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Kavak posted:Why would I want to own a megacorp? There are guaranteed to be a ton of traitors in it, and I'm making an already lovely world worse unless I decided to scuttle the thing and spread as many corporate secrets to the people as I can. Do they give any advice on how to fit this stuff in an ongoing campaign? quote:Actually, do people know their realm's Laws? The axioms you can suss out by experimenting, but is the Law of Betrayal common knowledge or just a GM thing?
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Apr 20, 2015 21:14
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Oh, this reminds me:Kavak posted:Coupled with the lack of organization, Torg comes across as an game line made entirely of first drafts. I've been doing all the Torg posts with the information presented mostly in the same order it is in the books so you can experience my confusion pretty much in real-time. Do people want me to keep doing that, or would people prefer me trying to put things in some sort of order so they're easier to read?
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Apr 20, 2015 21:17
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Young Freud posted:Yeah, one of the things I kinda like my Ayn Randian head-rewrite of Nippon Tech is that there's none of this bullshit "bankrupt the company, kill yourself". That's a literally a feature not a bug. With MarSec SOP, no one on Wall Street would probably be left alive. Bernie Madoff or Ken Lay committing hari-kiri on live television or getting their brains blown out by a death squad is what most people would consider justice. The whole "hara-kiri konichiwa" bullshit strikes me as hardcore Randian, actually. It's a universe where successful executives are brilliant corporate ubermensches, because if they screw up once they get murdered by the manifest hand of the free market. It seems kind of counterintuitive to the whole cyberpunk angle, but I guess no one's ever accused Torg of particularly focused writing. And it ignores that Japanese executives are just as much of a bunch of parasitic shitlords as their American counterparts if not more so, but that's not really a surprise.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:21
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Evil Mastermind posted:Players know the Laws, yes. It's never said if axiom values and world laws are things people know about in-setting. Huh, that seems like a very important thing that should've been explained in the core book. As for the reviews, keep posting these things as-is. Large amounts of the humor/pain is seeing concepts go totally unexplained for chapters or things that should be front and center tucked in the back of the book.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:24
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It should be pointed out that Nippon Tech actually isn't a cyberpunk setting beyond having megacorporations. There's no cybernetics or implants or VR Net. That being said, one of 3327's long-term goals is to gain access to the Cyberpapacy's technology and get his world working on it. The wrinkle in this is that the only way 3327 can do this is to create or take over factories in CyberFrance since that's the only place the tech can exist, and Malraux knows 3327 is trying to worm his way in.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:26
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PurpleXVI posted:I think honestly I have no bigger pet peeve with fantasy settings(or sci-fi, but it happens less regularly there) than when they rename stuff just to be unique. I mean, yes, great, it's a ghoul, I'm not going to be awed by the fact that you're calling it a gul instead. That? That's a vampire. No, it's not a loving "fampyr," it's a vampire. It drinks blood and it charms/dominates dudes, melts in the sun, it's a loving vampire. But are elves still elves if they're actually pretty ugly dudes, use magical flamethrowers and pilot golems like friggin' Gundams? Evil Mastermind posted:Because that review is still my magnum opus and probably the best thing I've ever written. Certainly the most baffling d20 iteration I've seen here. Yes, more baffling than the Fieldsverse. FMguru posted:The general rule for making up fantasy languages and vocabularies is: unless you are a learned professor of languages or philology who has dedicated your life to the field (JRR Tolkien, MAR Barker), don't. Anyone remember that guy who wrote Eragon? He likes greeting his fans with his "Let's take normal English grammar, but replace everything with kewl, vaguely Norse-sounding names I came up with when I was 16 or so" language. Heck, I did something like that when I was like 12 or 14, but I had the decency to keep it to myself. gradenko_2000 posted:Adventure Fantasy Game, part 2 Man, the encounter creation and character advancement rules are quite nifty. It's like taking new and old editions and getting rid of the bullshit. The GM doesn't have to deal with Challenge Rating magic, and the players won't be pissed because they're 2 gold pieces short of a level up. Evil Mastermind posted:Sorry to disappoint, but despite the fact that we get details on all the major megacorps, there's no details at all about ninja clans. Not even a corporations whose members just so happen to be business-suit-wearing ninja? Doresh fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 21:27
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Kavak posted:As for the reviews, keep posting these things as-is. Large amounts of the humor/pain is seeing concepts go totally unexplained for chapters or things that should be front and center tucked in the back of the book.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:30
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Evil Mastermind posted:It should be pointed out that Nippon Tech actually isn't a cyberpunk setting beyond having megacorporations. There's no cybernetics or implants or VR Net. The Kanawa catalog books have some details of them setting up firms like Hellfire LTD on the outskirts of Paris to develop new weapons technology or experiment with Cyberpapacy stuff. It's also funny that while 3327 is doing this that he literally has the much more advanced Tharkold technology drop into his lap. But that's another story.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:35
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Young Freud posted:It's also funny that while 3327 is doing this that he literally has the much more advanced Tharkold technology drop into his lap. But that's another story. Well, given how much Tharkhold hates 3327 since it's his fault they got kicked out of Russia before they could drop their bridge, he'd have an even harder time getting an "in" there.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:40
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Fine, then my Buddho-Marxist buddy doesn't have to be cybernetic. Even though that'd be cool.Doresh posted:Anyone remember that guy who wrote Eragon? He likes greeting his fans with his "Let's take normal English grammar, but replace everything with kewl, vaguely Norse-sounding names I came up with when I was 16 or so" language. Not a huge surprise - that dude's life peaked at 16 when his first book was published and he became very briefly famous.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:51
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Mors Rattus posted:Fine, then my Buddho-Marxist buddy doesn't have to be cybernetic. Even though that'd be cool.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:54
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 With little fanfare in February 17th, 2015, a new 3rd Party Pathfinder product landed on the market. In spite of a similar-sounding name to Path of War, this publisher was Ascension Games, a new company with no previous works to its name. It's hard to believe that it's their first work, for it has high production values and came about as the result of a year's worth of hard work. As of this posting there's not a lot of reviews about it, but the concept is nifty enough that I picked it up myself. So what is Path of Shadows? It is an 81-page crunch-focused book of new shadow-themed magic material, from the new Nightblade class (no, not that "nightblade") to new class archetypes, feats, spells, and magic items. Instead of focusing on a narrow purview (such as illusion spells or arcane/divine stuff), Path of Shadows explores how the powers of darkness can be utilized in many interesting and different ways.  We begin with a short introduction on how magic drawn from the Plane of Shadow often defies easy categorization. The realms' mutability allows many spellcasters the ability to replicate all kinds of effects, from convincing illusions to life-sapping negative energy. Certain individual spells, such as the famed Shadow Conjuration/Evocation line, could prepare a mage for any number of situations. You might have noticed that the book doesn't really present shadow magic as sinister or evil, instead focusing on its variable nature. This is deliberate, for much of the material can be used by characters of any alignment. I like this alternate take, on how Shadow is more a force of nature than a creeping danger which hates all that is right and just. Chapter 1: The Nightblade  Nightblades in short are experts of combat, stealth, and spell, utilizing the power of shadows to confuse, demoralize, and weaken their opponents. The many ways a nightblade can be taught are numerous, and they specialize in various "Paths" which grant them specialty in certain areas. For example, Path of the Bloodied Chain makes one a master of fear, utilizing the haunting rattling of spectral chains and literally feeding off of opponents' fear, Path of the Darkened Fortress allows you to create and mold raw shadowstuff into tangible material, and so on and so forth. As the game mechanics are OGL, the nightblade's write-up can be seen on D20 Pathfinder SRD. Nightblades have spontaneous bardic-progression arcane spellcasting, and they have a versatile skill list