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Sorvah
Dec 1, 2014
They don't call him Green Arrow because the show has the colour palette of a greyscale printer.

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PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Drifter posted:

Except Daredevil is his name. They're allowed to use it, so why wouldn't they? That's saying, "Man, I'm so glad nobody's calling Batman Batman, or noone's saying Ironman." Like, That's the character's name.

It just felt off within the context of a show that did a really good job of not getting too comic book-y. I totally get that for branding, marketing, etc. they should call him Daredevil, but within the show itself it sounds outlandish despite there being other characters in the shared universe with goofy names.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

hey look,
a post

PaybackJack posted:

It just felt off within the context of a show that did a really good job of not getting too comic book-y. I totally get that for branding, marketing, etc. they should call him Daredevil, but within the show itself it sounds outlandish despite there being other characters in the shared universe with goofy names.

its a comic book show, it can't loving be too comic book-y

SpudCat
Mar 12, 2012

XboxPants posted:

edit:

Lately that's my favorite kind of story.


Ha, I honestly can't tell if you're agreeing with me or if I just worded that vaguely enough to apply to every story ever. I guess to clarify I don't think the Netflix show was particularly "imaginative" with the story it was telling-- though Kingpin's character was much different than I was expecting-- but it took a well-worn superhero arc and did a very good job telling it. Not just the plot, a lot of the characters slotted easily into specific archetypes like the doofy comic-relief bud or the hard-boiled veteran reporter. But it was done well enough that even though I've seen all these things before, I still enjoyed the ride a lot.

And there were still a few curveballs, as with Urich's death.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat
I kinda liked the idea that he would keep being called the Devil of Hell's Kitchen in the news, that Wilson Fisk would never be called Kingpin, etc.

I like that in the X-Men movies Erik and Charles call each other Erik and Charles, and that Logan, Jean and Scott all go by their names. Same with Steve, Tony, Natasha and Bruce. Well, Thor is just Thor.

Something about avoiding their comic book names makes it feel like there's more focus on who their characters are. There's a feeling that they're people and they relate to each other as people, and not just as capes and colorful tights with colorful names.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

mr.capps posted:

its a comic book show, it can't loving be too comic book-y

I get what you're saying but I like different interpretations of the core idea and a lowkey, less flashy/gimmicky version was something I was really enjoying all the way through. I kept waiting for them to introduce familiar badguys but they never did and I was kind of shocked but I also really liked that. I hope if for next season they do introduce Bullseye/Typhoid Mary/Kirigi/Elektra/whoever they keep it down to earth as much as possible.

I guess I just wanted something on the other end of the spectrum from The Flash where everything is basically a joke about how goofy comic book it is.

and I got that right up until the end of the show so I'm not really complaining that much. Steve Yun gets it.

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Apr 16, 2015

Sorvah
Dec 1, 2014
I thought there was some stuff they did that was pretty different form most Superhero tropes - the conversation between Foggy and Matt when Foggy found out about his ex parte activities was really cool. it was much 'realer' than other instances of the same situation in other films or series I thought, especially when they started throwing arguments and counter arguments across each other about their shared history etc. I've never really seen a hero taken to town like that by someone he knows I don't think.

Then obviously there's the fact that Daredevil spends most of the show getting the ever loving poo poo kicked out of him. I thought one of the main themes was showing what happens when you don't have the Suit, the Hammer or the SHIELD behind you. When you're just a talented guy trying to take things into your own hands...well, there are other talented guys out there too and some of them are going to kick the poo poo out of you. You'll never see Stark or Rogers get stabbed up like Daredevil did throughout the episodes.

The manipulation of the media was also very good. It wasn't just Jameson throwing out some headlines that upsets Toby Maguire, I was watching it and thinking 'yep, thats exactly how the news would react'. It was obviously a nod to how miserable Matt's life gets and the 'I'm not Daredevil' stuff but again, I don't think we've really seen the swing of political and media manipulation affect a hero like it did in this series. It actually had character building consequence.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

hey look,
a post

Steve Yun posted:

I like that in the X-Men movies Erik and Charles call each other Erik and Charles, and that Logan, Jean and Scott all go by their names. Same with Steve, Tony, Natasha and Bruce. Well, Thor is just Thor.

The comics pretty much have done this forever too

PaybackJack posted:

I get what you're saying but I like different interpretations of the core idea and a lowkey, less flashy/gimmicky version was something I was really enjoying all the way through. I kept waiting for them to introduce familiar badguys but they never did and I was kind of shocked but I also really liked that. I hope if for next season they do introduce Bullseye/Typhoid Mary/Kirigi/Elektra/whoever they keep it down to earth as much as possible.

