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Automaton (biological) + pill form is a pokeball, right?
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Apr 27, 2015 02:04
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The Lone Badger posted:Automaton (biological) + pill form is a pokeball, right? I'm pretty sure you aren't meant to be able to combine pill form with automatons, but RAW sure.
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Apr 27, 2015 02:21
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I was thinking of something a little older.
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Apr 27, 2015 02:43
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Genius: The Transgression, Epikrato Epikrato, the Axiom of Control, has a bad reputation in the Peerage and with good reason. While it's capable of other things, Epikrato's signature ability is mind control, and even its other functions tend to come across as weird and profoundly unscientific - telekinesis, weather control, probability manipulation, and more. Many experts at Epikrato like to further play this up by grafting and internalizing their wonders, granting them what look for all the world to be psychic powers. Unmada and especially Lemurians love it, though, for the same reasons the Peers dislike it. Unmada take "I reject your reality and substitute my own!" as a mission statement, and Epikrato lets them make their reality yours as well. Conventional mind-control Epikrato wonders use Academics, mind control through manipulation of brain chemicals, meat puppetry and the like use Medicine, and Science is for wonders controlling the physical world. There's a bunch of rules for opposing Epikrato, though wonders that simply affect the physical world not in someone else's possession, like a handheld tractor beam, don't involve opposed rolls. Epikrato 1 is simple feats of seeming telekinesis, remotely controlling physical objects to do something they are naturally capable of. A genius can use this to open a door but not rip it off its hinges, for example. Unattended physical objects are all fair game, though trying to seize control of and use a machine requires a relevant skill. Remotely operating someone's laptop to hack into its files requires Computer, for example. If the genius also has an Apokalypsi-1 communicator with access to another machine, E-1 wonders can work through that. Epikrato 2 is tractor beams, telekinesis, and the like, and we get a big table covering how much material an E-2 wonder can move and how fast. We also get some rules about using this to attack people, either by flinging objects at the person or flinging the person at something. However, this is also the tier where taking control of someone's body becomes a possibility, by forcibly moving their body around like a puppet. Alternatively, by yanking on a particular nerve or moving some chemicals around E-2 wonders can force someone into unconsciousness, a berserk rage, or fleeing at top speed. Not providing the specific rules unless anyone's interested. Epikrato 3 is full-on mind control, and is always a Transgression when used on a sentient being. However, it's very difficult to force a mind-controlled subject into self-harm or suicide, even by telling them to stand still while another genius lines up a shot with their death ray, and even more so to force someone into what would normally trigger a Degeneration check by violating their moral principles and character. It can still be done with great difficulty, but fortunately for the victim any ethical violations committed while mind controlled do not trigger Degeneration - that check is merely used as a guideline for what the subject will violently resist doing with everything they have. Other applications of E-3 are draining people of willpower, and the old psychic invisibility trick of making the genius not actually invisible but instead making other people simply not register their presence. Epikrato 4 is large-scale probability control. Hoo boy, though each of these is at least a separate and distinct wonder... Genius posted:Wealth and the Market: We're told that people (and probably vampires) will immediately deduce unnatural involvement in that last one and most likely pay the genius a hostile visit. How they would deduce it's the result of a mad scientist playing with probability and determine which mad scientist it is are questions left to the DM to answer. Weather control also becomes an option at this point, though we're likewise immediately told that any unnatural weather patterns will be noticed, determined to be from an E-4 wonder, and met with an angry and probably lethal response. Finally, in a use of E-4 not immediately pissing off vaguely described people who somehow know how and why strange things happened and who did it, an E-4 wonder can add or subtract dice from a dice pool by twisting the probability of specific discrete events occurring. Epikrato 5 allows for total mind domination, editing and transferring memories, personalities, and consciousness at will. This is almost always a serious Transgression, but can do things like reduce a genius' Inspiration (or any other supernatural's comparable power stat), edit someone's Morality/Obligation/what-have-you, turn someone Beholden or a Beholden normal, edit someone's personality as the genius pleases, swap minds between subjects (willingly or otherwise), completely erase someone's mind, and similar feats. Epikrato variables! Epikrato Ray turns the wonder's effect into a ray that must hit its target rather than an emanation that automatically hits. Rays are more powerful than simple emanations, but have to roll to actually hit. Invisible Effect makes the wonder have no noticeable effect. We're now told that every Epikrato wonder produces some sort of weird light or sound effect unless you take this variable, which adds a penalty to construction. Long Range yeah. Many Minds lets any mind-affecting Epikrato device affect multiple people. The more people it can affect, the steeper the penalty to construction. One-Purpose Manipulator grants a bonus to construction at the price of narrowing what the wonder does or who it can affect, say by making an E-2 wonder only inflict fear or the wonder only affect normal humans. Weather Manipulator is similar and uses the advanced rules for weather control I skipped over. The narrower the focus of what it can do, the bigger the bonus to construction. Well that was short. Sample Epikrato faults! Genius posted:1. The effect ends suddenly if the subject is exposed to a particular, common element, such as wood or silver.