with a decent amount of points (6 + Int modifier) per level. They are lightly-armored combatants, proficient in light armor, simple weapons plus longsword/rapier/spiked chain/scythe/short sword/shortbow, and a d8 hit die and Medium BAB progression with good Reflex and Will saves. In other words, a more offensive-minded bard. Nightblade spells are quite versatile, ranging from common illusions such as hypnotic pattern and invisibility to area of effect attacks such as stinking cloud. They also get a few energy and evocation-focused spells, including some of the new damaging spells in this book to old standbys such as cone of cold and lightning bolt. Rounding this out are some divination techniques like clairaudience/clairvoyance, see invisibility, share memory, and the like. In spite of being spontaneous casters nightblades have a lot of magic to choose from, and certain Paths (such as Ravaging Void or Twilight Veil) can further enhance the spells which fall under their purview. Nightblades gain some sneak-focused class features such as Evasion, the ability to gain or extend natural darkvision, hide in plain sight, and even personal-range dimension door through shadows at 11th level, but the meat of their progression lies in the Shadow Surge, Nightblade Arts, and Paths, the latter two of which provide a list of sample choices for the player to pick rather than a linear path. We'll look at Arts first. A Shadow Surge is more akin to an activated buff spell, or a Tome of Battle/Path of War stance in that they call up inner reserves as part of an activated ability which can be used and created an unlimited number of times per day. However, summoning the energy for a surge requires a standard action, and the nightblade can only gain the benefits of one type of surge at a time (but at 8th and 17th levels the nightblade can have two or three kinds of surges active at once). The default shadow surge can be used (as in dropped that round) to make the nightblade roll twice on all Stealth checks, taking the better result. Other types of surges can be learned via nightblade arts or paths. Nightblade Arts Nightblade Arts are techniques meant to combine the class' natural talents with their affinity for shadow. They're sort of akin to rogue talents in that they're learned at 3rd and every 3 levels thereafter, and can't be selected more than once. Some are limited-use or require a shadow surge, while some are always-active (such as a feat or negating a Stealth movement penalty). There are 20 Arts in total, so I'm not going to go over them all, but instead show off a few of the more interesting ones. Beckoning Shadows can forcibly teleport another creature within 50 feet by using the nightblade's own Shadow Shift class feature (the dimension door one) but it has to end on solid footing and can't to into solid objects. Pretty nifty battlefield control, but it seems a little high-level (15th) to get. Dusk Strike allows the nightblade to expend a shadow surge as a swift action to resolve a melee/ranged/natural weapon as a touch attack as the weapon phases partially into the Plane of Shadows. It's a lot like Tome of Battle's Emerald Razor or Path of War's Scarlet Eye's Perception maneuver, only this one's higher level to get (9th) and can be used more often (shadow surges are effectively infinite, even during encounters). Fall of Night is similar in that it can blind, stagger, or exhaust an opponent, but only upon a confirmation of a critical hit and expending a shadow surge and the opponent has to fail a Fortitude save. Rather high prerequisites (15th level), and there are lower-level spells which can do similar debuffs more reliably. Focused Cast is great because it allows the nightblade to take 10 on any concentration check for spells with the expenditure of a shadow surge. Hidden Strike is cool because you can move at full speed without taking a Stealth penalty, and partial concealment benefits in dim light increase from 20% to 50%. Must-use for sniper builds. Penumbral Aegis allows the nightblade to add her Charisma modifier as an untyped bonus to her touch AC (can't exceed normal AC), as latent shadowstuff redirects potentially hostile attacks. It's high-level to get (12th), but as nightblades are Charisma-focused casters this is a potentially good option if enemy mages are going to show up a lot in the campaign. Shadow Cache allows the nightblade to store various personal belongings in a hidden space in the Plane of Shadow. It functions like the Secret Chest spell, except that its duration is indefinite until the nightblade dismisses it or is killed, needs no focus, and cannot hold creatures. Shadow Transference allows the nightblade to manipulate the effects of other people's shadow magic, even if the spell is already in effect. Effectively the nightblade spends a shadow surge as a standard action to take the ongoing effects of a spell with the darkness descriptor and shift it onto another creature within 10 feet (Will save if applicable). In typical Pathfinder [darkness] spells which do this are rather rare, and it can't be used on spells with a range of "personal" or one which does not target one or more creatures or objects. There's quite a few new buff spells in this book which can fit this description, but the Art is situational. Void Sight is an awesome buff, for it can grant multiple willing targets within 30 feet the ability to gain darkvision and see invisibility effects with a caster level equal to class level. Unfortunately the level-based prerequisite is steep (15th). I'd personally lower it to 7th level, and the amount of targets which can benefit are one per 3 nightblade levels anyway. Warp Strike calls upon the Plane of Shadows to distort space itself around the nightblade, granting all melee attacks a 5 foot reach bonus with a shadow surge as a swift action. At 12th level the bonus increases by 10 feet! Alternatively, this Art can be used to reduce the penalty on ranged attack rolls by 2 or 4 (at 12th level). This is very, very good for melee-focused builds; get the Lunge feat and a reach weapon with Enlarge Person and the nightblade can be hitting foes up to 30 feet away! Casting Art and Combat Art grant a bonus metamagic or combat feat, whereas Flexible Art grants a bonus feat of any kind but the nightblade must be at least 12th level in order to take. You know, in case you feel like taking the boring option. Nightblade Paths As mentioned earlier, Nightblades gain access to mystic styles known as Paths, each drawing upon shadow magic in its own unique way. Each nightblade focuses on a specific tradition, and must choose one at 1st level. Once chosen, it cannot be changed. Paths grant all sorts of stuff, from new uses for shadow surges, a limited-use per-day power, techniques which are gained at 1st/5th/10th/etc levels, unique nightblade arts, additional class features and the like. Nightblades who follow the Path of the Bloodied Chain prefer to strike fear into the hearts of their enemies, believed to originate among the kyton devils for its chain-themed powers. Its limited-use power is an AoE attack as entangling chains of darkness frighten foes upon a failed save and lower the light level in the affected area. The shadow surge can create a phantom rattling chain sound to increase the duration of fear effects, and techniques involve fear effects which can debuff the enemy while granting buffs to the nightblade for enemies they frighten. The nightblade arts are similar, although bloodied chains allows the AoE attack to inflict bleed damage. Normally this would have a lot of the problems of fear and enchantment spells, but at 5th level it can remove such an immunity on enemies within 10 feet. I assume that this means that it can work on undead, mindless creatures, and the like, although fear effects are mind-affecting abilities; so what happens if a creature's immunity is to mind-affecting effects, but not to fear effects? That's one of the hard parts about Pathfinder's rules-heavy nature, although in such a case I'd personally rule that Bloodied Chain would work on all these creatures; being like Batman's Scarecrow is kind of the Path's theme, after all. Nightblades who follow the Path of the Darkened Fortress focus on using shadow energy for creation, forming solid objects and even structures out of the dark mass. Its limited-use power is a customized weapon made of shadow-stuff which can gain enhancements over time, although its limited to 1 min/level. The shadow surge ability turns the user's shadow into a solid barrier as an immediate action, granting bonuses on AC and Reflex saving throws vs. incoming attacks. Techniques include gaining an arcane bond, an item creation bonus feat and even ignore some spell-specific prerequisites, the ability to ignore sneak attacks and critical hits some of the time, your own personal demiplane, and DR/Silver and immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks as the capstone 20th level ability! Nightblade arts unique to this Path include new enchantments and abilities for one's shadow-weapons, bonded object, and the ability to create lightweight (1 lb/level) objects made of quasi-real shadowstuff. Path of the Darkened Fortress is a very powerful Path, depending on how liberal your GM is for magic item crafting in your campaign. The ability to ignore up to 5 spell prerequisites is a boon for the otherwise-limited spontaneous caster, and the Shadow Armament's effectively a free magic weapon whose properties can switch around with every summoning of it. Nightblades who follow the Path of Eternal Night focus on the macabre discipline of death and entropy to wear down their opponents, drawing upon the barrier between the Plane of Shadow and the Negative Energy Plane. Its limited-use power can create a corruption aura of negative energy within a 5 foot radius which does not heal undead (who actually flee in panic from you on a failed Will save!) but deals damage to those within its space (including moving past them). The shadow surge is awesome, for it forces a touched enemy to roll their next d20 roll twice and take the lower result. Techniques include the ability to feed off