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The Sharmat posted:Dark Mirroring is at least as overdone as Do Not Kill rules. The difference is, Daredevil did them both unusually well so it's ok. I was gonna say the thing. I didn't find the dark mirroring overdone in the slightest.
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May 10, 2015 01:40
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BiggerBoat posted:I was gonna say the thing. I didn't find the dark mirroring overdone in the slightest. I think it's because, while Matt and Fisk are the product of similar circumstances, they have always been fundamentally different people. They have a lot of similarities that are relevant to their adult lives, but they are both of a different nature and a different upbringing. The similarities are apparent to us, the viewer, and to Fisk, because Fisk has a twisted world view. Matt doesn't buy it because he didn't get to see Fisk's flashbacks. It's funny how we get to see every character's response to learning that Fisk killed his dad, and they are all basically "Fisk is a horrible monster! Look at what he did when he was a kid, he's always been evil!".
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May 10, 2015 02:24
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Snak posted:I think it's because, while Matt and Fisk are the product of similar circumstances, they have always been fundamentally different people. They have a lot of similarities that are relevant to their adult lives, but they are both of a different nature and a different upbringing. The similarities are apparent to us, the viewer, and to Fisk, because Fisk has a twisted world view. Matt doesn't buy it because he didn't get to see Fisk's flashbacks. It's funny how we get to see every character's response to learning that Fisk killed his dad, and they are all basically "Fisk is a horrible monster! Look at what he did when he was a kid, he's always been evil!". I thought Ben was like, "Um, hmmm, we may be in over our heads with what's really going on in this story" and then Karen just bothered him about it until he was dead. LITERALLY DEAD KAREN. 
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May 10, 2015 02:27
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Ben Urich was too good for this world.
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May 10, 2015 03:06
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Finished watching this a few days ago and Jesus did they do a phenomenal job.  I've been mentioning it to my wife an increasing number of times every day since in an effort to finally get her sit down and watch it. We just saw Avengers 2 tonight and it really is an amazing contrast between the street level Marvel universe to the Big drat Deal one in the movies.I didn't have very high hopes for it at first. I remember some run where Matt Murdoch/Daredevil's life is completely in shambles and he systematically tears Kingpin's entire life apart a tiny piece at a time. I read that and thought it was pretty awesome but the character never seemed all that interesting otherwise. Back when I use to collect comics he struck me as a sort of Discount Spiderman.  "Oh no, the bank robbers plans have turned south, and now they've taken us hostage!: "Don't worry, Daredevil's coming to rescue us. "What, not Spiderman?" "Nah, he's busy. Some nemesis or another." "So what's Daredevil got?" " He's got super senses like Spiderman. Mostly." "Mostly?" "Well, he's blind. Also no super strength." "Yeesh. Anything else?" "Well, he's also a lawyer." "Any good?" "Not really." "Man, gently caress that guy." "I can hear you out here you assholes!"
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May 10, 2015 05:16
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Snak posted:I think it's because, while Matt and Fisk are the product of similar circumstances, they have always been fundamentally different people. They have a lot of similarities that are relevant to their adult lives, but they are both of a different nature and a different upbringing. The similarities are apparent to us, the viewer, and to Fisk, because Fisk has a twisted world view. Matt doesn't buy it because he didn't get to see Fisk's flashbacks. It's funny how we get to see every character's response to learning that Fisk killed his dad, and they are all basically "Fisk is a horrible monster! Look at what he did when he was a kid, he's always been evil!". Somehow, I don't know what I did, I skipped the flashback episode on Netflix's continue option. Since it was mostly a flashback, there were only a few things that didn't make sense to me in the following episode. But the main point I was bringing up is I saw the episode where they discovered he killed his father first, and then I saw the flashback as to when he actually did it. While the stuff unrelated to that got a little out of sync, I honestly am glad I watched it that way, because it really did make the reveal better: Because I totally bought the "Holy poo poo, Fisk killed his father with a hammer? No wonder he's a hosed up psycho...." and then I saw the why and how, and it was actually kind of an awesome twist. I almost wonder if they should have structured it like that on purpose. ImpAtom posted:Yeah. I think that is what is most interesting about Fisk. The funniest thing in the whole show is how the character, out of everyone, who was badass enough to take both Daredevil AND the Kingpin off their feet (at least briefly) was loving Leeland. Made all the better by the comedic "I'm going to have to get my stun gun!" line. It sounded like such a bad joke at first. He may have died, drat it, but he died with more successful attacks on arguably the two most important characters of the show which is more than 99% of the other goons managed. Omnomnomnivore posted:this is basically peak Frank Miller before he lost his mind and I like it a lot I hate how he lost his mind in such a lovely, horrible way to the fact it's hard to even bring up some really awesome stuff he did once. It'd be like talking about Terminator if James Cameron turned out to be a Klan Nazi, instead of just getting obsessed with deep sea diving. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 06:58 on May 10, 2015 |
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May 10, 2015 06:49
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dj_clawson posted:Since Nobu attacked him, and he defended, manslaughter is probably the charge that would stick, if he couldn't argue self-defense, which he easily could. Just saying that if a ninja ever kills an intruder with a chained sword-blade and claims stand your ground IRL, it will be the single greatest stand your ground case ever made.
