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I was a bit, and as I got more fatigued my form got worse and I started slouching and folding over more and more. If I had been in better shape I wouldn't have gotten as tired as quickly and would have kept good form longer. And by low, I mean I was attacking people's feet a LOT. I had been working on developing a foot-attack feint and was a little tunnel-visioned on that one particular family of attacks. Since then it's improved a bunch, so it's more of a low-line feint to start off a complex action. Still, gotta tag them on the toe every now and then to keep them honest.
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Mar 25, 2015 00:39
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Crazy Achmed posted:Wow. I'd heard about this but never read up about it, that's some pretty brazen stuff. I did hear there was a rumour that Onishchenko was pressured into using the doctored weapon by officials, even though he obviously didn't need it - nothing substantiated, of course. Epee: easiest to ref? Sure, why not. Easy to ref? No. I'd say the main things are when a halt occurs and if the following touch was valid. Valid touches mainly come from an action to being "late" or not, and very rarely do I get into an argument about whether a given action was a "riposte". Sometimes people really want non-combativity to be called, even if one of the criteria hasn't been met. But really, any call, at any time can induce much whining. Two examples that come to my mind are not calling jostling at a local and retesting a weapon at JO's. At the local, it seemed pretty straight forward. Fencer on the Left fleches a little out of distance. Fencer on the Right does a simple, but far outside, bind to 6 and attempts a riposte a little before FotL reaches him. FotR misses the riposte and is knocked down when FotL passes into his arm. I wait to see FotR get up, call simple corps a corps, and reset the fencers. Right's coach is upset and makes a fuss about the call. I was perfectly fine with the call because FotR wasn't a passive participant and, in fact, caused the contact that got himself knocked down. At JO's in February, I'm doing a pool in a men's event that had been going smoothly. One fencer's weapon worked through most of the testing but failed when they tested guards. I checked to make sure it wasn't the bodycord, gave him a Yellow for the weapon, and told him to get his spare. His spare comes up and doesn't fire. Again, I tell him to disconnect and test the bodycord which, now, isn't working. Ok, I think, maybe the cord finally went out now. I instruct him to get his spare cord and then retest the first weapon, and, if it passes, he'll just have the one card for the bodycord. His opponent's coach (who is a ref) was positively aghast that I would do such a thing. I calmly, but firmly tell him "No, this is how it's done," but that just leads him immediately to start calling for bout committee. Now, luckily, he's in no position to demand an appeal. I turn to his fencer and am like "Do you really want to?" Luckily, he was tired of this poo poo too and just wanted to fence. With that, I finished the check and got the bout on the way; even though I was pissed I had to deal with the circus and finished my pool late.
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Mar 25, 2015 03:29
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El Spamo posted:It's definitely not in the 'advantageous situation' column.  From the Battle of Luetzen mass grave excavation
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Mar 25, 2015 03:40
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HEY GAL posted:Check out this guy's arm:
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Mar 25, 2015 06:29
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HEY GAL posted:Check out this guy's arm: Interesting, although it doesn't say much about rapiers given that it's pretty much in the perfect place to have been caused by a strike from above by a cavalry sabre. 
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Mar 25, 2015 09:33
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Liquid Communism posted:Interesting, although it doesn't say much about rapiers given that it's pretty much in the perfect place to have been caused by a strike from above by a cavalry sabre. They didn't generally use sabers except in the east in this period. However there were plenty of wider-bladed swords running around, used by both infantry and cavalry. The damage we see could have been done by a few things, including polearms and shrapnel. It might even have been done post-mortem. Rodrigo Diaz fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 15:54
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It always amazes me how clean and precise things like that are in bone. Maybe that's a macabre thing to say. It's still pretty incredible. Speaking of jostling, there are some less-than-proper things that I've done in the heat of a bout. One guy I was fencing with was a very aggressive fleche'er (however you pluralize that) and would just not stop running into me. For the most part I just stood there. That's what I usually do anyway. If someone launches a fleche and I'm flat footed but I somehow manage to catch their blade I'll bend my knees a bit and plant it. Probably not the most effective thing but it is funny when they bounce off of you and body contact does stop the action. Anyway. So this guy is charging, charging, charging and I'm keeping myself from getting hit for the most part but the second or third time he had run into me I was bracing for the impact so as he comes in I bend my knees a bit and kinda... pop my butt out as he passes by giving him a bit of a hip check. He goes tumbling down and comes up looking at the ref for a card. The ref says "be more careful with your body contact." I thought it was funny. He kept on doing what he was doing, I didn't hip check him again, I think I ended the bout doubling him out. Fleches against french grips are not usually a good idea.