the life energy of nearby dead/dying creatures in exchange for buffs, granting Diehard to yourself and allies within 10 feet, animating opponents' shadows to attack them as a greater shadow monster, and a bunch of undead immunities as a 20th-level capstone. Nightblade arts include similarly creepy things, like being able to teleport between corpses, corruption aura buffs, and the like. This is a pretty cool Path, although it brings up the question of a potential negative energy aura/dead creature buff. Do blades of grass and tiny insects which die from your entropy? The corruption aura is still limited-use per day, but does not have a duration. Depending on the GM's ruling traveling through fertile lands might near-constant buff abilities. Nightblades who follow the Path of the Ravaging Void are basically the elementalists of their class. They create powerful evocations out of raw shadowstuff, from searing flames to numbing cold. Fortunately there's quite a bit of shadow-themed evocation spells in this book, making for a worthwhile Path! Its limited-use power includes the ability to designate an area as "elemental shade," converting energy spells and magical effects cast within the area to a certain type other than sonic (so you can get a cold damage fireball, an acidic lightning bolt, etc with this). The shadow surge is a chilling ray of darkness which deals damage on a ranged touch attack (and damage increases with level); naturally it can be combined with Elemental Shade and surges , so you've got a diverse arsenal. Techniques include the ability to create a protective ward of energy resistance, granting debuffs to damage-dealing energy attacks based on their type (cold slows, for example), spending additional spell slots to cast sorc/wiz and nightblade evocation energy spells, becoming a being of pure shadow energy, and the ability to roll twice vs. spell resistance and take the better result with evocation spells as a 20th level capstone ability. Arts are rather blase, affecting energy spells in some way, although one of them turns the elemental shade into a gravity magnet which can draw enemies towards it! It's really good because it not only can grant a huge selection of energy spells to a nightblade, the ability to switch around energy types allows the caster to customize their spells against the right kind of opponent. The final entry, Path of the Twilight Veil, relies upon the deceptions of illusion. Its probably the thing a lot of you thought when you saw this class, but it really goes to show the imaginative use of the paths by branching beyond this archetype of shadow magic. Its limited-use power creates an area of distorted shadows which bestow random afflictions on an enemy, sort of like prismatic spray but less power. Its shadow surge allows the nightblade to turn invisible as a move action for one round per level, and cannot regain surges until the invisibility ends (its normal invisibility, so it falls when hostile action's taken). Its techniques include duration extension on illusion spells and additional spells known of that school from sorc/wizard or nightblade spell list, a wall of darkness which can entrance onlookers, a memory-modifying greater invisibility which blocks most forms of divination and can make opponents forget the nightblade was there, and can turn one concentration-duration illusion cast permanent (only one can be maintained this way at a time) as a 20th-level capstone ability. Most of the Arts involve strengthening the limited-use power in some way, including making it so entrancing it can be used on blind and mindless creatures, but one Art allows the nightblade to roll a Bluff/Sleight of Hand opposed by Perception to disguise the fact that they are casting a spell (although spells with an obvious effect and origin, such as burning hands, cannot be concealed this way). Illusion spells are very good and can enhance the nightblade's already-good stealth capabilities, but the large amount of mind-immune enemies at higher levels can blunt its effectiveness depending on the campaign. Overall, the paths are rather good at what they do, although the Eternal Night one might cause some problems. And so ends Chapter I. New chapter, we'll focus on new class archetypes with a darker twist in more ways than one! Thoughts so far: The nightblade is a very versatile mage-thief. Its list of various powers might be overwhelming to new players, from the spell lists to the Arts to the Paths on display, and some of the Arts' prerequisites I feel can be lowered a bit. They can function as effective battlefield controllers, scouts, blaster casters, and even potential gishes with the right Arts and spells. Overall, its a class with some good promise and interesting fluff. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 04:56
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Libertad! posted:Nightblades who follow the Path of Eternal Night focus on the macabre discipline of death and entropy to wear down their opponents, drawing upon the barrier between the Plane of Shadow and the Negative Energy Plane. Its limited-use power can create a corruption aura of negative energy within a 5 foot radius which does not heal undead (who actually flee in panic from you on a failed Will save!) but deals damage to those within its space (including moving past them). The shadow surge is awesome, for it forces a touched enemy to roll their next d20 roll twice and take the lower result. Techniques include the ability to feed off the life energy of nearby dead/dying creatures in exchange for buffs, granting Diehard to yourself and allies within 10 feet, animating opponents' shadows to attack them as a greater shadow monster, and a bunch of undead immunities as a 20th-level capstone. Nightblade arts include similarly creepy things, like being able to teleport between corpses, corruption aura buffs, and the like. Limited-use without duration makes me suspect this is actually an instant effect, like a kind of fancy Channel Negative Energy. Other than that, looks nifty. Like a less confused Shadow Dancer.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:00
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It's time for the Afterthought podcast. We briefly try to discuss the role of religion in gaming, but it's mostly just listener questions and total nonsense! Episode 4
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Apr 21, 2015 20:07
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Chapter 2: Archetypes and Options  The Stygian Striker Magus Archetype Note: So due to the limited amount of pictures to draw from and my rather detailed explanations, this post ended up becoming a wall of text. I don't know if the readers in this thread mind or not, but I can make future posts shorter and more concise if there's demand for it. For those of you are unfamiliar with Pathfinder, the game introduced an aspect to 3.X/D20 known as an archetype. Basically its a kit for an existing class meant to be in line with a certain theme, trading out existing features in exchange for new ones. Many borrow from existing classes, such as an Arcane Healer bard archetype being able to channel positive energy and spend bardic music for healing, but some are new features entirely. Archetypes, both official and third party, are becoming a more popular option than prestige classes. As most can be taken at early levels without having to worry about restrictive prerequisites, they are more accepting to newcomers and low-level games and require less book-keeping. As for Path of Shadow, the archetypes cover not just the nightblade, but existing Pathfinder classes from the core books and expansions. Along with that, this chapter also contains new options for classes, such as alchemist discoveries. The ten new Alchemist Discoveries include stuff like the ability to create powder to snuff out nonmagical light sources at will, a shadowy darkness bomb which fatigues the target and saps away the surrounding light source, darkvision enhancement and blindness immunity, and even a bottled assistant who can be poured out to do various tasks! Thoughts: They're all neat and flavorful, and none of them really strike me as useless or underpowered. The anti-paladin's Warrior of Unholy Darkness archetype focuses on the corrupting powers in darkness. In exchange for trading away their spellcasting abilities in exchange for the Power of Corruption, which emanates a 30 foot radius of unholy darkness which imposes penalties on enemies' AC, halves the effectiveness of healing spells, lowers the light level, and at higher levels can deal ability damage and lowering energy resistance to those caught within. At 14th level they replace aura of sin (treat weapons as evil for Damage Reduction purposes) with Darkest Shadows, an area of effect attack which harms good-aligned creatures and blinds them but heals evil creatures and grants them bonuses on d20 rolls. Thoughts: A very nice archetype overall. Barbarians get new Rage Powers, including the Lunar Totem tree of powers (can bite and gain DR/Silver like a lycanthrope, bonuses vs. shapechanging and curses), the Shadow Blood tree of powers (bonus cold damage, weapon's treated as magic, silver, and eventually cold iron, and bonuses vs. illusion and fear), and the Shadow Totem tree (weapon deals Strength damage, gain darkvision, and can turn incorporeal and have ghost touch weapon property for duration). Thoughts: Lunar Totem's good if you're a multi-weapon barbarian due to the bite attack, but Shadow Blood and Shadow Totem are quite versatile. Being able to get through a lot of common DR types is a boon, and turning incorporeal while still being able to hit one's enemies is a great deal. Bloodragers are a class introduced in Paizo's Advanced Class Guide. Basically they're barbarian/sorcerer hybrids, with spontaneous paladin-level (4th level max) casting progression. Like sorcerers they gain access to bloodlines, which grant them bonus abilities as they level. Path of Shadows introduces the Shadow Bloodline, and in comparison to the existing ones (especially Aberrant, Celestial, and Arcane), its properties feel a bit