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May 10, 2015 07:02
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Blazing Ownager posted:I hate how he lost his mind in such a lovely, horrible way to the fact it's hard to even bring up some really awesome stuff he did once. It'd be like talking about Terminator if James Cameron turned out to be a Klan Nazi, instead of just getting obsessed with deep sea diving. Learn to separate the author from their work. It's not like the Cosby Show isn't funny
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May 10, 2015 15:00
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Terror Sweat posted:Learn to separate the author from their work. It's not like the Cosby Show isn't funny Weelll...
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May 10, 2015 15:55
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Blazing Ownager posted:I hate how he lost his mind in such a lovely, horrible way to the fact it's hard to even bring up some really awesome stuff he did once. It'd be like talking about Terminator if James Cameron turned out to be a Klan Nazi, instead of just getting obsessed with deep sea diving. Man Without Fear from the mid-90s already feels like a parody of his earlier stuff (no adaptation will ever have young Matt accidentally kill a prostitute). I also really don't like Romita Jr.'s art.
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May 10, 2015 16:27
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Omnomnomnivore posted:Man Without Fear from the mid-90s already feels like a parody of his earlier stuff (no adaptation will ever have young Matt accidentally kill a prostitute). I also really don't like Romita Jr.'s art. Re that spoiler: for fucks sake Miller. arr we sure Frank has not done that himself? Repeatedly?
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May 10, 2015 16:56
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Omnomnomnivore posted:Man Without Fear from the mid-90s already feels like a parody of his earlier stuff (no adaptation will ever have young Matt accidentally kill a prostitute). I also really don't like Romita Jr.'s art. It turns out that she did not die and was infact Typhoid Mary!
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May 10, 2015 17:52
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Man Frank Miller has issues.
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May 10, 2015 19:59
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bunnyofdoom posted:Man Frank Miller has issues. Well yeah, he has been writing them for years.
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May 10, 2015 20:07
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What are everyone's thoughts about crossing this Netflix style stuff into the Avengers, Downey style, Thor universe? Me? I'd rather they'd keep it separate and mostly ignore the outer space/cosmic things. Keep it street level and have DD, Iron Fist, Cage, Punisher relatively contained in their own universe or "book". Same reason I don't think Batman and Superman work well together. The ninja mystical poo poo is about as far out I'm willing to go with a series like this and still maintain suspension of disbelief. Having Iron Man, Hulk or Thor show up would really gently caress up the tone and style they've established. Widow or Hawkeye? OK. Dr. Strange...maybe....but I like it largely as a noir street level crime drama. I'd hate to see it hosed up just for the sake of having a single universe. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 20:15 on May 10, 2015 |
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May 10, 2015 20:13
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I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Matt Murdock show up briefly in Civil War, but otherwise I don't think it'll happen.
