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McNerd posted:Well, there was no larger goal. He had what he needed from that guy; he pretty much just kicked him off the roof out of anger when he wouldn't stop mouthing off. I guess you could argue he needs the guy out of the way for a few hours lest he warn his friends that the masked man is coming. But Matt doesn't worry about this in other cases (e.g. Detective Blake) and anyhow could have just tied him up. He did mention that he liked doling out violence.
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Apr 21, 2015 19:07
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He was lying(?) though.
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Apr 21, 2015 19:15
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XboxPants posted:It did seem like DeKnight's comments basically translated to "Marvel wanted to kill him off 100% because it would be shocking to comic fans" which is like, not exactly the most artistically valid reason. DeKnight & the writers kinda made it work in the show, but it felt so telegraphed to me that it didn't have any impact and overall just felt forced. Which, big surprise, it was. But you can name a thousand decisions that were made specifically in order to adhere to the comics and satisfy comic fans. Why is that any better than intentionally doing something different in order to surprise the comic fans? At least the latter is creative in some crude simplistic way. I don't think there's ultimately anything wrong with either of them. There doesn't have to be some deep artistic merit behind every decision. If you can sit a writer down and tell him "Okay, write a story where a blind man fights gangsters," then you can also tell him "There should be a journalist that dies." Restrictions breed creativity: a good writer will turn these ideas into gold. Now obviously there's a limit; if the whole enterprise is micromanaged by business managers to the point no room is left for art, then that's no good. But that's not a matter of pointing at any one decision that was made for the wrong reasons.
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Apr 21, 2015 19:16
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The Sharmat posted:He was lying(?) though. He thought he was lying, but he wasn't. Was this not made clear throughout the whole drat series? His struggle with the devil inside?
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Apr 21, 2015 19:19
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mikeraskol posted:He thought he was lying, but he wasn't. Was this not made clear throughout the whole drat series? His struggle with the devil inside? There's a reason I put a question mark there.
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Apr 21, 2015 19:24
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The Sharmat posted:He was lying(?) though. If you get really really beat up/almost die doing something, only spend one night recuperating and go out the following night with some barely stitched-up wounds for that same thing even though there's no immediate need to do so, do you really A) Like doing it? B) Not like doing it?
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Apr 21, 2015 20:00
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Skeesix posted:If you get really really beat up/almost die doing something, only spend one night recuperating and go out the following night with some barely stitched-up wounds for that same thing even though there's no immediate need to do so, do you really I feel like you missed this while watching the show, so let me state it again: Matt is Catholic. Matt is really, really Catholic.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:04
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Skeesix posted:If you get really really beat up/almost die doing something, only spend one night recuperating and go out the following night with some barely stitched-up wounds for that same thing even though there's no immediate need to do so, do you really C) have a pathological need to do it that has nothing to do with liking or disliking it?
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Apr 21, 2015 20:06
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Boogaleeboo posted:I feel like you missed this while watching the show, so let me state it again: LOL. But on the topic of to kill or not to kill, I honestly believe there are times when it is not only justified, but for the good of everyone, to kill an individual. First off, I'm glad that I'll likely never be in such a situation, so this is coming completely from studies and theorizing. We can think of several individuals in history (some perhaps still at large) who, if given the chance of having them survive, would have made the world a far worse place for everyone. In comics, let's take Batman as an example. Batman dogmatically stuck to his principle to not kill anyone, and so he was repeatedly putting his rogue's gallery back into confinement. Each time they would escape and cause serious harm to people. Each time, Batman had the ability to kill them or take them back to jail, and he never would. Imagine how much better off Gotham would have been without Joker for the 2nd---millionth time. And it is also often the case in comics that the police and judicial system is either corrupt, inept, or both, which will not only lead to having them re-released but necessitates the existence of the hero in the first place. In effect, they have become the law because our justice system failed that particular world. Our justice system justifies killing in certain circumstances, and so should superhero codes. Now, in the case of Fisk and DD. Fisk is clearly a man of extreme resources. When he was arrested by the FBI he was able to have guys show up to obliterate all of them. To believe Fisk would stay in jail after seeing how deeply people in positions of power (police, politicians, judges) were loyal to him is absurdly comical. None of Fisks resources have been depleted, which means when he does get out, he'll be able to occupy the same space he once did with no issue. If DD had killed him, there would be no more worries about him or what he could do. His assets would pass to his wife or whatever his will said, and it would be likely that the beneficiaries would not be as crazy as he was. DD was dumb not to kill him. Not killing Goon/Thug #36, yeah, that's likely the right call. Not killing the personified plague of humanity was just dumb.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:25
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Some of you argue about some drat silly things. *Continues to read stuff about blind night ninja beating up bald fat guys*
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Apr 21, 2015 20:26
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Then when it comes to organized crime killing him would cause a power vacuum and someone worse could take power.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:27
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Yeah they go way out of their way, in fact you might argue it's the central internal conflict in the show, to say that the murder of Fisk is a moral issue not a practical one and the killing of Fisk would taint Matt irrevocably and cause more damage than Fisk ever did. (and would in fact make him into a super ninja Kingpin) So, uh, you missed the whole point of the show.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:30
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What the...? No, Matt shouldn't have loving murdered Fisk. That was the whole point of his character arc! Every time he tried, thus sinking to Fisk's level, he failed and was punished. Only when he accepted his role as a defender (see what I did there?) could he be truly righteous and thus triumph.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:35
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Sorvah posted:*Continues to read stuff about blind night ninja beating up bald fat guys* He's not fat, he's all muscles 
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Apr 21, 2015 20:36
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How did Matt not kill Nobu? How can you look at that and say that he hasn't killed anyone?