limiting. For comparison, the Aberrant bloodline grants increased reach, Celestial a fly speed, Arcane free spell buffs (such as haste and blur) while raging without expending existing spell slots. Thoughts: Shadow replicates a lot of the earlier barbarian rage powers listed, minus the cool incorporealness. At higher levels you get some nice stuff such as blindness immunity or the entangled condition to people within 5 feet due to your aura of deeper darkness, but it doesn't really stack well to the official ones I just mentioned. The Cleric gets the Shadow Priest archetype, where in lieu of gaining a 2nd domain they must select the Darkness domain, or Loss or Night subdomain. In exchange, they add darkness-themed spells to their cleric spell list (including existing ones and new Path of Shadow magic), and instead of channeling positive or negative energy (Pathfinder's equivalent to Turn Undead) they can create a burst of darkness which damages living creatures and staggers undead ones (no save) for 1 round. It can also cancel out mundane and magical light sources, the latter depending on how high the Cleric level is to affect said spell. Additionally, Shadow Priests cast all spells at +1 Caster Level when casting in an area of dim or nonexistent light, and reduces the spell level adjustment on metamagic feats by 1 when applied to spells with the [darkness] and [shadow] descriptors. Thoughts: This is a pretty powerful archetype, especially in light of the many ways this book offers to lower the level of light in an area. Druids get Lunar Guardian, devotees of the moon who go out to defend their homes under the cover of night. In exchange for removing all light-themed spells from their spell list, they gain access to new darkness and cold-themed spells. They must choose a nocturnal animal as an animal companion or the Darkness domain in place of nature bond. In exchange for woodland stride they gain low-light vision, darkvision if they already have that, or enhanced darkvision by 30 feet if they have that. Instead of Resist Nature's Lure (saving throw bonus vs. fey and plant-targeting spells) they instead apply their bonus to spells of the light, darkness, or shadow descriptors. Instead of poison immunity they gain disease immunity, and instead of A Thousand Faces (alter self at will) they can see perfectly in any mundane or magical darkness. Thoughts: Discounting 3rd party books, druids do not have many light-themed spells, and darkness-themed magic in my experience is more common than fey spells. Being able to see in darkness is very useful, so this is a pretty good archetype if you don't mind less versatility in potential domain or animal companion options. The Magus gains access to the Stygian Striker archetype, arcane warriors who use shadow magic to gain the upper hand on foes. They gain Stealth as a class skill and lose Knowledge (Dungeoneering), use the saving throw progression of a bard instead of the base cleric-like one they have (good fort and will), and in lieu of spell recall (swift action to regain one spell already cast) they can spend a swift action to become invisible for 1 round/level instead with an expenditure from their Arcane Pool. The Stealth trade-off is great, but losing spell recall in exchange for one spell effect isn't very good. Instead of medium and heavy armor proficiency Stygian Strikers gain Evasion and Improved Evasion. They can also learn nightblade Arts as though they were Magus Arcana, using their magus level as effective nightblade levels, but may only learn Arts which require a shadow surge to use. They can spend points from their arcane pool as though they were shadow surges. They can also Hide in Plain Sight instead of gaining Fighter Training (which treats 1/2th the magus levels as Fighter levels for feat prerequisites). Thoughts: Overall, I feel that this is not a good trade. The magus is first and foremost a melee warrior, so losing access to medium and heavy armor casting at higher levels is a big loss for them. Gaining access to nightblade arts is nifty, although this archetype feels kind of superfluous when a properly-built nightblade can fill much the same role as a sneaky gish. Monks of the Eclipsing Moon prefer to train and meditate under the night sky to obtain physical and spiritual perfection, and cannot be Lawful Good. They use a modified list of bonus feats which includes things such as Nightmare Fist and Moonlight Stalker lines of feat trees. Instead of still mind they gain saving throw bonuses vs. spells with the emotion, pain, or fear descriptors (an overall downgrade from enchantment spells), darkvision (and enhanced potentially) instead of slow fall, and instead of gaining improved speed or dodge bonuses when spending a ki point can double their darkvision or cast faerie fire. As you can tell, these monks aren't really movement-based, and instead of high jump (can jump better on Acrobatics checks) they can instead cast darkness or deeper darkness by spending points from their ki pool. Their Abundant Step teleportation must begin and end in an area of dim light or darkness, and instead of gaining universal language speech with Tongue of the Sun and Moon they can see perfectly in any form of darkness. Thoughts: The Pathfinder Monk was already a weak class, but I feel that this archetype is slightly more restrictive than a standard monk. The Qinggong Monk can grant a more diverse set of spell-like effects. Additionally, given the large list of monk bonus feats in Pathfinder rulebooks, limiting their selection to a small list isn't a good idea. Darkness effects might make for good battlefield control, but it doesn't really give much in comparison to classes which can already do this. The Nightblade, naturally, has five archetypes. The Dark Conjurer specializes in summoning forth semi-real hordes of ravening monsters made out of shadowstuff. In exchange for their limited-use path power they gain the Summoner class progression of Summon Monster, except they cast Summon Horror (a new spell in this book) instead. They gain a shadow familiar (as in the Dark Fortress Path) instead of their 1st level technique, can add all summon monster or summon horror spells to her list of spells known, in exchange for her 3rd level nightblade art. Finally, they can see through their familiar's senses a limited amount of time per day instead of a 9th level nightblade art. Thoughts: Summoning monsters is a very good use of the action economy, in that the more actions one side can perform in battle the likelier their chances are of winning. As the limited-use Path Powers aren't the end-all be all of the Paths, this is a worthy trade. The Shadowstriker prefers to focus more on martial pursuits in exchange for more limited magical capabilities. They gain one fewer spell per day at each spell level, must take Path of the Darkened Fortress and a bonded weapon as their arcane bond, and replace their Evasion/Improved Evasion and 6th level nightblade arts with Weapon Focus/Specialization/Greater Weapon Focus; this last alternative a rather lovely trade-off. They replace most of their path techniques, hide in plain sight, and triple surge for the ability to cast spells in medium and heavy armor, can apply their Dark Fortress weapon enhancements at an earlier level and eventually to any held weapon at 9th level, treat their Nightblade level as effective Fighter levels -3, and can shapeshift their shadow armament into any kind of weapon (gaining its new properties and restrictions). Thoughts: The versatility of applying a wide variety of magical weapon properties to any wielded weapon is pretty good, but the rest of the alternate class features are rather meh. The reduced movement penalties and armor check penalties of heavy armor aren't well-suited for the stealthy nightblade, and a lot of Fighter-exclusive feats aren't very swell even in Pathfinder. The Shadow Agent is a more assassin-like nightblade, who prefer to hone their killing arts. They trade in their limited-use path power and 1st level path technique for very limited sneak attack progression (1d6 plus 1d6 every 6 levels), inability to accidentally poison themselves and an incremental level-based bonus on Craft (alchemy) bonuses. In exchange for their 3rd level nightblade art they can apply poison to a weapon as a move action (or swift action at 6th level). They gain uncanny dodge for free at 4th level, and at 10th level they gain a change of applying a Save or Die as an assassination technique versus flat-footed, unaware opponents they studied for 1 round in exchange for their 10th level technique. At 16th level they can assassinate targets without the 1 round limit. Thoughts: Shadow Agents are pretty much assassinations but can be of any alignment. It's superior to the Prestige Class IMO due to the Nightblade's features. That said, it eliminates some of the early-level Path techniques and powers which can be really nice, so it's really useful for poison-focused debuffer builds. The Traveller of Two Paths are nightblades who prefer a more diverse skillset. In exchange for fewer per-day path powers, fewer spells known, and can only ever have up to two shadow surges active at once, they can gain access to the limited-use powers, shadow surges, and path techniques of two Paths instead of one. Thoughts: This is a pretty swell archetype in spite of the restrictions, because a few of the Paths have some nice abilities which can be useful to many nightblade types. Finally the Veiled Infiltrator prefers to learn more mundane forms of stealth and trickery to fall back on just in case. They pretty much gain rogue abilities such as Trapfinding, Trapsense, and access to Rogue Talents in place of a 1st level Path technique. They gain an ability called Infiltrator's Veil, which on the surface looks really nice: it's a level-scaling ability which grants new stuff at increments, from the Disgusing Veil (as disguise self) nightblade art plus the ability to remain undetected by extraordinary senses such as tremorsense/scent/etc, and some constant anti-divination stuff like nondetection and the ability to even fool true seeing with a caster level check. So, what do they