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Han Feizi posted:Does anyone know of anywhere around Camp Pendleton where I could learn historical fencing? I have always had a fascination with the rapier but most HEMA around here is devoted to longsword. Your closest club is indeed longsword, which despite the somewhat corny name, is run by a very well respected teacher. There is also an SCA rapier practice in the area with a couple of very good teachers but it's entirely free and volunteer and if you're not planning on dressing up and going to their events it may not be for you. North in LA, there's Kron and Tattershall, the former in Fullerton and the latter in Long Beach. That's the south part of LA so not as bad a drive. Kron is again a primarily longsword group but also does have dedicated rapier practices. Tattershall is more rapier centric but also does some different weapons. Zeitgueist fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 20:50
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SCA is very hit or miss, and usually if there's a competing WMA school nearby people will self-select accordingly, but it's worth going to at least once to see who attends. Some of them just like the clothes and some just put up with the clothes. I'm lucky enough to live near the Davenriche school in norcal, but I went to the local SCA meetups once with zero expectations and found some dedicated people. And, speaking of the festering shithole that is LA, is anyone going to combatcon this year? tirinal fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 21:05
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tirinal posted:SCA is very hit or miss, and usually if there's a competing WMA school nearby people will self-select accordingly, but it's worth going to at least once to see who attends. Some of them just like the clothes and some just put up with the clothes. Kron usually puts in a showing but they do have like 100 people.
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Apr 12, 2015 21:29
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Zeitgueist posted:Your closest club is indeed longsword, which despite the somewhat corny name, is run by a very well respected teacher. There is also an SCA rapier practice in the area with a couple of very good teachers but it's entirely free and volunteer and if you're not planning on dressing up and going to their events it may not be for you. drat, due to my schedule Tattershall is out, and it actually looks like Kron and Chivalry Today are equidistant. I was very put off by Chivalry Today's cheese, but if you say the instructor is very well regarded I may have to consider it! Kron seems like it has a bigger following, and more of a community though.
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Apr 13, 2015 21:06
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Han Feizi posted:drat, due to my schedule Tattershall is out, and it actually looks like Kron and Chivalry Today are equidistant. I was very put off by Chivalry Today's cheese, but if you say the instructor is very well regarded I may have to consider it! Kron seems like it has a bigger following, and more of a community though. Scott(Chivalry Today) is a hella nice guy, just super geeked out about historical stuff. He's very well respected for his teaching and technical knowledge. Kron is a very large group, owing the fact they have an essentially free space on a college campus and some very active leadership/members. Most other groups rent space and charge decent amounts of money because of that. They also run the annual Socal Swordfight HEMA convention in the LA area and have a couple of satellite groups(all north of the OC one, though). Again, they are primarily a longsword group, but they have several dedicated rapier fighters who cross over with other groups in the area as well.
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Apr 13, 2015 21:42
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So, a priority question for reffy types: in foil, if someone establishes a line and moves backwards while keeping their point in line and arm extended (e.g. stepping back or dodging by leaning their torso back), are they ceding priority? Some people have told me no, as the arm remains out and the line remains unbroken, whereas others have said that any backwards motion of the point cedes right of way.
Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 10:27
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Crazy Achmed posted:So, a priority question for reffy types: in foil, if someone establishes a line and moves backwards while keeping their point in line and arm extended (e.g. stepping back or dodging by leaning their torso back), are they ceding priority? Some people have told me no, as the arm remains out and the line remains unbroken, whereas others have said that any backwards motion of the point cedes right of way. A line is a line is a line. It exists irrespective of footwork. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfPyANhtPuM Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 15:43
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Anyone know why two of the Div1 NACs next season are in the DC/VA area and stacked pretty close both location and time-wise to ROCs in the region? Or is this just an artifact of it being the first time I've ever really looked at the NAC schedule? e: vvv That's really cool. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 17:43
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Just gonna borrow this from Axel Pettersson's Facebook: "HEMA in Sweden just got official Swedish Championship status granted by the Swedish Sports Federation. This is a huge milestone for us, our HEMA National Championships will now be recorded in official sports statistics and we will have a much higher profile in media and as an official sport." http://www.budokampsport.se/nyheter/2015/4/rf-har-beviljat-hema-sm-status-uppsala-kan-bli-historisk-vardstad
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Apr 16, 2015 20:48
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Just getting back into longsword after a while training in Fiore a few years back. The local group (which I found because a couple of my neighbors were practicing on their lawn) is mostly interested in Liechtenauer, so I'm still working on getting back up to speed due to the differences in terminology and some of the poor habits I picked up several years ago, but it's great to be getting back into HEMA, especially given how good of a work-out it is. Also, hooray official Sweden HEMA! I know a few guys in Uppsala and Umeå who will be happy to know that they're getting official recognition. Anyone ever work on the Charles XII sabre manual? I found a copy of it a few years back and wondered if it's any good.