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Mar 25, 2015 16:35
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E: Welp, nevermind. PM received.
tirinal fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 07:48
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For those interested (and in the New York/New Jersey area), the Martinez Academy, along with the Raven Arts Institute, will be hosting the Spanish Martial Arts Weekend on May 29-31. Here's a video preview of the event. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrrNKTnZhs4 You can register here: http://www.martinez-destreza.com/calendar/spanish-martial-arts-weekend-2015
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Mar 26, 2015 16:56
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NEED TOILET PAPER posted:Where can I buy a good set of fencing equipment? I'm learning sabre right now and while the place I go to lets me sue some spare equipment they have lying around, nothing really fits me properly so sometimes I'll get a helmet that wobbles around like crazy and other assorted fun stuff. Sorry about the slow reply. You posted this just at the end of the page and I just now noticed it. You will typically get what you pay for with fencing masks/lames/jackets/pants. Online retailers (fencing.net, blue gauntlet, and absolute are my favs) have relatively consistent pricing for the big brands (uhlmann, FWF, etc), and then the retailers typically have their own "generic" brand for a lot less. Off-brand equipment is safe, effective, and cheap, but it just doesn't last like the good stuff. If you go that route I would recommend Absolute, since they have great customer service and will replace stuff if it breaks within the first few months. If you want stuff that lasts a bit longer, Uhlmann/Allstar is my pick. They are the same brand, but uhlmann is blue and allstar is red. Some people say Uhlmann tends to fit better on slender people, but I can't comment on that. If you have a lot of money and like spending it, Leon Paul is the Apple of fencing gear. It's quality equipment for sure, and a lot of people swear by it, but it is pretty pricey. I would stick with their lower-end gear, though, unless you are super competitive. Stay away from any "ultralight" lames (break easily) or FIE gear (required only internationally) unless you plan on being a hardcore competitor. Also, ignore "practice gear" and just get electric stuff from the start. With blades, throw everything I just said out the window and just use what feels best. Most people aren't willing to pay for all their gear at once, and will collect pieces over time. I would recommend going with the mask first, then a weapon, then the jacket, then the lame/body cord/mask cord, and finally the pants (sweatpants work fine for practice). Alternatively, buy a beginner set from Absolute, save a lot of money, and prepare yourself to replace some things down the line if you stick with the sport.
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Mar 28, 2015 04:18
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Just finished my first two-hour session. Impressions: - Right of way is complete bullshit, unless I score, in which case it's a perfect metric for aptitude, finesse, and good looks. - Everything hurts. - I can think of like 5 more elegant ways to design all the equipment. - 14 year old kids are vicious, bloodcrazed urchins who go for the knees. - Everything hurts. tirinal fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 05:53
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tirinal posted:Just finished my first two-hour session. Impressions: Also, if you are having problems with priority, just remember this: don't remise, instead stay calm, step back, parry and riposte. This will, at this stage, solve 95% of your problems. Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 13:00
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I did a 5 minute gauntlet last night (one fighter one minute each) to test my endurance wearing full gear. I did ok, and I got some neat footage from the first minute and a half. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IpgL-n6LDk Normal speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiCWW_QXacY Slow motion. I'm on the left at the start.
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Apr 5, 2015 00:21
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Verisimilidude posted:I did a 5 minute gauntlet last night (one fighter one minute each) to test my endurance wearing full gear. I did ok, and I got some neat footage from the first minute and a half. why doesnt one guy just thrust and stab the other dude when he misses his swing and leaves himself 100% open
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Apr 5, 2015 02:29
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curious lump posted:why doesnt one guy just thrust and stab the other dude when he misses his swing and leaves himself 100% open Generally the idea of HEMA fencing utilizes not only attacking but successfully defending yourself in the process. Someone may be open, but a thrust might not be possible without suffering the repercussion of an afterblow from the stabbed. You have to be judicious when you commit, especially to a thrust, which generally requires you to be more in measure than a cut might.