But you can't do a down to earth Stilt-Man

:rimshot:

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

mr.capps posted:

But you can't do a down to earth Stilt-Man

:rimshot:

Actually if next season Turk showed up on crutches that would be perfect.

but yes, nicely done goon sir. :bravo:

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat
I hate the suit.

I hate that it looks dumb.

I hate that we're losing the black t-shirt over his face, which looked way cooler.

I loved that Matt got stabbed and beaten up all the time, and the suit takes that away, which I hate.

dj_clawson
Jan 12, 2004

We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.

mr.capps posted:

The comics pretty much have done this forever too


But you can't do a down to earth Stilt-Man

:rimshot:

Easter egg: You can see the Stiltman outfit in Potter's shop during the fight scene between him and Matt.

Sorvah
Dec 1, 2014
I'm with you on the suit.

I'm especially annoyed that it showed you it on the Netflix selection menu.

Shadoer
Aug 31, 2011


Zoe Quinn is one of many women targeted by the Gamergate harassment campaign.

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Steve Yun posted:

I hate the suit.

I hate that it looks dumb.

I hate that we're losing the black t-shirt over his face, which looked way cooler.

I loved that Matt got stabbed and beaten up all the time, and the suit takes that away, which I hate.

Same here. The worse thing was that they built it up with stuff like "you really need body armor" and "okay, found the guy that will make you some armor" and well this is the crap we get.

They still have a shot at changing it, like getting rid of the stupid ears/horns and just making it all black. After all, only the black parts have gone through the "process". The red parts are the unfinished ones.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

PaybackJack posted:

I get what you're saying but I like different interpretations of the core idea and a lowkey, less flashy/gimmicky version was something I was really enjoying all the way through. I kept waiting for them to introduce familiar badguys but they never did and I was kind of shocked but I also really liked that. I hope if for next season they do introduce Bullseye/Typhoid Mary/Kirigi/Elektra/whoever they keep it down to earth as much as possible.

I guess I just wanted something on the other end of the spectrum from The Flash where everything is basically a joke about how goofy comic book it is.

and I got that right up until the end of the show so I'm not really complaining that much. Steve Yun gets it.

Then you don't really want a comic book show.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!
I liked the suit except for the horns. It sort of has this combination flak jacket and biker jacket thing going. I dig it. The horns are silly though.

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Then you don't really want a comic book show.

I'm pretty happy with the other comic book shows, I just thought that was kind of the wrong direction to take this show by the end of it given how it didn't really feel anything like a comic book show up until the end.

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Apr 16, 2015

Shadoer
Aug 31, 2011


Zoe Quinn is one of many women targeted by the Gamergate harassment campaign.

Support a feminist today!


PaybackJack posted:

I liked the suit except for the horns. It sort of has this combination flak jacket and biker jacket thing going. I dig it. The horns are silly though.


I'm pretty happy with the other comic book shows, I just thought that was kind of the wrong direction to take this show by the end of it given how it didn't really feel anything like a comic book show up until the end.

Yeah with a few modifications it can look cool. Like getting rid of the hornes, lose some of the red so it doesn't look like he's from tron, that would help.

Even then it pales in comparison to the awesomeness of a simple bandana covering his eyes and wearing black.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

PaybackJack posted:

I'm pretty happy with the other comic book shows, I just thought that was kind of the wrong direction to take this show by the end of it given how it didn't really feel anything like a comic book show up until the end.

It felt very much like a comic book show, though.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Drifter posted:

It felt very much like a comic book show, though.

I had more of a crime noir feel than superhero. Like it felt more like Person of Interest than Agents of Shield. I guess you could argue POI is a comic book show...

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.

Steve Yun posted:

I hate the suit.

I hate that it looks dumb.

I hate that we're losing the black t-shirt over his face, which looked way cooler.

I loved that Matt got stabbed and beaten up all the time, and the suit takes that away, which I hate.

It'll be fine if he just fights a slightly higher class of opponent. Instead of gritty fights against 3 common thugs/one unpowered professional, it'll be gritty fights against 3 unpowered pros/one powered dude. It lets him fight slightly stronger people while keeping the tone of the fights the same.

Also, regarding the name, wasn't that just something the newspapers made up? Or did Matt do a big "I'm the loving Daredevil" speech, and I forgot?

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


dj_clawson posted:

Easter egg: You can see the Stiltman outfit in Potter's shop during the fight scene between him and Matt.

This is great.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat
Neat thing I didn't realize before about the opening titles... people have said it's a ripoff of the opening titles for the Hannibal series, and maybe it was inspired by Hannibal, but one thing they do to "own" the bloody titles is that the blood flow sort of represents Matt's vision. In the same way that the blood flows over invisible shapes to reveal an angel, a bridge and a water tower, Matt's hearing makes what were once invisible shapes to him become visible.