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Apr 21, 2015 20:40
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Kazy posted:How did Matt not kill Nobu? How can you look at that and say that he hasn't killed anyone? Murder is not the same as kill. Matt deflected a metal blade that was aiming to kill him, inadvertently lighting Nobu on fire. If you can't see the difference, I dunno.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:41
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Kazy posted:How did Matt not kill Nobu? How can you look at that and say that he hasn't killed anyone? Like someone already said, all Nobu had to do was fling himself out the window into the river to not die. How could Matt have known he would try to keep loving attacking him. Also, Nobu was clearly trying to murder Matt and absolutely had the upper hand. That's a clear case of self-defence.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:44
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Stumpus posted:LOL. DD doesn't know he is in a comic book universe yet. In real New York city criminals don't break out of prison.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:45
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Phylodox posted:Like someone already said, all Nobu had to do was fling himself out the window into the river to not die. How could Matt have known he would try to keep loving attacking him. There's a huge difference between killing in self defense and carrying out a premeditated assassination. In fact, Matt almost getting killed is a direct result of his attempt to go kill Fisk in that warehouse.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:46
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Kazy posted:How did Matt not kill Nobu? How can you look at that and say that he hasn't killed anyone? If someone attacks you with a knife, and accidentally ends up cutting himself in the struggle, was it your fault? Of course not. Nobu threw the chain knife at Matt, Matt blocks the knife, the knife ricochets upward and hits a light bulb which ignites the gasoline in the room. Then, being on fire, decides to try and continue stabbing Matt instead of jumping in the massive body of water nearby. Now, him knocking the knife into the light bulb may have been intentional or not, but when someone is beating the poo poo out of you and about to kill you, you usually don't have the luxury to not take an opening just because it might hurt or kill them. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 20:50
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zoux posted:There's a huge difference between killing in self defense and carrying out a premeditated assassination. In fact, Matt almost getting killed is a direct result of his attempt to go kill Fisk in that warehouse. Exactly, which goes back to what I said about how every time Matt tries to commit murder (not killing inadvertently or in self defence) he is punished for it. Likewise Karen killing Wesley. It's a major, explicitly stated theme of the show that committing murder has grave consequences.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:50
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Phylodox posted:Exactly, which goes back to what I said about how every time Matt tries to commit murder (not killing inadvertently or in self defence) he is punished for it. Likewise Karen killing Wesley. It's a major, explicitly stated theme of the show that committing murder has grave consequences. In case it wasn't clear I was quoting you to elaborate on your point not contradict it.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:51
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Rocksicles posted:The Mandarin is crap at speaking Mandarin? That's what she wants you to think. The Sharmat posted:Nah you're saying they shouldn't have made him black and then killed him, which is not that different. No he's not. He's saying "not only did they make the character a different race than in the comics, but they also killed him, which is also different from the comics. Killing Ben sucked. Not because he was black but because he's awesome and a great piece of the Daredevil narrative in the comics. Without him, it's harder to explore a lot of really cool elements of some of the more classic Daredevil stories and I wish they'd kept him around. It would have been better to have the Kingpin off his wife or one of his kids or something. In the comics, Ben is a pretty important character. His race has nothing to with anything really. In fact, one of the biggest changes they made in the series is that Ben has always been a chain smoker and Matt can always smell him.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:57
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zoux posted:Yeah they go way out of their way, in fact you might argue it's the central internal conflict in the show, to say that the murder of Fisk is a moral issue not a practical one and the killing of Fisk would taint Matt irrevocably and cause more damage than Fisk ever did. (and would in fact make him into a super ninja Kingpin) Yeah, this was what that whole "poisoning the well" speech from the priest was about. Yes, it'd be good for Fisk to be gone. But a human has to actually do that, and when they do, it does terrible damage to them and then society has to deal with THAT person instead. You'd be replacing one murderer with another.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:58
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XboxPants posted:Yeah, this was what that whole "poisoning the well" speech from the priest was about. Yes, it'd be good for Fisk to be gone. But a human has to actually do that, and when they do, it does terrible damage to them and then society has to deal with THAT person instead. You'd be replacing one murderer with another. I honestly thought that Proverbs speech from the priest was one of the best justifications for don't kill superhero rules that I've heard.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:04
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BiggerBoat posted:That's what she wants you to think. They can always bring in Sally Floyd! She can ask Matt when the last time he went to Nascar and watched a YouTube clip!