have to give up in exchange for this swank alternate class feature? Shadow surges, all of them. They can never gain shadow surges, nor utilize tricks or abilities which have them. Thoughts: Since so many nightblade arts rely upon this, you really need to plan out your character build in advance if you choose this, plus the really neat stuff only comes into play at the later levels. Oracles gain access to the Darkness Mystery and Forgotten Curse. In short, the Darkness Mystery grants Bluff/Intimidate/Perception/Stealth as class skills, various darkness-themed spells to spells known (go figure), and gain a host of new Revelations. Such revelations include the ability to conjure multiple 10 foot cubes of freezing darkness (cold damage and Strength damage), a cloak of dark armor (armor and Stealth bonus), the Blind-Fight feat tree, a cold fatiguing touch attack, and the ability to sprout Wings of Darkness which can grant the effects of a 1 minute/level fly speed and overland flight at 11th level. The Final Revelation grants a host of immunities, the ability to cast shades as a spell-like ability, and 20% more real shadow illusions. Thoughts: Overall a fine list. Flight's always nice, and strength-draining darkness cubes double as good battlefield control. The Forgotten Curse makes it so that people have trouble acknowledging or remembering the Orcale, imposing a -4 penalty on Charisma-based skill checks except for Disguise. In exchange they get access to spells such as disguise self, modify memory, misdirection, and the like and constant nondetection at 15th level. Thoughts: Forgotten's pretty good trade-off in comparison to other curses as the Oracle's a Charisma-based caster, so a sufficient score and skill ranks can offset this penalty. The Paladin gains access to Shadow Banisher, a scion of light dedicated to taking the fight to evil in the dark corners of the earth. They get a modified smite evil which doesn't deal double damage vs. dragons and outsiders, but instead to undead. It also applies faerie fire to the target and the wielded weapon gains ghost touch property for smite attempts. Instead of channeling positive energy, they may channel light instead to deal damage to undead and dispel darkness and shadow spells. In exchange for Aura of Resolve (allies within 10 ft. gain +4 saves vs. charm), the paladin becomes immune to aging and adds her Charisma bonus to her touch AC and to the touch AC of allies within 10 feet. Thoughts: Shadow Banisher's a good archetype. Undead are more common enemies than dragons, and AC bonuses are always welcome. The inability to use channeling to heal might be a downside, but they can still lay on hands and cast spells. A Scourge of Shadows is a rogue who delves into research of shadow magic, able to replicate some nightblade abilities. In exchange for trap sense and the sneak attack increase gained at 3rd level, they can shadow surge. They can also select nightblade Arts which utilize shadow surge in place of a rogue talent, but can only select one Art at 4th level and every 6 levels thereafter. In exchange for their sneak attack increase at 7th level they can gain Shadow Strike (surprisingly not a new feat in this book) as a bonus feat, which allows them to Sneak Attack opponents with concealment. Thoughts: The loss of trap sense and 2d6 sneak attack is more than worth gaining access to nightblade arts and the ability to do so vs. enemies who benefit from concealment. Our final class, the Shaman, can call upon the entities of night and shadow as a new Spirit. Honestly I haven't looked at this class closely, so I can't really compare its features as well as I did the previous ones. I'll still try my best, and anyone with a better working knowledge can inform me of any mistakes (this applies to other aspects of my review, too). The Darkness Spirit grants a series of related spells such as dust of twilight, shadow conjuration, etc, most of which are surprisingly not new spells found within this book. The hexes they can learn are not exactly eye-catching, such as the Blind-Fight feat tree as bonus feats, the ability to scry through areas of darkness into other shadowy places (clairaudience/clairvoyance), the ability to replicate a memory lapse spell as darkness clouds the target's mind, and the dark armor cloak basically repeated from the Oracle ability. Shamans who choose Darkness as their spirit or wandering spirit gain improved darkness, improved miss chance with concealment, a fatiguing cold-damage touch, the ability to take the form of a shadow as per shadow form (spell found later in this book), and a 20th-level capstone ability which is the same as the Oracle's. Thoughts: The Shaman feels like a cut-and-paste job of previous features as opposed to more unique things. Thoughts so far: This chapter's been a mixed bag for me. Archetypes tend to vary widely in usefulness and power level. In spite of the underpowered ones, the options which are good add neat things to class repertoires, both primary and non-primary spellcasters. Next post we'll be covering the new feats in Chapter 3. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 07:44
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Genius: The Transgression, More Merits Right off the bat in the merits section we get a detailed addition to the Resources merit. As Genius likes to dwell on, mad science is expensive, mad science doesn't pay the bills, and you're crazy so you don't function well in society. The DM is therefore actively encouraged to gently caress with the PCs' sources of income and probably get them fired. Genius posted:Adopted Orphan (● to ●●●●●): Wonders act like living creatures in some ways, and all wonders are dependent on Mania to exist. Without a genius binding Mania into a wonder, it falls apart. This merit represents a genius with a wonder (or at higher dots, multiple low-rank wonders) that someone else built. Assembly Line lets a genius use the Mania investment for one wonder to power multiple identical wonders. Say you can build a jetpack for two Mania. At one dot, you can use that two Mania to supply two jetpacks rather than one, and the number of identical jetpacks you can support for two Mania goes up 2/4/8/16/32 with more dots of the merit. Beholden are, well, ghouls from Vampire. They're the loyal, empty-minded if highly competent minions and assistants to your mad scientists, and completely lack free will, independent thought, or any ability to create or understand a view of the world of their own. They're hollow and empty, and latch on to geniuses who give them purpose and let them understand the world. Yeah, it's as creepy as it sounds and Genius spends no time at all dwelling on the implications. Mechanically, there's a whole bunch of tables associated with beholden reflecting how many you have and how effective they are at lab work or what genius simply calls "dirty work." In short, beholden can help build wonders and can use them without risk. Want to play Mr. Freeze with his army of goons that are sometimes kitted out in Freeze's own super-science stuff? This is how you do it. Calculus Vampire lets a genius (or just as often, a mane) siphon Mania and mental skills (drained mental skills are converted into Mania) from willing and unwilling subjects - geniuses, laypeople, wonders, doesn't matter. Supernaturals of all stripes are immune, but anything else with a Mania pool or mental skills is fair game. Doing this, even to a willing subject, is of course an Obligation transgression. How exactly Calculus Vampire works varies from individual to individual, but it always requires physical contact and that the victim be forcibly restrained. Dumpster Diver lets a genius treat their Resources merit as two dots higher when building wonders, provided they have a source of refuse to sift through for parts. Very popular with the Artificers, seen as undignified by Directors and Lemurians. Energy Channeler lets a genius transfer Mania or use Mania to empower or damage technology at range. Yawn. Genius posted:Generator (● to ●●●●●): I'm honestly surprised Genius doesn't encourage the DM to gently caress with these things should a PC take one. Kitbasher negates penalties for kitbashing wonders. No, the game hasn't told us how to build wonders yet, let alone kitbash them. Laboratory is the standard big, complicated merit representing a place of your own. One dot in any category makes it equivalent to a garage lab. Five dots is a supervillain's volcano fortress. Mane... Hoo boy. Forget the standard stuff about geniuses, you are officially not human if you take this merit. You're a thing of Inspiration and Mania, a product of super-science or a seemingly normal resident of a bardo at the most mundane. On the upside, you get Calculus Vampire for free and can spend Mania to heal yourself. On the downside, you don't receive a Mania point every day and you're susceptible to Havoc (which means even shaking hands with a normal person can kill you). Mane comes in three dots: one makes you utterly inhuman-looking, two makes you largely human but with an obviously unnatural feature or two, three makes you look completely normal. Science Hero, yeah Genius went there. Jabir penalties are reduced and you get a bonus to social skills if you have very high Obligation. Technomancer lets a genius freely convert metanormal energy (Glamour, Vitae, etc) into Mania and vice versa. A genius can't hold non-Mania energy at all, but they can immediately discharge that energy for something that requires it. If the Technomancer also has Calculus Vampire, they can drain metanormal energy as well. Tenure is mostly a role-playing merit, but also has a benefit for wonder-making that we'll get into later. Universalist lets a genius use another genius' wonders without penalty. More dots in this merit lets you use higher-dot wonders. Genius posted:Utility Belt (● to ●●●●●): Technomancer can potentially raise a lot of eyebrows if you're trying to crossover Genius with a regular WoD game line, and Mane is extremely problematic due to the Havoc issue. Everything else is fairly run of the mill, and I think systems like Beholden are in other game lines.
