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Misogynist: Better QA engineer than Radium.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:40
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Any other Pingtone customers in here suffering?
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Apr 13, 2015 14:12
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Just got word that the recruiter's client declined to continue the interview process because the want someone with more experience. Despite the fact that they're paying 25% less that I'm making now. I was only considering it because it had some good benefits. Eh. Not considering that a great loss. Happy Monday!
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Apr 13, 2015 15:22
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Is it common for companies to offer paid training in exchange for a contract, e.g., we pay for a $3000 training and you agree to stay for x years or pay back the training? What kind of ratios are common/reasonable? 1 year for $1000, 1 year for $5000 etc?
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Apr 13, 2015 15:34
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Is it common for companies to offer paid training in exchange for a contract, e.g., we pay for a $3000 training and you agree to stay for x years or pay back the training? Our company does something like this, but I'm not sure of the ratio. I'd get it in writing that if you are terminated by them that you're not responsible for that cost.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:40
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Is it common for companies to offer paid training in exchange for a contract, e.g., we pay for a $3000 training and you agree to stay for x years or pay back the training? Yes, it's exceedingly common my last employer spent probably $3k with minimum of one year. I doubt you'll be able to negotiate getting out of paying back if you're terminated. Your employer wants to see a return on their investment.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:45
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1 year is pretty typical. I agree with Richard - definitely make sure it's only if you leave, not if you get laid-off/fired. Also, don't let them pressure you into signing a contract for a training THEY want you to get. If they need someone with the training, they need to be stuck with the risk. If it's something you want to get and it's going to help your career, it makes sense for them to make sure you're not just going to use their money for a $5k cert and turn around blasting your resume out with it on there.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:47
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I don't think any employer is going to be comfortable potentially having a employee run away with $5k in training because they got themselves fired.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:54
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Tab8715 posted:I don't think any employer is going to be comfortable potentially having a employee run away with $5k in training because they got themselves fired. Large companies are. Big companies don't want to have to explain why they let you go because they don't want to open themselves up to lawsuits. A fortune 100 I used to work at rarely (if ever) "fired" people, they were simply "no longer employed by $company." In that case, you didn't owe any money back. If someone called to check references, HR wouldn't say any more than the dates you worked there and what your title was/is.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:57
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That hasn't been my experience in the slightest but if this is something you're able to pull off then more power to you. I know more than a few who've left early only to see a large chunk of their last paycheck missing.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:00
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KillHour posted:1 year is pretty typical. I agree with Richard - definitely make sure it's only if you leave, not if you get laid-off/fired. To put this another way; training you are requested to take generally comes out of a departmental "training budget" bucket with no strings. There's also a global compensation policy for continuing education that originates from HR and generally comes with a "pay us back if you leave" clause. It's important to know the difference.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:00
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Tab8715 posted:That hasn't been my experience in the slightest but if this is something you're able to pull off then more power to you. It depends on how risk-averse the company is. They also wouldn't take the money out of your paycheck if you left - they made you write them a personal check and sign a form saying you paid them of your own free will. Bhodi posted:To put this another way; training you are requested to take generally comes out of a departmental bucket with no strings. There's also a global compensation policy for continuing education that originates from HR and generally comes with a "pay us back if you leave" clause. It's important to know the difference. Yes, any training you have to pay back should be functionally identical to tuition reimbursement and shouldn't be tied to what you need to perform your job, or even what you need to progress in your career with the company (they can't use your next promotion as a carrot on a stick to make you get a training you have to sign a contract for). You should also be able to refuse any offered training that carries a reimbursement policy without it affecting your job. Edit: I'm not saying this is how all companies do it, I'm saying this is how to do it above-board. KillHour fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 16:01
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Tab8715 posted:That hasn't been my experience in the slightest but if this is something you're able to pull off then more power to you. That is definitely pretty ballsy and probably super uncommon. Messing with an employees final paycheck (or their paycheck in general) is a very protected thing and leaves you open to a lot of litigation. I would assume the vast majority treat it as the hallow threat it is or hope you voluntarily give them the money. KillHour posted:It depends on how risk-averse the company is. They also wouldn't take the money out of your paycheck if you left - they made you write them a personal check and sign a form saying you paid them of your own free will. My condolences to anyone that actually gives their employer money out of the kindness of their own heart. Sickening fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 16:49
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Sickening posted:That is definitely pretty ballsy and probably super uncommon. Messing with an employees final paycheck (or their paycheck in general) is a very protected thing and leaves you open to a lot of litigation. I would assume the vast majority treat it as the hallow threat it is or hope you voluntarily give them the money. It's just to cover their asses. If you don't pay, they'll take you to court (I've seen it).
