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The Punisher would be interesting character to introduce in the series as a antagonist , he's a interesting character and initially is sympathetic. It'd be interesting to have him in the show.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:34
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XboxPants posted:I think he could work as either a villain or a morally gray ally, either for Daredevil or on any of the other series, like 1x06 Vladamir. And then you'd have to explicitly raise the issue of "is this guy any different from someone like Fisk?" I'd say he is. 1x13 Fisk's whole "savior" persona was a bullshit pretense all along, as he accepts in the "I'm not the Samaritan" speech. If improving the city and helping others was really his aim, he wouldn't be taking so much for himself, living in such luxury. He doesn't improve Hell's Kitchen for others, he does it for personal wealth and power. As Fisk himself said, he didn't kill his dad for his mother, he did it for himself. That's the thing with Punisher, though, he doesn't make personal sacrifices to help others, he makes personal sacrifices to hurt others - punisher sometimes ends up rescuing people by killing the people harming them, but that's not his priority or his goal. Oftentimes the punishment is way worse than the crime itself - he doesn't just go after murderers and rapists. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 23:37
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Guys I'm really confused, I just finished episode 13 and it was great but now it's not carrying through to the next episode, please advise 
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Apr 11, 2015 23:37
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Jose Oquendo posted:This. There's barely any references to the MCU itself. I only noticed 2 in the pilot. If there's more, please list them. Also there's no goddamn Infinity Gems in this. This is old, but in episode 3 The framed headlines behind the reporter's desk mostly relate to the destruction of NY during the Avengers
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Apr 11, 2015 23:41
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Vitamin P posted:The Punisher is trash and the MAX series was an ongoing punchline that turned south after a couple of episodes. The MCU will never do the Punisher because there's literally nothing to do, the character is fedora reddit pulp that got far too much attention because ITS NOT YOUR DADDYS SPIDERMAN. The Punisher doesn't just not fit the MCU, he doesn't fit anything, because the Punisher is a trash character. This is just wrong. The Punisher is pretty fantastic and could work in the MCU. Like, as a character Punisher role seems like he should be the straight man to the marvel universe's ridiculousness. He has no super powers, is "gritty", etc. But nope, he is actually one of the most over the top things in the Marvel universe. The guy actually weaponizes "ridiculousness" and basically has the super power of turning everything into an action set piece. The Marvel universe is already this crazy scary place but somehow Frank Castle always just makes things even crazier as a byproduct of trying to kill some mooks. Its hilarious.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:45
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Wolpertinger posted:That's the thing with Punisher, though, he doesn't make personal sacrifices to help others, he makes personal sacrifices to hurt others - punisher sometimes ends up rescuing people by killing the people harming them, but that's not his priority or his goal. Oftentimes the punishment is way worse than the crime itself - he doesn't just go after murderers and rapists. Yeah, that's a good point. I haven't read all that much Punisher, I didn't think of it, but you're totally right. It makes me even more convinced he'd make for a good questionable ally/villain, so that you could explore that contrast and the difference it makes.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:1x13 Yea I agree with this. For me the series felt like it started off strong and kept getting better and better peaking at ep 8. The rest of the episodes were ok, but didn't seem quite as good.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:47
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Wolpertinger posted:While I wouldn't go that far, I agree that I'm not so sure about Punisher being in the MCU. Punisher getting away with being a mass murderer with a kill count probably in the tens of thousands by this point despite there being superheroes everywhere is already pretty iffy with the more flexible comic book rules. It'd be even weirder on TV, especially if they try to portray him in any remotely positive light after the whole arc in Daredevil pretty much utterly rejecting a Punisher-style philosophy - he'd practically have more in common with Fisk. Just because Daredevil the series rejects the philosophy doesn't mean that Punisher the series would. They can both exist in the same "world". poo poo, Tony Stark's philosophy is pretty counter to Murdock's too. Given the other characters in the line up for Netflix shows I'd expect them to have philosophies that while complimentary to Daredevil's themes would also run counter to certain parts of the "Daredevil Philosophy". Which isn't to say that I'm hoping for a Punisher series. He's a character much more suited to limited mini series or movies. Also he's quite easy to gently caress up and hard to make a long term protagonist. Even 80s action movies had a goal or point outside the hundreds of dudes they blew away along the way. After some sort of Origin revenge kill, Punisher is just an assassin doing it for free and on his own orders. There's something good you could do with that, but the odds are not in favor of it being particularly good. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Yea I agree with this. For me the series felt like it started off strong and kept getting better and better peaking at ep 8. The rest of the episodes were ok, but didn't seem quite as good. The main problem is that the last episode was kind of rushed. In episode 13 the escape of Fisk and Daredevil hunting him down just happened all the sudden in the middle of the episode. It probably would have been better served with a whole episode of Fisk on the run as Daredevil hunted him than just kind of plopped down at the end of the episode so they could dramatically reveal the red costume. poo poo, all those trucks rushing to get him out of the city and a guy running around on rooftops managed to run them down after finding about it on the news, running home to change into his old suit, stopping by his tailor to get his new suit, changing, and then tracking them down, on foot remember, via walkie talkie communication. That would have been a bit of a stretch for Batman to do with all his gadgets. Gyges fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 23:48
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Wolpertinger posted:That's the thing with Punisher, though, he doesn't make personal sacrifices to help others, he makes personal sacrifices to hurt others - punisher sometimes ends up rescuing people by killing the people harming them, but that's not his priority or his goal. Oftentimes the punishment is way worse than the crime itself - he doesn't just go after murderers and rapists. In the MAX run, he pretty much does just go after murderers and rapists.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:48
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One of the problems with the Punisher is he only really was interesting once Garth Ennis got a hold of him before that he was basically boring guy. Except for Punisher 2099 which is what most people don't know Marshall Law book that makes fun of the Punisher. The problem though is Garth Ennis wrote him so well and brought so much to the character that's pretty much who the character is now. He's basically depicted as a broken human being.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:51
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Hollismason posted:He's basically depicted as a broken human being. This applies to 99% of the comic book protagonists though.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:53
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I think Punisher would work best as a wildcard that occasionally shows up in the different tv series. Keep him in the shadows a bit in the beginning, mostly hear about him through conversations between criminals or have the heroes come across the aftermaths of one of his rampages.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:56
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Yea I agree with this. For me the series felt like it started off strong and kept getting better and better peaking at ep 8. The rest of the episodes were ok, but didn't seem quite as good. This is basically exactly how I felt. I'm glad I'm not the only one. It was still really good, but the last act was the weakest. But... I suppose it is a TV series and not a movie. So I guess it makes sense that it wouldn't have a super satisfying awesome ending. I can forgive it a bit, since they're gonna continue the story in a very direct sense. Looks like Marvel still needs to figure out how to do a good ending a TV series.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:57
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Gyges posted:Just because Daredevil the series rejects the philosophy doesn't mean that Punisher the series would. They can both exist in the same "world". poo poo, Tony Stark's philosophy is pretty counter to Murdock's too. Given the other characters in the line up for Netflix shows I'd expect them to have philosophies that while complimentary to Daredevil's themes would also run counter to certain parts of the "Daredevil Philosophy". Yeah, they can, but the MCU (and comics in general, honestly) are generally pretty idealistic at heart, in the end, deep down - Even Daredevil is, beneath all the grit. It would just really jar with the tone of the whole universe they have going to show what he does as a good thing. I guess they don't have to necessarily show him in a good light though, you could just have a miniseries about him as a terrifying monster that ends up with him getting arrested or dying or leaving or something. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 00:07
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Yeah that's why people here have said it eventually just becomes the story of a serial killer who preys on criminals. The Punisher works as a fantastic antagonist to other characters , but as a protagonist beyond that first "I'm taking revenge" motive of his origin afterwards is just a serial killer story.