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Apr 23, 2015 07:44
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Chris Gonnerman, who made one of the earliest retroclones with Basic Fantasy RPG, recently released Iron Falcon, a retroclone of 1974 OD&D. * Stat generation is 3d6 in order * STR gives a bonus of up to +2 to-hit and +3 damage, and determines encumbrance, and determines the chance to open stuck doors * INT determines your chance of learning a spell from a scroll, how many spells you can know at a time, and your maximum learnable spell level * WIS does nothing specifically besides being the primary stat for Clerics * CON gives a bonus of up to +3 HP per hit die, your chance of being resurrected successfully, and chance of surviving "system shock" effects like stoning, paralysis and the like * DEX gives a bonus of up to +1 for missile attacks, and up to 4 AC * CHA determines how many retainers you may have and their loyalty * Prime Requisite rules are in place: Fighters use STR, Magic-Users use INT, Clerics use WIS and Thieves use DEX to gain a bonus to experience gain * Characters can also trade their secondary stats to gain higher primary stats, usually at a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio * All classes gain 1 hit die per level up to level 9, at which point they just gain flat amounts of HP * Fighters can use every kind of item and use d8 for hit dice * Magic-Users cannot wear armor, can only use daggers for weapons, and use d4 for hit dice. Standard Vancian magic is in place * Clerics can wear all armor, but cannot use bladed weapons. They use d6 for hit dice. Standard Cleric Vancian magic is in place. * Thieves can use any weapon, but cannot wear anything heavier than leather. They use d4 hit dice. They have the Backstab ability to gain a +4 to-hit bonus and double damage when striking an unaware enemy, and old-school percentile rolls for Thief skills are in place: Open Locks, Remove Traps, Pickpocket/Move Silently, Hide in Shadows and Climb Walls * Dwarves can class into Fighter, Thief, Fighter/Thief, or Cleric. Fighter level is capped at level 6-8 depending on STR, Cleric is capped at level 7, Thief has no limit. They notice architectural details of the dungeon, have a to-hit and AC bonus when fighting larger enemies, have infravision and make saving throws as if 4 levels higher * Halflings can class into Fighter or Thief. Fighter level is capped at 4, Thief has no limit. They have a to-hit bonus when using slings and make saving throws as if 4 levels higher * Elves can take all four classes, and any combination of Fighter/Thief/Magic-User, including all three. Fighter level is capped at level 4-5 depending on STR, Magic-User is capped at level 8-9 depending on INT, Cleric is capped at level 6, Thief has no limit. They have a to-hit and damage bonus when using bows and swords, and they have infravision. * Half-Elves can take all four classes, and any combination of the four classes, limited to three. Fighter level is capped at level 6-8 depending on STR, Magic-User is capped at level 6-8 depending on INT, Cleric is capped at level 6, Thief has no limit. * Only non-humans can multi-class, and multi-classing means dividing any exp gained evenly across your classes and using the best feature of each class. * Alignments are Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic * Encumbrance rules are in effect, with characters rated as being able to carry so many coin-equivalents and items being weighed in coin-equivalents. * Weapon damage dice at variable, ranging from d4 daggers to d10 halberds * Initiative is determined by a d6 die roll for the whole side * The game uses descending AC and an attack matrix * Morale rules are in place using 2d6 rolls. Monster statblocks do not have morale adjustments, only that "mindless creatures will fight to the death" * Experience is gained via gold recovered AND killing monsters * There is no system for "skill checks" or generic task resolution beyond the explicit Thief and Fighter skills, as in OD&D. * There's a full bestiary included, as well as random encounter tables for a dungeon, the wilderness, and the city * There's a full treasure/loot section * There are fairly solid hireling/retainer/mercenary rules * There's are explicitly optional sections of the book with rules for Exceptional Strength, to-hit adjustment based on weapon type vs armor, a Paladin sub-class, and Intelligent Swords. * The author has a section at the very end where he explains how to use certain rules or sections of the book to manipulate the gameplay experience: - no Thieves - use some of or all of the optional sections (depending on how much of a "purist" you supposedly are) - how spells are learned by Magic-Users - how to make the game less lethal - changing how stats are rolled - changing whether STR / DEX bonuses apply to Fighters only or to all classes Overall: The increased power/usefulness of the stats does not sit well with me. I'd personally prefer them to be limited to just +1/-1 at the higher/lower ends if this was supposed to be emulating OD&D. I also think that a section on randomly generating and filling out a dungeon is conspicuously missing. Otherwise, my impression of the book is good. It's very readable, with none of the heavy prose or bad organization or outright missing rules from OD&D, but also very few modifications to the game. The last retroclone that I liked this much for being just a clear restatement of old rules was Blueholme Prentice as a rewrite of the Holmes Blue Book, but that's limited to just level 3 as in the original. Obviously if you're going to be playing (OSR) D&D that comes with a lot of baggage and assumptions in and of itself, but if you did want to play it regardless, this is a solid rulebook to use, and free too.
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Apr 23, 2015 09:38
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Libertad! posted:For those of you are unfamiliar with Pathfinder, the game introduced an aspect to 3.X/D20 known as an archetype. Basically its a kit for an existing class meant to be in line with a certain theme, trading out existing features in exchange for new ones. Many borrow from existing classes, such as an Arcane Healer bard archetype being able to channel positive energy and spend bardic music for healing, but some are new features entirely. It's easy being more popular when prestige classes in Pathfinder seem to largely exist for setting flavor and 3.5 backwards compatibility. Personally, I don't use archetypes very often, but they're a good way to keep the flood of new classes to a minimum.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:44
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theironjef posted:It's time for the Afterthought podcast. We briefly try to discuss the role of religion in gaming, but it's mostly just listener questions and total nonsense! A lot of thoughts after this one. Glorantha does an amazing job of setting up a cosmology where you can have two religions that are at war where they have entirely contradictory beliefs but are both correct, or at least as correct as any religion can be in that setting. It's complicated but it's an interesting swerve where the age most of the world's mythology came from didn't adhere to the rules of continuity the present follows, and so often myths from the same faith can vary based on the tellers and yet both effectively be true. Ultimately a lot of the RPG attitude towards religion comes from the fact that the (largely) Christian backlash against D&D meant generally games have handled it with kid gloves or made pantheons that exist more to service character classes or supernatural power than being interesting elements in their own right. An interesting exception was GURPS Fantasy, which while awfully dry and not deeply inspiring by my estimation, has the amazing notion of just using Christianity and Islam, which makes religion instantly more interesting, and honestly has a pretty balanced view of the conflict between the two. (Just ignore what they did with Asian cultures, yikes.) Also, a big advantage of cards is their ability to give different sorts of information than cards. The Fate Deck put out by Evil Hat is a good example, where they include ideas of how to interpret rolls thematically on each card, and even have a little set of secondary symbols with no immediate purpose say for Fate developers to do something with. But even with a basic deck you have suits and face cards and jokers and all sorts of granular elements that dice don't generally have. And lastly, for me a heartbreaker is generally defined by a lot of work put into a design that's, for a lack of a better term, ignorant. Generally this comes from people who have only played one game or a handful of games and decided they've got some cool new ideas, not knowing that things like classless character creation or a robust skill system or a creative stunt mechanic have been done before, and to death. Or, worse, their ideas have failed in the past but this time it'll be different! Or just dorky personal preference stuff like "No Neutral Alignments!"