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Apr 27, 2015 04:53
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Tasoth posted:If we're going to talk about fantasy literature that replicates D&D wizards, I'm surprised no one brought up the Malazan novels or the Three Seas novels. Both feature wizards as artillery and both have ways of dealing with it. Malazan magic has always struck me as something that would translate really well into a both mechanically sound and narratively interesting system. The high end of magical power is still present in that setting, but the Malazan world abounds with martial characters at that same ascended level who are by no means outclassed by a fireball or two. Low to mid-level magic doesn't just rock all over mundane solutions since unveiling a warren pretty much flat-out reveals your presence to every mage in the surrounding area, so you're not as likely to replace the rogue with a few knocks when the big bad warlock you're supposed to be sneaking up on can tell you're dicking around with his locked doors from a block away. The fact that even gods in Malazan can get dropped by a crossbow to the temple helps to even out the whole power structure in my mind, too, but you'd need to use a less D&D framework to make that feel right. Maybe FATE? 
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Apr 27, 2015 05:45
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Cythereal posted:I'm pretty sure you aren't meant to be able to combine pill form with automatons, but RAW sure. I'm assuming mechanical automotons in pill form are Capsule Corp robots then?
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Apr 27, 2015 05:48
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Kurieg posted:I'm assuming mechanical automotons in pill form are Capsule Corp robots then? That's up to the genius and the DM. For another fun combination, you could combine an automaton with Internalized and Grafted to turn yourself into a Cybran with an AI symbiont.
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Apr 27, 2015 05:51
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You mention hacking a laptop as an Epikrato 1 effect. Is Epikrato the Axiom a genius would use to make some sort of hacking supercomputer that lets them pull off Watch_Dogs / Live Free or Die Hard levels of absurd machine control?
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Apr 27, 2015 22:50
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Crasical posted:You mention hacking a laptop as an Epikrato 1 effect. Is Epikrato the Axiom a genius would use to make some sort of hacking supercomputer that lets them pull off Watch_Dogs / Live Free or Die Hard levels of absurd machine control? Special Condition: Can only operate so long as something within 10 meters is playing electronic music/Darude's "Sandstorm".
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Apr 27, 2015 23:45
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Just Dan Again posted:Malazan magic has always struck me as something that would translate really well into a both mechanically sound and narratively interesting system. The high end of magical power is still present in that setting, but the Malazan world abounds with martial characters at that same ascended level who are by no means outclassed by a fireball or two. Low to mid-level magic doesn't just rock all over mundane solutions since unveiling a warren pretty much flat-out reveals your presence to every mage in the surrounding area, so you're not as likely to replace the rogue with a few knocks when the big bad warlock you're supposed to be sneaking up on can tell you're dicking around with his locked doors from a block away. IIRC the Malazan books are actually based off of Erikson's college role playing campaign but I don't know what system they actually used to play it.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:07
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I think it was GURPS, actually.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:09
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Crasical posted:You mention hacking a laptop as an Epikrato 1 effect. Is Epikrato the Axiom a genius would use to make some sort of hacking supercomputer that lets them pull off Watch_Dogs / Live Free or Die Hard levels of absurd machine control? If the genius has the relevant Computers skill, and an Apokalypsi wonder hooked up to the Epikrato wonder that can remotely access things, sure. Otherwise, Epikrato takes control of machines through tractor beam type effects. To build a real supercomputer thing that can do that on its own without the genius being a super-hacker herself, she'd probably need Automata 3 or even 4 to create a hacking AI to do it. Epikrato 1 can only allow hacking a laptop if the genius or a wonder is capable of hacking it. What E-1 allows is remote operation of the laptop in question. The A-1 wonder would be needed for an E-1 wonder to digitally access machines and whatnot that the genius can't physically get at.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:22
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Halloween Jack posted:I think it was GURPS, actually. Malazan started as an AD&D campaign back in 1982, switched to GURPS when the world became too idiosyncratic to fit in with AD&D rules, and ended up as freeform RP.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:28
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Halloween Jack posted:I think it was GURPS, actually. It will foul the fields of Gen-Con beyond repair.