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Apr 12, 2015 00:10
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Rarity posted:Guys I'm really confused, I just finished episode 13 and it was great but now it's not carrying through to the next episode, please advise If it you hit your computer/blu-ray/whatever hard enough, 14 will start.
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Apr 12, 2015 00:10
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Musluk posted:This applies to 99% of the comic book protagonists though. Not really, the best comic characters have a classic, thematically repeatable story. The X men fly to mutant trouble then fly back to the mansion. Batman investigates strange events then punches something. Superman batters an alien/earthquake and plays with Lois and Jimmy. Spiderman fights a baddy and gets home to domesticity. Punisher doesn't have a story except 'shoots some drug dealing poors'. It's the same reason Wonder Woman can't carry a film, just with extra problematic.
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Apr 12, 2015 00:11
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I'm up to episode 12 of the show and I think its been good, but I can't really handle the Kingpin actor. His voice is really weird, and his cadence and inflection are unsettling in a bad way. Also his mandarin is terrible, but not too many people would get that.
Optimus Subprime fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 00:14
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Vitamin P posted:Not really, the best comic characters have a classic, thematically repeatable story. The X men fly to mutant trouble then fly back to the mansion. Batman investigates strange events then punches something. Superman batters an alien/earthquake and plays with Lois and Jimmy. Spiderman fights a baddy and gets home to domesticity. but... your Punisher and Batman example are basically the same. Punisher typically goes through the same investigation/tracking stuff as Batman, he just shoots people at the end. And really the "poors" thing can be applied to Batman as well.
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Apr 12, 2015 00:22
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mr.capps posted:but... your Punisher and Batman example are basically the same. Punisher typically goes through the same investigation/tracking stuff as Batman, he just shoots people at the end. And really the "poors" thing can be applied to Batman as well. It's almost like batman's 'don't kill' schtick and amazing rogues gallery make the difference
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Apr 12, 2015 00:26
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Except it really doesn't, Batman is often more "problematic" because his massive amount of wealth. edit: And "he has a better rogues gallery" doesn't make the character better. Just the rogue's gallery. Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 00:27
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Wolpertinger posted:Yeah, they can, but the MCU (and comics in general, honestly) are generally pretty idealistic at heart, in the end, deep down - Even Daredevil is, beneath all the grit. It would just really jar with the tone of the whole universe they have going to show what he does as a good thing. I guess they don't have to necessarily show him in a good light though, you could just have a miniseries about him as a terrifying monster that ends up with him getting arrested or dying or leaving or something. It really just depends on how they depict his war on crime. If he's just killing criminals left and right it probably won't work as a series. However if, for instance, he does missions against criminal institutions it might. Sort of an R rated A-Team. It's still a very tenuous character to bring in for their own series. Optimus Subprime posted:I'm up to episode 12 of the show and I think its been good, but I can't really handle the Kingpin actor. His voice is really weird, and his cadence and inflection are unsettling in a bad way. Also his mandarin is terrible, but not too many people would get that. I thought it was pretty clear that his mandarin sucked from the way he continued to haltingly talk like a giant goon exactly as he does in English. I don't think I've ever heard anyone passably speak a different language where the sound/tone and cadence of their voice doesn't change at all. He sounded like someone saying his dialog with the help of the Learn Chinese! side of fortune cookie fortunes. Which, given his stellar speeches in English, fit in perfectly with the character.
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Apr 12, 2015 00:30
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Optimus Subprime posted:I'm up to episode 12 of the show and I think its been good, but I can't really handle the Kingpin actor. His voice is really weird, and his cadence and inflection are unsettling in a bad way. Also his mandarin is terrible, but not too many people would get that. I have absolutely no idea about anything mandarin but I could still tell his chinese sounded super awkward, especially since they gave Gao as a comparison of how it was supposed to sound. It didn't take me out of it, though, I thought it was appropriate for him. He's still small-time compared to, like, Donald Trump or Tim Cook or something. I doubt he gets much practice, and he's also fundamentally selfish, so although intellectually he understands the value of respecting and understanding others, it's instinctually repellent to him to actually do that, so he might not put in the full effort. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 00:30
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Does anyone know the name of the song that plays during the last 3 minutes of episode 1?