You can even see how even though the red paint is dripping down from above, there are ripples that move from left to right, as if affected by laterally moving soundwaves.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Apr 16, 2015

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

Shadoer posted:

They still have a shot at changing it, like getting rid of the stupid ears/horns and just making it all black. After all, only the black parts have gone through the "process".
So yeah, I'm just gonna let you know right now that they're not gonna get rid of Daredevil's horns or make Daredevil completely black. Like, let it sink in that it's never gonna happen before you get too attached to the idea.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


While on the topic of the costume, did anyone else feel like there was a bit of a tonal shift the moment it shows up? I mean, for nearly the entire 13 series run, Daredevil had a pretty unique voice and style, but the moment that suit shows up, the whole thing feels like a generic '00s superhero movie, complete with a bland fight (and weird, toy commercial-esque close ups of his weapon). It's not enough to even knock the episode down a half point, and it's certainly not the worst part of the series ("I don't think can fall in love you"), but it was a bit jarring.

Still, Daredevil owns. I'm working my way through a second viewing and I really hope we get AKA Jessica Jones before the end of the year is out.

Shadoer
Aug 31, 2011


Zoe Quinn is one of many women targeted by the Gamergate harassment campaign.

Support a feminist today!


BrianWilly posted:

So yeah, I'm just gonna let you know right now that they're not gonna get rid of Daredevil's horns or make Daredevil completely black. Like, let it sink in that it's never gonna happen before you get too attached to the idea.

:(

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
His costume in the beginning is too much like what Iron Fist wears, so they need to look different if they team up. Wouldn't want everyone on the drat team looking the exact same.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

Boogaleeboo posted:

His costume in the beginning is too much like what Iron Fist wears, so they need to look different if they team up. Wouldn't want everyone on the drat team looking the exact same.

One would be white, one black. That'd be prettty cool.

Sorvah
Dec 1, 2014
Ebonnny and Ivoooorrry, ninja together in harmmmoonyyy

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Drifter posted:

One would be white, one black. That'd be prettty cool.

Iron Fist is green and yellow! And the white and black mix comes from his heterosexual life partnership with Luke Cage and their not at all beard-like romantic partners.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Freshly Squeezed
The whole point of the costume, despite being useful as body armor, is that Matt wants to be the Devil. He wants to be the personification of the Catholic/Christian boogeyman, and scare the criminals of Hell's Kitchen, that is why it is red and has horns
You are much more likely to fear Daredevil than some vigilante in a black mask.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

Boogaleeboo posted:

Iron Fist is green and yellow! And the white and black mix comes from his heterosexual life partnership with Luke Cage and their not at all beard-like romantic partners.

No no, I'm pretty sure it's blue and black.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.

Steve Yun posted:

I kinda liked the idea that he would keep being called the Devil of Hell's Kitchen in the news, that Wilson Fisk would never be called Kingpin, etc.

I did, too. Mostly because "Daredevil" as a name implies a disposition that's way less central to this version of the character. A daredevil is someone who's an adrenaline junkie, who takes risks because they're invigorated by them, or who lives dangerously because they're impulsive.

Which, I suppose, isn't *untrue* of Matt Murdock...but this is a pretty joyless take on the character. He's a suffering Catholic martyr who approaches vigilantism as a necessary evil. As yet, he's not really yelling "woo!" as he leaps off rooftops. He's getting stabbed in an alley trying to keep children from sex traffickers.

Steve Yun posted:

...people have said [the opening credits are] a ripoff of the opening titles for the Hannibal series, and maybe it was inspired by Hannibal,

I'm positive Hannibal had some influence on the show, in general. Fisk's plotline involves a lot of Hannibal-esque moments of rich guy fetishism. Starkly-composed shots of modern art galleries, stylishly curated apartment spaces, an endless closet full of suits...and certainly the gourmet cooking montages with orchestral music.

I think his first date with Vanessa literally involves Bach's Goldberg Variations. I kept expecting Laurence Fishburne to show up for puréed liver and wild mushroom pâté.

(I guess we got the other Jack Crawford, instead.)

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!

I thought the intro titles were red wax, like the candles in a Catholic church, not blood. Fits more with the theme of the show. Plus it didn't look like blood at all.

Also I think the suit looks great.

Vitamin P
Nov 19, 2013

Truth is game rigging is more difficult than it looks pls stay ded

Steve Yun posted:

Neat thing I didn't realize before about the opening titles... people have said it's a ripoff of the opening titles for the Hannibal series, and maybe it was inspired by Hannibal, but one thing they do to "own" the bloody titles is that the blood flow sort of represents Matt's vision. In the same way that the blood flows over invisible shapes to reveal an angel, a bridge and a water tower, Matt's hearing makes what were once invisible shapes to him become visible.



