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leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
buffer underruns :argh:

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Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

computer parts posted:

i forget who but a desktop manufacturer had a (then) amazing demo about how you could play two videos simultaneously on a machine that didn't cost $5,000

wasn't that beos? :rip:

pram
Jun 10, 2001
i have a 3d spinning teapot, an mp3, AND a mov file playing at the same time

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

ruby idiot railed posted:

that poo poo didn't get any better until early-mid 00's and I don't remember why

you upgraded to 2000 or XP

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003

pseudorandom name posted:

you upgraded to 2000 or XP

win2k Pro -> XP -> 7 upgrade path supremacy

Phoenixan
Jan 16, 2010

Just Keep Cool-idge

pram posted:

i have a 3d spinning teapot, an mp3, AND a mov file playing at the same time

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
bbbbbbut realtime scheduling is HARD guys ;_;

also that thing about driving 4K displays is possibly the worst example you could give

display technology loving stood still for about 10 years because :siren: FULL 1080 P HD IS TOTALLY AWESOME :siren:

even now you're only just starting to see 60Hz 4K displays

Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Apr 16, 2015

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Suspicious Dish posted:

did your computer run two 1920x1200 monitors in true 24-bit color?

the circa 2001 unit can, yes.

i couldn't afford a workstation this nice back then. no one was gonna pay for that kinda horsepower for someone like me. but there were jobs that needed that kinda stuff

edit: in 2001 i had three monitors at 1152x900 each. that's fewer pixels than my laptop pushes for a single 15" display.

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Apr 16, 2015

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Subjunctive posted:

InfiniteReality was indeed insane (like 200GB of video RAM?), but I didn't think it had a display connection with a high enough data rate to drive 4K@60, even if it could render a scene that fast. (Parallel video decode is rare, so likely only one of those cards mattered perf-wise, in the unlikely event that it could accelerate H.264 or equivalent anyway.) I can't find a reference though.

does your 2001 workstation drive 4K@60?

the IR boardsets could drive an insane number of discrete outputs in sync. 8? 16? 32? i really don't remember. your old-timey 4k setup wolud have used four outputs on a single projected surface

as for rendering the scene, sgi's favorite demo was texturing a 3d whatsit with realtime video

edit: also, re: h.264, back then, you wouldn't have used such an elaborate compression algorithm for the video. sgi's filesystem had guaranteed rate I/O specifically to allow you to stream much less heavily compressed video in real time. the brute force solution

who cares about getting your video stream down to 36 mbps when you can just have a giant loving disk array pushing 3,600 mbps

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Apr 16, 2015

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Soricidus posted:

the real problem is all the inefficient code that's everywhere these days. people are just too lazy to optimise properly and will insist on using hilariously inefficient languages for everything. the end result is that the average program could run much, much faster if it was designed properly and written carefully in a low-level language, but actually runs like molasses because the idiots chose to half-rear end it in c++, in this popular opinion from the 1990s

that inefficient code would have been too expensive to write at all back then, and if it was written, it wouldn't have been safe to use it with anything that came over today's internet

slow, managed code means that artcode is a thing that's economically feasible to write

and $30 linux machines with GPIO pins and AV output make that revolution accessible

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

Cocoa Crispies posted:

that inefficient code would have been too expensive to write at all back then, and if it was written, it wouldn't have been safe to use it with anything that came over today's internet

i know

the joke is that people have been complaining about bloat hampering progress for as long as computers have existed (and it's never been true)

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

edit: also, re: h.264, back then, you wouldn't have used such an elaborate compression algorithm for the video. sgi's filesystem had guaranteed rate I/O specifically to allow you to stream much less heavily compressed video in real time. the brute force solution

who cares about getting your video stream down to 36 mbps when you can just have a giant loving disk array pushing 3,600 mbps

because that doesn't work when streaming it on giant trunk cables under the loving ocean from london to boston?

bobbilljim
May 29, 2013

this christmas feels like the very first christmas to me
:shittydog::shittydog::shittydog:
this is the dumbest poo poo jesus

bobbilljim
May 29, 2013

this christmas feels like the very first christmas to me
:shittydog::shittydog::shittydog:
forget old pcs, gimme some vintage Linux bugs that are still unfixed

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

bobbilljim posted:

this is the dumbest poo poo jesus

hello

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

ruby idiot railed posted:

that poo poo didn't get any better until early-mid 00's and I don't remember why

at some point the various optical drive suppliers invented tech that allowed the drive to restart a burn after a buffer underrun. produces a gap or "link" in the spiral but they figured out how to do it such that (most) readers didn't gaf

this helped a lot, so did non poo poo operation systems. also growth in ram capacity so you could have reasonable size buffers instead of a couple kilobytes or whatevs they were doing back when oh-poo poo-gently caress-moved-the-mouse-now-I-own-a-coaster was a thing

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003
installed LUBUNTU on my YOSMAS gift netbook and its owning

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003

by Pragmatica

Smythe posted:

installed LUBUNTU on my YOSMAS gift netbook and its owning

more than GNOME3???

