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Tokelau All Star posted:In a show with great action stuff, my favorite scenes had to be any conversation with the priest. I would have totally been on board with a series that was just Matt beating up some scumbags and then going to confession for the rest of the episode. Even though he's not as gigantic, I felt d'onofrio brought a certain physicality to the role Duncan didn't have. I think it's the choreography. The 2003 with MCD did brute strength with effects and the like, where this just had Kingpin beat the poo poo outta people in a psycho rage that felt natural. Been watching this with my mom while she bounces back from surgery, and it's kinda funny how often she gasps at the fight scenes. And makes excuses to see one more episode.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:54
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Since there are no more spoiler tags, I apologize to anyone who has the misfortune of reading this post without seeing so. I hate that they killed Urich. Not so much that it didn't fit, or how it was done, or any of that, but because I was really hoping to see him eventually pop back up, not only in the inevitable season 2 of this, but maybe even in a second season of Jessica Jones, doing the whole Pulse thing, which they seemed to be setting up with his decision to turn to the internet. Not to mention the possibility of him appearing in Spider-Man. Seems like a waste of story potential in service of making Fisk more threatening when we already know by this point in the series that he's not to be hosed with. It's the one thing that seemed like it was done more for shock value than anything else.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:55
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TheJoker138 posted:Since there are no more spoiler tags, I apologize to anyone who has the misfortune of reading this post without seeing so. He's such a useful character! There were some great stories that focused on him, and he was also useful for plot reasons to both Daredevil and Spider-man, so yeah, I think they made a bad call there.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:57
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I hope someday superhero show/movie writers will realize that finding out that your best friend has a secret life as a superpowered superhero is a completely awesome thing to happen and no one should get lovely about it.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:03
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Eh, I don't see Pulse working on TV. But yeah, Ben's death was tough. He is one of my favorite characters in the comics and I really loved this interpretation of him.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:05
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ChickenMedium posted:I hope someday superhero show/movie writers will realize that finding out that your best friend has a secret life as a superpowered superhero is a completely awesome thing to happen and no one should get lovely about it. "You're a superhero? That's so awesome. Hey can you do the dishes in the sink? They've been there for like 3 days."
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Apr 13, 2015 08:05
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ChickenMedium posted:I hope someday superhero show/movie writers will realize that finding out that your best friend has a secret life as a superpowered superhero is a completely awesome thing to happen and no one should get lovely about it. This was one of the best parts of Ultimate Spider-Man (the comic not the cartoon)
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Apr 13, 2015 08:07
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ChickenMedium posted:I hope someday superhero show/movie writers will realize that finding out that your best friend has a secret life as a superpowered superhero is a completely awesome thing to happen and no one should get lovely about it. 
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Apr 13, 2015 08:08
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mr.capps posted:Eh, I don't see Pulse working on TV. Depending on what direction they go with Jessica Jones it would have been cool to see at least some of her time working with Ben, using her PI stuff for journalism. I don't think you could sustain a full season of that, but it would have been at least an interesting starting point. Maybe it ends when the Bugle buys them out and absorbs them or something, and Jessica gets fired for mouthing off to JJ, and then Urich could have been in Spider-Man 2 or whatever. It's just a waste, because as dj_clawson said, he's a really useful character, and one that doesn't have an easy replacement you can slot in with him being gone. Other than that I think this show is about as close to perfect as you can get for a Daredevil origin story. I look forward to seeing Elektra and Bullseye next season, because they've set them both up in some nice, subtle ways. By the way, anyone here buy into the theory that the sniper who shot the cops was Bullseye? He did have playing cards in his gun bag.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:10
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They still kinda have a newspaper character, with Ben's boss. I doubt they will use him, but I guess the option is there. Though nobody can replace Ben
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Apr 13, 2015 08:11
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Even though he's not as gigantic, I felt d'onofrio brought a certain physicality to the role Duncan didn't have. I think it's the choreography. The 2003 with MCD did brute strength with effects and the like, where this just had Kingpin beat the poo poo outta people in a psycho rage that felt natural. Physicality is the perfect word for what I was thinking. Something about his punches, there was so much rage in there. He put his whole weight behind them. ChickenMedium posted:I hope someday superhero show/movie writers will realize that finding out that your best friend has a secret life as a superpowered superhero is a completely awesome thing to happen and no one should get lovely about it. As for a show that did this really well (spoilers for a show that ended three years ago): Morgan finding out that Chuck was a spy in Season 3 is probably the best moment of the whole series. My best friend is a spy! Awesome! Let's take down these dirtbags!
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Apr 13, 2015 08:17
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mr.capps posted:They still kinda have a newspaper character, with Ben's boss. I doubt they will use him, but I guess the option is there. "Hi, I'm Ben Urich jr. Please, just call me Ben."