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Apr 12, 2015 00:31
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1x08 lol at Wesley's face when he realizes everyone understands each other's languages
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Apr 12, 2015 00:37
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Question for someone whose competed the series. Is the level of violence consistent thru the full series? I'm up to EP. four.
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Apr 12, 2015 01:07
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1x13 In the first episode, I just noticed Karen asks Matt and Foggy if they're just a couple of "good samaritans". 
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Apr 12, 2015 01:13
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Darth Brooks posted:Question for someone whose competed the series. Is the level of violence consistent thru the full series? I'm up to EP. four. I don't think so, no. After the first few episodes there's plenty of fights and blood, but nothing quite as...intense as the first few episodes.
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Apr 12, 2015 01:14
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Finished. Blunt opinions: Sets some of the highest standard of television shows I've ever seen. Is it even fair to call this a "TV show?" I don't even know what it's going to be like to go back to watching standard network television after this. I'm honestly trying not to think about it. For whatever it's worth though, the show isn't perfect. As some have mentioned, episode 7 is strangely weak, and I don't think the rest of the season ever truly recovers from it. Compared to episodes 1-6, episodes 8-13 felt...I dunno, lethargic. At first I really liked the slower, methodical pacing the series uses to truly tell its story, but near the back end of the season I genuinely felt like it wasn't telling a story as much as it was padding for time. Hell, I'll just say it: I'm the guy who lost interest in Ben Urich's plot after the sixth or seventh Yet Another Drawn-Out Emotional Scene about him. Considering what happens to him at the end of episode 12 I certainly understand what they were trying to accomplish, yet the fact that he ends up dying made all those hours spent on his issues feel even more like wasted time to me. And considering the utterly badass and edge-of-your-seat way the show resolved the Russians plot, I felt a bit unsatisfied with the way they depicted the Owl and Madame Gao's "resolutions." The whole drug trafficking thing got wrapped up by Matt going into their den with a half-cocked plan that could've gotten everyone killed whilst the mastermind pulls an "I'll get you next time, my pretty, and your little dog too!"...and Leland signed his own death warrant in the weirdly stupidest way possible. And while I loved the Daredevil vs Kingpin fight at the end, I feel like it's a bit of a cocktease to show Fisk commanding an entire goddamn army to escape the police and then end up showing Daredevil leaping to the rescue by fighting...two...of them? At most? And I'm only saying this stuff 'cuz the rest of the show is so amazing, blah blah etc. The casting was perfect. Everything about the characters was so...stunning. Biggest surprise was how great the Wilson/Vanessa storyline was from beginning to end. I'd say that Fisk ended up having as much screentime and development as Murdock did, and usually that would be a flaw in a series but in this case it's a compliment all around. And Wesley. Wesley was aces. 
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Apr 12, 2015 01:41
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Confirmation that the hallway scene was in fact, one cut. I did really feel like there were moments where trickery was in play and I'd have wagered that it wasn't actually one shot. But I guess it was. Philip J Silvera, stunt coordinator posted:I was just about to ask you about that one-shot scene.
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Apr 12, 2015 01:55
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A few episodes in and yup the show is pretty awesome. The whole tone is also very different than Marvel's other TV shows like Agent of Shield, which is probably why I'm enjoying it. I did give Agents of Shield a try but gave up halfway through the season due to the plodding pace/monster of week episode format.
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Apr 12, 2015 02:01
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So I finished the show So what was Kingpin trying to actually achieve other than buying out properties and bulldozing them? Was he just trying to entrench his criminal empire or something? How was that going to make the city better? For all his talk about bettering the city, I have no clue what he actually meant by it. I thought it was pretty good, glad to see a hero tv show that doesn't feel like people trying to ape on Joss Whedon style writing for characters.