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Apr 28, 2015 03:56
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 Space 1889! Did you want an interesting gaslight fantasy space RPG? Or did you want a boring, wordy, pointless, vaguely racist diatribe about the pluck of the 1880's British Empire and aqueduct design? Today, you get both.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:07
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Genius: The Transgression, Exelixi The popular nickname for Exelixi, the Axiom of Restoration, is not entirely accurate. This is the axiom used to build healing machines, yes, but it's capable of much more than that. Fundamentally, Exelixi improves things. Stimulant drugs, strength-amplifying exoskeletons, and even resurrection are all to be found in this axiom. Medical and healing devices require Medicine, resurrection devices require Occult, and devices designed to work on machines require Craft or Computer as appropriate. Wonders designed to work on biological creatures and wonders designed to work on machines are two separate wonders. By default, Exelixi wonders have a range of touch. Exelixi 1 is basic healing and repairs, mending lethal and bashing damage. Nothing fancy, and can't touch aggravated damage. Ex-1 wonders can also cure non-supernatural diseases, with the difficulty increasing based on the the severity of the disease. Curing a cold is simple enough, but curing something like AIDS or most forms of cancer is difficult at this stage. Also an option is an Ex-1 wonder to create a life support system, providing food, water, and air for a number of people determined by the wonder's difficulty rating. If installed in a spaceship, Genius pays a nice bit of attention to detail by specifying that it prevents bone degradation due to long-term exposure to low gravity (or you can use an Epikrato-2 wonder to provide artificial gravity). Exelixi 2 allows wonders that increase the performance of a creature or machine, choosing one or multiple from the following: Genius posted:• +1 bonus per dot of Inspiration when using any mundane object. The duration of this effect is for one scene on a success, or indefinitely at the cost of binding one or more Mania points on an exceptional success. Ex-2 can also be used to create exoskeleton-type wonders, mechanically assisting an individual by providing a bonus to physical attributes or granting physical merits that could conceivably be granted by direct mechanical assistance. Or both, if the genius has enough Inspiration. Exo-rigs like this do not function as armor - that's the Prostasia axiom, though adding an Ex-2 exoskeleton as an integral wonder to a suit of Prostasia armor is a popular choice. Exelixi 3 permits wonders that use some form of stimulant, drug, or other effect to boost any attribute, any physical or mental merit, or the social merits Inspiring or Striking Looks. Exelixi 4 is a major step up in healing technology, allowing Ex-4 wonders to regenerate lost body parts and the like. These wonders can heal aggravated damage, reattach or regenerate lost limbs, and put living creatures into stasis. Or for those of you who don't care a whole lot for Obligation, Ex-4 lets you use the Grafted variable with an exo-rig from Ex-2 to create synthetic limbs to replace lost ones (which may have been lost on the operating table moments before...). These cyborg limbs have all the functionality of regular organic limbs, plus the benefit of the exo-rig. Exelixi 5 is the big tamale: resurrection, life extension, and rejuvenation. All of these are moderately to very terrible ideas with absolutely massive potential to go horribly wrong even by mad science standards and involve serious transgressions. But the option is there, and success, while unlikely, is nevertheless possible... Or for the really terrible ideas, you can try to deliberately create a supernatural being from a corpse, like a vampire or promethean. This is not going to end well for you. Trust me. Exelixi Variables! Autonomous Regenerator means that once the wonder's effect starts, the wonder no longer needs to be attached to the subject. Cannot be combined with Monitored Regeneration, and adds a penalty to construction. Exelixi Ray is just like Epikrato Ray, but now for healing. Flexible Upgrade lets an Ex-3 upgrade wonder choose what bonus it grants to the target rather than being built with a set bonus like normal, but is more difficult to use. Focused Restoration is the standard "restricts what kinds of things it can be used on for a bonus to construction" wonder. Genius advises the DM to not let this be combined with Self Only for a freebie bonus. Focused Mechanical Upgrade combines the above variable with making an Ex-2 upgrade effect specific in nature. By default Ex-2 upgrades (unlike Ex-3) can apply any effect. Greater Effect Only is another post facto bit of info about how healing wonders work, that any healing wonder above Ex-1 can also perform all the healing functions of lower Exelixi ranks (healing bashing damage, curing disease, etc). This variable removes that functionality and only the healing effect from the highest rank used to build the wonder works. So you can