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Apr 13, 2015 16:57
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We don't have a policy in place for training courses, as those fall outside of our normal tuition reimbursement program. Tuition reimbursement though is 12 month payback that decreases 1/12th as you go along. If you stay 6 months you only owe 50% and so on. IT Training that I've had the company pay for though doesn't have a letter grade assigned to it, so it falls outside our normal tuition reimbursement program, I just expense it. Expensive courses though are usually covered by vendor credits we get when we buy stuff (EMC/Microsoft)
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Apr 13, 2015 17:38
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skipdogg posted:We don't have a policy in place for training courses, as those fall outside of our normal tuition reimbursement program. Tuition reimbursement though is 12 month payback that decreases 1/12th as you go along. If you stay 6 months you only owe 50% and so on. I interviewed and accepted a job at a company that promised full tuition reimbursement along with a list of certs I told them i wanted to get. The office was right next to a college campus, so it was going to be super convenient. After settling in and showing that I was valuable, I mentioned it in my mid-year review. The director was like "lol nope, sorry, we changed our mind, how does getting your BS in computer science help us?" I was furious. They told the same thing to my manager, he was invited to some crazy Harvard business development course, and when he interviewed for the job he told them he was applying for that class, and they agreed to pay for it and give him the necessary time off for it (it was like 2 days a week for a semester). When he actually got accepted to the program he brought it up to them and they told him the same thing, they weren't going to pay for it or give him the time off. Then they fired him two weeks later, and then offered me his job, then rescinded the promotion for "legal reasons", then offered it to me again while telling someone else they wanted to promote them, but wanting to see who did the job better before they made it permantent. It was a weird experience. I guess I can share the story later if anyone cares.
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Apr 13, 2015 18:57
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SIR FAT JONY IVES posted:I interviewed and accepted a job at a company that promised full tuition reimbursement along with a list of certs I told them i wanted to get. The office was right next to a college campus, so it was going to be super convenient. After settling in and showing that I was valuable, I mentioned it in my mid-year review. The director was like "lol nope, sorry, we changed our mind, how does getting your BS in computer science help us?" I was furious. They told the same thing to my manager, he was invited to some crazy Harvard business development course, and when he interviewed for the job he told them he was applying for that class, and they agreed to pay for it and give him the necessary time off for it (it was like 2 days a week for a semester). When he actually got accepted to the program he brought it up to them and they told him the same thing, they weren't going to pay for it or give him the time off. Jesus, it's poo poo like that that drives people postal. I think we should add a big rear end disclaimer to the title "If poo poo isn't in writing then it isn't going to happen!". It used to be that when a company representative promised something verbally then the company upheld its' end of the deal. I find it infuriating that any company thinks it can pull that poo poo and not have it come back and bite them on the rear end.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:38
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Daylen Drazzi posted:It used to be that when a company representative promised something verbally then the company upheld its' end of the deal. I find it infuriating that any company thinks it can pull that poo poo and not have it come back and bite them on the rear end. Every job contract I've ever signed had a section saying "any verbal commitments not outlined in this document are worth exactly nothing". In a situation where money and time off for classes is available and outside existing policy, why would anyone ever think it's ok to NOT get it in writing?
