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Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal
I only ever trust someone to bring food, even then only one shared meal. I've seen people forget everything else, but never have I seen someone forget to bring food (even though it's really one of the least important things--water is waaaaaay more important).

Sleeping bags? Had a buddy forget to bring one. Stoves? More than one occasion. Unless it's a spouse, I wouldn't rely on others to share stuff like shelter.

Catatron Prime fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Apr 16, 2015

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alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

As others have said, splitting up tent and stove and food weight is really common, but make sure everyone has at least a very basic medkit, water, and a few snacks. And everyone throwing a little baggie of water tablets in their bag just in case is never a bad idea.

e: I think the original question was more about "do people split up weight once you know everything is in place," not about "is it good to blindly trust someone to bring the tent." Once you know you have everything, splitting the weight up is good. If you're worried about your friend not bringing a pot/stove and you're driving, just bring yours too and leave it in the car once you're sure they have it :shrug:

alnilam fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Apr 16, 2015

Hungryjack
May 9, 2003

OSU_Matthew posted:

I only ever trust someone to bring food, even then only one shared meal. I've seen people forget everything else, but never have I seen someone forget to bring food (even though it's really one of the least important things--water is waaaaaay more important).

Sleeping bags? Had a buddy forget to bring one. Stoves? More than one occasion. Unless it's a spouse, I wouldn't rely on others to share stuff like shelter.

If I'm sharing a sleeping bag with a buddy who forgot his, that motherfucker is going to make it up to me in a big big way in the future.

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

If there's a third person on the trip, things just got more interesting :wink:

theroachman
Sep 1, 2006

You're never fully dressed without a smile...
We usually just gather the shared items (tents, stove, trash bags, medkit, etc) in one spot and then divide stuff up so everyones pack weighs about the same. This method does require one important rule: you can only add beer or liquor to your pack AFTER it has been weighed.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

theroachman posted:

you can only add beer or liquor to your pack AFTER it has been weighed.
Haha.

Everyone should have enough supplies with them to get to safety, IMHO. So that's a little food, water equipment, BIVY KIT, first aid.

Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal

Hungryjack posted:

If I'm sharing a sleeping bag with a buddy who forgot his, that motherfucker is going to make it up to me in a big big way in the future.

It's gonna be a life or death situation before I try to share a mummy bag with someone :wink:

Splitting up stuff art the trailhead is perfectly fine--I always divvy up booze and food. Tent poles/fabric is another good thing to split up if you're sharing, and bringing spare stuff to the trailhead in your car is always a good idea--I usually wind up lending hiking poles, sporks, etc.

But I usually hike with forgetful people, or first timers, so I'm pessimistic to rely on them. A couple of extra ounces to ensure my comfort and safety is absolutely worth it. Especially water treatment--other people's filters could clog, fail, or treatment get spilled/expire. A backup is always an excellent idea.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
On my at trip, with eight people, only one other person brought a water filter. It was a near disaster because neither his pump nor mine were well maintained (I also had a steripen everyone else refused to use) so we had to spend hours every day pumping water.

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm
Gotta consider the size of the group and what kind of equipment you're using. It would suck to only be able to boil half a liter of water at a time for a group of 10. I think 1 stove per 2 people is a good average. Maybe 1 per 3 people. I also found that water purification is a good thing to have one of for each person. It's annoying to wait for someone else to squeeze their water through the filter while you're thirsty. My wife and I shared one filter on the JMT and I'd definitely not want to share it with more than one person max. You'll be most efficient with the bear cans if you get the biggest one available (Bearikade Expedition) that'll give you the highest volume to weight ratio. In that case, splitting things up at the trailhead makes sense.

theroachman
Sep 1, 2006

You're never fully dressed without a smile...
I should also mention that we all carry our own water/EU-equivalent-of-gatorade. There are about zero water sources here I would trust to drink even after filtering or treating. Too much chemical pollution (soap, petrol, etc) and you can't feasibly get that out afaik. Was fun times last year when one guy brought exactly one can of coke for a three day hike...

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?

Saint Fu posted:

Gotta consider the size of the group and what kind of equipment you're using. I think 1 stove per 2 people is a good average. Maybe 1 per 3 people.

I completely agree with this. Group size makes a difference. We've made 1 stove work for 4 people without a problem but the sweet spot is 1 per 2 people. We generally share meals so 1 meal will get divided by the group, then if people are still hungry we make the next one and keep going so that we don't make too much food and have leftovers to dispose of or pack out.

mastershakeman posted:

With eight people, only one other person brought a water filter. We had to spend hours every day pumping water.