have a wonder that heals aggravated damage, but not lethal or bashing. Increased Range adds a penalty to construction but lets a wonder be used beyond touch range. Can't be combined with Exelixi Ray. Monitored Regeneration adds a bonus to construction but a genius with at least four dots in Exelixi or a Beholden of a genius with such must always be attending to the wonder's operation. Sarcophagus halves the Mania and whatnot costs of healing and upgrading people, but only things of smaller size than the wonder can fit inside and the wonder can't be moved under normal circumstances (you can probably fit one in a spaceship or a big rig, but not your car). Self Only adds a bonus to construction but the wonder can only be used on its builder. Exelixi faults! Genius posted:1. The wonder's healing or enhancing effects leave a unique color or texture. Skin will heal this naturally, if
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Apr 28, 2015 06:11
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theironjef posted:
Mostly just the aqueduct design, though. Like, the gaslight fantasy is in there. It's just buried in the encyclopedia entry about average rainfalls and the history of British colonialism.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:20
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Oh hey! Space 1889. I was part of a Larp group, the GM pretty much ripped out the character gen, stole some ideas from it and we did our own thing so I missed out on the Imperialism wankery.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:57
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I know this is from a few pages back, but I felt like I had something to add.Night10194 posted:D&D magic kills everything interesting about magic. D&D religion does the same, for the same reasons. In real world polytheism, there's a strong element of 'you know, the Gods do whatever the gently caress they want' at times. Real Gods are unpredictable as hell! You run into Kali (if I remember right), she asks for a little blood, you're an idiot so you give it to her, and she feels sorry for you and spits it back in and makes you the greatest poet alive. The next poor sap tries that and he gets eaten alive. It's just how things go with Gods. Similarly, for monotheism, sometimes God's just pissed and he's obviously made your invaders the hammer of his wrath, so you're going to have a bad time. Sometimes some rear end in a top hat buried some of the spoil that was supposed to be offered up to God in sacral destruction and so he delivers you into the hands of your enemies. Then he parts an entire sea for you and brings low the greatest kingdom on Earth. You just never know with the guy, just that there's some vague sense of a plan. The issue is that it's really, really hard to replicate the unpredictability of "literary" magic and "mythical" religion without making the game unfun for players. If your god has a 50-50 chance of letting you heal wounds or simply making your head explode... you can't use your drat powers. Not unless we're doing some sort of high-lethality campaign where we just whip out a new, super-simple character in a couple of seconds. Magic that's too "tame" can be dull, but at the same time, players need to be able to actually do things without being utterly at the mercy of the dice. The issue isn't to make mages as prone to whiffing(or backfiring) as martial characters are, it's to give the martial characters reliable powers like the mages. I also noted some hate on giving game magic hard-set, replicable laws and rules... which seemed like a good idea to me. Because nothing's worse, in a story, than magic that can just do whatever the plot demands, turning it into nothing other than a Deus Ex Machina engine. Bieeardo posted:The wording on Permanency in 2E is really awkward. First it lists a short number of spells that can be made permanent on the caster, then mentions the inescapable CON cost... and then mentions spells that can be made permanent on others, or on objects. We always assumed that the CON cost applied to all of them (which is bloody stupid, and which we worked around with rare components), but the manner in which it's written suggests that permanent buffs on the caster are the only things that eat CON. Also, I always liked that it took CON to make any permanent magical effect. It helped make D&D settings more magic-poor and prevented players from being magic item factories. When you had a magic sword, someone had literally stuck part of their own life force and soul into it, it wasn't just Longsword +1 #569 from the Waterdeep Production Line. The whole "rare component" thing also mollifies it, but a hard cap on just how many magical items a mage can make in his lifetime without literally destroying himself works even better. Thesaurasaurus posted:I guess that's an improvement over a la carte but otherwise unrestricted access to reality-breaking superpowers, but I'm not sure it's much of an endorsement that the primary balancing mechanism for spells was the same as that of the Deck of Many Things. It wasn't the only balancing factor, though. As mentioned, by a few levels in, mages' save-or-die spells started becoming very unreliable, with their big damage spells often being saved against for half damage or side effects, while fighters got more and more effective due to a relatively hard cap on AC that they got closer and closer to being able to just smash through with very limited effort and Rogues got the skills to basically be permanently invisible and inaudible until they launched their first attack. Even with relatively free access to which spells they wanted, mages were still pretty limited in pre-3rd editions.
