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Some Numbers posted:I have a much longer set of thoughts if you guys are interested. I didn't know how much space I should take up. That's fine. Don't hesitate to throw in screen caps for those who haven't seen the show. EDIT: Kind of tempted to do something like this with Xros Wars now
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Apr 16, 2015 14:52
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I have seen some episodes of the English dub and quickly changed back to German. What the English dubbers did to the music is simply horrible.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:07
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readingatwork posted:That's fine. Don't hesitate to throw in screen caps for those who haven't seen the show. Please do throw in screencaps, yes. Some of us haven't watched the series, and don't really want to go back and try to watch it again to visualize stuff. Also because properly timed screenshots in these things can be loving great.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:21
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People who talk about how Frontier killed the franchise amuse me, considering all it did was continue a trend that Tamers already started. Yes, the western fan favorite was the beginning of the end. All Frontier did was fail to recapture the audience Tamers had already thoroughly alienated.
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Apr 16, 2015 16:06
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TFRazorsaw posted:People who talk about how Frontier killed the franchise amuse me, considering all it did was continue a trend that Tamers already started. No doubt on that. Tamers was a very brave series, but as I've said a lot in the past, it was not very FUN especially at the end. D-Reaper really needed more Agents and the plot really needed less quantum bubbles and older gentlemen talking about how to fix the problem. I respect the hell out of Tamers though- it really stands out as something more than just another season. I like it more as an adult than I did as a kid, I think.
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Apr 16, 2015 16:10
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Probably didn't help that it was caught up in the whole Saban/Disney trade, so some international markets (such as here in Britain) didn't really get Frontier at all, probably because it didn't have say, the continuing sales of a toyline like Power Rangers did, to help validate putting it on.
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Apr 16, 2015 16:27
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Burkion posted:No doubt on that. Don't forget that at the time was the first new Digimon series after the highly-popular Adventure and where are Tai and Agumon in this new third season? 
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Apr 16, 2015 16:59
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I remember in one of the early episodes of the Tamers dub, after Takato got his signature goggles, one of his friends calls him "Yolei" and for the longest time i was expecting the Adventure kids to show up. It'd be interesting to know what they say in the original for that scene. Also wasn't the teacher voiced by the same va as Kari? I was convinced they were the same person.
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Apr 16, 2015 17:09
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Oxygen Deficiency posted:Also wasn't the teacher voiced by the same va as Kari? I was convinced they were the same person. Yes. And I thought that, too. Would've been neat for her Gatomon to make a cameo.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:28
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Astro Nut posted:Probably didn't help that it was caught up in the whole Saban/Disney trade, so some international markets (such as here in Britain) didn't really get Frontier at all, probably because it didn't have say, the continuing sales of a toyline like Power Rangers did, to help validate putting it on. Honestly, the fact they haven't screwed up Pokemon (even if the show was doing a good job of doing that on it's own terms with Gen 5) is something of a small miracle.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:40
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ConanThe3rd posted:Fox Kids / Jettix / Disney XD UK have a lot to answer for in terms of their anime output; From Digimon Frontier and Sailor Moon S not being aired when stated in the FK days, to Naruto's appalling editing in the Jetix Days to XD somehow utterly bollocking up Inazuma Eleven's release such that the franchise died in the UK, the sort of one place where Football, saying nothing of Level 5, is "A Thing" Pokemon airs in Cartoon Network  They've done a good job bringing anime there, Kill la Kill and Space Dandy got really solid ratings.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:58
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Adding screencaps is a thing I'll do. Do you guys want me to go through the episodes like I've never seen them or should I talk about stuff from future episodes and foreshadowing and stuff?