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Apr 5, 2015 03:26
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Verisimilidude posted:Generally the idea of HEMA fencing utilizes not only attacking but successfully defending yourself in the process. Someone may be open, but a thrust might not be possible without suffering the repercussion of an afterblow from the stabbed. You have to be judicious when you commit, especially to a thrust, which generally requires you to be more in measure than a cut might. you can close the line after making your attack, which should be at the same time as any counter blow from your opponent. of course, i dont do hema longsword so i might just be speaking from a position of ignorance
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Apr 5, 2015 03:33
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Also a two handed krumphau is likely fast enough to beat away a thrust even when you think the opponent is open.
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Apr 5, 2015 03:41
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What's the "lock-out" time generally considered to be? A thrust and fleche past would probably avoid a counterattack after the hit, but easier said than done. And is there much of a difference fencing a left-hander with a two-handed weapon? How big is the bout area compared to, say, kendo or boxing? It looks pretty claustrophobic to me, but I guess it does give you the option of retreating indefinitely (whereas on a piste there's only so much backing up you can do). Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 00:09
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Crazy Achmed posted:What's the "lock-out" time generally considered to be? A thrust and fleche past would probably avoid a counterattack after the hit, but easier said than done. And is there much of a difference fencing a left-hander with a two-handed weapon? They give you the tempo in which the first blow was dealt. Anything past that tempo is ignored. As a left-handed fencer, I can say that it's much different for most righties. They're used to openings being on the exact opposite of their targets, while I'm used to them winding to their normal side, leaving their right side exposed. I'm not sure about kendo or boxing, but the ring is generally 20-30 feet in diameter, which is larger than what we had during the filming of that fight. Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 00:20
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Verisimilidude posted:They're used to openings being on the exact opposite of their targets, while I'm used to them winding to their normal side, leaving their right side exposed.  I did this like half a dozen times yesterday.
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Apr 6, 2015 00:31
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P-Mack posted:
I gotta work on adjusting some things that I do because I'm pretty sure people are going to catch on to my one-trick pony, not to mention that I have an issue fighting lefties.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:00
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Yeah, my club's had no lefties for about six months now, but we just got a few new ones last beginners' course. I'm going to have to learn how to fence them again... don't ask me what it is, but they always seem like they're slightly further away than they really are when in a normal six en-garde. There were a couple of touches in that video where the defender did quite a quite parry that was too level (should have been a bit more angled) and got smacked in the wrist/forearm - was that as painful as it looked? And do you get a lot of sabre/epee-style poo poo with people trying for relatively quick slashes to the wrists and forearm?
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Apr 6, 2015 06:17
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Crazy Achmed posted:There were a couple of touches in that video where the defender did quite a quite parry that was too level (should have been a bit more angled) and got smacked in the wrist/forearm - was that as painful as it looked? And do you get a lot of sabre/epee-style poo poo with people trying for relatively quick slashes to the wrists and forearm? Level parries in longsword are actually a good thing. We have "good" parries and "bad" parries, where "good" is when your point is in line with your opponent, and "bad" is when it's not in line. The names are misnomers, because they're both effective, but essentially a good parry means you have immediate threat as opposed to having to reorient your weapon. That being said, a good parry is difficult to do all the time because you essentially have to shunt your opponent's weapon down the length of the blade until they stop moving. With sharp blades this is easier, as they will bite into one another, but with feders and similarly blunted weapons you end up having to really shunt it down to the crossguard. Hits do hurt sometimes, even with the gear we have. Gloves don't necessarily protect against pain, but they do stop your fingers from snapping, which is the most important part. I got caught in the stomach by P-Mack (I believe) on Saturday and it was a pretty solid hit. We do a lot of hand and forearm hits in our school. It comes from the JSA background my teacher's teacher has. I mean, the arm is the closest target in most cases, and while it might not kill someone to hew their arm, it will certainly dampen their ability to perform well (especially if they're now hand-less). We train not to do little taps though. We had a tendency to do a quick snap to the forearms or hands, but that would not be terrible effective in a real situation. Longpoint 2015 rules are changing to reflect this by implementing a rule where the sword must travel in an arc of at least 45 degrees for it to be considered a "quality" hit (otherwise you get zero points).