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Apr 13, 2015 08:19
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Drifter posted:"Hi, I'm Ben Urich jr. Please, just call me Ben." It's a reverse Nick Fury, Jr., where for some reason Ben's kid is white and looks just like he does in the comics. For serious though, I think they might do just this with Owl's son.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:21
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Tokelau All Star posted:Physicality is the perfect word for what I was thinking. Something about his punches, there was so much rage in there. He put his whole weight behind them. He seriously looked like all he wanted to do was kill somebody. It made him way more threatening than any other Marvel villain by a long shot.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:22
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Yeah I am bummed about Ben getting killed off he seems like a perfect recurring character that they can insert into multiple franchises.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:24
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TheJoker138 posted:Since there are no more spoiler tags, I apologize to anyone who has the misfortune of reading this post without seeing so. I'm not sure I agree with killing Urich either. But then again I only wanted him around as a legacy character to tie the other shows together. But you can't really argue that it was done for shock value since there was a constant "I'm too old for this poo poo" / "three days from retirement" vibe to his character through out. There was more than one occasion where it felt like they were going to kill him off. I'm just surprised they actually did it.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:27
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It just seemed like a very "next episode is the last, so we have to raise the stakes, so let's kill a named character from the comics" thing.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:32
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Yeah I was hoping that Urich would be the MCU's Coulson for the Netflix shows. Plus, that actor killed in in the role. Here's what I want to explore: What was Fisk's relationship with Gau? She was the only one of the crime bosses he respected, something that was pointed out in show a number of times. Someone earlier wondered if Gau was grooming Fisk in a similar fashion to what Stick was doing with Murdock, I think there might be something to that.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:32
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That could explain how such an angry autist could rule a city's underground.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:33
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What's Gao deal anyway? I know people have said that she's an Iron Fist mystic voodoo magic character, but why specifically would such a person be interested in controlling the NYC heroin trade? (even at the end with Leland she's all like "well I don't really care anyway so I'm gonna go home now!")
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Apr 13, 2015 08:36
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Gau is obviously from K'un L'un, and connected to the Steel Serpent, what with it being the name of her heroin and all. She's probably the Crane Mother. E: Like Kobu and The Hand, I think her intentions were left intentionally vague, and we'll probably get more on it in Iron Fist and Defenders. I'm pretty sure that The Hand needed those few specific blocks because they're going to build something like Shadowland there. Vince MechMahon fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 08:37
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LORD OF BUTT posted:The Punisher doesn't have to be portrayed as a one-hundred-percent-right hero and is frequently more interesting when he isn't. In Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX, he's only the hero because the villains are far worse, and the comic doesn't just use this as a winking justification for him butchering people, it's actually a serious thing that he's shown frequently wrestling with. I think the problem with having the Punisher as a protagonist is that in order for it the audience to sympathize with him, then the villains he goes after have to be so absolutely evil that the Punisher is justified in killing them. And then move onto the next horrible example of man's inhumanity to man, then the Punisher kills them, and so on. After a while it just kind of becomes a slog, that's why I gave up on Ennis' Punisher. I agree thought that he would make a pretty good Daredevil antagonist as the bad guy with some good points who can challenge Matt's ideals.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:44
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Xtanstic posted:What's Gao deal anyway? I know people have said that she's an Iron Fist mystic voodoo magic character, but why specifically would such a person be interested in controlling the NYC heroin trade? (even at the end with Leland she's all like "well I don't really care anyway so I'm gonna go home now!") Mystic kung fu character, not voodoo. The heroin was a means to an end, Fisk may be her earth realm champion or a pawn to prepare earth to merge with her dimension. I don't know, but I agree that we'll find out in Iron Fist, with mayeb more clues sprinkled throughout the rest of the series. Wesley is probably the reason Fisk was able to amass his criminal empire. I can't imagine that anyone outside the other heads ever actually met him in person. RIP Wesley, you were too good (bad) for this world.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:50
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I don't necessarily think Gao was grooming him for anything. Kingpin was using Gao for her heroin. As Leland put it without her heroin the amount of disposable income will drop considerably.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:51