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Apr 12, 2015 02:10
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So a general question, I don't suppose they managed to sneak in any kind of high profile cameo from some other MCU movie characters? Just finished episode 4 and holy poo poo that car door scene 
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Apr 12, 2015 02:14
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Something I haven't seen mentioned is that whoever played young Matt did a really great job. For a kid, at least. So often you have kid actors that suck so bad and really take you out of it; having a child actor of his age who could act well enough to drive a scene was excellent. The younger version of the other character wasn't half bad either, but Matt was better imo. Also there can't be enough praise given to the score. Most of it was fairly subtle and in the background, but it was done extremely well, way beyond normal TV fare, and really enhanced the scenes and help set the mood. Question: what was Fisk's weird little plastic thing in the corner of his apartment? Trash can? Ash tray? R2D2? BrianWilly posted:For whatever it's worth though, the show isn't perfect. As some have mentioned, episode 7 is strangely weak, and I don't think the rest of the season ever truly recovers from it. quote:1x13 And while I loved the Daredevil vs Kingpin fight at the end, I feel like it's a bit of a cocktease to show Fisk commanding an entire goddamn army to escape the police and then end up showing Daredevil leaping to the rescue by fighting...two...of them? At most? 1x13 This. This is what would have worked for me. Fully actualized Daredevil 1.0 with armor & club versus not just Kingpin, but Kingpin and like 5 heavily armed paramilitary operatives, all at once. That would have been loving spectacular.
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Apr 12, 2015 02:15
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Optimus Subprime posted:So I finished the show So what was Kingpin trying to actually achieve other than buying out properties and bulldozing them? Was he just trying to entrench his criminal empire or something? How was that going to make the city better? For all his talk about bettering the city, I have no clue what he actually meant by it. 1X13 Destroy all the housing for the poor and lower class to build new housing for the rich and upper class. Fisk would end up owning almost the whole city, the Hand would have their city block, Leland would be getting fat stacks, and Madam Cao would be getting whatever it was she wanted. The Russians would have been killed somewhere along the way once they'd killed enough undesirables through drugs and violence while driving down property values in areas the group was looking to buy. End goal was a shining, modern metropolis gentrified to gently caress and without anyone undesirable ruining the city via existing.
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Apr 12, 2015 02:18
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You don't really need to spoil the fact that the real estate plan of any rich person is ultimately "gently caress the poor, lets kick them out". That's just a self-evident truth of the world. It's literally exactly as complicated as that in and out of the show. gently caress the poor, gently caress the crime that goes with them, lets flush their poo poo lives and put something productive in their place.
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Apr 12, 2015 02:20
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Gyges posted:1X13 lol well hell you don't need to command a underworld empire to gentrify a neighborhood, just open a couple whole foods and a couple soul cycles.
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Apr 12, 2015 02:22
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Optimus Subprime posted:So I finished the show So what was Kingpin trying to actually achieve other than buying out properties and bulldozing them? Was he just trying to entrench his criminal empire or something? How was that going to make the city better? For all his talk about bettering the city, I have no clue what he actually meant by it. Well, I got two answers. First one, my impression is that they'd bulldoze Hell's Kitchen and then rebuild it to be less lovely. Maintain order and high standards with an iron fist. Second one, we don't see a clear plan from Fisk 'cause maybe he didn't have one. His entire Good Samaritan Savior of the City persona was at least partly a pretense. He may have wanted to be that person, and there may have even been a good side to him... but, largely, he was just in it for personal power and wealth. Wilson Fisk is a scared little boy, and needs to feel safe. He's killing the Russian mob/his dad for the himself just as much as he's doing it for the city/his mother. Maybe only for himself. As of the end of the season, it looks like he's starting to either accept this is true, or decide that it is.
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Apr 12, 2015 02:23
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XboxPants posted:Question: what was Fisk's weird little plastic thing in the corner of his apartment? Trash can? Ash tray? R2D2?
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Apr 12, 2015 02:25
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BrianWilly posted:Infinity Stone. Calling it. Nah, that's the cufflinks.
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Apr 12, 2015 02:25
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