This is where group size might determine a different type of filter. Pump filters are great but they take time and usually everyone only wants to pump water for themselves. Cue the water line. A gravity filter is a much better group option for groups because you can filter large amounts of water quickly without doing any work. You can also pack along an extra bladder and use it as a camp water source for dishes etc. This is sort of the same thing as the stove, you can serve a lot of people with one filter but one for every 2 people is quicker and ensures you have a backup if something happens to the other filter.

DholmbladRU
May 4, 2006
Picked up some new gear:
sea to summit ultralight sleeping pad(all weather)
ghost whisperer, got this from steep and cheap for 150!

Discomancer
Aug 31, 2001

I'm on a cupcake caper!

mastershakeman posted:

On my at trip, with eight people

Rest of the story side, this sounds miserable.


In general, I still think the way to go is just carry your own stuff, and not have to ever worry about it. Keep a spreadsheet of your gearlist, check it off as you pack the night before, and don't ever have that "uh oh, did I remember to pack X" feeling. I prefer hiking solo though, so maybe I'm just anti-social.

Levitate
Sep 30, 2005

randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENIÈRE IN ME

Discomancer posted:

Rest of the story side, this sounds miserable.

hiking/backpacking is weird in that people really enjoy it in different ways. Going on a big trip with a large group of people? Sounds terrible to me. Can't hike at the pace I want to, stop where I want to, enjoy the solitude, etc. Other people love the comradery of other people in situations like that and find themselves bored alone or uncomfortable with it, etc. I'm more of an introvert though...my perfect trip is just me, the mountains, and the sky

HarryPurvis
Sep 20, 2006
That reminds me of a story...
Just booked a single night campsite in Yosemite in two weeks. Figure I'll get up early the day I'm there and get in line for a walk-up site at Camp 4 to spend the rest of the weekend. If that doesn't work I'll snag a random backcountry permit and spend a night in the backpackers camp and try for camp 4 the next day. And if I still don't get a spot then I use the backcountry permit.

JUST MAKING CHILI
Feb 14, 2008
Wife and I roadtripped from Dallas to Big Bend to meet my two cousins and a girlfriend from Houston. We stayed in a nice house in Lajitas, right in the middle of the national park and the state park.

There's been a lot of rain lately, so the whole desert is blooming. Red ocotillo flowers everywhere!



We went up the Window trail to the pour-off in the Chisos basin.



And then the Grapevine Hills trail to see Balanced Rock. Looks like a penis?



The next day, we booked a Saddle and Paddle trip through the state park, here we are on the horse trail on the way to Solitario.



On our last day I was pretty tired but the rest of the group was wanting to go up Emory peak. They went and did that, while the wife and I did the easier Santa Elena Canyon trail.



We actually got off easier than them when the sudden thunderstorm rolled through. The canyon was like a windtunnel and there was pea sized hail coming down pretty hard, but they were on the way down Emory peak when it hit them. We got stuck behind flood waters for five hours trying to drive back from the trail head. I was in a car with low clearance so we waited for the water to go down enough to cross.



All in all, great trip and the wife wants to do more outdoorsy stuff. My other cousin (who did not go with us) is getting married in May and we're all going to the wedding in North Carolina, and plan on going up Crowders Mountain.

JUST MAKING CHILI fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Apr 17, 2015

Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal
That's spectacular! The horses are a nice touch too... I'm so sick of hiking in the woods. If I could line up a job, I'd move out west in a heartbeat.

One of my buddies always does a yearly kayaking trip through Big Bend, hopefully next year I'll be able to finally get the time off work.

cheese
Jan 7, 2004

Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.
drat, just when I thought I had decided on the ULA Ohm 2.0, I came across the Mountain Laurel Design's Exodus. So many backpacks, so little way to try them on. Might just pull the plug and buy 1k worth of packs, returning all but the champion.

BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001

Speleothing posted:

Your problem is with the tread. It sounds like you want an approach shoe with good cushion and some regular tread. Try the Salewa Mountain Trainer, Wildfire, or Firetail.

turevidar posted:

I have used a pair of Inov8 rocklites in the Catskills, Adirondacks, and a single trip to the Whites - plenty of wet rock and mud. I love them and will almost certainly buy another pair when I wear these out. The tread is super knobbly, they're really light, and they dry out quickly.

