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dj_clawson posted:I guess it speaks to the realism the show is trying to invoke that we're having conversations about this. I saw Age of Ultron yesterday and everyone in it took at least one hit that should have shattered all of their bones and they were all just fine. Sure but that's comparing apples to Norse God Oranges. Matt has heightened senses, in every other respect he's just a really fit, well-trained dude like Hawkeye. Thor is Thor.
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May 7, 2015 22:01
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Alright I liked this show so much I went and bought a (digital) pile of all the classic Frank Miller Daredevil comics to see what the hubub is about. It's weird how this show is all Hells Kitchen Hells Kitchen Kingpin Catholic Catholic Hell's Kitchen when all that stuff actually got layered in really gradually in the comics - Daredevil lived on the Upper East Side, fought gangsters on the Lower East Side, Murdock and Nelson had kind of a national presence (and were "the best lawyers in the country",  ), and the religion only comes in a lot later. And of course Kingpin only became a Daredevil villain long after he was established as not-Sydney-Greenstreet for Spider-Man to fight, so the Fisk origin story in the show is really a neat innovation. Speaking of Sydney Greenstreet, and how film noir these comics get, there's this issue where Daredevil fights Bullseye in a theater playing The Maltese Falcon and two goons sit there and talk about how great the movie is. Pretty on-the-nose, Frank. Born Again is just horrible poo poo happening to Matt over and over. Really captivating stuff, this is basically peak Frank Miller before he lost his mind and I like it a lot. Though I still can't stand the way he writes women. They're all either idiots or whores or both. I guess the show pulled a lot from Man Without Fear? Time for me to find out. What's the best non-Miller stuff I should get my hands on? I hear the last decade or so had some pretty good runs.
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May 7, 2015 22:21
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Omnomnomnivore posted:What's the best non-Miller stuff I should get my hands on? I hear the last decade or so had some pretty good runs. I've been enjoying the current Mark Waid stuff, but it's very, very tonally different from the show. It's brighter and kind of campy, but in a really charming way.
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May 7, 2015 22:24
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Omnomnomnivore posted:What's the best non-Miller stuff I should get my hands on? I hear the last decade or so had some pretty good runs. Bendis then into Brubaker. It's all back to back and I think it's better than the Miller stuff by a large margin. Phylodox posted:I've been enjoying the current Mark Waid stuff, but it's very, very tonally different from the show. It's brighter and kind of campy, but in a really charming way. Well, it was...
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May 7, 2015 22:24
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On a side note, the current Elektra run is pretty good too.
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May 7, 2015 22:27
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Deadpool posted:Well, it was... Did it end, stop being bright, stop being campy, or stop being charming?
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May 7, 2015 22:29
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mikeraskol posted:Sure but that's comparing apples to Norse God Oranges. Matt has heightened senses, in every other respect he's just a really fit, well-trained dude like Hawkeye. Whatever. Tony, Hawkeye, and Natasha don't have any superpowers. Tony should have died in the first movie like a hundred times over. The point is, it's not very realistic, but we take it for granted, and we don't do that with Daredevil even though he's like 20 blocks south of them. Deadpool posted:Bendis then into Brubaker. It's all back to back and I think it's better than the Miller stuff by a large margin. Brubaker's prison plotline is probably the best Daredevil plotline ever in terms of sheer hilarity. I know it's not technically MEANT to be that way, but it is.
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May 7, 2015 22:30
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Omnomnomnivore posted:Speaking of Sydney Greenstreet, and how film noir these comics get, there's this issue where Daredevil fights Bullseye in a theater playing The Maltese Falcon and two goons sit there and talk about how great the movie is. Pretty on-the-nose, Frank. I wonder if that was at all an inspiration for the issue of TMNT where the turtles and foot end up fighting in a theater playing Enter the Dragon.
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May 7, 2015 22:33
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Phylodox posted:Did it end, stop being bright, stop being campy, or stop being charming? Bright and campy.
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May 7, 2015 22:33
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I know this isn't the comics thread but they really dug themselves into a hole with that whole "everyone knows Matt Murdock is Daredevil" thing didn't they?
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May 7, 2015 22:42
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dj_clawson posted:I know this isn't the comics thread but they really dug themselves into a hole with that whole "everyone knows Matt Murdock is Daredevil" thing didn't they? Luckily they just exploded the entire 616 universe.
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May 7, 2015 22:43
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dj_clawson posted:I know this isn't the comics thread but they really dug themselves into a hole with that whole "everyone knows Matt Murdock is Daredevil" thing didn't they? Not really, in fact it's made the books much more enjoyable I think.
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May 7, 2015 22:45
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Deadpool posted:Not really, in fact it's made the books much more enjoyable I think. It has stretched them creatively, and Waid's done a great job with it, but sooner or later they're going to need a reset.
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May 7, 2015 22:49
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dj_clawson posted:It has stretched them creatively, and Waid's done a great job with it, but sooner or later they're going to need a reset. ...enter Mephisto.