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Apr 13, 2015 19:58
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NeuralSpark posted:Every job contract I've ever signed had a section saying "any verbal commitments not outlined in this document are worth exactly nothing". In a situation where money and time off for classes is available and outside existing policy, why would anyone ever think it's ok to NOT get it in writing? I know, I should have gotten it in writing. The company in question was sort of a startup at the end of being a startup, it was changing to a mid-sized company but didn't have the business processes in place to support it yet. When I asked for a handbook to review all these items before I took it they told me they didn't really have one yet and sent me sort of a strange PDF of a draft of one, but it wasn't the final version. I took the job (even with out the offer of tuition it was a really good move) but in the future I'll be more savvy.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:31
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NeuralSpark posted:Every job contract I've ever signed had a section saying "any verbal commitments not outlined in this document are worth exactly nothing". In a situation where money and time off for classes is available and outside existing policy, why would anyone ever think it's ok to NOT get it in writing? I know it's a flight of fancy, but I wonder how companies would handle it if employees began to refuse to do anything not specifically written up. After all, if it's not wrote down then it's obviously not something that can be enforced. Yeah, I know it's a dumb thought, and that wonderful phrase "and other duties as assigned" is intended to cover such an issue, plus the company can just fire you, but a guy can dream, right?
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Apr 13, 2015 21:38
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Daylen Drazzi posted:that wonderful phrase "and other duties as assigned" is
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Apr 13, 2015 21:39
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Daylen Drazzi posted:I know it's a flight of fancy, but I wonder how companies would handle it if employees began to refuse to do anything not specifically written up.
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Apr 13, 2015 22:09
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Is it common for companies to offer paid training in exchange for a contract, e.g., we pay for a $3000 training and you agree to stay for x years or pay back the training? I've had something similar at other jobs. Like you have to work a full year after training to not be financially liable. Although from talking to some HR co-workers it's all but unenforceable. If some company had the balls to actually take it out of your last paycheck they can open themselves up legal action.
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Apr 13, 2015 22:20
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I don't see an issue with a company expecting you to stick around after they put you through a VCP or something, but they should achieve that by giving you interesting poo poo to do and treating you like they don't want you to leave. And if in the 4 months following the cert you do a few billable projects and turn around 45k of profit then they shouldn't give a gently caress that your training cost x and a year hasn't passed yet.
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Apr 13, 2015 22:22
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I'm slowly starting to go insane from Dell Support's hold music. Help.
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Apr 13, 2015 23:39
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CLAM DOWN posted:I'm slowly starting to go insane from Dell Support's hold music. Help. It's just to prep you for the full on Lovecraftian Horror that is Dell Support. You need to fail several SAN checks in a row so you'll take their advice at face value.
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Apr 14, 2015 00:31
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At my last job I had to hold for two hours once. The music loop was about 45 seconds long.
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Apr 14, 2015 00:40
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I like when the hold music has a brief pause where it sounds like you're getting connected and then a recorded voice lets me know that my call is important.
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Apr 14, 2015 01:03
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I like when the hold music has a brief pause where it sounds like you're getting connected and then a recorded voice lets me know that my call is important. "Your call is important to us (but not enough that we will pay out money to provide faster or more knowledgeable support). Please hold for the next available representative."
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Apr 14, 2015 01:13
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Daylen Drazzi posted:"Your call is important to us (but not enough that we will pay out money to provide faster or more knowledgeable support). Please hold for the next available representative." "Press 1 to leave a message and representative will get back to you" And you drat well better press it RIGHT loving NOW, or you'll have to loop through the entire Kenny-G greatest hits, again, before you get another opportunity.
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Apr 14, 2015 01:29
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Or webex telling me "your conference will begin shortly. Please continue to hold" Bitch you don't know when / if the host is getting on! Don't lie to me!
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Apr 14, 2015 02:10
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Sickening posted:That is definitely pretty ballsy and probably super uncommon. Messing with an employees final paycheck (or their paycheck in general) is a very protected thing and leaves you open to a lot of litigation. I would assume the vast majority treat it as the hallow threat it is or hope you voluntarily give them the money. Some of the contractors I worked with in Afghanistan would have there travel expenses contingent on working for 6 months overseas and a bonus of 15-25% of their total compensation after filling out a whole year. So there wouldn't be any money coming out of your paycheck if you switched companies for a better offer, but you wouldn't be getting those expenses reimbursed if you don't work there.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:33
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KillHour posted:Large companies are. Big companies don't want to have to explain why they let you go because they don't want to open themselves up to lawsuits. A fortune 100 I used to work at rarely (if ever) "fired" people, they were simply "no longer employed by $company." In that case, you didn't owe any money back. I can confirm that Dell at least doesn't give a crap if they fire you after they paid for like 30 certs. This has come to bite them in the rear end time and again. They hired a guy who was sick of his previous job. The guy stays until he gets his MCSA and leaves two weeks after his MCP profile shows he had the cert. Boy was my boss angry. Also confirming that reference check too. I had to get a damned signed letter from them saying I held position $CakeWalk and was paid $wampum. I don't know what do prospective employers expect from a reference. Do they want to know my size or whether I wear tighty whiteys or boxers?