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May 10, 2015 20:17
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Well probably there won't really by much crossover with "A List" heroes, but *Defenders* is happening, which is going to be a blind guy acrobat, a man who is bulletproof, a woman who might be able to fly, and a guy who uses his chi for magic. So, while Iron Fist is basically my poo poo, we are going to have Jessica Jones around, who will probably be the most "fantastical" character in this immediate setting. Although there's no telling if she'll really fly in her Netflix incarnation. Which actually reminds me, with Steel Serpent (complete with logo) being a brand of heroin in the MNU (can we call it this?), does this mean there will be no "real" Davos/Steel Serpent in the Iron Fist series? I mean, they could just fudge it and be like, yeah, Crane Mother was distributing Davos's heroin because she adopted him, and he put his logo on it because he has no shame, and people called it Steel Serpent because it has Davos's logo on it. But it's also possible they aren't going to do Davos, and they want to use just Crane Mother since they've already kind of set her up as a villain. I don't really see Hydra making an appearance, since they are kind of Agents of SHIELD's thing (or so I hear, haven't watched past the 4th episode of that poo poo). Anyone have wild speculation on what they might do for Iron Fist? I'm really looking forward to seeing how they do each of these netflix shows and have them interconnected. I mean, we don't know how much overlap there will be, except that they will eventually team of in *Defenders*, and that Luke Cage will be in A.K.A Jessica Jones before we see his series. Given that Luke Cage and Danny Rand are pretty close, it would make sense if Danny Rand had an appearance or two in *Luke Cage*, but who knows. I think it would be awesome if Luke or Jessica needed a lawyer and Matt Murdock showed up (but not Daredevil).
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May 10, 2015 20:30
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I'm pretty sure they'll be kept pretty separate like how they already are in the comics. They don't call Daredevil and Luke Cage up when an alien fleet invades. Those guys sometimes have to pitch in, but they're not teaming up with Thor.
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May 10, 2015 20:31
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BiggerBoat posted:What are everyone's thoughts about crossing this Netflix style stuff into the Avengers, Downey style, Thor universe? Me? I'd rather they'd keep it separate and mostly ignore the outer space/cosmic things. As in, no sci-fi cosmic Netflix show? If so, then I'm going to have to disagree. Iron-Fist is the currently scheduled show I'm most looking forward too and hoping that goes full on mystical ninja, seven dimensional cities silliness and if I can get a cosmic Netflix show then I'm even more on board for that, because I love me some sci-fi comics stuff. Mind you, I don't really care about whether they're interconnected or not. I'd assume they're all in the same universe so long as Netflix/Marvel are making them, but that doesn't mean they have to mix the shows and have cameos between Daredevil and the Guardians cartoon, which I'm assuming Netflix will be producing or Starjammers or whatever. Snak posted:Which actually reminds me, with Steel Serpent (complete with logo) being a brand of heroin in the MNU (can we call it this?), does this mean there will be no "real" Davos/Steel Serpent in the Iron Fist series? I mean, they could just fudge it and be like, yeah, Crane Mother was distributing Davos's heroin because she adopted him, and he put his logo on it because he has no shame, and people called it Steel Serpent because it has Davos's logo on it. But it's also possible they aren't going to do Davos, and they want to use just Crane Mother since they've already kind of set her up as a villain. I don't really see Hydra making an appearance, since they are kind of Agents of SHIELD's thing (or so I hear, haven't watched past the 4th episode of that poo poo). Anyone have wild speculation on what they might do for Iron Fist? The Steel Serpent isn't Davos, so much as Davos is a Steel Serpent. It's just the name of K'un-zi's champion. I would assume Crane Mother used the name as a personal joke or whatever in-uiverse. Alternately, she used the name because Davos isn't in the picture yet, she was looking for a champion and the heroin was her method to do so. Out of show it's obviously it's just a nod to Iron-Fist to get some anticipation built. And I have no doubt that Iron-Fist is going to use Davos, because Davos is his biggest rogue as far as I know. It'd be like questioning whether there'd be a Spider-man show without Green Goblin or whatever. He's also one of the big parts of the Brubaker/Fraction Immortal Iron-Fist run, which Crane Mother was also introduced in, so if she's in, he almost certainly is just based on that alone.
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May 10, 2015 20:52
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Hydra won't be in any of these shows not just because they don't fit the tone, but because by this point in the MCU Hydra is utterly devastated and will likely take years to reconstitute into a threat.
