techs had were previous helpdesk experience. I'm planning on getting a MSCA in Server 2012 and trying to move into some sort of jr. sys admin or sys admin role. SIR FAT JONY IVES posted:One thing I learned is that there's good experience to be had in helpdesk in dealing with people. A lot of techs get moved up to better jobs because customers like them and they have good relationships with them. The majority of a job hiring decision isn't really based on technical skill, but on the ability to fit in with the team. In helpdesk, you can elevate over the typical Mike the IT Guy character, and get noticed for the better. Not to sound "cocky" or anything, but I feel like I'm a pretty drat good people person, and can get along with almost anyone. I don't really worry about being able to "fit" into a team, because it's never been a problem in the past wherever I've worked. The place I'm working at now though, there's almost no room for advancement whatsoever. It's a small (4 person) small business that supports other small businesses in the area - you probably already know the deal. This means that most of the time I'm the only one left in the office, and get relegated to basic helpdesk duties. I'm grateful they've given me the "foot in the door" so to speak, it's just that I'm getting bored with my responsibilities and the way they have things set up, it would be hard for me to get any more than I have now. chocolateTHUNDER fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Apr 1, 2015 |
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Apr 1, 2015 14:46
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NOC tech jobs can get you exposure to a fairly broad range of technologies that you may not have touched before. I worked in a colo/managed hosting datacenter NOC for a little while (until it got bought out  ) and got to do all sorts of things. I know you're working on your Microsoft cert, but if you don't have a network+ or ccna or something, you might want to sit down with the book and get down the fundamentals. Stuff like the OSI model, basics of how routing and switching actually work (and what the difference between the two is) maybe a little bit of NAT and ACLs, common ports, what subnetting is and how to do it, that sort of thing. I've done a fair bit of interviewing for another NOC job in the last month, and all that stuff came up every time. Also, some Linux basics.
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Apr 1, 2015 15:08
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SIR FAT JONY IVES posted:One thing I learned is that there's good experience to be had in helpdesk in dealing with people. A lot of techs get moved up to better jobs because customers like them and they have good relationships with them. The majority of a job hiring decision isn't really based on technical skill, but on the ability to fit in with the team. In helpdesk, you can elevate over the typical Mike the IT Guy character, and get noticed for the better. Echoing this. When you work for companies that contract out your services, personality is king. My last interview was 15 mins of technical questions and an hour with theoretical situations with customers that I would have to resolve and diffuse. Computers are easy. Irate people are not. You get a lot of experience being the calm person in the room when you're help desk.
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Apr 1, 2015 15:48
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SIR FAT JONY IVES posted:One thing I learned is that there's good experience to be had in helpdesk in dealing with people. A lot of techs get moved up to better jobs because customers like them and they have good relationships with them. The majority of a job hiring decision isn't really based on technical skill, but on the ability to fit in with the team. In helpdesk, you can elevate over the typical Mike the IT Guy character, and get noticed for the better. Or they just hand you all the problem/annoying customers since you're "good with them." 
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Apr 1, 2015 17:04
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:So I should probably assume that if I'm seeing NOC tech job listings that require only previous help desk experience, I'm probably gonna be one of those button pushing monkeys that gets talked about in here right? There's two kinds of NOC jobs. Truly awful ones where you literally just sit around waiting for something to turn red on the dashboard, do minimal troubleshooting and then call someone to fix it. Then there are gigs more like what Rafikki is talking about that are almost more of a junior sysadmin role. You're expected to do more in-depth troubleshooting before you escalate, and take minor projects or "grunt work" off the plate of the admin/engineering team. Usually with a data center and remote hands component, too. You're still responding to alarms and trouble tickets but in between, you're allowed and expected to work on more interesting poo poo. These can be really great entry level jobs, better than help desk in my opinion if your goal is to get into more of an operations role vs user-facing internal IT. It should become obvious which type it is pretty early in the interview process.