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Apr 24, 2015 04:50
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I know it's pretty early in this book, but are there any men in this book? I'm seeing a lot of petite-looking girls.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:29
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Alien Rope Burn posted:A lot of thoughts after this one. Actually that's a fairly common weird problem with religion in fantasy gaming, in that every priest of every religion is correct. They have a god that exists and answers prayers. The whole concept of faith tends to be replaced with piety or devotion. I haven't read Glorantha, but I really need to at some point. Also yeah, Heartbreakers are often great examples of just one little difference. To me they're a lot like the part at the beginning of every vampire movie where a grizzled hunter has to tell you which parts of the vampire mythos are in play this round. You know, that "crosses work just fine, course garlic is just bullshit invented by an idiot. They can't cross running water, but they can walk right into your house, obviously" scene. In a good fantasy heartbreaker, it'll often be like "3D6 is the natural and correct way to determine your six stats, but HP is some dumb shenanigans. Rolling high on a D20 for resolution is based on the fever-dreams of a madman, but yeah, elves can't progress beyond level 9 wizards, everyone knows that."
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Apr 24, 2015 05:50
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Religion in RPGs is often handled extremely badly; Glorantha, Ars Magica and a handful of others do it well but most games do it profoundly poorly. (Faith's a bit of an odd duck, though - as you're using it, many real-world religions, some historical and some not, don't have it because they would claim their god does, in fact, demonstrably answer prayers. If you do the prayer right, that is. If they don't, you did it wrong.)
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Apr 24, 2015 05:52
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Mors Rattus posted:Religion in RPGs is often handled extremely badly; Glorantha, Ars Magica and a handful of others do it well but most games do it profoundly poorly. (Faith's a bit of an odd duck, though - as you're using it, many real-world religions, some historical and some not, don't have it because they would claim their god does, in fact, demonstrably answer prayers. If you do the prayer right, that is. If they don't, you did it wrong.) That checks out. Of course it's a world where the gods can and do show up and wander around, and you can go visit their various homes and stuff and report back, but that sort of thing happens in various holy books all the time. I think it's something about the ease of it that feels completely different to me. When a priest casts Goodberry, they get some goodberries, every time.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:57
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Well, yes, but that's to do with D&D magic being the worst.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:58
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Mors Rattus posted:Well, yes, but that's to do with D&D magic being the worst. D&D magic kills everything interesting about magic. D&D religion does the same, for the same reasons. In real world polytheism, there's a strong element of 'you know, the Gods do whatever the gently caress they want' at times. Real Gods are unpredictable as hell! You run into Kali (if I remember right), she asks for a little blood, you're an idiot so you give it to her, and she feels sorry for you and spits it back in and makes you the greatest poet alive. The next poor sap tries that and he gets eaten alive. It's just how things go with Gods. Similarly, for monotheism, sometimes God's just pissed and he's obviously made your invaders the hammer of his wrath, so you're going to have a bad time. Sometimes some rear end in a top hat buried some of the spoil that was supposed to be offered up to God in sacral destruction and so he delivers you into the hands of your enemies. Then he parts an entire sea for you and brings low the greatest kingdom on Earth. You just never know with the guy, just that there's some vague sense of a plan. In D&D, you say "CURE LIGHT WOUNDS!" and it happens like clockwork, and you know why and the Gods are mostly a protection racket run by assholes, nothing more. The lack of mystery is just lethal.
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Apr 24, 2015 06:03
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Night10194 posted:In D&D, you say "CURE LIGHT WOUNDS!" and it happens like clockwork, and you know why and the Gods are mostly a protection racket run by assholes, nothing more. The lack of mystery is just lethal. Effect on gameplay not withstanding, I find that D&D-style magic that has been made "grittier" such as in Crypts and Things where it has a chance of blowing up on you or turning you insane or in FantasyCraft where you have roll against a spellcasting DC is better from an ontological standpoint because it's not 100% reliable all the time. Alternatively, perhaps the spell shouldn't be absolutely reliable when you cast it, either. The fantasy heartbreaker I carry around in my head would reduce spells to "you can make a skill check that you normally couldn't because you're not trained in it, or you can replace the normal stat required for that skill check with your INT"
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Apr 24, 2015 06:10
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Night10194 posted:D&D magic kills everything interesting about magic. D&D religion does the same, for the same reasons. D&D and 99.9% of fantasy RPGs are written by people who love the banal trappings of fantasy, but absolutely loathe all the actual stuff that makes fantasy fantastical. Magic MUST be as rigidly defined as possible! Gods have a definite personality profile with ONE perfectly logical and thematically consistent domain and absolutely the bare minimum of mythology.
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Apr 24, 2015 06:13
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Genius: The Transgression, Wonders Time for a whole lot of crunch. Wonders are a genius' "inventions," products of Inspiration and Mania. Without wonders, a lone genius is little different from a baseline human. She has a longer lifespan, is resistant to supernatural attacks, can screw with technology, and is a major sperg, but nothing really significant. Wonders are what changes that, and building them is a complicated process. Building wonders is akin to making magic items in D&D: fairly simple if all you want is a laser gun, but can get faintly ridiculous if you want something more complicated and you probably do. Hope you like playing an artificer from 3.5E! First, you need Resources equal to the dot rank of the wonder you want to build (per its relevant axiom). Every dot less of Resources incurs a -1 penalty to the dice roll. Yes, making wonders comes down to a dice roll. A genius also needs materials to work with, tools to build with, and time to design and build it - if you simply don't have one of those things, you can't build a wonder and the DM is encouraged to add penalties for things like noisy neighbors, slow internet speed, and a pet cat that gets in the way when it wants attention. However, if you have the Laboratory merit or access to someone else's, you get a +1 to the roll for every dot of Laboratory Equipment (a subfield of the merit I glossed over) the lab has. In a rare display of generosity, a genius is assumed to automatically have all the basic bulk material for the wonder from the Resources merit, whether that means organic sludge for biological wonders or gears for clockwork wonders or what have you. The dice pool for building a wonder is Inspiration + Attribute + Skill. Intelligence is the default Attribute, but when kitbashing Wit is used instead. Which skill is used is mostly down to DM fiat but is given the following guidelines: Genius posted:Academics: Any wonder designed to engage in mind control or sociological manipulation or analysis. Any If multiple skills apply (say, you're using Prostasia to create a tribble that projects a force field when petted), you use the lowest relevant skill - so for the shield tribble, it's whichever of Medicine or Science is lower. Then it's time to figure out how long building it takes. Minimum is one day, but there are steps shorter than that if other modifiers are in play. How long it takes is based on how big the wonder is. N/A. One turn N/A. One minute N/A. One hour 0-5: One day 6-10: One week 11-15: One month 16-20: One year 21-25: One decade 30+ (small warship): 100 years Destroyer or cruiser: 1,000 years Battleship or carrier: 10,000 years City-size: 100,000 years Death Star: 1,000,000 years If a genius works double-time (12 hours a day), the time it takes to build is halved but an Unmada check is forced. Contrariwise, if a genius increases her time taken by one step, she receives a +1 bonus to the roll. Kitbashing wonders has been talked about for a while, but it means hastily throwing a wonder together from whatever's at hand, taking one to three steps less time than normal. Kitbashing uses Wits rather than Intelligence, and inflicts a -2 penalty to the roll for one-step reductions, -4 for two steps, and -6 for three steps. If the genius doesn't have access to a lab or utility belt, she suffers an additional -1 penalty per dot of the wonder (this is where the Dumpster Diver merit comes into play). Kitbashed wonders also still require the basic raw materials to build the wonder appropriate to its size. However, kitbashed wonders are fragile and quickly fall apart, lasting for one day for one-step, one scene for two-step, and turns equal to the genius' Inspiration for three-step. Beyond that, a genius can expend one point of Mania to lengthen the wonder's lifespan for another cycle. Genius posted:Mania and Willpower: Good news for the not terminally maladjusted geniuses: other people can help build your wonders. To briefly skim through things, other geniuses apply Teamwork benefits as normal to the wonder construction roll, every dot of Beholden Ability (another subtable for that merit) adds to the genius' roll, automatons and manes can only contribute a Teamwork die if they have three dots in the relevant skill for the wonder, and a genius can't borrow another's axioms for building something - you want that go-kart with a tesla cannon, you need Skafoi and Katastrofi yourself. Getting help can also make wonders build faster: one step for one extra person, two steps for 2-5, three steps for 6-11, four steps for 12-29, and five steps for 30+. You can also integrate mundane technology into wonders, provided you have the relevant Resources and ability to purchase such equipment - say, adding a coaxial machine gun to that tesla cannon, as long as the mundane technology is only something added to the supernatural core of the wonder. You can't add a coaxial tesla gun to a heavy machine gun. Given the nature of wonders, though, the operations of mundane technology bolted on to wonders suffer a -1 penalty per dot of the axiom used to build the wonder. The one exception to all of this is that Apokalypsi stuff works just fine with the internet, telephones, and the like. Larvae are an additional mechanic that boils down to "Power your machine with the heart of a forsaken child, suffer Obligation transgression and get bonuses." Genius posted:Rolling the Dice: Yes, you're expected to repeatedly fail to build wonders, contributing to the game's stated mood of bitter disappointment. You can't make every brilliant idea a reality, and some are going to [probably literally] blow up in your face when you try. On the upside, Genius now clarifies that you can stop and resume work on a wonder at any time without penalty. Faults are irritating quirks and flaws that crop up in almost every wonder - we'll see what kind of faults are presented as default when we get to axioms. The game encourages faults to be worrisome to the genius but not so much so that the genius doesn't simply refrain for using the wonder. However, if a genius has a higher Inspiration than the wonder's rank, rolls an exceptional success when making it, and binds twice the normal Mania into the thing, then her wonder in question has no fault. In addition, if a wonder ever develops more than five faults, it breaks down entirely and is destroyed. A bunch more rules I won't detail unless someone's interested, concerning damaging, repairing, and modifying wonders. Only interesting bit to building one in the first place is that a destroyed wonder can be salvaged to grant +1 to the roll to make a new wonder of similar design. Then more rules about creating wonders from schematics and established procedures (which grant bonuses to making the specified wonder) and creating said schematics and procedures. Next we'll briefly cover general wonder variables before diving into the axioms and what they can do.
