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Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."

Unormal posted:

Borderlands 2 is actually the example that leaps to mind when I think about how awful a tree of +1% skill ticks is for leveling in terms of player experience.

This is one thing that WoW eventually got right. The revamped talent system gives you a few meaningful choices rather than a shitton of useless choices in the way Borderlands 2 or older versions of WoW do it.

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alarumklok
Jun 30, 2012

But spending 6 hours smacking bears to get 1% crit feels RIGHT. Also, the roguelike argument is leaking into the steam thread, someone call an exorcist.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


alarumklok posted:

But spending 6 hours smacking bears to get 1% crit feels RIGHT. Also, the roguelike argument is leaking into the steam thread, someone call an exorcist.

You got it backwards, we successfully evicted it from this thread, it can stay there :v:

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames

doctorfrog posted:

Bought.

And... there's a graphical bug where it only does portrait style, and only in landscape mode, so it's like playing through a keyhole. Hope it gets fixed soon, looks like a great little five minute game.

What are you playing on? Works fine on an iPhone 5C.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Bogart posted:

What are you playing on? Works fine on an iPhone 5C.

I see the same bug on my iPad :shrug:

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
poo poo, that sucks. Sorry y'all. Didn't mean to lead you astray.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


alarumklok posted:

But spending 6 hours smacking bears to get 1% crit feels RIGHT. Also, the roguelike argument is leaking into the steam thread, someone call an exorcist.

i killed it with the power of butts

praise the lord

Million Ghosts
Aug 11, 2011

spooooooky

victrix posted:

You got it backwards, we successfully evicted it from this thread, it can stay there :v:

stay safe dungeon dive thread

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

victrix posted:

You got it backwards, we successfully evicted it from this thread, it can stay there :v:

Yeah, maybe we should get a link there in the OP as the place for that discussion :twisted:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Bogart posted:

poo poo, that sucks. Sorry y'all. Didn't mean to lead you astray.

Ehh, it's hardly unplayable, just somewhat unfortunate.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


Anyone know anything about KeeperRL? http://store.steampowered.com/app/329970/

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

victrix posted:

Anyone know anything about KeeperRL? http://store.steampowered.com/app/329970/

It's great but unfinished and also primary gamemode is DF-style fortress mode.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

Man, I like FTL, but some of the events are bullshit.

LOL your pilot just turned hostile and attacked your crew, now you have two crew left for the last two zones.

Get hosed. <:mad:>

Dackel
Sep 11, 2014


Wafflecopper posted:

Man, I like FTL, but some of the events are bullshit.

LOL your pilot just turned hostile and attacked your crew, now you have two crew left for the last two zones.

Get hosed. <:mad:>

Always trust the spider aliens

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Jack Trades posted:

It's great but unfinished and also primary gamemode is DF-style fortress mode.

Also there's a free version that has all the features, just no tiles. So if you're curious you can try that.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Switching everything to longs instead of ints also makes the memory footprint much larger overall. A long has double the size of an int thanks to how this stuff works. An int has 32 bits; a long has 64. It doesn't sound like a massive difference but when you are dealing with large numbers of them (which when it comes to games you always, always, always are) that adds up real fast. From the sounds of things Garrosh can't even be represented with unsigned ints which actually has its own issues when it comes to implementation.

Using two (or more) ints to represent a long (or bigger number) isn't all that hard. You shouldn't need to convert everything to longs if you only need 1 or 2 big numbers in the entire program.

I've done, theoretically, unlimited size integers using bit vectors and a few methods to do operations on those vectors.

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Murgos posted:

shouldn't
theoretically
Two words that have no place hanging out in a production server, especially when you're Blizzard and your stuff has to run on a toaster.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

victrix posted:

Anyone know anything about KeeperRL? http://store.steampowered.com/app/329970/

It's...not there yet.

It has a DK-style setup where you have to set up rooms and stuff to get monsters to show up in your dungeon, but once they're there they don't require upkeep rooms, just things to do. So you don't have to worry about things like food or entertainment, but at the same time they just wander around aimlessly, build gear at random (and never equip it), and/or work out in the training room.

Imagine DK2, only with about ten times as much space to build in but only a third of the room types to build. And none of them are the interesting/fun rooms.

The map consists of an overworld with villages and stuff, but it's not that interesting. It's like one layer of a Gnomoria map.

There's also a lot of stuff you can build that'll gently caress you over. Build too many treasuries, even if they're empty, and thieves will start raiding you every five minutes. Build a beast cage to "summon" animal units, and that raven you get will just fly randomly around the countryside, aggroing everything out there. Oh, and there's always a dragon cave so the dragon can just decide to come over and stomp you into the ground.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

madjackmcmad posted:

Two words that have no place hanging out in a production server, especially when you're Blizzard and your stuff has to run on a toaster.

Eh, the method I stated is explicitly for when you have memory constraints and if you don't need an unlimited size vector constrain it not to be.

If you don't think treating two separate registers (or memory locations) as one number is an appropriate way to do computers I have got some bad news for you.

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Murgos posted:

Eh, the method I stated is explicitly for when you have memory constraints and if you don't need an unlimited size vector constrain it not to be.