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Apr 16, 2015 20:31
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Pokemon airs in Cartoon Network Pokemon has a weird airing history in the UK especially during Gen 3 / 4 but by the time the second half of DP came around it mostly stick to Jetix / Disney XD and CITV.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:34
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Some Numbers posted:Digimon Frontier Trip Report Astro Nut posted:But yeah, I really do like Frontier's opening episode. There's something about the way it handles the world building in a short span that I really like, though I do confess may have been handled better given what they do ultimately go with. Still, I always find something really cool in the train station scene, with dozens if not hundreds of potential heroes called upon in the hopes of getting the few who'll actually make the cut. I actually think Frontier's opening episode was one of the best in the series proper, until Cerberumon appears and the pacing and atmosphere fall apart. There's a pretty decent sense of mystery through the opening section with Takuya, and the train station is a pretty evocative image; even Takuya's limited interaction with the obvious rival character is pulled off pretty well, with a conveyed sense of tension and implied connection between them without them even trading many words. Hell, I even liked the characters at first; while it's lost in the dub, the group of four clearly don't care much for each other at first. They even work in a bit of the thematic connection with their conversation about why they got on the train in the first place, which was moderately interesting. I wouldn't call myself a season 4 apologist, but there are a few elements (especially early on) that I did like the series for. A pity it didn't really follow them up.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:46
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Oxygen Deficiency posted:I remember in one of the early episodes of the Tamers dub, after Takato got his signature goggles, one of his friends calls him "Yolei" and for the longest time i was expecting the Adventure kids to show up. He just makes a comment about the goggles. Nearly all of the references to Adventure are entirely the invention of the dub. The most the original version includes is Shaochung switching the channel on a TV as Wormmon's image song is heard. Konaka did confirm that Adventure/02 ARE fictional in Tamers' universe, however. Hikari having the same VA as a teacher is just a metatextual joke. Asanuma-sensei is also a pretty selfish person and a bad teacher, so it wouldn't make much sense for her and Hikari to be the same person.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:51
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AlternateNu posted:Yes. And I thought that, too. That was purely a dub creation though. The producers saw how much Asaji looked like grown up Kari and she was a teacher to boot so they specifically asked Laura Jill Miller if she'd voice her. To my knowledge, I don't think anyone on the Japanese staff realized the joke potential they had on their hands until they saw the dub, and by that point it was too late to really do anything.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:54
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TFRazorsaw posted:People who talk about how Frontier killed the franchise amuse me, considering all it did was continue a trend that Tamers already started. Frontier and Tamers are vastly different in tone and style though.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:57
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Dr Pepper posted:Frontier and Tamers are vastly different in tone and style though. The point was Tamers had literally frightened children away from the Digimon franchise by letting Konaka go Full Konaka with it, and no matter how bright and cheery and pillowy soft Frontier was, there was no recapturing that core audience. But that doesn't excuse Frontier from being terrible in and of itself and the thing that nominally killed the Digimon anime franchise for years.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:01
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The point is though how much of it was Frontier's fault or how much of it was a fatal wound on Tamers' part? We'll never know. Quality can't really be used as a metric considering the fact 02 is the most successful Digimon series despite being agreed to be objectively awful.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:04
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Frontier also had an image problem, being aesthetically very different from the prior seasons (Trains? Spirits? No partner digimon?!), which I imagine didn't help in recapturing fans scared away by Tamer's changes to the formula. Meanwhile, Frontier's mediocrity helped dispel any of the goodwill Tamers had generated through the strength of its writing, so it didn't really appeal to cult fans or the general public.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:24
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Classy Hydra posted:Frontier also had an image problem, being aesthetically very different from the prior seasons (Trains? Spirits? No partner digimon?!), which I imagine didn't help in recapturing fans scared away by Tamer's changes to the formula. Meanwhile, Frontier's mediocrity helped dispel any of the goodwill Tamers had generated through the strength of its writing, so it didn't really appeal to cult fans or the general public. And here in the states you may not even have known it EXISTED- I sure didn't, as said earlier. I came in at the worst part, thinking the brand had just been cancelled.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:26
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It was on the Family Channel in a before school timeslot.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:34
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dis astranagant posted:It was on the Family Channel in a before school timeslot. Yet a number of people did not know where the hell it moved to, as I did not. I just happened to run across it flipping through the channels. I don't remember which channel I found it on either.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:37
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I found it because they'd been airing 02 and Tamers there for some time. Pretty sure it was never on an over the air station in my market except for Adventure.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:43
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dis astranagant posted:I found it because they'd been airing 02 and Tamers there for some time. I never did. I watched Digimon on Fox all the way through Tamers, and then Fox changed and I lost track of it.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:45
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This was also a time in which BitTorrent was still just an internet curiosity and not widely used and fan subbing took weeks and was squirled away in niche parts of the online community. So it was pretty much unavailable in any format.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:49
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and the only people to ever sub Frontier were Wolfpack Productions, who flat out made poo poo up. That was a dark day for the Digimon fandom. After Megchan's died out all we had was them and the original incarnation of With the Will, complete with bonus Omnitor and his notorious pack of lies.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:51