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May 7, 2015 23:11
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Foggy and Matt are like brothers, so technically Foggy's mom is like an aunt to him, right...? e: wait no I need sleep
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May 7, 2015 23:22
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Just finished this the other day and caught up on the thread. Really dig the show, love the fight choreography and the fact that Matt actually gets the poo poo kicked out of him all the time. Also really happy with the cast. I thought the build of Fisk's character was a little uneven. At the end I guess is him shedding the 'good samaritan' idea of himself and becoming the Kingpin, but people were already so afraid of him by episode three they were impaling their own faces on spikes because they accidentally said his name. I guess I'm just not sure what whatever transformation occurred is supposed to change about how he operates, since it sounds like it was already pretty brutal.
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May 8, 2015 00:30
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Everyone but Fisk knows he's a monster. His character arc is his realization and, with the help of Vanessa, acceptance of himself.
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May 8, 2015 01:12
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Drifter posted:...enter Mephisto. I'd love for Mephisto to try and find a relationship of Matt's worthy of an identity trade. Your pure love is worth, oh wait, when did you guys break up? Alternatively Matt tricks Mephisto into thinking he can see and trades his sight for everyone knowing he's Daredevil.
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May 8, 2015 01:20
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Hobo Clown posted:I guess I'm just not sure what whatever transformation occurred is supposed to change about how he operates, since it sounds like it was already pretty brutal. I would imagine it's less about how he operates and more about what his goals are and how he goes about pursuing them. In the first season he was under the illusion that what he really wanted to do was reform Hell's Kitchen and make it something beautiful under a guise of benevolence, even to himself. He shattered that illusion though and what he really wanted was to burn Hell's Kitchen to the ground because he didn't feel anyone there deserved happiness or good things. He'll be pursuing criminal interests for their own purpose, rather than under a veil of good will most likely.
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May 8, 2015 01:25
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I don't think it's really that simple. It sort of undercuts the parallels between Fisk and Matt if Fisk didn't really wholeheartedly want to help Hell's Kitchen. The major difference between them is that Fisk gives in where Matt does not. Fisk eventually goes "gently caress this, it isn't worth it, you all hosed me and I'm going to do what makes me happy" while Matt doesn't. Fisk breaks and Matt comes incredibly close to doing so when he goes to murder Fisk but doesn't. Both Fisk and Matt struggled with the fact that their altruistic goal conflicted with the devil inside of them. Matt (while not perfect) was able to avoid succumbing to it. Fisk wasn't. The fact that Fisk was murdering from the start is unimportant because Fisk wasn't dealing with catholic guilt. He was dealing with his fear of becoming his father, and so that struggled colored his actions. Fisk killing people isn't the failure it is for Matt because they're not approaching it from the same direction, but they have the same core conflict none the less. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 01:27
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Elden Henson did an interview with EJ Scott, the world's worst podcaster. Yes, he's going blind, it's sad (EJ, not Elden), but drat, way to ask a lot of deeply personal, borderline inappropriate questions. On the other hand, Elden's clearly more happy talking about it than Daredevil. http://www.ejscott.com/ej-podcast-069-with-elden-henson/ dj_clawson fucked around with this message at 07:39 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 07:35
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Hobo Clown posted:Just finished this the other day and caught up on the thread. Really dig the show, love the fight choreography and the fact that Matt actually gets the poo poo kicked out of him all the time. Also really happy with the cast. I think all are in agreement we want him to get the poo poo kicked out of him even more next season; the second episode Old Boy esque fight was the best fight in a season of great fights. The momentum, the fact people are winded and stumbling and taking breaks.. it works wonderfully with the show. I want to see more of it, even if Daredevil does less than those around him.
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May 8, 2015 10:27
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zoux posted:Luckily they just exploded the entire 616 universe. Again?
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May 8, 2015 15:07
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dj_clawson posted:It has stretched them creatively, and Waid's done a great job with it, but sooner or later they're going to need a reset. Its been out there for 14 years and its still going strong.
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May 8, 2015 15:16
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pentyne posted:Again? Yup. Rehashing Secret Wars and Civil War in an attempt to get more movie fans reading the comics.
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May 8, 2015 15:40
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Kheldarn posted:Yup. Rehashing Secret Wars and Civil War in an attempt to get more movie fans reading the comics. Mate you don't know what you're talking about.
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May 8, 2015 16:10
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dj_clawson posted:Elden Henson did an interview with EJ Scott, the world's worst podcaster. Yes, he's going blind, it's sad (EJ, not Elden), but drat, way to ask a lot of deeply personal, borderline inappropriate questions. On the other hand, Elden's clearly more happy talking about it than Daredevil. Holy gently caress. Just looking at the typed summary, they go into post partum depression and marital problems. What kind of loving interview does this guy do? Also, "and uh...ummm...."