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Apr 28, 2015 09:05
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You know what game did predictable, practical magic pretty interestingly, and that I swear I'm going to get around to reviewing? Ironclaw 1e (Once again, I'm really only fully familiar with the original, never having run 2e). In that, magic requires no inborn gift. You just need to be able to understand the theory, have a little bit of willpower, and know how to read. The latter being the biggest limiter. They mention the invention of the printing press being a big deal partly because now all these ancient magic tomes can be reproduced, more people are becoming literate, the church might lose its monopoly on healing magic, and all of this might upset the normal progress of society just as much as the invention of black powder muskets and the increasing use of cannons. Magic is a metaphor for education and literacy there, and while it isn't as world-shaking as it usually is in fantasy settings, the setting still treats it as quite powerful. Also, it has a similar approach to making (incredibly rare) magic items. A sorcerer has to bind a permanent part of the MP into the item to hold an extra dimensional spirit in the suit of armor or weapon or trinket. They never get it back, using their own willpower as glue to bind the spell together. It is also, though, a system that never assumes nor needs PCs to have access to a magic weapon or armor. You'll be plenty badass with platemail and a well made sword and shield, or a solidly crafted musket or crossbow. A magic weapon would just be icing on the cake. It's interesting to see a 'gritty' low fantasy game where the PCs are pretty much badasses at whatever their profession might be from the word go, but the general theme for PCs is that like the printing press and the gun, they're people who may be of lower birth but are simply too talented for the status quo of society to ignore, drawing them into the intrigues of powerful merchant houses and ancient nobles because they're cool guys who can get poo poo done. E: Wasn't someone else reviewing 2e? Did that get abandoned? Night10194 fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 09:27
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theironjef posted:
 Phlogiston andAether are not the same thing! Aether was a thick substance thought to pervade space and make the transmission of light possible, while Phlogiston was a substance thought to exist in combustible bodies and make fire possible.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:53
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The Vosgian Beast posted:
While your knowledge of fake elements predicted by natural philosophers is commendable, I cite Spelljammer as precedent for phlogiston being a medium that fantasy spaceships fly around in. Granted, it was also highly flammable in that.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:40
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PurpleXVI posted:Also, I always liked that it took CON to make any permanent magical effect. It helped make D&D settings more magic-poor and prevented players from being magic item factories. When you had a magic sword, someone had literally stuck part of their own life force and soul into it, it wasn't just Longsword +1 #569 from the Waterdeep Production Line. The whole "rare component" thing also mollifies it, but a hard cap on just how many magical items a mage can make in his lifetime without literally destroying himself works even better. I just checked again, dork that I am: the CON loss (flat 1-in-20 chance, no dodging or modifiers) is buried in the block for Enchant an Item. That I can see: item enchantment is a pain in the butt before that, with enemy-exploitable riders like 'no other magic items within 30 feet while casting', chances of failure and inescapable GP costs, and there's a 5% of getting burned really badly every time you do it. Considering that stats are generally set in stone in AD&D, and how vital CON is in general, it seems a fair risk. Then you're looking at two spell picks, even assuming you have the INT for eighth level spells, and you're rapidly approaching the end of the advancement tables. Heck, you're on the cusp of silly poo poo like wish and being able to break every magic item within thirty feet, and your enemies probably are too. Being able to recover from that without rendering the party wizard a withered husk is kind of important, given how much stuff at those levels resists mundane damage or bounces spells. Regardless, that does raise a question I've never found a satisfactory answer for: what is the