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The disruption in timeslot likely contributed to its failure, yeah. There were a lot of contributing factors compounded with the basic fact that the brand was fading, and the changes Frontier made ultimately made it seem less interesting to old fans rather than more. Making it more of a sentai and less of a 'mons series muddled the series identity at a key time when it should have been solidifying its viewer base following the waves Tamers made. Frontier might have done well if viewer interest in the show was high to begin with, but it was a really poorly timed followup to the third season. The safe move probably would have been to make something more like Savers, with a familiar partner dynamic and limited core cast like Tamers aimed at a slightly higher target demographic in order to recapture older fans from the earlier seasons, while discarding the darker atmosphere and complex themes that isolated the greater audience to begin with. Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 21:51
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Burkion posted:I never did. I watched Digimon on Fox all the way through Tamers, and then Fox changed and I lost track of it. It switched from Fox to UPN for me. I only knew about it because UPN was the only channel left that had before-school programming, but it aired at 7:30 anyways so I only saw about 10 minutes before going to school.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:51
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It changed networks, wasn't well-advertised if it was advertised at all, didn't really have much of a toy or videogame presence. It essentially disappeared for most kids. I only found out about it during reruns year later.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:52
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The whole 2-5PM kids block on Fox that gave you Digimon, Power Rangers, Animaniacs etc went the way of the dodo. Saban's group licensed the Fox name and bought the Family Channel and moved their stuff over there. There was certainly a big marketing push at the time for "Fox Family Channel." I was only watching that block for Power Rangers by that point and I remember it.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:53
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I should note that Frontier's changing a timeslot in America likely had nothing to do with the franchise going on hiatus. It's not to say Toei had no interest in what america thought of the franchise at the time, but it was far less of a priority than how it was doing in its native country.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:53
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Adventure Tri might be the best way for a Digimon series to have good ratings again though. It appeals to that horrible part of the fandom that cares about nostalgia above actual quality, while at the same time appealing to whoever else because, hey, new Digimon show! And then it scares that audience away because they don't really care about anything other than MUH CHILDHOOD, and the artwork is kinda weird, but hey, it's a good tri! I just hope it amounts to more than nostalgia appealing, how stupid Toei has been even before the series was released (gently caress nadenade forever) has kind of hurt my hopes.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:56
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TFRazorsaw posted:and the only people to ever sub Frontier were Wolfpack Productions, who flat out made poo poo up. I didn't know this about WPP. I guess I should try to find a dub copy if I ever want to watch all of Frontier for some reason.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:59
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mikeycp posted:I didn't know this about WPP. I guess I should try to find a dub copy if I ever want to watch all of Frontier for some reason. The dub also flat out made poo poo up. (Though it had significantly better sound mixing than the original)
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Apr 16, 2015 22:00
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TFRazorsaw posted:and the only people to ever sub Frontier were Wolfpack Productions, who flat out made poo poo up. Ah With the Will, I remember those guys. Jita was a raging rear end in a top hat with a hair trigger and Omnitor was a giant loving liar who banned anyone who questioned his bullshit. Good times. 
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Apr 16, 2015 22:00
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and because of Omnitor, we have poo poo that persists even to this day, like the belief that there was a "Puppetmaster" connecting all four seasons that was cut from Frontier at the last minute, which somehow trickled down to the idea that Millenniumon is somehow all powerful and responsible for everything that ever happens in Adventure. (He's not. He's really kind of pathetic, honestly. Like this kid who really wants his crush to pay attention to him. Point is Fanon Millenniumon is really annoying).
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Apr 16, 2015 22:03
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I'm not sure how anyone can think of Millenniumon as cool when his only goal was to get Ryo to notice him. Ryo isn't even cool, why the hell are you warping the fabric of reality constantly just to have him pay attention to you? He's got other Digimon, man, let it go. Literally the only cool thing about him, if you can even call it that, is that he succeeds. After four games. And even there only by being forcefully fused into another Digimon.
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Apr 16, 2015 22:05
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The local Fox station has always run morning talk shows and afternoon gameshows instead of taking the 90s cartoon block tax break. The independent station that ran Fox Kids stuff became a WB long before Digimon was a thing and our UPN existed for maybe a month, so I guess I got lucky with TV station politics. ABC Family had a continuous run up through Frontier and there was nowhere else to watch it.
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Apr 16, 2015 22:06
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Blaze Dragon posted:Adventure Tri might be the best way for a Digimon series to have good ratings again though. It appeals to that horrible part of the fandom that cares about nostalgia above actual quality, while at the same time appealing to whoever else because, hey, new Digimon show! Tri seems like the kind of thing they will just sit on the rights to but not localize. I have no idea what happened to those rights, I know they were sold to Disney with the rest of Saban's stuff but I have no idea if they were included in the sell back, expired, or what. Not to mention that the voice cast is a really eccentric mix of whoever would work cheap and non-union. Tai's voice actor was a magician who worked corporate parties and the like. Matt's voice actor became a writer for Boston Legal when that show was around. The people who have fond memories of this show and would watch a Digimon cartoon 15 years later would watch it subbed on Crunchyroll or whatever. EDIT: nine-gear crow posted:Ah With the Will, I remember those guys. Jita was a raging rear end in a top hat with a hair trigger and Omnitor was a giant loving liar who banned anyone who questioned his bullshit. I remember Jita and a friend of his from my message board. He would talk about lifting and getting cited for punching out a window in a mass transit bus or something, so your description is accurate. I have no idea who Omnitor is. Everybody left my site/board for Megchan's after I decided to spend money on the site and buy UBB and then vBulletin, because I didn't like ezBoard's advertising revenue model. But, by then the posters actually liked ezBoard and were unhappy with me for switching to a board under my own hosting. In addition Meg actually had a connection to the show, so my time was over. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 22:07
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