If you don't think treating two separate registers (or memory locations) as one number is an appropriate way to do computers I have got some bad news for you.
It's not that I disagree with your ideas, it's just that it's easier and safer for big operations like an MMO to use existing, proven tech to solve a problem rather than do something like fake a 64bit integer. Having the big baddie at the end heal up for a new phase to get around INT_MAX hp was pretty clever, and I rankle when I hear the peanut gallery talk about longlongs and lazy programmers.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Yeah they almost certainly already had a way to add hooks in at certain levels of monster health, and a database column of 32 bit integers. I think it was the right call even if it's not how one would do it if they were implementing it from scratch.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


i dont even know why it would matter. bosses heal up in games all the time, especially between phases. maybe not in wow i dunno i havent played it since bc but in principle it doesnt sound like a big deal

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Awesome! posted:

i dont even know why it would matter. bosses heal up in games all the time, especially between phases. maybe not in wow i dunno i havent played it since bc but in principle it doesnt sound like a big deal
I raided through Garrosh and it felt totally natural, the fact that it was done in part to get around big numbers wasn't apparent at all.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
I mostly just find it entertaining because a) similar solutions have lead to Hilarious Bugs in the past when appropriate safeguards were not in place, and b) it's happening with a 32-bit integer (cap if signed: 2,147,483,648) which just seems like such an egregiously large number in any RPG as to be laughable.

I guess an alternative solution would have been to give all enemies above, say, level 50 a blanket 90% damage reduction and 90% 10% of the hitpoints they would otherwise have according to normal level scaling!

EDIT: vvv oh god dammit, well I'm sure you can tell what I meant to say.

TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 00:58 on May 6, 2015

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I guess an alternative solution would have been to give all enemies above, say, level 50 a blanket 90% damage reduction and 90% of the hitpoints they would otherwise have according to normal level scaling!

That would... make them take a bit longer to kill, that's for sure.

Bouchacha
Feb 7, 2006

URR (everyone's favorite non-existent game) just added procedurally generated faces which pull data from genetics and culture. The goal is that you'll be able to ascertain plenty of background information based on just looking at people's faces (e.g. skin color, hairstyle, piercings, etc).

http://www.ultimaratioregum.co.uk/game/2015/05/02/the-big-reveal/

Farquar
Apr 30, 2003

Bjorn you glad I didn't say banana?

Bouchacha posted:

URR (everyone's favorite non-existent game) just added procedurally generated faces which pull data from genetics and culture. The goal is that you'll be able to ascertain plenty of background information based on just looking at people's faces (e.g. skin color, hairstyle, piercings, etc).


He's doing everything possible to avoid adding any gameplay isn't he?

Jester Mcgee
Mar 28, 2010

A lot of things have happened to me over my life.

Here is my favorite bit of that guy's development plan.

quote:

January 2016

- Implementation of Dark-Souls-esque combat mechanics.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

"Oh, I'll just add Dark Souls-like combat, no big deal. It's not like it took professional game designers 7 years and 6+ games of iterations to get that right or anything. :downs:"

Clever Spambot
Sep 16, 2009

You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...
GONE....
I'm just really wondering what that even means in the context of a roguelike.

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!
Fun Shoe

Clever Spambot posted:

I'm just really wondering what that even means in the context of a roguelike.

"You die a lot"

stiknork
Aug 3, 2006

Clever Spambot posted:

I'm just really wondering what that even means in the context of a roguelike.

One frame passes.
One frame passes.
Monster winds up.
One frame passes.
Monster winds up.
One frame passes.
> Dodge
Your finger starts to move towards the controller.
Monster winds up.
One frame passes.
Your finger is nearly at the controller.
Monster attacks.
You have died.

Bouchacha
Feb 7, 2006

stiknork posted:

One frame passes.
One frame passes.
Monster winds up.
One frame passes.
Monster winds up.
One frame passes.
> Dodge
Your finger starts to move towards the controller.
Monster winds up.
One frame passes.
Your finger is nearly at the controller.
Monster attacks.
You have died.

Well done

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


I'd play it

(once)

Smart Car
Mar 31, 2011

Oddly Crypt of the Necrodancer is the closest I can think of for a roguelike with Dark Souls-ish combat. The trick being that it's mostly about pattern recognition and it's in real time, applying it to a turn-based game seems foolhardy and is probably not very satisfying.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Smart Car posted:

Oddly Crypt of the Necrodancer is the closest I can think of for a roguelike with Dark Souls-ish combat. The trick being that it's mostly about pattern recognition and it's in real time, applying it to a turn-based game seems foolhardy and is probably not very satisfying.

There's probably room for a turn based game with soulslike(lolol) stamina management - I've never tried it but someone put something together here http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=26781.0

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

There's probably room for a turn based game with soulslike(lolol) stamina management - I've never tried it but someone put something together here http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=26781.0

I haven't tried it in a while but when I did the stamina bar lasted for days and only affected your ability to block. Once it does run out it takes forever to refill and you get your rear end destroyed instead of tanking everything forever.

Bouchacha
Feb 7, 2006

Now I'm wondering if a stamina bar would an appropriate proxy-replacement for the food clock in DCSS, in addition to adding some depth to melee combat.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh
Absolutely not, that sounds awful.

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Clever Spambot
Sep 16, 2009

You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...
GONE....
So i just got one shot in caves of qud for the first time, i was in some ruins just outside of the starting town and i rounded a corner when a "glow-weight cultist of agolgut" did what looked like the flaming hands move on me only it hit like 6 times for around 10 damage each and killed me instantly. :(

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