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Apr 14, 2015 02:49
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TerryLennox posted:I don't know what do prospective employers expect from a reference.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:07
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I just got back from a store where the full version of the song with the 45 second loop I heard 2 hours of was playing. That was sureal.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:04
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TerryLennox posted:I had to get a damned signed letter from them saying I held position $CakeWalk and was paid $wampum. Holy hell. Never, never, never. That is not an employer I would ever want to work for. And my CV has a "references available upon request". And even then, it's a phone number and what their relationship is with me. I am not going to be a courier for a stupid rear end form they won't fill out anyway (because I'll tell them not to). I've been flabbergasted reading what potential employers have been demanding from you guys. Maybe it's my work experience, specialization or the fact my last few positions have all been at relatively large companies, but I've never had anyone in the hiring chain demand anything other than what I would expect: a CV/resume, phones numbers for references, phone numbers for work history verification. Sometimes I've had to cut and paste the resume into some text fields to satisfy some HR checkbox, but that's it.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:09
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It's frustrating though when you have to fill out the form with all the required blocks such as "pay rate at X job", "Manager contact info from X job", etc. I usually just put "0" and "na" or "will provide after contact" and expect no communication. Cybercoders is the worst at this.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:14
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TerryLennox posted:Also confirming that reference check too. I had to get a damned signed letter from them saying I held position $CakeWalk and was paid $wampum. I don't know what do prospective employers expect from a reference. Do they want to know my size or whether I wear tighty whiteys or boxers? I've never had to do any of this. EVER. From the lowest of the low jobs, to being a Sr. Windows Admin at a pretty big (READ: HUGE) web host. I've always just had to give 3-4 references. They are all previous co-workers who were Sr. to me or managers or above. And then on the background check release, they basically say they are going to call previous employers, wherein they call the HR team and ask if I worked there and what my title was. If a company wanted all that crazy poo poo from me, (and it wasn't a government job with a sec. clearance) I would bow out. (Unless I was unemployed or in dire need of a change...). The best thing I've learned over the last 15 years is to guard your references as much as possible. I have references in a whole range of positions that they've moved to since I've worked with them. I never give their info out unless I'm pretty much at the "offer" stage and I know I want the job. I also send them a courtesy email to let them know they might be getting a call, what the co. is and what the position is. More than a few times I've gotten emails back from my refs after they talk to the co. giving me a heads up about what to expect. And way more than a few times when I've gotten the call with the offer I've heard things like "Wow, you have great references, I get the feeling they had a hard time seeing you go" etc. References can oftentimes be more important than the skills listed on your resume. For example, I have a reference that is an associate professor at a university. (He was my manager at a startup 10 years ago). I've listed him on occasion when I know that high level people in a company I'm pursuing have attended said university, etc. That tends to give me a leg up, since they trust his judgement because of his position, so when he says he loved working with me, etc, etc, they feel confident moving forward. (Sorry for the wall of text. I've bounced around to a lot of tech related jobs in the last 15 years, so I have a bunch of experience with how different co's both big and small deal with interviewing and references!)
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Apr 14, 2015 13:55
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Is there a thread where IT people can pose questions/issues to each other about work related issues? Not looking to poo poo up any other thread.
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Apr 14, 2015 14:16
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I think if it's a technical issue there are the Linux/Windows/Networking threads, etc. I think if it's job/work/career related, probably in here? I could be wrong, but that's how I've looked at it.
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Apr 14, 2015 14:21
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