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Apr 17, 2015 22:04
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Ravenfood posted:Anyone know why two of the Div1 NACs next season are in the DC/VA area and stacked pretty close both location and time-wise to ROCs in the region? Or is this just an artifact of it being the first time I've ever really looked at the NAC schedule? NAC's and ROC's are done separately and created from different processes. NAC's are completely handled by US Fencing and are based on negotiations with convention centers, usually invovling how much the center will pay US Fencing (seriously). Gone are the days of divisions bidding on hosting a NAC. ROC's, on the other hand, are bidden on by individual clubs/divisions with a set date and venue in mind. After the committee (forget which one) receives the all bid packets for the season, they weigh them out based on the "regions" and grant them accordingly. The artifacts in this are actually just the result of these two systems acting independently of each other. I also feel like ROC's are decided before the NAC schedule is finalized.
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Apr 18, 2015 07:02
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Welcome to turn-of-the-century France https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rElNQuBvFeQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vybUtd4GOnU please enjoy your stay
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Apr 22, 2015 20:19
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HEY GAL posted:Welcome to turn-of-the-century France These are really too fascinating (as well as the dozen or so additional ones to be found on youtube). Definitely helps put into perspective the timidity inherent when fighting with sharps for real. Even low level fencing generally shows more aggressiveness than what is being shown in these videos.
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Apr 22, 2015 21:53
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Hey, a fencing thread! Just as I was starting to think "I wonder if I could start a fencing thread...". How much do we make fun of the fencing.net forums here?
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Apr 22, 2015 23:25
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DandyLion posted:These are really too fascinating (as well as the dozen or so additional ones to be found on youtube). Definitely helps put into perspective the timidity inherent when fighting with sharps for real. Even low level fencing generally shows more aggressiveness than what is being shown in these videos. It's kind of interesting to compare this to WMA sparring as well. Unlike sport fencing, people who do it usually claim it's a martial art, which is true enough, and that it's a recreation of traditional fencing, which is more doubtful. Bouts at my WMA school usually look nothing like this, simply because the consequence of risk is not a punctured lung. There's no way to introduce a best-of scoring format to combat and not warp how it's conducted. Put another way, even if the techniques are technically the same, there's a large difference between using them to get the most points versus to not lose any points.
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Apr 23, 2015 00:17
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tirinal posted:It's kind of interesting to compare this to WMA sparring as well. Unlike sport fencing, people who do it usually claim it's a martial art, which is true enough, and that it's a recreation of traditional fencing, which is more doubtful. It's an issue we deal with constantly. How do you learn to fence "for real" without that inherent risk of real injury? My battodo teacher's teacher hates double hits with a passion. He will punish you very hard if you land a double hit, if only to help spread that fear. Anyone who doesn't care about their own life can kill even an experienced fencer, which is why it's important to at least try and fence as if your life depends on it.
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Apr 23, 2015 02:32
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About half of the timidity probably comes from the fact that the duel is done and everybody has to go home the moment one dude gets a tiny little cut on the arm. If you want to emulate that, just make it a rule that whoever loses a point has to do thirty pushups, and any bout devolves into that tippy-tappy poo poo.