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dj_clawson posted:He's such a useful character! There were some great stories that focused on him, and he was also useful for plot reasons to both Daredevil and Spider-man, so yeah, I think they made a bad call there. Possibly. I suspect what happened was the writers realized they'd made Fisk too sympathetic. And a scene where he personally murders a character we've grown to care about was the best way to remind us he's the villain. I support the decision dramatically, because it elevated the stakes and contributed a lot of pathos to the show. I wasn't necessarily sold on D'Onofrio's take on Fisk at first...the violent man-child thing seemed like an odd choice. But the flashbacks actually helped a lot to crystalize the point of that, and now I'm into it. This take on Kingpin is the opposite of the Michael Clarke Duncan's. Fisk in this show *resents* the things that make him so formidable. He's physically defined by his hugeness, but his personality is the exact opposite: meek, awkward, stilted. Other versions of the character thrive on attention, and embrace the spotlight with their white suit. But this version is sheepish and quiet. He's happiest when he's serving Vanessa fancy wine, and angriest when someone reminds him of who he REALLY is: a fat kid with an rear end in a top hat dad who grew up in blue collar poverty. The bourgeois affectations make sense in light of this, because that's what his aspirational self is. His father was crude and loud and abrasive, so Wilson tries to be this restrained, refined aristocrat. He wears bundled up black suits and sits in starkly modernist furniture, and every morning he has his OCD ritual of gourmet food and classical music, literally trying to forget his nightmarish youth. His extreme awkwardness is appropriate, because he's playing this role that is a complete fantasy. The irony, of course, is that the apish, violent monster his father wanted him to be - the thing he wishes he wasn't - is who he NEEDS to be in order to achieve his goals. That's how I interpreted his speech about the Good Samaritan. His sobering realization that he can never stop being the fat, violent, sadistic behemoth he resisted being. He's not some Prince of Hell's Kitchen or some wealthy altruist who hangs out in art galleries. He's his father's son. He gets the big, billowy white suit from the comics in the end...in jail. Staring at the wall once again, the way his dad told him to.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:52
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But if it was only the heroin, why did Fisk constantly go out of his way to treat her with respect and consult her? Leland was the only other crime head Fisk interacted with to the same degree amd he was constantly treated as an underling. Fisk meant something to Gau (Gau or Gao), otherwise why would she waste her time on Earth running drugs instead of awesome inscruitable evil kung-fu things?
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Apr 13, 2015 08:54
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Something I really liked about D'Onofrio's performance was his subtle body movements. One of the first things you see him do is twitch his right hand. Several episodes later, you see his father's hand twitch the same way as he was dying on the floor. He's such a wholly broken person, and it shows. I'd also like to commend the kid who played young Matt. Most kid versions of people are horrible (see: The Flash), but that kid was fantastic. Especially when Stick smacked him in the face and he fell over like a board when training. I had to rewind that one.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:56
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Since the Punisher was being discussed, I was thinking about that very thing early today. I just don't know if you can ask a wide, general audience to buy that character after all the real life police poo poo that's been happening and in the news lately. It would just seem kind of gross and off to portray a guy acting like he does as a hero. I bet Marvel is glad as gently caress that the terrible sounding TV show where he was a cop by day and the Punisher by night never got off the ground at this point, though.Soonmot posted:But if it was only the heroin, why did Fisk constantly go out of his way to treat her with respect and consult her? Leland was the only other crime head Fisk interacted with to the same degree amd he was constantly treated as an underling. Fisk meant something to Gau (Gau or Gao), otherwise why would she waste her time on Earth running drugs instead of awesome inscruitable evil kung-fu things? She straight up says it wasn't about the heroin, that was just convenient, so she had some other motivation for being here that I don't think had anything to do with Fisk personally. And he treats her like that because Fisk treats every woman we see him interacting with like that, probably all due to his weirdo relationship with his mother. And he consults her because she's old as gently caress and obviously been doing this for a long time, and had good advice. He treated Kobu with respect right up until he got out of line, too. Vince MechMahon fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 08:59
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Xealot posted:Possibly. I suspect what happened was the writers realized they'd made Fisk too sympathetic. And a scene where he personally murders a character we've grown to care about was the best way to remind us he's the villain. I support the decision dramatically, because it elevated the stakes and contributed a lot of pathos to the show. Holy poo poo those flashbacks were the darkest thing this show, and this show had a lot of dark things. Ben was kind of a dick for trying to call him on that. Or, Karen was a dick for pushing Ben to call Fisk on that. I liked the choice - I think if Fisk had been the comic character, he would have been silly and the main problem Marvel has is that the villains are silly and we don't care about them. I legitimately felt for Fisk a lot of the time. If he'd just explained, "Uh, yeah, so I killed my dad to save my mom's life and I've never been able to escape from that horrible, traumatizing incident despite how hard I've worked to put it behind me," that would have put an end to that blog post. The post-credits seen I wanted was Eames telling her boss that Goren's gone WAY too deep undercover.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:00
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You know, it's kind of weird that there was no post-credits thing on the last episode. Just a brief teaser for Jessica Jones or whatever.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:04
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I want Netflix to make every show. They have got to have more hits than busts at this point. So I haven't read the comics. Was this an origin story for Fisk or is his arc finished? Will Daredevil use new villains next season? I am just curious because I want to start mindlessly speculating about next season but the series wrapped up pretty neatly so I don't have much to use. P.S. I will miss you Ben Urlich. 