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

bobbilljim posted:

dumbest poo poo jesus

mods pls

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

computer parts posted:

i forget who but a desktop manufacturer had a (then) amazing demo about how you could play two videos simultaneously on a machine that didn't cost $5,000

it was be, inc, and they were showing you a machine that did cost $5,000

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003

SYSV Fanfic posted:

more than GNOME3???

gnome 3 is epic ftw on my monster ASUS ROG luggable and also PWNAGE on my powerful custom Gaming Rig but it ill tbh my friend ill come clean it ran like dog poo poo on my Acer Aspire One Pro (THANKS to Stereotype for snedding it to me for YOSMAS)

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003

by Pragmatica
Finally found the perfect use case for debian stable.

cowboy beepboop
Feb 24, 2001

SYSV Fanfic posted:

Finally found the perfect use case for debian stable.

it's hosting your idiot developer's php apps so security updates are quick and reliable
pity their code is the security fuckup

cowboy beepboop
Feb 24, 2001

i wish go, a garbage collected language, was a bit more high level so I could push that for all new code. maybe D is the language I am looking for.

edit lol the major web framework only supports nosql properly. back to looking at java i guess.

cowboy beepboop fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 17, 2015

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003

by Pragmatica

my stepdads beer posted:

it's hosting your idiot developer's php apps so security updates are quick and reliable
pity their code is the security fuckup

10 year old laptop.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Soricidus posted:

the real problem is all the inefficient code that's everywhere these days. people are just too lazy to optimise properly and will insist on using hilariously inefficient languages for everything. the end result is that the average program could run much, much faster if it was designed properly and written carefully in a low-level language, but actually runs like molasses because the idiots chose to half-rear end it in c++, in this popular opinion from the 1990s

http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/tirix/embarrassing-memo.html

October, 1993 posted:

In the May report, I listed a bunch of executable sizes, and pointed out that they were unacceptable if we intended to run without serious paging problems on a 16 megabyte system. Between May and the 5.1 release, many have grown even larger. IRIX went up from 4.8 megabytes to 8.1 megabytes, and has a memory leak that causes it to grow. Within a week, my newly-booted 5.1 IRIX was larger than 13.8 megabytes -- a big chunk of a 16 megabyte system. It's wrong to require our users to reboot every week.

[...]

Programs like Roger Chickering's "Bloatview" based on Wiltse Carpenter's work make some problems obvious. The news reader "xrn", starts out small, but leaks memory so badly that within a week or so it grows to 9 or 10 megabytes, along with plenty of other large programs. But what's really embarrassing is that even the kernel leaks memory that can't be recovered except by rebooting!

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
in 1993 you could buy a unix workstation for $5,000, or a windows desktop for $5,000. the unix workstation took an hour to boot and a full minute to alt-tab. the windows desktop flew. guess who won

bloat killed unix on the desktop 20 years ago, so now linux users have an ancestral fear, passed on greybeard-to-greybeard. no evidence is necessary. no fact-based argument will work. bloat is original sin, tainting all things.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

in 1993 you could buy a unix workstation for $5,000, or a windows desktop for $5,000. the unix workstation took an hour to boot and a full minute to alt-tab. the windows desktop flew. guess who won

bloat killed unix on the desktop 20 years ago, so now linux users have an ancestral fear, passed on greybeard-to-greybeard. no evidence is necessary. no fact-based argument will work. bloat is original sin, tainting all things.

The people programming modern linux desktops were in high school when workstation unix ceased to be relevant

or, in suspicious dish's case, primary school

greybeards wrote off desktop linux completely when the one-two punch of gnome 3 and kde 4 happened and mostly moved on to osx, or they're in full-on crazy homeless person mode and still running their poo poo in fvwm on slackware or whatever.

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

Mr Dog posted:

The people programming modern linux desktops were in high school when workstation unix ceased to be relevant

I was still using a unix workstation at work up till about 4 years ago

this may not be a contradiction

There Will Be Penalty
May 18, 2002

Makes a great pet!

Mr Dog posted:

full-on crazy homeless person mode and still running their poo poo in fvwm on slackware or whatever.

its me

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Soricidus posted:

I was still using a unix workstation at work up till about 4 years ago

this may not be a contradiction

same, but 5 years. and even then it was mostly-unsupported and waaay too slow for my needs.

unix workstations were definitely not relevant that recently, i was just working in a hosed up place with weird opinions about linux. i assumed i was among the the last fuckers on earth clinging to sparc/ia64 desktops

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Apr 17, 2015

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003

by Pragmatica

Mr Dog posted:

greybeards wrote off desktop linux completely when the one-two punch of gnome 3 and kde 4 happened and mostly moved on to osx, or they're in full-on crazy homeless person mode and still running their poo poo in fvwm on slackware or whatever.

Then who the hell is complaining about systemd?

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Mr Dog posted:

The people programming modern linux desktops were in high school when workstation unix ceased to be relevant

or, in suspicious dish's case, primary school

greybeards wrote off desktop linux completely when the one-two punch of gnome 3 and kde 4 happened and mostly moved on to osx, or they're in full-on crazy homeless person mode and still running their poo poo in fvwm on slackware or whatever.

this is why the persistence of the "bloat" legend amuses me so much

none of the current generation of users even remembers the brief window when bloat actually mattered.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

SYSV Fanfic posted:

Then who the hell is complaining about systemd?

that's the "crazy homeless person with fvwm" crew

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
i could probably get my poo poo done with fvwm, rxvt, and firefox tbh. hm.

well, they'd need hidpi support, though i guess running my display at half its native resolution would be ok provided that X uses blocky pixel scaling and not your-screen-covered-in-grease scaling (but enough about my friday nights)

SYSV Fanfic
Sep 9, 2003

by Pragmatica

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

that's the "crazy homeless person with fvwm" crew

It all makes sense now.

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

that's the "crazy homeless person with fvwm" crew

don't you use fvwm

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

eschaton posted:

don't you use fvwm

no.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
kwin ftwin

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pram
Jun 10, 2001

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