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May 10, 2015 21:07
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Snak posted:Which actually reminds me, with Steel Serpent (complete with logo) being a brand of heroin in the MNU (can we call it this?), does this mean there will be no "real" Davos/Steel Serpent in the Iron Fist series? I mean, they could just fudge it and be like, yeah, Crane Mother was distributing Davos's heroin because she adopted him, and he put his logo on it because he has no shame, and people called it Steel Serpent because it has Davos's logo on it. But it's also possible they aren't going to do Davos, and they want to use just Crane Mother since they've already kind of set her up as a villain. I don't really see Hydra making an appearance, since they are kind of Agents of SHIELD's thing (or so I hear, haven't watched past the 4th episode of that poo poo). Anyone have wild speculation on what they might do for Iron Fist? Davos doesn't control the Steel Serpent trademark, which pisses him off almost as much as not being Iron Fist. Hopefully Iron Fist focuses on the tournament, though it depends on how much time they spend setting up his training and such. They could do some cool Marco Polo style stuff, hopefully at least use those sets. Really hope Orson Randall shows up too. If I had to guess, it'll be Danny becomes Iron Fist, pisses off Davos, does the Iron Fist traditional walk about, meets Orson, gets the poo poo kicked out of him by Davos, then finish with the tournament. Do Danny and Luke even know each other before Danny becomes Iron Fist? As far as cross overs with the MCU go, all of them can at least hold their own considering Hawkeye and Black Widow are doing fine in the MCU. Daredevil is probably the weakest, powers wise, of the Defenders group and he's a ninja with super senses. That's way better than a really good archer and a ex-Soviet assassin. If they have to do a cross over I hope it's just with Dr. Strange though. His Sorcerer Supreme stuff would actually fit in with mystic Kung Fu Cities and magic ninjas. Luke and Jessica are going to have to cram a bit in order to keep up with the Chi magic and Ninja Demons though.
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May 10, 2015 21:08
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tsob posted:As in, no sci-fi cosmic Netflix show? If so, then I'm going to have to disagree. Iron-Fist is the currently scheduled show I'm most looking forward too and hoping that goes full on mystical ninja, seven dimensional cities silliness and if I can get a cosmic Netflix show then I'm even more on board for that, because I love me some sci-fi comics stuff. Mind you, I don't really care about whether they're interconnected or not. I'd assume they're all in the same universe so long as Netflix/Marvel are making them, but that doesn't mean they have to mix the shows and have cameos between Daredevil and the Guardians cartoon, which I'm assuming Netflix will be producing or Starjammers or whatever. Oh that makes sense. I basically knew nothing about Iron Fist before the announcement that it would be one of the Netflix series (actually the OP of this thread) and then I promptly got super into it. I'm only about a quarter of the way through Vol 1 of The Immortal Iron Fist, and halfway through the current (but cancled after 12 issues) Iron Fist: The Living Weapon. I like both quite a bit, and I can see why fans of Immortal Iron Fist thought that The Living Weapon wasn't very good, but I love it. It didn't occur to me that Steel Serpent was just a title, like Iron Fist, but that makes perfect sense. Where I'm at in Immortal Iron Fist is that Davos just showed up, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about :P. I'm mostly worried that they won't have the budget they need to do Iron Fist justice, or that they are waiting to see the reactions to their earlier shows before deciding what tone they want to take. The biggest thing is they are basically setting themselves up for an ever-raising bar of action sequences. Daredevil already had some of the best martial arts on modern television, and Luke Cage can't be hurt by regular things, so you know they are gonna have some really crazy fight scenes for him. Do you think Defenders will feature a new villain, or will it be a villain teamup as well as a hero teamup? edit: Gyges posted:Davos doesn't control the Steel Serpent trademark, which pisses him off almost as much as not being Iron Fist. Mike Colter (Luke Cage) is 38, and Ryan Phillippe (maybe Danny Rand) is 40, so I won't be surprised if their characters have met before their series's take place. I won't be surprised if the tournament is part of a flashback arc, but since I haven't finished that part of Immortal Iron Fist yet (last thing I read, Danny had just left for the tournament) I'm still talking out of my rear end here. But my thinking is this: if Iron Fist follows a similar formulat to Daredevil, we will have flashbacks intercut with thecurrent story, up until the viewer has a complete picture of who the main characters are, and then the conclusion of the current story. For Danny Rand this means flashbacks may include: His parents dying, being trained as a child in K'un Lun, culminating in fighting Shao Lao the Undying, meeting Orson Randall, and fighting in the tournament. It's a lot to cover, but DD covered Stick in one episode, so if they do Orson it could be in a single episode as well. Although to do Orson right, it should really be an episode from his perspective, with his flashbacks inter-cut. Unless they are really going to fudge Danny Rand's v. Ryan Phillippe's age by like 10 years (he does look young), I don't see how the tournament could happen in the present (I am assuming Phillipe will still play adult Danny in flashbacks, that's just how flashbacks work). Snak fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 10, 2015 |
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May 10, 2015 21:09
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Snak posted:Do you think Defenders will feature a new villain, or will it be a villain teamup as well as a hero teamup? The general assumption is that The Defenders will be facing off against The Hand, with Stick, Stone and the child that Stick killed in Daredevil being the start of a setup to that. If so, then presumably each series will have one episode centered around that plot with The Hand, building up the threat.