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Apr 6, 2015 15:25
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Verisimilidude posted:We do a lot of hand and forearm hits in our school. It comes from the JSA background my teacher's teacher has. I mean, the arm is the closest target in most cases, and while it might not kill someone to hew their arm, it will certainly dampen their ability to perform well (especially if they're now hand-less). We train not to do little taps though. We had a tendency to do a quick snap to the forearms or hands, but that would not be terrible effective in a real situation. Longpoint 2015 rules are changing to reflect this by implementing a rule where the sword must travel in an arc of at least 45 degrees for it to be considered a "quality" hit (otherwise you get zero points). That actually makes me wonder, does longsword usually make room for drawing or pushing cuts with the blade pressed against the opponent? From my (very limited) understanding that's something that's occasionally mentioned in some treatises, but I'm curious how often something like that would come up in sparring or competition.
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Apr 6, 2015 20:48
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Perestroika posted:That actually makes me wonder, does longsword usually make room for drawing or pushing cuts with the blade pressed against the opponent? From my (very limited) understanding that's something that's occasionally mentioned in some treatises, but I'm curious how often something like that would come up in sparring or competition. They probably /should/ come up more often than it does. Currently it's rather difficult to really see a drawing cut in action, so the new rule is that it has to be at least half of the blade being drawn across the target in order to "count" as a drawing cut (this is mostly general, and drawing cuts happen infrequently regardless). Push cuts are a bit more common (at least in the texts and in our school), and we practice variations of unterschnitt and oberschnitt (I might be misspelling those) where you seize an opening by pressing the edge of your sword against your opponent's forearms, pushing up in an unterschnitt, or down with an oberschnitt, in order to suppress an action from your opponent. We do it as part of a fuhlen drill (feeling drill, where you try to feel where your opponent's weapon is moving) where person A attacks person B, person B performs a "bad" parry, and after parrying moves their sword out of line (either by readying an attack or transitioning into another guard), and person A seizes the opportunity by moving forward and performing the action (oberschnitt/unterschnitt) before person B can complete theirs. I'm also interpreting "push" cuts differently (I think), in that we're using the sword to literally push someone's limbs.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:05
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Verisimilidude posted:They probably /should/ come up more often than it does. Currently it's rather difficult to really see a drawing cut in action, so the new rule is that it has to be at least half of the blade being drawn across the target in order to "count" as a drawing cut (this is mostly general, and drawing cuts happen infrequently regardless). Push cuts are a bit more common (at least in the texts and in our school), and we practice variations of unterschnitt and oberschnitt (I might be misspelling those) where you seize an opening by pressing the edge of your sword against your opponent's forearms, pushing up in an unterschnitt, or down with an oberschnitt, in order to suppress an action from your opponent. We do it as part of a fuhlen drill (feeling drill, where you try to feel where your opponent's weapon is moving) where person A attacks person B, person B performs a "bad" parry, and after parrying moves their sword out of line (either by readying an attack or transitioning into another guard), and person A seizes the opportunity by moving forward and performing the action (oberschnitt/unterschnitt) before person B can complete theirs.
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Apr 6, 2015 23:55
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Are points awarded to hits on the arm with the longsword? Is it worthwhile to base a significant part of your game around racking up points from forearm cuts and such? Also, and I'm sure there's a good reason for it, why aren't thrusts used more often?
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Apr 7, 2015 02:54
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El Spamo posted:Are points awarded to hits on the arm with the longsword? Is it worthwhile to base a significant part of your game around racking up points from forearm cuts and such? It depends on the rule system. In most systems the entire body (with the exception of the groin and the back of the head) is a potential target, with perhaps fewer points awarded to hits to the limbs as opposed to the head or torso. I've heard of systems where hand hits were illegal, but this was mostly an artifact of not having proper protective gear widely available. You can absolutely be really good at just sniping hands and forearms, but for the most part more modern systems reward hits to the head or thrusts to the torso so highly that it evens the gap, or in some cases makes high risk/high reward tactics very valuable. Thrusting is definitely under-utilized in general. I think Longpoint 2015 rules are trying to change that by making hits to the torso reward less points than thrusts to the torso. In my own personal training, I used to thrust a /lot/ (I think as an artifact of my rapier training) but I've since moved towards more hewing as I work on angles and body mechanics. My teacher has a mean thrust though, that comes completely out of nowhere.
