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ElGroucho posted:I need to go tell the network admin that his job is as important (but not more important!!!!!!!) as the guy who makes sure the bananas are stocked on the shelves See how good you do without potassium!!!!
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May 5, 2015 20:13
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metavisual posted:See how good you do without potassium!!!! I do get these leg cramps 
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May 5, 2015 20:14
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Yes my work is literally more valuable than others, which is why they pay me more. Guess what? Some people's work is more valuable than mine. They even pay them more! What a dumb argument.
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May 5, 2015 20:20
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:I mean I guess we can start juxtaposing the incomes of professional athletes and teachers and decrying the injustices of capitalism instead of joking about the weird poo poo IT people deal with if that's what you guys want to do. A lot of IT people tend towards arrogant and selfish conservatism/libertarianism so it's actually a good thing to make sure the kind of stuff Vulture Culture mentioned is brought up and not smugly dismissed.
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May 5, 2015 20:22
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Absolutely, it's definitely more of a "I applied (and you hired me) to be a systems administrator, why am I raking dirt?" sort of situation. e: I have been an IT worker who gets paid less than the shelf stockers and landscapers, also. 12 rats tied together fucked around with this message at 20:32 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 20:28
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Internet Explorer posted:Yes my work is literally more valuable than others, which is why they pay me more. Guess what? Some people's work is more valuable than mine. They even pay them more! It's dumb because equating market costs with social worth is an entirely different issue (unless you think your work is also more valuable than social workers or teachers or other relatively underpaid segments of society). In a broader sense, "I make more than you so my work is more valuable" is a facile argument. It's more valuable in an absolute economic sense for a single worker, but that's not what we're talking about at all, since words like "classism" reinforce the idea of a social stratum in which your income is somehow tied to your worth as a person, which is actually what was meant. Is landscaping less valuable than database administration? Sure, economically. Are landscapers less valuable than DBAs, though?
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May 5, 2015 20:29
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CLAM DOWN posted:A lot of IT people tend towards arrogant and selfish conservatism/libertarianism so it's actually a good thing to make sure the kind of stuff Vulture Culture mentioned is brought up and not smugly dismissed. It has less to do with 'I'm too good for this' and more to do with 'that isn't my job, I wasn't hired for this'.
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May 5, 2015 20:29
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Maybe the IT forum where we gripe about our pay, work, and bosses isn't the best place for goons to avenge the proletariat
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May 5, 2015 20:32
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Pretty much yeah. I had more to add -- I have a lot of problems with certain low pay industries, I was a cook for 7 years and spent a lot of time with illegal immigrants, convicts, or other "undesirable" elements of society working for $<10 an hour because they have no other options but... decided this really wasn't the place for it. poo poo got pretty weird pretty fast in here.
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May 5, 2015 20:34
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I'll put this up top because it's unrelated to the other conversation. I really want to make my Linkedin profile sarcastic in response to all the other profiles I see. Other people say "forward thinking", I'll say "backwards looking". Others say "fast paced, team based environment", I'll say "calm, individual environment", things like that. Only thing keeping me from it is that other people actually think Linkedin matters.Japanese Dating Sim posted:I mean I guess we can start juxtaposing the incomes of professional athletes and teachers and decrying the injustices of capitalism instead of joking about the weird poo poo IT people deal with if that's what you guys want to do.
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May 5, 2015 20:38
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Mrit posted:It has less to do with 'I'm too good for this' and more to do with 'that isn't my job, I wasn't hired for this'.
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May 5, 2015 20:42
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:People who don't understand why professional athletes are paid more than teachers are kinda dumb. You can see a future with MOOC teachers being paid similar amounts.
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May 5, 2015 20:44
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MrMoo posted:You can see a future with MOOC teachers being paid similar amounts.
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May 5, 2015 20:53
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some resources are worth more than others
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May 5, 2015 21:53
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go3 posted:some resources are worth more than others Sickening posted:Take that poo poo to tumbler. 
Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 21:59
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I am econokin, please tag these posts with trigger warnings about economics as they trigger me
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May 5, 2015 22:06
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:I'll put this up top because it's unrelated to the other conversation. I really want to make my Linkedin profile sarcastic in response to all the other profiles I see. Other people say "forward thinking", I'll say "backwards looking". Others say "fast paced, team based environment", I'll say "calm, individual environment", things like that. Only thing keeping me from it is that other people actually think Linkedin matters. This is comedy gold and I might just finally update my profile. How we rephrase "work smarter, not harder"?
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May 5, 2015 22:07
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Tab8715 posted:This is comedy gold and I might just finally update my profile. Tab8715 posted:How we rephrase "work smarter, not harder"?
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May 5, 2015 22:10
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MJP posted:I am econokin, please tag these posts with trigger warnings about economics as they trigger me I am a pacifist Marxist, please mark these posts with trigger warnings, because economics are violence. I know old people and computers are a low hanging fruit, but I just found out that EarthLink still exists. What's next, Juno?
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May 5, 2015 22:11
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Asked for a 53% raise. Didn't get it.
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May 5, 2015 22:11
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Vulture Culture posted:I don't think anyone's arguing what a questionable financial decision it is to pay an engineer's salary to have someone rake instead of giving $35 a day to a neighborhood 10-year-old. I am sure it was their loss. MC Fruit Stripe posted:I'll put this up top because it's unrelated to the other conversation. I really want to make my Linkedin profile sarcastic in response to all the other profiles I see. Other people say "forward thinking", I'll say "backwards looking". Others say "fast paced, team based environment", I'll say "calm, individual environment", things like that. Only thing keeping me from it is that other people actually think Linkedin matters. I am finding less reasons to login to linkedin every month. I basically only ever login to see what the latest job posting that this particularly recruiter. She seems to somehow always have clients that need insane devops positions filled that would give this thread heartburn. I probably need to post a few as they are totally absurd.
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May 5, 2015 22:14
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Sickening posted:I am sure it was their loss. My department is now being called "devops" - renamed from "IT". I spend probably 3 hours a day screaming into a paper bag that devops is not a department it's an idea and if it was a department it certainly wouldn't be the IT department. Also, is your company hiring? I want to work with you based on nothing more than our similar personalities. Bring me in. (Sidebar, can I continue to work from home? Frisco to Dallas every day on the DNT, brutal...)
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May 5, 2015 22:19
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I am a pacifist Marxist, please mark these posts with trigger warnings, because economics are violence.
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May 5, 2015 22:21
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:115k in Hampton is going to grant you a small Earldom. Had the phone interview today and the position is not quite as high as I thought it would be. I'd be working as part of a team of 20 or so people, monitoring and maintaining a virtual environment with about 120 servers across 10 locations. Would be lots of OTJ experience with SANs, fibre channel, updates, installs, etc. Didn't discuss pay, but my gut is telling me they might (and this is just a spitball guess on my part) go as high as $75-80k. I'm still ambivalent about the position, especially when the guy starts going "okay, no enterprise storage experience - that's a setback. No enterprise system updating - that's a setback. No NetApp experience - that's a setback. No..." on and on for a couple minutes. At that point I wanted to tell him that interviewing is a two-way street, and he was doing a drat good job of turning off any interest I had in the position. Of course, the PM is sitting there with me and looks over during this time and mouths "No it's not," and gives me a thumbs-up. After we get off the phone he told me that he thinks I did pretty well and that the guy is somewhat blunt spoken. He also said that I actually have a lot more experience in the vSphere environment than the other 3 candidates they have to interview - their only advantage is that they already live near Langley AFB and two of them have NetApp experience. I tried to end the interview on a positive note and told the guy that I've spent the last 9 years taking on positions of increasing complexity and responsibility, going from helpdesk, to desktop support, to junior systems admin, to Exchange admin, and that I'm looking to take the next step up and be a virtualization admin. I've got a broad range of skills, but more importantly I have the mindset that learning is a life-long occupation. Of course, Mr Sunny Disposition informs me that some of my certs are functionally useless to him, specifically all the VCA certs. I replied back