Levitate posted:

The sticky rubber that approach shoes use is going to be by far the best thing for use on rock of really any kind when you're looking for traction. Boots and trailrunners aren't gonna be close, that poo poo is made specifically for gripping rock and is fantastic. That's what approach shoes are made for

I used last years model of these things n the JMT and like them. I hear this years has a softer rubber that grips better which is good cuz that was the one drawback to the ones I have, they aren't great at gripping rock

HarryPurvis posted:

Funny you mention hiking in the Whites. One of my favorite hiking blogs is Section Hiker and he raves about hiking in La Sportiva Ultra Raptor trail runners.
Thanks everyone, that gives me a good start for sure.

El Grillo
Jan 3, 2008
Fun Shoe
Sitting in a bit shop looking at a new pair, bloody hell these things are expensive. Looking at scarpa terra gtx or salomon quest 4D 2 gtx, thoughts?

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

"gtx" means goretex which i do not recommend

El Grillo
Jan 3, 2008
Fun Shoe
How come?

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm

alnilam posted:

...in my experience, goretex inevitably gets a hole or tear in it and then you're screwed, you can't see it or fix it because the goretex membrane is hidden inside the shoe. I've gone through several pairs of goretex shoes/boots, always ending in leaky frustration long before it should, and I'm officially done with it.

Verman posted:

Yeah its sort of what I was trying to get at in my previous post. My goretex boots are great for short showers, dew, small puddles and they keep the water out very well to my surprise but if you're hiking all day in constant rain your feet are just going to get wet no matter what you wear shy of knee high rubber boots. The other thing is that the membrane which keeps them waterproof also prevents them from draining so if the water gets in, it stays in and gets sloshy = heavy. They also take a while to dry compared to more breathable shoes. If I were to recommend a boot, it would be the Merrell Moab Ventilator vs the goretex/waterproof varieties.

Like I said, knowing that your feet will almost always get wet regardless of the waterproof claims its almost better to accept it and get a shoe/boot that will dry faster. Most goretex/waterproof boots take forever to dry and even though the next day might be warm and sunny, your boots could still be wet from the day before. That is totally for summer/fall boots where the weather isn't frostbite teritorry. I would definitely want waterproof boots if I'm expecting snow.

Just my 2¢

OSU_Matthew posted:

Oh, no, you're absolutely right--Gore Tex is awesome for waterproofing, especially on a rain jacket... but the breathable bit is greatly overexaggerated. Especially when you wind up just as wet inside your jacket from perspiration.

I should have clarified that--Gore Tex is a great idea in principle, less so in practice.

My philosophy is to just get wet, but wear polypropylene/nylon clothes that dry out in minutes rather than a futile fight against the elements.

Speleothing posted:

Goretex is good if you're going to be in a rainstorm. Or if you're going to be standing in a puddle or bushwacking through a swamp. If you're on a trail in nice weather, less useful.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

Read the last three pages of the thread

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

I think one area where Gore-Tex can shine is in light snow and rain. Generally it will be cold enough that you dont have to worry about trapping in to much sweat vapor and they can do a good job with snow and grassy dew.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Do you all find you use knives much in the backcountry? Weight's not an issue so much because you can get folding blades around 0.5 oz, but I don't know if I'd really need it. On the JMT I don't think I used my multitool at all.

Time Cowboy
Nov 4, 2007

But Tarzan... The strangest thing has happened! I'm as bare... as the day I was born!
I guess it's time for the monthly knife debate in the hiking thread.

gohuskies
Oct 23, 2010

I spend a lot of time making posts to justify why I'm not a self centered shithead that just wants to act like COVID isn't a thing.

El Grillo posted:

Sitting in a bit shop looking at a new pair, bloody hell these things are expensive. Looking at scarpa terra gtx or salomon quest 4D 2 gtx, thoughts?

For what it's worth I have a pair of those Salomons and I really like them. With two sock layers I really have no problem with my feet getting wet even in all-day rain or light snow, they keep the feet warm, the inner sock layer can stick wick away sweat, and I feel like they grip well and are solid on rocks or scrambling terrain. If someone prefers something else, that's fine, but I really cannot complain.

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH
Sep 9, 2001

gohuskies posted:

For what it's worth I have a pair of those Salomons and I really like them. With two sock layers I really have no problem with my feet getting wet even in all-day rain or light snow, they keep the feet warm, the inner sock layer can stick wick away sweat, and I feel like they grip well and are solid on rocks or scrambling terrain. If someone prefers something else, that's fine, but I really cannot complain.