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Apr 23, 2015 02:52
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Siivola posted:About half of the timidity probably comes from the fact that the duel is done and everybody has to go home the moment one dude gets a tiny little cut on the arm. If you want to emulate that, just make it a rule that whoever loses a point has to do thirty pushups, and any bout devolves into that tippy-tappy poo poo. Sure, but most places derive their function (and their funding) from teaching. And in the unlikely event WMA ever becomes a mainstream thing like sport fencing or MMA, you can add entertainment to that. Tippy-tappy poo poo would make for bad teaching in academies (although I'd argue so does any kind of sparring compared to drills, unless you're already extremely good) and bad entertainment at events. There's really no solution, just because the two things are so at odds with each other. Even in the 1600s, nobody learned "fencing." They learned swordplay, and occasionally did fencing. 400 years later, you can revive or relearn swordplay, but you can't reenact fencing without deluding yourself. tirinal fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 04:37
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Siivola posted:About half of the timidity probably comes from the fact that the duel is done and everybody has to go home the moment one dude gets a tiny little cut on the arm. If you want to emulate that, just make it a rule that whoever loses a point has to do thirty pushups, and any bout devolves into that tippy-tappy poo poo. Hence sport fencing. But luckily, sport fencing is really fun and stuff  Also, there's also a chance that those videos come from a period when dueling itself was legal, but killing someone during said duel wasn't. Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 06:29
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dupersaurus posted:Hey, a fencing thread! Just as I was starting to think "I wonder if I could start a fencing thread...". How much do we make fun of the fencing.net forums here? Read the whole thread (seriously, it's 13 pages, I have more to catch up on with either the Political Cartoon or US Pol in D&D). We do surprisingly little about discussion about F.net here, even though it is the Reddit of the fencing world. See the 5 active threads on F.net about the qualification paths to Summer Nationals. Even though they FUCKNG KNOW that Junior Men's Epee was an incomplete 512 after cutoffs. I had to look it up to confirm, but they were 290 motherfuckers that continued to DE's. I know, for a fact, that the final for that event occurred after 1 AM, and the event started at 8 AM. I'm sorry, but am I ranting?
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Apr 23, 2015 07:56
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BirdOfPlay posted:Read the whole thread (seriously, it's 13 pages, I have more to catch up on with either the Political Cartoon or US Pol in D&D). We do surprisingly little about discussion about F.net here, even though it is the Reddit of the fencing world. What do you mean by incomplete 512? What's the deal with the qualification paths? And having to fence into the small hours sounds pretty brutal. Unless drinks are involved, in which case it probably becomes awesome.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:48
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The fencing.net forums, looking to find solutions to non-existent problems since 1999. I'm not dealing with nationals this year, but from what I've heard it's a tangled mess if you're one of those people out there fencing nationally (NACs, ROCs, RYCs, etc). I think one of the coaches at my club ended up making a flow chart to help guide parents through it. Crazy Achmed posted:What do you mean by incomplete 512? There were too many people for a 256-fencer round, but fewer than 512, so there were something like 222 (?) byes in the first round.
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Apr 23, 2015 13:44
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A 50% chance of automatically making it to the second round of DEs sounds fair  Isn't this what poules are for?
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Apr 24, 2015 04:53
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Would it really be the end of the world if they went with the 256 DE bracket and just cut off the bottom end of the fencers? They usually have a cutoff anyway, why not just pick the bracket size that matches the participant number and cutcutcut
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Apr 24, 2015 05:49
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Come to think of it, wouldn't it make more sense to limit the number of entrants to 2^n?
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Apr 24, 2015 11:36
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I have wondered why they cut at 80%, and not to fit the biggest 2^N. Though it would suck to be in an event of 2^N+1, and be the +1 after the cut.Crazy Achmed posted:A 50% chance of automatically making it to the second round of DEs sounds fair This was after the post-poule cut.
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Apr 24, 2015 13:42
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Verisimilidude posted:It's an issue we deal with constantly. How do you learn to fence "for real" without that inherent risk of real injury? This is one of the most critical issues with HEMA that I constantly wrestle with. I recently rediscovered an article I read some years ago that details a couple of fella's foray into a modern semi-sharp saber duel. Its especially insightful in understanding the place fear of bodily harm has in affecting the manner in which we spar. http://boxwrestlefence.com/blog/2012/09/27/from-the-archives-ruminations-on-a-duel/
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Apr 24, 2015 16:14
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DandyLion posted:This is one of the most critical issues with HEMA that I constantly wrestle with. I recently rediscovered an article I read some years ago that details a couple of fella's foray into a modern semi-sharp saber duel. Its especially insightful in understanding the place fear of bodily harm has in affecting the manner in which we spar. This is great, thanks! Here's a fight between Roland Warzecha and Jake Norwood with minimal gear (literally just gym clothes and mensur goggles). You can see how much more out of distance they're staying, and how they're focusing on defense more than offense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WH974doYI8
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Apr 24, 2015 16:27
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Heee, they were showing off a bunch in that video. Not that that's a bad thing really, they're obviously having fun and posing a bit for the camera, the audience, and each other. I wonder how much looking good and puffing in front of your opponent was done for effect back in the day. I'd wager a non-zero amount. In terms of bodily harm, the mesur guys really do cut each other's faces up so if anything they're probably pretty close to the realm of practicing combat with the risk of bodily harm. I think they've got lots of rules though like ONLY hitting the head and the equipment is really specialized. Still crazy though.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:41
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That link about the duel led me to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmS2nSm5n2Q It's funny how they're passing off some unarmed dude doing distance parries (nice ones admittedly) as somehow very impressive.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:21
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El Spamo posted:In terms of bodily harm, the mesur guys really do cut each other's faces up so if anything they're probably pretty close to the realm of practicing combat with the risk of bodily harm. I think they've got lots of rules though like ONLY hitting the head and the equipment is really specialized. Still crazy though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUh5exBJXBU&feature=player_detailpage#t=212
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Apr 24, 2015 19:44
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Huh. Well then.