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May 8, 2015 16:19
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notthegoatseguy posted:Holy gently caress. Just looking at the typed summary, they go into post partum depression and marital problems. What kind of loving interview does this guy do? It did give me a whole new level of appreciation for Elden for making Foggy look awake and aware while saying his lines, because apparently he did them all on two hours of sleep while his wife was trying to kill his baby.
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May 8, 2015 18:44
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Ok I'm really getting tired of the trope of "bad guys get their comeuppance in a montage set to Nessun Dorma". So overdone.
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May 8, 2015 21:42
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Ok I'm really getting tired of the trope of "bad guys get their comeuppance in a montage set to Nessun Dorma". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N4wMoqMzbw To be fair, I think Nessun Dorma has only been used in a comeuppance montage once before. On the other hand once is enough and it's so loving overused in general. Hannibal does great with classical music scenes because they use songs that most people haven't heard, it might help Daredevil if they tried songs people haven't already heard a million times already too. Even the Wilson Fisk daily routine. It was a great series of montages that would've been even better if they picked a better, lesser known song. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 22:06 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 21:54
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I kinda figured this would be the case but Rosario Dawson is back for season 2 as well as possibly the other series. So she's basically gonna be Night Nurse.
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May 8, 2015 22:53
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zoux posted:I kinda figured this would be the case but Rosario Dawson is back for season 2 as well as possibly the other series. So she's basically gonna be Night Nurse. Good. I was disappointed she kinda dropped off after the earlier parts of the season.
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May 8, 2015 23:06
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I liked the Nessun Dorma sequence because it was immediately followed by Fisk no-selling it.
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May 8, 2015 23:20
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Regy Rusty posted:Good. I was disappointed she kinda dropped off after the earlier parts of the season. She was only available for 5 episodes, or something like that. That's why she doesn't appear in Episode 10.
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May 8, 2015 23:28
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notthegoatseguy posted:Holy gently caress. Just looking at the typed summary, they go into post partum depression and marital problems. What kind of loving interview does this guy do? I think you mean post pardem depression, the lesser known silent killer.
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May 8, 2015 23:53
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tsob posted:The old lady was more than likely the head of a clan of mystical ninja from another dimension Yeah, I called it after the first few times I saw her that she was Crane Mother, the ruler of Ku'n Zi. Which means she almost certainly will be in Iron Fist if I'm right.
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May 9, 2015 14:24
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ImpAtom posted:Both Fisk and Matt struggled with the fact that their altruistic goal conflicted with the devil inside of them. Matt (while not perfect) was able to avoid succumbing to it. Fisk wasn't. The fact that Fisk was murdering from the start is unimportant because Fisk wasn't dealing with catholic guilt. He was dealing with his fear of becoming his father, and so that struggled colored his actions. Fisk killing people isn't the failure it is for Matt because they're not approaching it from the same direction, but they have the same core conflict none the less. Fisk having people killed isn't a failure on his part (by his standards). poo poo like he did with the Russian where he just loses it and beats the poo poo out of him over a trivial embarrassment? That's a failure, because that's him being his dad. People complain a lot about how "goony" Fisk is in his dealings with the other crime lords. While shame is a huge part of his character, I don't think that's what's going on with his mannerisms and speech for the most part. At least, not entirely. I think that he's just constantly restraining himself and very carefully considering his words, because he can turn into a hosed up violent gorilla at any time if he lets himself go. So he can't afford misunderstandings or mistakes. He has to communicate what he needs the first time, and in the way most likely way to get it to him, or he starts getting irrational, and he knows it. That said he managed to turn his gently caress up with the Russian into a plus pretty quickly. Guy is quick on his feet.
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May 9, 2015 19:40
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Burning_Monk posted:That is when Stick left. He probably did keep up training but he wasn't learning anything new. He explicitly admits in Nelson v Murdock that he's kept up training this entire time, believing he'd one day have/need/be able to use it. Speculation on what he may or may not have learned in that time is just speculation.
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May 9, 2015 23:45
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The Sharmat posted:Fisk having people killed isn't a failure on his part (by his standards). poo poo like he did with the Russian where he just loses it and beats the poo poo out of him over a trivial embarrassment? That's a failure, because that's him being his dad. Yeah. I think that is what is most interesting about Fisk. Fisk is a violent person. He is an incredibly violent person. His slow stilted words and his genuine uncomfortable atmosphere are a side effect of him restraining that, something they show early on. Fisk isn't subdued because he is cowed easily or scared. He's subdued because he is about three seconds away from brutally murdering whoever has offended him at any given chance. The reason people are loving terrified of him is because they've seen that or been privy to it. I think a lot of people expected him to be this powerful unstoppable monster like the comic Kingpin is but I think what the show did works for him better. Yeah, he ends up Dark Mirroring Matt, and that's a bit overdone, but it is really really necessary for Daredevil to have someone contrasting Matt in that direction.
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May 10, 2015 00:14
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Dark Mirroring is at least as overdone as Do Not Kill rules. The difference is, Daredevil did them both unusually well so it's ok.
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May 10, 2015 01:04
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