You can even see how even though the red paint is dripping down from above, there are ripples that move from left to right, as if affected by laterally moving soundwaves.

The blood effect also gives everything a texture, it works well as an image of how Matt 'sees' the world.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

Xealot posted:

I did, too. Mostly because "Daredevil" as a name implies a disposition that's way less central to this version of the character. A daredevil is someone who's an adrenaline junkie, who takes risks because they're invigorated by them, or who lives dangerously because they're impulsive.

Which, I suppose, isn't *untrue* of Matt Murdock...but this is a pretty joyless take on the character. He's a suffering Catholic martyr who approaches vigilantism as a necessary evil. As yet, he's not really yelling "woo!" as he leaps off rooftops. He's getting stabbed in an alley trying to keep children from sex traffickers.

It's implied that the cop at the end saw Murdock doing crazy parkour poo poo up a scaffolding after subduing Fisk while asking what he should call him. It then cuts to the media coining the name Daredevil. I thought it was pretty clear why he was given a superhero name. The press/media coined the name Iron Man too.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

Oasx posted:

You are much more likely to fear Daredevil than some vigilante in a black mask.

While that might be true in a "criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot" comic book sense, I don't think it's true in general. I'd imagine I'd be more scared of a guy dressed head to toe in simple black clothes and with bandage wrapped hands who is referred to in a mythological way as "the devil in hell's kitchen" than of someone dressed in a gaudy, if practical outfit called Daredevil. The former name feels less real and in some way scarier because there's no name as such - just a description, like he's still a rumor I guess. Once that rumor solidifies it becomes less scary. I cannot verify this having never experienced both in a vacuum apart from each other, but it's my feeling regardless.

And while intellectually I can recognize that the increased body armor is of course a better idea and even makes him more threatening when thought about, it's just not as frightening in an immediate sense - especially visually. Losing the bandages on the hands takes away as much as losing the black I think, because those bandages have a really simple, practical threat to them that anyone can immediately understand that a pair of gloves just doesn't do as well.

I don't mind the show changing those elements and giving him the suit I suppose, I just don't agree that it works as well in real life as it does in comics. While they're both visual mediums, they're still different and I don't think the red works as well on television as it does in a comic book. I can buy red being cool and threatening in a comic book almost regardless of tone, but it doesn't carry over 100% to television for the same reason I wouldn't expect adaptations of a live action final fantasy movie to give it's protagonist's several hundred belts. It works in the games, but it doesn't on film. Or in cosplay - though some people have made great efforts.

Saying that it's not a comic book show if it doesn't have those elements or I don't want a comic book show if I don't like those elements in this format is just being dogmatic. I love those things in something like Flash that revels in them, here it just feels slightly weird given the tone the show generally strikes. Context is important after all.

tsob fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Apr 16, 2015

Sorvah
Dec 1, 2014
HIs costume would have been nigh on perfect if it was exactly what he wears for most of the show, but shaded red. I'd have been completely fine with that.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

Jonas Albrecht posted:

While on the topic of the costume, did anyone else feel like there was a bit of a tonal shift the moment it shows up? I mean, for nearly the entire 13 series run, Daredevil had a pretty unique voice and style, but the moment that suit shows up, the whole thing feels like a generic '00s superhero movie, complete with a bland fight (and weird, toy commercial-esque close ups of his weapon). It's not enough to even knock the episode down a half point, and it's certainly not the worst part of the series ("I don't think can fall in love you"), but it was a bit jarring.

Still, Daredevil owns. I'm working my way through a second viewing and I really hope we get AKA Jessica Jones before the end of the year is out.

That's probably intentional. His next appearance is in a team-up show with a guy who has bulletproof skin, and a magic martial artist.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I liked the show but hated the Kingpin. He was a cold cartoon villain at one second and then a raging retard the other. What is this "I want to make the city a better place" crap? Why do I need to walk through half a dozen mega-awkward love speeches? Why does the character keep whining all the time?

Every other villain and the supporting characters were on point though.

Silhouette
Nov 16, 2002

SONIC BOOM!!!

Aphrodite posted:

That's probably intentional. His next appearance is in a team-up show with a guy who has bulletproof skin, and a magic martial artist.

Don't forget Supergirl with PTSD!

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McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






Sorvah posted:

The whole point is that you DON'T have to artificially produce cliffhangers or rely on 'monster of the week' guff in order to get people to watch the next episode.

Instead you can keep to the important stuff. I much, much prefer it this way.

It's funny you say that because eps 5 and 6 are clearly structured like a classic broadcast TV two-parter.

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