intended magic level for a baseline 1E/2E game? Gygaxian pearl-clutching about Monty Haul campaigns aside, I've never seen anything official. There's mutterings about not massing wizard artillery on one hand, and towers of sorcery on the other. There's an implication that PCs should retire at around 9th level, but both the level scale and bestiary continue from there, increasing in innate potency for caster types. The Realms certainly aren't low-magic, and while Dark Sun is metal poor, people are still enchanting their breaks-on-20 cactus bats. The only really magic-poor settings that I encountered were weird one-shot Conan and Lankhmar books. There may have been occasional opinion pieces about how every plus is precious, but the basic treasure tables had a chance of tossing some seriously potent stuff out at random. And besides: who seriously burns a whole point of CON on a Murylund's Spoon?
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Apr 28, 2015 14:53
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Bieeardo posted:And besides: who seriously burns a whole point of CON on a Murylund's Spoon? I always assumed that every D&D campaign is set post age of wonders, so there was this time before where ancient wizards could knock out spoons and lobsterbots and immovable rods without dying as a result, and the difference between magic and regular items was somewhat less relevant. Of course, I don't think that was ever codified, it was just the only way the magic item prevalence made any sense to me.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:00
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theironjef posted:I always assumed that every D&D campaign is set post age of wonders, so there was this time before where ancient wizards could knock out spoons and lobsterbots and immovable rods without dying as a result, and the difference between magic and regular items was somewhat less relevant. Of course, I don't think that was ever codified, it was just the only way the magic item prevalence made any sense to me. I had fun setting a game during the height of the age of wonders, where factories churned out magic weapons and armor and portal networks made sprawling cityscapes possible. Mechanically, this meant most items were magical, and so got normal stats. The really good stuff, custom-made/bespoke or tricked out with illegal/rare enchantments actually got the +1s and other stats. Now setting it after the collapse means that everyone and their mom has an old magic sword laying around, but those cool custom items from before are now basically artifacts.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:12
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Brief note on the Genius review, in case anyone was wondering how much is left to go: We're more than halfway through, page 215 of 488 but a lot of the remaining pages are filled with sample wonders, NPC stat blocks, and the like that I'll probably skip. There's four more axioms to go through, then a bunch of rules and fluff about various special topics like self-aware wonders and time travel, then mostly fluff about the setting, NPCs, weird creatures associated with Inspiration, an adventure site/city (Seattle, sorry residents), and the like. Anytime someone's curious about details and tables I mention but skip over, feel free to ask and I'll post it.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:19
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theironjef posted:I always assumed that every D&D campaign is set post age of wonders, so there was this time before where ancient wizards could knock out spoons and lobsterbots and immovable rods without dying as a result, and the difference between magic and regular items was somewhat less relevant. Of course, I don't think that was ever codified, it was just the only way the magic item prevalence made any sense to me. I like that. The craziest wizards effed off, the pelgranes went extinct, and someone rejuvenated the Dying Earth.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:20
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There was never an official 'wealth level' calculation for 1E/2E. The official treasure types had pretty low chances of any useful or interesting magic items but published modules certainly had treasures scattered around in easily-missable spots for the non-pixelbitchy. All 'official' standards were these wishy-washy statements about not overpowering a campaign or whatever. Since there was no unified scale of what AC was supposed to be at a particular level, you couldn't just treadmill up at a steady pace. I am not sure the treadmill was an improvement, though it was a logical extension of previous editions actual play. For item rarity, I remember Dragon articles about having an enchanters' guild that no PC could EVER join or penetrate the secrets of which made items more profitably, or the post-age-of-wonders thing, or a general assertion that nearly all items are just accumulated relics of past ages and the preponderance of magic swords despite the inability of casters to use them was their simple durability versus wooden staves with limited charges.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:22