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May 10, 2015 21:19
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So Iron Fist's comic is basically Mortal Kombat? Hope the show is more like the first movie than the second.
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May 10, 2015 21:24
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tsob posted:The general assumption is that The Defenders will be facing off against The Hand, with Stick, Stone and the child that Stick killed in Daredevil being the start of a setup to that. If so, then presumably each series will have one episode centered around that plot with The Hand, building up the threat. It seemed like they were also tying the Hand into the Heavenly Cities in Daredevil. Davos being a dick in New York while teaming up with The Hand seems pretty likely. Maybe have Luke and Jessica living/working in that city block that the Hand really wanted for their plans in Daredevil?
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May 10, 2015 21:25
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The Sharmat posted:So Iron Fist's comic is basically Mortal Kombat? Yes and it's sooo awesome. So awesome it has gotten me back into comics, somehow.
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May 10, 2015 21:26
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Gyges posted:It seemed like they were also tying the Hand into the Heavenly Cities in Daredevil. Davos being a dick in New York while teaming up with The Hand seems pretty likely. Maybe have Luke and Jessica living/working in that city block that the Hand really wanted for their plans in Daredevil? After everyone was evicted Luke Cage and Jessica Jones move in. The first four episodes is them coping with the guilt of having been party to gentrification. The Purple Man made Jessica do it though.
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May 10, 2015 21:37
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BiggerBoat posted:What are everyone's thoughts about crossing this Netflix style stuff into the Avengers, I'm happy with them being kept separately, solely on the basis that I enjoyed DD more than any MCU film, with Winter Soldier the only one even in the vicinity.
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May 11, 2015 01:10
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RE: crossover with the larger Marvel universe I love that this is the same universe where a dude commits suicide after saying Wilson Fisk's name, but at the same time Hydra is plastering their logo on the walls of their labs and using it as loving letterhead on inter-office memos. No sarcasm, that disparity in tone is fantastic and endlessly amusing.
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May 11, 2015 14:34
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The Sharmat posted:Hydra won't be in any of these shows not just because they don't fit the tone, but because by this point in the MCU Hydra is utterly devastated and will likely take years to reconstitute into a threat. The guy that SHIELD has been chasing showed up in AoU just long enough to show that he got away so there's still that to clean up. Although they still have a finale and might finish him off there.
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May 11, 2015 15:06
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tsob posted:As in, no sci-fi cosmic Netflix show? If so, then I'm going to have to disagree. No, that's fine. I just want them to keep the "cosmic" stuff to a minimum in DD (stuff like aliens and Thor and Loki). The ninja stuff is well and good. Dr. Strange...maybe...but that's as far as I want them to with the crossovers. I think Luke, Danny and Matt in one universe is fine but stretching Daredevil's context/universe to the point where they start dealing with Infinity Gems, Thanos and aliens would ruin the show. There's an element of believability and street level crime to DD. I'm not even sure resurrecting Electra would really work. Hope that made sense.