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Apr 7, 2015 03:22
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There are quite a lot of good matches coming out of the current FIE GP. Here's some foil where you can watch Alexander Massialas being a dick by countering/remising with a point in line and letting his opponent walk into it. drat, those guys are scary fast.
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Apr 8, 2015 15:29
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Crazy Achmed posted:There are quite a lot of good matches coming out of the current FIE GP. Here's some foil where you can watch Alexander Massialas being a dick by countering/remising with a point in line and letting his opponent walk into it. drat, those guys are scary fast. Just curious, but are American fencers generally good?
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Apr 8, 2015 15:38
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Crazy Achmed posted:drat, those guys are scary fast. Sorry for the FB link, but this Max Heinzer practicing at home. The footwork is insane! https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1098038493555844&fref=nf
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Apr 8, 2015 18:20
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Verisimilidude posted:Just curious, but are American fencers generally good? Depends on the weapon (and gender). Women's Sabre we've always ha a good showing, what with Zagunis getting the first two Olympic Golds EVER. Men's Epee has had some good years, but Men's Sabre hasn't been much to write home about. Our Men's Foil team is really starting to pickup, though, and is a big product of the youth development. I mention this, because half the squad was at NCAA Champs.
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Apr 8, 2015 20:58
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Verisimilidude posted:Just curious, but are American fencers generally good? Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Apr 9, 2015 |
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Apr 9, 2015 01:56
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Watch (and critique) my fat rear end doing some practice cutting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgqj6dMEVxA
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Apr 10, 2015 03:27
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In case any of you historical fencing goons happen to be dicking around in Northern Europe in July, Guy Windsor's organizing another Fiore Extravaganza. This year's themes are wrestling, dagger and polearms.
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Apr 10, 2015 09:39
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Verisimilidude posted:Watch (and critique) my fat rear end doing some practice cutting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgqj6dMEVxA I'm a complete fencing noob (just started longsword this January), and I'm curious as to why, in the cutting that you're doing, your stance has the same foot forward as the should to which your sword is raised. It's probably because I'm so used to "right vom tag, left foot forward, left vom tag, right foot forward", but it just looks weird. Is it to avoid having to step to do a cut? Fake edit: Just tried swinging my longsword around in the kitchen like an idiot, and that's still my best guess, since it feels less awkward to temporarily hold an off-foot guard than it is to try to cut down toward your forward leg.
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Apr 11, 2015 03:41
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HappyKitty posted:I'm a complete fencing noob (just started longsword this January), and I'm curious as to why, in the cutting that you're doing, your stance has the same foot forward as the should to which your sword is raised. It's probably because I'm so used to "right vom tag, left foot forward, left vom tag, right foot forward", but it just looks weird. Is it to avoid having to step to do a cut? The way we teach it, at least for cutting in isolation, is that your forward foot shouldn't be in the path of your cut, otherwise you risk cutting into your own leg. This isn't a law, but more of a guideline. We also practice cutting without step to better isolate the body mechanics necessary in cutting. Things like hip rotation and speed, and more conceptual things like distance management.
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Apr 11, 2015 04:54
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Does anyone know of anywhere around Camp Pendleton where I could learn historical fencing? I have always had a fascination with the rapier but most HEMA around here is devoted to longsword.
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Apr 11, 2015 21:31
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Han Feizi posted:Does anyone know of anywhere around Camp Pendleton where I could learn historical fencing? I have always had a fascination with the rapier but most HEMA around here is devoted to longsword. I would suggest checking out the HEMA Alliance club finder, and if that doesn't work you could check out the HEMA Alliance Facebook group or /r/wma subreddit.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:19
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Awesome, thanks!
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Apr 12, 2015 00:17
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