along the lines of "You wanted a listing of all the certs I have. I gave you most of them, only leaving out my teaching certification. I know the VCA certs aren't all that valuable, but when it comes to this position I'd like you to compare the fact that I'm getting ready to take the exam for VCP5 and that I have some VMware certs, versus candidates who don't even have them. Is it better to not have any certs listed, or certs with minimal value that at least indicate I have an interest in the technology?" The PM drat near hugged me after the interviewer thanked me for spending the time to speak with him. As I told my buddy on the phone, coming across as an rear end in a top hat wasn't a check in the plus column for me to accept the position. I like that the position will give me lots of exposure across multiple platforms and technologies, but unless I'm getting compensated by an outrageous amount then I'm not going to subject myself to working for a jackass who might think it's his mission in life to make me miserable - been there, done that (and I vowed I would never let it happen to me again). It's too early to tell if I even made the cut for the position, but it feels like the PM is in my corner and wants me to get the position, plus as I am an alum with the sub-contractor with sterling reviews and comments in my file I've got a leg up over the other three applicants - the company pays very close attention to the project and task leads opinions, and all of mine were 100% positive about me. The only reason I even left them was because they had to trade me away to the prime contractor to move me into my current position - I would have been more than happy to stay with them if I could have. They want someone in the position by Friday, but I've already told them that I'll need 3 weeks to relocate, especially since there's no relocation assistance. I'll already incur a pretty hefty fee for breaking my lease 3 months early. I'm not going to add burning any bridges to go along with it by giving such little notice. poo poo like that has a habit of coming back to bite you in the rear end when you least expect it.
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May 5, 2015 22:34
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Sickening posted:I probably need to post a few as they are totally absurd. You do, but you didn't need me to tell you that.
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May 5, 2015 23:04
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So tomorrow I'll formally be starting as my department's Help Desk Manager. I can't help but feel like this might be a bit of a career dead-end for me if I stay in this role for more than a couple of years, though it's a very nice jump for where I'm at. I'm only two years into IT and while I think my skill set is fairly strong for my experience level, I'm still well aware that there's a ton I don't know. I just don't want to be that eternal middle management dude who shrugs and looks useless when something gets escalated to me, and I don't think this new role is going to give me lots of opportunities to sharpen my technical skills. Lots and lots of ordering of equipment. That said, there should be a fair amount of downtime I can use to study, and the department basically gives us a blank check for any CE stuff we want to do. Japanese Dating Sim fucked around with this message at 23:18 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 23:11
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:So tomorrow I'll formally be starting as my department's Help Desk Manager. I can't help but feel like this might be a bit of a career dead-end for me if I stay in this role for more than a couple of years, though it's a very nice jump for where I'm at. I'm only two years into IT and while I think my skill set is fairly strong for my experience level, I'm still well aware that there's a ton I don't know. Ride the peter principle to company CTO
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May 5, 2015 23:18
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SaltLick posted:Ride the peter principle to company CTO Being overly critical of myself, that might be why I got this job. 
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May 5, 2015 23:21
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evol262 posted:...but it's the "my work is more valuable than that other work" subtext that's weird. That's a stupid argument. Some work is more valuable than other work. That's why some roles have higher salaries or hourly rates than others. I'm not making value judgements on a person when I say that a systems engineer's work is more valuable than someone's who stocks toilet paper in the bathroom.
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May 5, 2015 23:43
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I seeI there's such a thing as rack-mounted strips with ethernet where I can remote in and power-cycle a frozen PoE switch. That's pretty badass. Does anyone use something like that and have a preferred brand/model? Talking about thingies like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0PY-0005-000A0 Edit: ooh, there's vertical mount versions with way more outlets too, might try that and save rack slots. Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 00:19 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 23:57
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flosofl posted:Some work is more valuable than other work. That's why some roles have higher salaries or hourly rates than others. I'm not making value judgements on a person when I say that a systems engineer's work is more valuable than someone's who stocks toilet paper in the bathroom. I hope that one day that person "forgets" to stock the toilet paper in your bathroom and then we'll see who's laughing.