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theironjef posted:I always assumed that every D&D campaign is set post age of wonders, so there was this time before where ancient wizards could knock out spoons and lobsterbots and immovable rods without dying as a result, and the difference between magic and regular items was somewhat less relevant. Of course, I don't think that was ever codified, it was just the only way the magic item prevalence made any sense to me.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:23
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I also like the idea that not all magic items are made by wizards. Some are made just because they were used to to something particularly badass. Like this sword was used to cut the last head off of a legendary hydra, so now it drips with poison. Or this bow was used to shoot the magic staff out of the hands of an evil lich, so now its super-accurate and can counterspell wizards. And a shield that was used by a commander who was kept their troops fighting long after most would be exhausted, so now just being near it heals and inspires people. Eat it, wizards.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:27
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Bieeardo posted:Regardless, that does raise a question I've never found a satisfactory answer for: what is the intended magic level for a baseline 1E/2E game? Gygaxian pearl-clutching about Monty Haul campaigns aside, I've never seen anything official. There's mutterings about not massing wizard artillery on one hand, and towers of sorcery on the other. There's an implication that PCs should retire at around 9th level, but both the level scale and bestiary continue from there, increasing in innate potency for caster types. The Realms certainly aren't low-magic, and while Dark Sun is metal poor, people are still enchanting their breaks-on-20 cactus bats. The only really magic-poor settings that I encountered were weird one-shot Conan and Lankhmar books. There may have been occasional opinion pieces about how every plus is precious, but the basic treasure tables had a chance of tossing some seriously potent stuff out at random. This is just pure conjecture on my part, but between Wizards having their roots as artillery units in Chainmail, the rules for establishing holdings and land ownership on reaching Name level, Chainmail itself, and later BattleSystem, it seems like you were supposed to play D&D in dungeon-crawling, single-character-per-player mode up until 9th level, and then play a mass combat game where the Fighter is instead a whole legion of men lead by the single Fighter you used to play as while the Wizard is a still a single character but with (more abstracted?) powerful magics that'd make them the equivalent of the whole legion. As well, the scope and challenge of the game should shift into kingdom management, world-destroying threats, and other such legendary actions. It's just that people didn't want to stop playing D&D, which is fine and understandable, so instead the writers have to keep making bigger monsters and larger threats for higher levels, which throws the whole thing off kilter if you only ever play as individual dudes, especially when there's this vast gulf of "normal" play between level 9 and BECMI's godhood rules or AD&D 2e's High Level Campaign rules.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:31
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My experience back in the day was that we didn't like playing the high-level armies and castles game because the books barely gave any guidance on how to run that kind of campaign. Oh, the 1E DMG went into exhaustive detail about the costs of building a castle and recruiting and retaining an army ... but there was very little information about what you did with them when you had them.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:43
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Serf posted:I also like the idea that not all magic items are made by wizards. Some are made just because they were used to to something particularly badass. Like this sword was used to cut the last head off of a legendary hydra, so now it drips with poison. Or this bow was used to shoot the magic staff out of the hands of an evil lich, so now its super-accurate and can counterspell wizards. And a shield that was used by a commander who was kept their troops fighting long after most would be exhausted, so now just being near it heals and inspires people. This is the kind of item creation I like, particularly if their legendary qualities can be instilled or awakened by the characters themselves. Nobody's burning CON, or XP, or precious feat slots, and nobody's putting used +1's and +2's out on the market as they grow out of them. Earthdawn, 3.x's ancestral weapon scheme, and 4E's innate bonuses were much more my thing than random drops or paying a wizard to pimp my blade.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:00