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Apr 21, 2015 21:05
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Hell, now they can bring in JJJ and the Bugle crew.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:07
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Get me pictures of Daredevil!
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Apr 21, 2015 21:08
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I hope they don't wuss out on the Hitler 'stache this time.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:09
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The Sharmat posted:Jessica Jones sounds like a potentially really interesting character concept that would be incredibly hard to actually execute. Well, let's talk about Jessica Jones for a minute. Running the room on that one is Melissa Rosenberg. She was a key player in seasons 1-4 on Dexter; big enough to co-write 3 of the 4 season finales, an honor traditionally left to the showrunner. (Of course, that position was always hilariously fluid on that show.) Then she left to handle all the scripts for the Twilight series, and at this point some of you are probably starting to feel sick. Anyway, once finished with that she created Red Widow, which aired for 9 episodes during one of ABC's mid-seasons, and probably didn't get much traction because it was painfully slow. So Jessica Jones is a toss-up. Frankly, despite all the doom and gloom her last few projects portend, I'm hopeful. Twilight is Twilight; it's the kind of thing where you have to stick close to the book lest the base riot, so there's not a lot of room for her own voice in there. And based on what happened with Ben Urich (as well as so many other things) it's obvious Marvel's asking their Netflix showrunners to work under certain specifications; troubling in some ways, but Rosenberg might thrive under those circumstances. I dunno. I'm sure excited to see how it pans out.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:11
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It doesn't seem suuuuper cool that one of Marvel's first leading women if it's following the comics is basically going to feature Rape Man as the villain and use rape as a plot device for character development. Then again, they might not be going that direction. Just from reading about the Purple Man I'm hoping it's not as rapey as the book.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:34
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Purple Man doesn't rape Jessica Jones.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:40
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zoux posted:Get me pictures of Daredevil! Peter Parker is so annoyed every time his boss says that.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:43
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zoux posted:Purple Man doesn't rape Jessica Jones. I only know of the comic secondhand, but doesn't he make her watch as he rapes/sexually assaults other women though?
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Apr 21, 2015 21:45
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zoux posted:Purple Man doesn't rape Jessica Jones. By a very, very technical margin. He certainly abuses her in a sexual context in the comics. mikeraskol posted:I only know of the comic secondhand, but doesn't he make her watch as he rapes/sexually assaults other women though? And beg him to do the same to her, yes.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:46
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Nobu's death kind of bugged me because he never even considered "does this count as me killing someone?" at all. Maybe it does or doesn't, but he acted liked nothing happened. Think about killing Fisk? Gotta confess. Burn a ninja dude down? Eh whatever I got other poo poo to do. And everyone else was ignoring it completely or making jokes pretty much. Also because he was a rad loving ninja and that's a sad thing to lose (of course, more ninjas will show up later I'm sure). Minor, but did bug me a little. Also I imagine he could do more good doing what they WERE doing on Arrow where he'd go all Robin Hood and make the evil rich people donate their money to the poor and stuff. Beat the poo poo out of them until they'll do anything you say, tell them to give away all their money, thus helping the poor people of the city and also removing one of the evil person's sources of power / their only source of power.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:48
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Light Gun Man posted:Nobu's death kind of bugged me because he never even considered "does this count as me killing someone?" at all. Maybe it does or doesn't, but he acted liked nothing happened. Think about killing Fisk? Gotta confess. Burn a ninja dude down? Eh whatever I got other poo poo to do. And everyone else was ignoring it completely or making jokes pretty much. Also because he was a rad loving ninja and that's a sad thing to lose (of course, more ninjas will show up later I'm sure). Minor, but did bug me a little. Green Arrow literally had a list of evil rich people to go after. Matt didn't even know Fisk's name until 3-4 episodes in. Gaz-L posted:By a very, very technical margin. He certainly abuses her in a sexual context in the comics. I guess it could be done, but you'd have to do it really well.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:50
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greatn posted:It doesn't seem suuuuper cool that one of Marvel's first leading women if it's following the comics is basically going to feature Rape Man as the villain and use rape as a plot device for character development. Then again, they might not be going that direction. Just from reading about the Purple Man I'm hoping it's not as rapey as the book. If you haven't read the book, you really should. Yes, Kilgrave is SUPER creepy, but the story is very easy to interpret as a recovery narrative. It's not 'girl is abused by Mr Rape and is traumatised, The End', it's about her facing up to that experience and moving on with her life, in the best way of all comic books: The power of really blatant symbolic rear end-kickings. With more swearing than your average Marvel book.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:53
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mikeraskol posted:Green Arrow literally had a list of evil rich people to go after. Matt didn't even know Fisk's name until 3-4 episodes in. Yeah but his whole deal is that he's doing the things the law doesn't/can't do. He should know this probably extends to actually giving Fisk or whoever a proper trial and conviction and keeping them in jail. Maybe that's his lawyer side telling him that part will work out though, I suppose. Not that he exactly every really had any of the big players beaten and at his mercy though, hmm. They managed to dodge it every time, didn't they?
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Apr 21, 2015 21:53
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How the hell is there not a digital collection of Alias?
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Apr 21, 2015 21:54
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