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Apr 24, 2015 07:55
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Wapole Languray posted:D&D and 99.9% of fantasy RPGs are written by people who love the banal trappings of fantasy, but absolutely loathe all the actual stuff that makes fantasy fantastical. Magic MUST be as rigidly defined as possible! Gods have a definite personality profile with ONE perfectly logical and thematically consistent domain and absolutely the bare minimum of mythology. Night10194 posted:D&D magic kills everything interesting about magic. D&D religion does the same, for the same reasons. In real world polytheism, there's a strong element of 'you know, the Gods do whatever the gently caress they want' at times. Real Gods are unpredictable as hell! You run into Kali (if I remember right), she asks for a little blood, you're an idiot so you give it to her, and she feels sorry for you and spits it back in and makes you the greatest poet alive. The next poor sap tries that and he gets eaten alive. It's just how things go with Gods. Similarly, for monotheism, sometimes God's just pissed and he's obviously made your invaders the hammer of his wrath, so you're going to have a bad time. Sometimes some rear end in a top hat buried some of the spoil that was supposed to be offered up to God in sacral destruction and so he delivers you into the hands of your enemies. Then he parts an entire sea for you and brings low the greatest kingdom on Earth. You just never know with the guy, just that there's some vague sense of a plan.  This is the most stupid conceivable answer because in D&D you can literally do that, and the books/DM won't have an answer for you.Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 14:12
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Halloween Jack posted:I've heard D&D magic defended by people saying "Well if you want to know why St. Cuthbert won't give you more spells when you're fighting vampires, go ask him yourself." "One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with St. Cuthbert. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky. In each scene I noticed spell slots in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of spell slots. Other times there were one set of spell slots. This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my life When I was fighting vampires, ghouls, and liches, I could see only one set of spell slots. So I said to St. Cuthbert, "You promised me, St. Cuthbert, That if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life There have only been one set of spell slots in the sand. Why, When I have needed you most, you have not been there for me?" St. Cuthbert replied, "The times when you have seen only one set of spell slots Is.... Then I woke up. St. Cuthbert isn't taking my calls any more.
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Apr 24, 2015 14:33
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Halloween Jack posted:Ironically, the magic in Dying Earth was innovative when it first appeared, but has since become shorthand for "magic has to be extremely dull pseudo-physics." Honestly I think the problem is that if you have Wizards in your game you either go one of two ways: You make it ALL ABOUT Wizards, or you leave Wizards as NPCs. Ars Magica, the White Wolf Mage games, Unknown Armies, etc. all have amazing magic systems that generally avoid a bunch of the issues of D&D style magic such as Wizard Superemacy because they can focus most of their development time towards making a good, fun, interesting methods of translating Magic into rules. It's when you do stuff like D&D that you get issues. Spellcasters are flat out so different from other characters that you basically end up developing two different games, which leads to two different outcomes: D&D 3rd Ed style where Spellcasters are basically in a completely different power-tier than other classes, or 4e D&D where Spellcasters and Non-Magic classes are mechanically identical. Wizard Supremacy obviously causes all sorts of issues in games, but the 4e solution steals a bunch of the... well fun of magic. So, either NOBODY uses magic, which allows it to be kept mysterious enough to be interesting without having to bog it down in rules, or EVERYBODY has magic, using a system deep enough to let magic be evocative. TL,DR: gently caress premade spell-lists and half-assed Magic systems.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:05
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Of course just about anyone ever in this thread is going to reject the phrase "steals the fun of magic" as pure unadulterated unsubstantiated feels. Because it's equally true to just say "4e gave the fun of magic to every class and then every class had fun!"
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Apr 24, 2015 18:13
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Wapole Languray posted:Honestly I think the problem is that if you have Wizards in your game you either go one of two ways: You make it ALL ABOUT Wizards, or you leave Wizards as NPCs. Ars Magica, the White Wolf Mage games, Unknown Armies, etc. all have amazing magic systems that generally avoid a bunch of the issues of D&D style magic such as Wizard Superemacy because they can focus most of their development time towards making a good, fun, interesting methods of translating Magic into rules. It's when you do stuff like D&D that you get issues. Spellcasters are flat out so different from other characters that you basically end up developing two different games, which leads to two different outcomes: D&D 3rd Ed style where Spellcasters are basically in a completely different power-tier than other classes, or 4e D&D where Spellcasters and Non-Magic classes are mechanically identical. Wizard Supremacy obviously causes all sorts of issues in games, but the 4e solution steals a bunch of the... well fun of magic. I disagree. The biggest problem with 3.5 magic is that casters have no theme; each class uses one of two spell lists (with only minor edits for each class), and each of those spell lists cover the spheres of 'can do anything'. So long as mages have specialties like everyone else, mixed parties aren't a problem (see IKRPG, for instance). In those situations, pre-made spell lists are preferable, since they clearly define what that mage may do.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:21
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On a similar note, the "Wizard Supremacy" rules come back into pay when White Wolf Mages end up in crossover games. Mages are on a power level and thematic level so far above everyone else it's not funny. When you're dealing with a guy who, with the right combination of Arcana, could untraceably kill anyone in the world or make the spirits you were designed to fight his bitch without breaking a sweat, things kind of end up centering on them.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:22
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Also you can have pre-made spell lists and still have cool thematic magic by just assuming that, for example, that "Wizard" doesn't mean "Can do anything" Like Reign's lady centaur muscle wizards and fire dancers and stormtongues. Meanwhile non-casters get to focus on esoteric disciplines and martial paths and so on.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:24
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There's also the factor that magic in games like UA, 13th Age, Mage, Dungeon World, and so on isn't an auto-success. In those games casters have chances of failure and/or consequences for screwing up a spell. D&D magic isn't just an "I Win" button, it's an "I Win" button with no downsides or risks.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:41
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Evil Mastermind posted:There's also the factor that magic in games like UA, 13th Age, Mage, Dungeon World, and so on isn't an auto-success. In those games casters have chances of failure and/or consequences for screwing up a spell.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:41
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Zereth posted:Sometimes it's expensive! Did anyone ever actually have casters track somatic components?
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Apr 24, 2015 19:44
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A roommate of mine played 2nd edition, and the way they played it, yeah, a wizard could have half the spells he'd memorized effectively ruined by something like a water trap. This creates balance, but it's not a great way to do it.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:50
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The trick is that's not fun. Either you can solve all problems or you're stuck being an idiot in a soggy robe. One isn't fun for anyone else, and one's not fun for you.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:52
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