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May 11, 2015 17:22
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I don't care about what they use in the show, but I would care about how it's done. A good writer would be able to do awesome stuff with whatever material. I just watched the whole thing, it's loving awesome, actually I think it's the first live-action super-hero series that I really really like. I never watched Smallville beyond 5 episodes or so for example. This first season of Daredevil is something else.
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May 11, 2015 17:43
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Serf posted:RE: crossover with the larger Marvel universe That's nothing. Instead consider that while Fisk was bashing a guy's head to literal mash potatoes, Rocket Racoon is somewhere out there with a tiny dancing Groot and riding shirtless on the outside of a spaceship with a missile launcher is totally possible... also it's the same universe in which an alien utopian planet populated with pink humans was saved by a dance off. ED: Don't take this as Guardians hate, it sure isn't. It's just the most insane tone contrast there is in the whole MCU. Aphrodite posted:I'm pretty sure they'll be kept pretty separate like how they already are in the comics. I don't know, Daredevil still has more powers than Hawkeye or Black Widow, and could arguably hold up against Captain America. If any MCU TV character makes the jump to a 3rd Avengers or Civil War cameo, it might be Daredevil: In part from the popularity and ratings, and in part because I do actually think he could hang without being out of place. The ironic part being if any of them cameo'ed on Daredevil they would be out of place. Strange how that works. Maybe it's just me. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 18:25 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 18:15
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Aphrodite posted:I'm pretty sure they'll be kept pretty separate like how they already are in the comics. I'm still not entirely sure why people didn't en-mass convert to Norse paganism in the MCU when they found out that it the mythology was correct and a god was running around helping them beat up aliens. Maybe people have, and they just haven't mentioned it? That's why no one outside Matt and Father Lanthom ever mentions religion?
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May 11, 2015 18:19
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dj_clawson posted:I'm still not entirely sure why people didn't en-mass convert to Norse paganism in the MCU when they found out that it the mythology was correct and a god was running around helping them beat up aliens. Maybe people have, and they just haven't mentioned it? That's why no one outside Matt and Father Lanthom ever mentions religion? They do glance over this a few times in the movies, including Cap's "I believe there's a God, but he sure doesn't dress like that" or something. I think that the narrative in the MCU is that it turns out the Norse Gods were based on something, but aren't actually Gods in the way we view them, nor were they responsible for the creation of our planet or anything: It'd be kind of like everyone in the Stargate universe finding out Ra existed and start worshiping Egyptian Gods even after finding out they were basically just hyper-powerful aliens. Thor's really riding that line right now; there's definitely magic, but they treat it as either crazy technology or just more superpowers that come with his race. Even Agents of Shield tends to treat them as hyper-powerful aliens when they're talked about. Still, you're right, that's more than a lot of religions give and there should totally be norse cults popping up everywhere right along conspiracy theories (that are probably true in this universe) that tie all the nazis obsession with norse stuff to HYDRA.
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May 11, 2015 18:29
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One of the fun things in the 2099 comics was the Thorites, which were just that, a gang of Thor inspired zealots.
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May 11, 2015 18:35
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Blazing Ownager posted:They do glance over this a few times in the movies, including Cap's "I believe there's a God, but he sure doesn't dress like that" or something. I'm not sure everyone got Odin's memo that "we're not gods." There's got to at least be SOME people out there who saw footage of Thor busting heads in New York and said, "All right, we know the answer, let's all set up some runestones or whatever it is we now do." Hell, I would probably think about it. (Steve's also Catholic)
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May 11, 2015 18:38
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More than that, if Thor exists and is magical it means that there is a magical system to be explored, so it's not just a matter of religion, people could be building magical armies.
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May 11, 2015 18:43
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dj_clawson posted:I'm not sure everyone got Odin's memo that "we're not gods." There's got to at least be SOME people out there who saw footage of Thor busting heads in New York and said, "All right, we know the answer, let's all set up some runestones or whatever it is we now do." Hell, I would probably think about it. 
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May 11, 2015 18:59
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According to what we know from Thor, their magic is actually just highly-advanced technology, beyond our understanding. Which is bullshit considering what it can do, but that is the canon explanation. How this relates to Dr. Strange and Iron Fist and the Hand I don't know. I'd love for Thor to see Dr. Strange cast a spell and just go "okay yeah that's magic."
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May 11, 2015 18:59
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