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May 6, 2015 00:01
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CLAM DOWN posted:I hope that one day that person "forgets" to stock the toilet paper in your bathroom and then we'll see who's laughing. The market value of a housekeeper's time is less than a systems admin role, but my company closed a site down and within a week of no housekeeping it became really gross. When you consider that people were taking 30 minute breaks to drive to drive to McDonalds to poo poo somewhere clean, their work was definitely worth more than minimum wage.
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May 6, 2015 00:11
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:The market value of a housekeeper's time is less than a systems admin role, but my company closed a site down and within a week of no housekeeping it became really gross. I think all of this is really a matter of perspective in terms of what you mean by importance. Importance to yourself? Your company? Your industry? The entire set of companies/employees that we call the capitalist society? The human race? I think flosofl means importance in terms of how complicated / difficult / high-level the job is, and that's fine - I don't think anyone's going to argue that janitor is a high-level position in the knowledge worker rat race that only people with specialized training and intelligence can undertake. But your point is also valid that in terms of the company continuing to function effectively the importance of clean bathrooms isn't something to gloss over, because if people are wasting 30 minutes just to drive to Mickey D's, that's significant lost manhours to the company, which goes right to the bottom line. And unless either janitor or sysadmin is working for something like NASA or a research lab, neither of them is very important in terms of advancing our race's abilities/knowledge/position in the Universe, whatever you want to call it. (whoa man that's deep  ) (no it isn't) edit: VVVVVVV jesus loving christ on a loving stick dude VVVVVVVV SyNack Sassimov fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 00:29
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Methanar posted:raking loving dirt  I lied. I didn't have a rake. So instead for 8 hours today I picked up this trash by hand and all the other trash on whats maybe 500 acres. SaltLick posted:It's that catch all bullet point in the job description. I thought about this. Then I realized it didn't excuse anything. quote:mowing the lawn lol Japanese Dating Sim posted:1) Their employer is hilariously overpaying someone (the IT worker) to do yard work and is thus probably not run all that great, or This actually made me feel better, until my back got sore. quote:DateDetailed Forecast I hope it snows so the land is extra miserable so I can finally force myself to go talk to someone. I tried to go and talk to the guy who gave me a personal speech on the first day and made me feel somewhat valued, 3 times, but he wasn't around or in his office for any of them. Methanar fucked around with this message at 00:48 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 00:31
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What the gently caress
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May 6, 2015 00:32
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Zero VGS posted:I seeI there's such a thing as rack-mounted strips with ethernet where I can remote in and power-cycle a frozen PoE switch. That's pretty badass. Haven't had a bad experience with APC switched PDUs.
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May 6, 2015 00:33
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PCjr sidecar posted:Haven't had a bad experience with APC switched PDUs. Yeah, I'm looking into those now. The only thing that gives me pause is that the biggest models they have still only do like 3000 watts, and my PoE switches have the potential to go way over that. Which is why it's extra terrifying they're running from daisy chained dollar store strips right now.
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May 6, 2015 00:44
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Think of it this way: If you're getting paid a sysadmin's salary to pick up trash or whatever you're basically stealing from the company which is actually pretty cool+rebellious. While doing yardwork is very obviously a legitimate case of "not my job" I've noticed that among the IT people I've worked with, the ones I would rather not work with in the future all share a freakish obsession with What Is And Is Not My Job so I can understand why some people might be sensitive.
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May 6, 2015 00:51
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Today, before anyone brought up this topic, my underling (who also reads this thread) tried to tell me that repairing a wheel from an office chair wasn't in his job description (to be fair I bought a tool kit with pliers and spare wheels from Amazon). Cue up my "yeah I was IT in the Navy, it wasn't in my job description to bus tables, unclog toilets with my bare hands, or clean out the female officer's bathroom after their cycles have synchronized and their trash buckets have a mountain of used hygiene products" speech.
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May 6, 2015 00:58
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CLAM DOWN posted:I hope that one day that person "forgets" to stock the toilet paper in your bathroom and then we'll see who's laughing. faulty janitorial resources are a dime a dozen and can be easily replaced
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May 6, 2015 01:04
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