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Apr 1, 2015 17:32
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Docjowles posted:There's two kinds of NOC jobs. Truly awful ones where you literally just sit around waiting for something to turn red on the dashboard, do minimal troubleshooting and then call someone to fix it. Then there are gigs more like what Rafikki is talking about that are almost more of a junior sysadmin role. You're expected to do more in-depth troubleshooting before you escalate, and take minor projects or "grunt work" off the plate of the admin/engineering team. Usually with a data center and remote hands component, too. You're still responding to alarms and trouble tickets but in between, you're allowed and expected to work on more interesting poo poo. These can be really great entry level jobs, better than help desk in my opinion if your goal is to get into more of an operations role vs user-facing internal IT. Got it, thanks. Guess I should update my resume! E: also yes, I would like to get into more of an operations role because, you know, gently caress users. chocolateTHUNDER fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Apr 1, 2015 |
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Apr 1, 2015 18:22
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Both are pretty great, actually. For the first, you get paid to do virtually nothing while having the chance to study for certs or whatever. For the second, you have a nice and meaningful job. For both: You're not on the helpdesk which is an immediate bonus.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:38
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Curious, how much do NOC jobs generally pay?
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Apr 1, 2015 18:50
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Tab8715 posted:Curious, how much do NOC jobs generally pay? It obviously depends on area, but the ones I've seen listed around me (Long Island, NY) seem to be in the 40-50k range, which to me seems fair for what is essentially an entry level job according to indudstry vets in here. A full time help desk position pays similarly around here. I currently have a part-time help desk position, and also go to school (graduate in May for...Marketing  ) so I'm preparing to as May rolls closer.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:54
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:It obviously depends on area, but the ones I've seen listed around me (Long Island, NY) seem to be in the 40-50k range, which to me seems fair for what is essentially an entry level job according to indudstry vets in here. A full time help desk position pays similarly around here. I currently have a part-time help desk position, and also go to school (graduate in May for...Marketing
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Apr 1, 2015 19:00
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I am going to echo the 'fit' of the organization bit as well. We have been through a number of help desk people in the last year and a half I've been here, and most of them were not bad techs, but had issues with attitude, taking directions, and follow through. We have moved from background and experience driving candidates towards inexperience but a drive to learn and improve. That change has served us very well, and can happen regardless of age, education, and experience. The biggest thing I look during an interview for a help desk or jr. admin position is 'I don't know' in response to a question I know is over their head. If you try and bullshit me, we are done. I strongly feel that a huge part of doing IT work is being able to admit when you don't know something rather than just wasting time trying to figure it out when someone else can help you. The other thing I look for is the ability to work out a problem. I will give a vague question like 'a network printer isn't working' and ask them to walk me through their thought process. While there are certainly right and wrong approaches, I am more curious as to the process than the answers.
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Apr 1, 2015 19:06
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Great post. To sum most of that up in a one liner that I always use, "I can teach anyone the technical knowledge they need to do this job, I can't teach them how not to be an rear end in a top hat"
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Apr 1, 2015 19:19
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Just to poke in, I'm looking around to find a good solution for keeping account information for server work. I'm in an MSP so we'll have things for multiple clients and will have multiple people on this so I'm OK with some backend security if I can push it as necessary and better than keeping a hidden page somewhere on the MSP network. I looked at Keepass but not sure if we can do much without buying a Yubikey or something of that fashion. I just wanted to see what others are using to do this.
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Apr 1, 2015 19:43
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Irritated Goat posted:Just to poke in, I too got tired of the "everyone has a personal Keepass file, each subtly different" method of managing credentials. Fellow goon madsushi recommended Secret Server to me and it's been pretty awesome. It's a bit heavy weight and "enterprisey" but I haven't come across anything better. If you don't need the more advanced features, the Express edition is a ridiculous value at $10. They also periodically have an insane promotion on it that massively increases the limit on total number of saved passwords and concurrent users, and it looks like that's active again right now.
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Apr 1, 2015 20:31
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Have any of you done SQL Server 2012/2014 AlwaysOn Availability Groups over a weak WAN connection between sites? Usually 300-400ms ping with occasionally noticeable packet loss. I'm curious what kind of issues I'm going to have.
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Apr 1, 2015 20:53
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Uhhh nope, but you just sent a chill down my back...
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Apr 1, 2015 20:55
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