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Apr 24, 2015 20:07
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I met a German frat brother in a hostel in Erfurt once; his scar was on the back/top of his head and he told me that's where a lot of them aim for now since in the right neighborhoods if you've got one on your face you'll get beat up because people will think you're a Nazi Cool guy. He used the exact same word for "drinking a beer as fast as you can" and "the noise a sword makes when it hits another sword or a person." (Their beer of choice? According to him, Corona--since it has very little taste it's easier to down as fast as possible. They buy them by the flat)
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Apr 24, 2015 20:20
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I don't recall seeing a person younger than 40 with a Schmiß (the scar from the Mensur) in the face in the last 15 years. The whole thing degenerated into a subsub culture with very clear deutschnationale or neonazi connotations. Ostracized is probably too strong, but kinda like being tatooed on the face. You can find those guys studying law or medicine usually. They stay within their bubble.
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Apr 24, 2015 20:59
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This dude said he was a conservative and then I asked him what he thought about immigration into Germany and he said he wanted more of it, putting him, in American terms, somewhere to the left of Rosa Luxemburg
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Apr 24, 2015 22:58
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:That link about the duel led me to this: On another note, mensur is insane.
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Apr 25, 2015 06:19
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Verisimilidude posted:Anyone who doesn't care about their own life can kill even an experienced fencer, which is why it's important to at least try and fence as if your life depends on it. Sutemi is an important and recurring concept in JSA. While often translated as "Throwing ones life away", it''s better translated as "Concentration and effort with all one’s might, even at the risk of death.". Judo has sutemi-waza, which translated as "sacrifice-throws". Fear is considered one of the 4 sickness, (Fear, surprise, doubt, hesitation) and is tied into that. If you are afraid of dying, you will hesitate in attacking freely and thus the risk of being defeated increases. So, the overall philosophy in JSA is often not to fight as if your life depended on it, but to be prepared to give up your life in order to defeat the opponent.
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Apr 26, 2015 11:25
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ImplicitAssembler posted:So, the overall philosophy in JSA is often not to fight as if your life depended on it, but to be prepared to give up your life in order to defeat the opponent. Today we would just conscript everyone and shoot those that run. Far easier, progress in action. JaucheCharly posted:I don't recall seeing a person younger than 40 with a Schmiß (the scar from the Mensur) in the face in the last 15 years. The whole thing degenerated into a subsub culture with very clear deutschnationale or neonazi connotations. Ostracized is probably too strong, but kinda like being tatooed on the face. You can find those guys studying law or medicine usually. They stay within their bubble. I heard that some historic fencing clubs in germany have to regularly distant themselves from that poo poo and throw out a few troublemakes now and then. Nektu fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 11:36
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Verisimilidude posted:It's an issue we deal with constantly. How do you learn to fence "for real" without that inherent risk of real injury? This is, idly, one of the things that I think results from what the Martial Arts thread preaches against as well. Not sparring full contact. Pain is a great teacher, and you will never learn to defend yourself the way you will if failure hurts by playing for points. It's one of the things SCA combat does well, although pretty much everything else about it is nothing like real swordwork. A lovely guard or overextension is punished by getting hit with enough force to let you know you've hosed up and not want to do it again. Until I got around to building better cuisses (and building up better arm strength and speed) I used to come home with zebra-stripe bruises on the outside of my left thigh because my shield side was too slow and wasn't getting down to catch leg shots.
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Apr 26, 2015 12:45
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Nektu posted:Ahh yea, feudalism and its brainwashed warriors that lived to give their lives for their lords. The concept still works. If you are worried about being countered, your attack will often not be as strong, as one done with abandon.
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Apr 26, 2015 13:52
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