I wish I had something more useful to add but I don't. This is my same experience, though they're not exactly dirt cheap. Which was my only real complaint, big they fit my feet nicely.

I wear a wicking liner sock and cushioned Darn Tough merino wool socks with mine and they felt like heaven on my feet even after all day uphill stuff.

I'm curious to see how they do once it's hot outside, however. But I have good luck and nothing but good things to say about goretex in my footwear.

:shobon:

cheese
Jan 7, 2004

Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

Do you all find you use knives much in the backcountry? Weight's not an issue so much because you can get folding blades around 0.5 oz, but I don't know if I'd really need it. On the JMT I don't think I used my multitool at all.
From what I have gathered, a good question about gear to ask is "Why am I carrying this/what am I going to use this for?". So what do you imagine you will use a knife for on the JMT? All of the things I can think of that I might reasonably need a knife for can be accomplished just as well with a tiny razor blade in a retractable plastic housing.
My Korean War Vet Grandfather used to always have one of these in his pocket - it weighs essentially nothing and it will cut any bag or cord you might need to, and probably do an ok job of cleaning up a bad wound in a pinch.

Levitate
Sep 30, 2005

randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENIÈRE IN ME
I used a knife to cut cheese for lunch and the back of it opened my bear can real well. If I fished it'd be good for cleaning the fish but other than that it's just a bit of "if I need it just in case" and therefor I carried a small spiderco that was near a half oz

Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal

Levitate posted:

I used a knife to cut cheese

That's the most action the knife on my multi tool has ever seen.

One of my buddies used to carry his K-Bar, but gave that up pretty quickly. Another used to carry a hatchet. That was moderately useful for gathering firewood, but I ain't seen that hatchet in a long rear end time.

Soooo... No, a knife hasn't been very useful in my experiences. It's not like your gonna defend yourself from anything with it.

JUST MAKING CHILI
Feb 14, 2008
A kbar could double as a trowel for digging a poo hole.

blista compact
Mar 12, 2006
whats a fyad :(
The Leatherman keychain tools are pretty great if you can snag one on sale:

http://www.leatherman.com/style-cs-24.html#prefn1=2&prefn2=sizecategory&prefv2=Keychain-Size&prefv1=true&start=2

Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal

I had originally looked at that one before going with the Gerber Dime, because I wasn't such a fan of how the pliers were actually scissors on the leatherman. Only thing I wish it had was a can opener, but a P-58 squirreled away in my pack serves the same purpose.

remote control carnivore
May 7, 2009

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

Do you all find you use knives much in the backcountry? Weight's not an issue so much because you can get folding blades around 0.5 oz, but I don't know if I'd really need it. On the JMT I don't think I used my multitool at all.

If you don't carry a kukri, then I don't know what to tell you.



This is actually the correct answer. I like the scissors on mine for cutting moleskin.

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH
Sep 9, 2001
All the knife talk reminds me:

There were more Katanas on the AT than I had mentally prepared myself for.

I saw two loving Katanas being carried.

I don't think one left Springer Mountain. One is def up in the smokies right now.

You just know that there are more.

If it ever turns out that Autism is contagious I'm never using a shelter on the AT again, because there was also a lot of that on the trail, too.

Come to think of it I saw more Katanas than African Americans from Amicola Falls to Neels Gap. I saw even fewer Bears.

It looks like your far more likely to encounter Autism, Katanas, and even a minority, than Bears on the AT.

And yet nobody talks about Autism Shelters or Katana Canisters or whatever. Always fear of Bears and not Adam Lanza Jr. Humping N. Georgia mountains clinging onto his Genzeku like there's no tomorrow.

You can use bear cables for your food all you want but bear cables won't stop autistic ninjas. Especially if they're conditioned to human encounters already or if they think you might have pocky.

:350:

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm
Another +1 to this. I found scissors much more useful than pliers. Moleskin and finger nails are tough to cut with knife.

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH
Sep 9, 2001

Saint Fu posted:

Another +1 to this. I found scissors much more useful than pliers. Moleskin and finger nails are tough to cut with knife.

Leukotape > Moleskin

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Thoren
May 28, 2008

I've always wanted one of these but I feel like I'd never actually use it.

Does anyone own one of these and actually use it with frequency?

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