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Bieeardo posted:This is the kind of item creation I like, particularly if their legendary qualities can be instilled or awakened by the characters themselves. Nobody's burning CON, or XP, or precious feat slots, and nobody's putting used +1's and +2's out on the market as they grow out of them. Earthdawn, 3.x's ancestral weapon scheme, and 4E's innate bonuses were much more my thing than random drops or paying a wizard to pimp my blade. Eh, I like Eberron's approach where relatively low-level magic is everywhere to the extent that between a third and half of the civilized world's population can use magic to a degree, to the extent that there's an NPC class specifically for the magical artisans and low-end enchanters who create and maintain all the magic items and commonplace magical effects you see throughout the civilized world. However, high-level magic is far more rare and tend to either be powerful relics or significant investments of major political powers to create. +1 sword? Sure, every large town as an enchanter making them. +3 sword? You found that in an old ruin or someone with a great deal of resources paid for its construction. +5 swords are the domain of true artifacts or a major endeavor of a powerful nation, Dragonmarked House, or organization of comparable power, and they are going to treat it as such.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:07
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gradenko_2000 posted:This is just pure conjecture on my part, but between Wizards having their roots as artillery units in Chainmail, the rules for establishing holdings and land ownership on reaching Name level, Chainmail itself, and later BattleSystem, it seems like you were supposed to play D&D in dungeon-crawling, single-character-per-player mode up until 9th level, and then play a mass combat game where the Fighter is instead a whole legion of men lead by the single Fighter you used to play as while the Wizard is a still a single character but with (more abstracted?) powerful magics that'd make them the equivalent of the whole legion. As well, the scope and challenge of the game should shift into kingdom management, world-destroying threats, and other such legendary actions. Wasn't there a 2e supplement that did this? Yeah: http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/purplexvi/birthright/ Which was basically Proto-Reign if I remember correctly. Also, someone who has it should write up Reign.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:11
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The best part of Space: 1889's obsession with Britain is that I'm pretty sure the man on the cover is French.
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Apr 28, 2015 17:42
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theironjef posted:
You said this was from Heliograph Publishing. I swear this was part of Game Developers' Workshop's line, along with Twilight 2000 and Space/Traveller 2300 A.D. (or just known as now as 2300 A.D.). You do know there's a computer game that's really special, since you can custom role an Anarchist Noblewoman armed with a Maxim machinegun in your party. Also, I would play your retrofuture Space 1989. It would probably like a cross between William Gibson's script for Alien 3, as well as his short story stuff like "Red Star, Red Orbit" and "Hinterlands", and Hotline Miami.
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Apr 28, 2015 17:59
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Young Freud posted:You said this was from Heliograph Publishing. I swear this was part of Game Developers' Workshop's line, along with Twilight 2000 and Space/Traveller 2300 A.D. (or just known as now as 2300 A.D.). You do know there's a computer game that's really special, since you can custom role an Anarchist Noblewoman armed with a Maxim machinegun in your party. You are both right! Space 1889 started as GDW game around the same time as Dark Conspiracy, but after GDW went under, Heliograph picked the rights.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:03
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Young Freud posted:You said this was from Heliograph Publishing. I swear this was part of Game Developers' Workshop's line, along with Twilight 2000 and Space/Traveller 2300 A.D. (or just known as now as 2300 A.D.). You do know there's a computer game that's really special, since you can custom role an Anarchist Noblewoman armed with a Maxim machinegun in your party. I picture it as being pretty tongue in cheek late 80s action. Basically that weird Hasselhoff music video making the rounds right now mixed with The Last Starfighter and Silverhawks. Then again, I do love William Gibson, especially if we can fit some of that Villa Straylight stuff from Neuromancer in there.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:13
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unseenlibrarian posted:You are both right! Space 1889 started as GDW game around the same time as Dark Conspiracy, but after GDW went under, Heliograph picked the rights. And as of now the rights are owned by Pinnacle Entertainment, who made it a Savage Worlds setting.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:16
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