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Apr 13, 2015 09:04
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Soonmot posted:But if it was only the heroin, why did Fisk constantly go out of his way to treat her with respect and consult her? Leland was the only other crime head Fisk interacted with to the same degree amd he was constantly treated as an underling. Fisk meant something to Gau (Gau or Gao), otherwise why would she waste her time on Earth running drugs instead of awesome inscruitable evil kung-fu things? Why would you not respect an old lady who brought you tons of money? Furthermore if Kingpin meant anything to her why would she, Nobu and Leland talk about him behind his back? They were all using each other for their connections. The last conversation Gao had with Leland he asked her to ship in more heroin. She declined as she only dealt with heroin because it was convenient for her. Since it was no longer convenient she was going home.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:06
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old dog child posted:I want Netflix to make every show. They have got to have more hits than busts at this point. He's in jail. Not dead. That never slowed Kingpin down.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:07
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old dog child posted:I want Netflix to make every show. They have got to have more hits than busts at this point. Kingpin is a guy who's always there, like Lex Luthor for Superman. He'll buy his way out of jail and go right back to doing what he always does. The other things set up that could be for season 2 are the mention of a "greek girl" in college, which is Elektra. Matt saying it didn't work out is the understatement of all time. If she's in, then we'll be seeing more of Stick and The Hand (Nobu's ninja group) and probably also Bullseye.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:10
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Soonmot posted:But if it was only the heroin, why did Fisk constantly go out of his way to treat her with respect and consult her? Leland was the only other crime head Fisk interacted with to the same degree amd he was constantly treated as an underling. Fisk meant something to Gau (Gau or Gao), otherwise why would she waste her time on Earth running drugs instead of awesome inscruitable evil kung-fu things? I think Fisk may have just respected Gao because, well she's a little old lady, who is also the head of an international drug syndicate. The Russians were thugs, Nobu was a representative for the Yakuza/The Hand, but he wasn't the head guy, and Leland was a money launderer who never got his hands dirty himself. Compare that to Gao, who has a job in a very violent industry, and probably a hundred law enforcement agencies who would like to bust her, yet she managed to grow old doing very illegal things. So her advice is probably worth at least listening to.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:10
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I think the most important thing season 2 can focus on though is Stilt Man
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Apr 13, 2015 09:11
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old dog child posted:I want Netflix to make every show. They have got to have more hits than busts at this point. Kingpin is basically crimegod of New York. He SHOULD be back at some point bigger and badder, more devious and stronger than ever.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:12
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Gao was probably just forming connections and getting a feel for the "real" world. Her whole deal was likely just setting up and intelligence gathering for some future endeavor.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:12
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mr.capps posted:I think the most important thing season 2 can focus on though is Stilt Man If they don't follow up on that then gently caress them forever. I have a feeling Betty is going to get killed in a revenge plot by Kingpin next go around as well, causing Potter to totally lose it and become Gladiator. It will be interesting to see if they handle it as well as Bendis did in the comics, with Matt feeling sorry for him and trying to talk him down, or if he just goes all punchy right away as seems to be Daredevil's natural response in this show.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:14
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old dog child posted:I want Netflix to make every show. They have got to have more hits than busts at this point. Honestly, this. This was so much more satisfying than a 2-3 hour movie. I even love the lighthearted silly CGI-heavy marvel stuff too, it's a shame they can never get the TV treatment too - The marvel movies often end up feeling especially shallow even if they are fun, because they have to shove an entire comic book plot, plus oftentimes character origins and introductions, into just 2-3 hours. Sadly, everything to do with the movie characters are so expensive that even having a cameo for any of them outside of Fury was out of the question, even for Agents of SHIELD which was tied closely to the plot of several of the movies, and tv characters can't be used in the movies because they don't want to make any of the TV shows required watching, so it seems like there will always be this sort of awkward barrier between tv stuff and movie stuff. Even though most of the Avengers stuff showing up in Daredevil would have been pretty silly at this point, considering how many movies they plan on making in the future, having all characters from all the movies being no-shows in the TV shows and vice versa seems like it could become unpleasantly restrictive. Coulson being alive and the director of SHIELD, but also having been confirmed as never speaking to any of the Avengers again for any of the many future MCU movies, many of which will no doubt involve the new SHIELD, is sort of an example of this. Essentially I just think everything would be way more fun if it could get the TV series/miniseries treatment instead. But I guess there just isn't as much money there.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:27
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